Do all sports favor the big kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Soccer in the USA is so UMC kids don't get slapped around by the colored kids in basketball and football.

The thing about the contact laws in soccer 50/50 balls is they just don't work well when contact isn't shoulder to shoulder. When there is a difference in height the taller player isn't allowed to drop their shoulders so it's more like elbow to head or shoulders to ribs. So soccer players tend towards average height more than you would expect. You don't want to be the odd one out on a soccer squad and every challenge is like that. Except in the US they run slightly shorter than other places.

No. Look at the European leagues. 75-85% of the field player roster is above average in height. Look at the NCAA women’s soccer roster - the same.

Contract in soccer is about getting hands or an arm on the other player. A taller play can shield the ball from a short player, has longer/arms, lower the shoulder and lean on the smaller player. This really pays off after the 70 minute mark.

I don't disagree. My assertion is that this is why American soccer doesn't do well. It's an advantage when you can field a squad that is on average pretty tall, but when you have a squad that is mostly average or even below average, it's just kind of awkward to have an odd duck six or more inches taller than your 5'8" squad... It's not the big matches, just day to day challenges amongst 20 or so players with shots to the ribs no red cards with those dirty short players in practice. Plus, you're a six two, three or four ideal athlete with elite speed might as well be a wide receiver, tight end or something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Again, look at professional athlete average heights and that will tell you how college and high school coaches are biased.

According to Google, the sports below are essentially the only pro sports where the average height for men and women is less than 5'10" and 5'8", respectively:

Marathoners
Gymnasts (many argue that the sport itself is partially responsible for keeping gymnasts small and that many would have grown taller if they had not started the sport so young)
Ski Jumpers
Lightweight to lower bands of Middle Weight for basically any sport specifically built around weight: boxing, UFC, wrestling, et al (i.e., people are mentioning wrestling here, but you won't find many short wrestlers at heaviest weight classes)
Female ice skaters...average for men is 5'10"

Are male singles figure skaters tall? I would think that the average for men is influenced by the presence of male pairs skaters, who definitely need to be relatively big (to lift their partners).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So only team sport is baseball.

As the father of a small baseball player, I'll say it is coach dependent. If you have some meathead infantry dad coaching, the will overlook your son. If you have an intelligent analytical dad who recognizes that your 5 ft 7, 135 pound junior stole twice the bases anyone lese did, and can legit switch hit, his value will be recognized.

Sadly too many men are just too stupid to focus on skill and results over size.

Woodson had a 6 ft4 left handed first basemen maybe 8 years ago who couldn't catch a volleyball if it was soft tossed to him by his grandpa. But he looked the part, so there he was put.

And every single that year was a double or a triple.

This perspective is also annoying. Big kids grow frequently. My 10yo daughter is going to be taller than your son pretty soon. She does really well and has the best shot on her team, but some days it's just not there, it's like I have to start over from scratch retraining those growing limbs.

Some coaches/sports feel very strongly kids should have mastered the skills if they haven't by the time they are five they aren't ever going to swimming is especially annoying. It's sad you can look at the club so many girls aren't going to pass five ft. But there they are in the Olympic training USA Swimming. The coaches just milking their parents bank accounts.

Then in basketball we have all these gungho parents with the shortest daughters, coaching everyone. Isn't that the weirdest thing, like why do tall kids have to put up with all that mediocre coaching from short kids parents. Give the ball to little Susie.

I'm all for encouraging athletes in short stature. I just don't think this perspective that a kid needs to be skilled early on is setting smaller players up for success. Sounds like some of these coaches may have done you a favor.

Someone forgot to mention cricket. Now there is a money sport for short players. I don't 🪏 it, but I encourage those who do.

Sorry, but I'd take a 5 ft 7 inch son any day of the week over some beasty 6ft 2 girl as a daughter. Your poor daughter.

Oh, you want to pick on girls do ya. No wonder you got kicked out of your club. Sawed off ego and all.

I bet you never had to special order pants tough stuff. Upset because there are somethings that just aren't your thing.

Aged out, silly. Not kicked out. And he played in college. Currently in his last year of law school while your daughter is trying to find size 46 pantsuits. LOL.

For some bottom of the barrel D3 school likely? I am sure he would love to find a 6’2” volleyball player so his own kid doesn’t suffer the same fate as him.

And I am sure he and his friends would relentlessly mock her. Literally no man wants to date a linebacker.

Volleyball players aren’t thick…in terms of athletes who become models, it produces the most by far.

I doubt he will be mocked if he manages to land a model girlfriend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Soccer in the USA is so UMC kids don't get slapped around by the colored kids in basketball and football.

The thing about the contact laws in soccer 50/50 balls is they just don't work well when contact isn't shoulder to shoulder. When there is a difference in height the taller player isn't allowed to drop their shoulders so it's more like elbow to head or shoulders to ribs. So soccer players tend towards average height more than you would expect. You don't want to be the odd one out on a soccer squad and every challenge is like that. Except in the US they run slightly shorter than other places.

No. Look at the European leagues. 75-85% of the field player roster is above average in height. Look at the NCAA women’s soccer roster - the same.

Contract in soccer is about getting hands or an arm on the other player. A taller play can shield the ball from a short player, has longer/arms, lower the shoulder and lean on the smaller player. This really pays off after the 70 minute mark.

I don't disagree. My assertion is that this is why American soccer doesn't do well. It's an advantage when you can field a squad that is on average pretty tall, but when you have a squad that is mostly average or even below average, it's just kind of awkward to have an odd duck six or more inches taller than your 5'8" squad... It's not the big matches, just day to day challenges amongst 20 or so players with shots to the ribs no red cards with those dirty short players in practice. Plus, you're a six two, three or four ideal athlete with elite speed might as well be a wide receiver, tight end or something.

US Men’s soccer team average height is 6’0”. It’s not half 6’4” and half 5’8”…very few 5’8” players.

[Anonymous]

What in the world is wrong with adults who mock children's heights (tall girls and short boys)?! Seriously, get a grip and do some self-reflection on why you're acting like this!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Soccer in the USA is so UMC kids don't get slapped around by the colored kids in basketball and football.

The thing about the contact laws in soccer 50/50 balls is they just don't work well when contact isn't shoulder to shoulder. When there is a difference in height the taller player isn't allowed to drop their shoulders so it's more like elbow to head or shoulders to ribs. So soccer players tend towards average height more than you would expect. You don't want to be the odd one out on a soccer squad and every challenge is like that. Except in the US they run slightly shorter than other places.

No. Look at the European leagues. 75-85% of the field player roster is above average in height. Look at the NCAA women’s soccer roster - the same.

Contract in soccer is about getting hands or an arm on the other player. A taller play can shield the ball from a short player, has longer/arms, lower the shoulder and lean on the smaller player. This really pays off after the 70 minute mark.

I don't disagree. My assertion is that this is why American soccer doesn't do well. It's an advantage when you can field a squad that is on average pretty tall, but when you have a squad that is mostly average or even below average, it's just kind of awkward to have an odd duck six or more inches taller than your 5'8" squad... It's not the big matches, just day to day challenges amongst 20 or so players with shots to the ribs no red cards with those dirty short players in practice. Plus, you're a six two, three or four ideal athlete with elite speed might as well be a wide receiver, tight end or something.

US Men’s soccer team average height is 6’0”. It’s not half 6’4” and half 5’8”…very few 5’8” players.

Yes, that is part of the point. The teams tend to be very homogenous in height not a distribution, and compared to other countries which have a similar distribution in heights. We field a team that is several inches shorter:

Average height of Germans and Americans nominally different, but

https://www.espn.com/soccer/team/squad/_/id/481/germany

Germany is several inches taller: https://fishenal.github.io/worldCup2022Data/docs/sortByAvHeight.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heights_distribution

Germany 175.4 cm (5 ft 9 in) 162.8 cm (5 ft 4 in) 1.08 18–79 (N= m/f:19,768[vague]) —N/a 2007 [5]
Switzerland 175.4 cm (5 ft 9 in) 164 cm (5 ft 4+1⁄2 in) 1.07 20–74 Self-reported 1987–1994 [103]
United States 175.3 cm (5 ft 9 in) 161.3 cm (5 ft 3+1⁄2 in) 1.09 All Americans, 20+ (N= m:5,092 f:5,510) Measured 2015–2018 [113]
Malta 175.2 cm (5 ft 9 in) 165.3 cm (5 ft 5 in) 1.06 25–34 Self-reported[vague] 2003 [71]
Ukraine 175 cm (5 ft 9 in) 164 cm (5 ft 4+1⁄2 in) 1.07 18+ Measured[vague] 2020 [111

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe super early on, but once they get older, no. Soccer seems like a weird example to me. Most of the good soccer players I know at the high school level are average size, strong, and agile.

Agree completely. Very rare to find an above average height kid in soccer in high school on top teams. If there is one, they are likely a top recruit because you typically don’t get the agility and coordination needed with height on top soccer teams.

For soccer in the US, it's usually that, taller athletic kids go into other sports. Who wants to be a goalie when they can play basketball or be a kicker on a football team, pitcher in baseball. etc Soccer is one of those sports where there are places on the team for very tall kids, but they all kind of suck it it's not revered like in Europe or South America. You can be target man have all the short kids kick the ball at your head or a goalie, dive in the mud while short kids kick at you with their cleats. It's just not very much fun. Compare that with being QB. I don't think anyone would sign up to be QB have everyone in league want to sack you, unless you got to be the star of the team. IMO that is a big reason USA Soccer is so limited when it comes to the world cup. Like they go up against the Dutch or English, and you just have the left over from other sports, no big forwards, weak goalies, slow wings. They have some really good skills players, just missing some things that make a well rounded soccer team. The people in USA Soccer seem to want to keep it that way.

I think there is probably some truth to the first part of this. At our large suburban HS, the boys soccer players are definitely overall smaller/slighter than the boys who play football, basketball, or baseball. Probably self selecting. Making any of the teams (football excluded) is very competitive. Not a lot of multi sport athletes in our high school. Also, most of the students played soccer at some point during their youth years. It does seem that the larger boys end up focusing on other sports, rather than soccer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe super early on, but once they get older, no. Soccer seems like a weird example to me. Most of the good soccer players I know at the high school level are average size, strong, and agile.

Agree completely. Very rare to find an above average height kid in soccer in high school on top teams. If there is one, they are likely a top recruit because you typically don’t get the agility and coordination needed with height on top soccer teams.

For soccer in the US, it's usually that, taller athletic kids go into other sports. Who wants to be a goalie when they can play basketball or be a kicker on a football team, pitcher in baseball. etc Soccer is one of those sports where there are places on the team for very tall kids, but they all kind of suck it it's not revered like in Europe or South America. You can be target man have all the short kids kick the ball at your head or a goalie, dive in the mud while short kids kick at you with their cleats. It's just not very much fun. Compare that with being QB. I don't think anyone would sign up to be QB have everyone in league want to sack you, unless you got to be the star of the team. IMO that is a big reason USA Soccer is so limited when it comes to the world cup. Like they go up against the Dutch or English, and you just have the left over from other sports, no big forwards, weak goalies, slow wings. They have some really good skills players, just missing some things that make a well rounded soccer team. The people in USA Soccer seem to want to keep it that way.

I think there is probably some truth to the first part of this. At our large suburban HS, the boys soccer players are definitely overall smaller/slighter than the boys who play football, basketball, or baseball. Probably self selecting. Making any of the teams (football excluded) is very competitive. Not a lot of multi sport athletes in our high school. Also, most of the students played soccer at some point during their youth years. It does seem that the larger boys end up focusing on other sports, rather than soccer.

Also, soccer is the one US sport where the best players aren’t allowed to play for their HS teams…whereas the other sports all respect the HS season.

If the best football, baseball and basketball players weren’t allowed to play for their HS teams, all those teams would be shorter on average.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe super early on, but once they get older, no. Soccer seems like a weird example to me. Most of the good soccer players I know at the high school level are average size, strong, and agile.

Agree completely. Very rare to find an above average height kid in soccer in high school on top teams. If there is one, they are likely a top recruit because you typically don’t get the agility and coordination needed with height on top soccer teams.

For soccer in the US, it's usually that, taller athletic kids go into other sports. Who wants to be a goalie when they can play basketball or be a kicker on a football team, pitcher in baseball. etc Soccer is one of those sports where there are places on the team for very tall kids, but they all kind of suck it it's not revered like in Europe or South America. You can be target man have all the short kids kick the ball at your head or a goalie, dive in the mud while short kids kick at you with their cleats. It's just not very much fun. Compare that with being QB. I don't think anyone would sign up to be QB have everyone in league want to sack you, unless you got to be the star of the team. IMO that is a big reason USA Soccer is so limited when it comes to the world cup. Like they go up against the Dutch or English, and you just have the left over from other sports, no big forwards, weak goalies, slow wings. They have some really good skills players, just missing some things that make a well rounded soccer team. The people in USA Soccer seem to want to keep it that way.

I think there is probably some truth to the first part of this. At our large suburban HS, the boys soccer players are definitely overall smaller/slighter than the boys who play football, basketball, or baseball. Probably self selecting. Making any of the teams (football excluded) is very competitive. Not a lot of multi sport athletes in our high school. Also, most of the students played soccer at some point during their youth years. It does seem that the larger boys end up focusing on other sports, rather than soccer.

Also, soccer is the one US sport where the best players aren’t allowed to play for their HS teams…whereas the other sports all respect the HS season.

If the best football, baseball and basketball players weren’t allowed to play for their HS teams, all those teams would be shorter on average.

That is the other part. football, baseball and basketball are competitive for poor kids because they are school sports, but soccer in the US tends to be an "elite" and expensive sport. Short players do really well when they can buy their way into clubs. Well at least the rich short players.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe super early on, but once they get older, no. Soccer seems like a weird example to me. Most of the good soccer players I know at the high school level are average size, strong, and agile.

Agree completely. Very rare to find an above average height kid in soccer in high school on top teams. If there is one, they are likely a top recruit because you typically don’t get the agility and coordination needed with height on top soccer teams.

For soccer in the US, it's usually that, taller athletic kids go into other sports. Who wants to be a goalie when they can play basketball or be a kicker on a football team, pitcher in baseball. etc Soccer is one of those sports where there are places on the team for very tall kids, but they all kind of suck it it's not revered like in Europe or South America. You can be target man have all the short kids kick the ball at your head or a goalie, dive in the mud while short kids kick at you with their cleats. It's just not very much fun. Compare that with being QB. I don't think anyone would sign up to be QB have everyone in league want to sack you, unless you got to be the star of the team. IMO that is a big reason USA Soccer is so limited when it comes to the world cup. Like they go up against the Dutch or English, and you just have the left over from other sports, no big forwards, weak goalies, slow wings. They have some really good skills players, just missing some things that make a well rounded soccer team. The people in USA Soccer seem to want to keep it that way.

I think there is probably some truth to the first part of this. At our large suburban HS, the boys soccer players are definitely overall smaller/slighter than the boys who play football, basketball, or baseball. Probably self selecting. Making any of the teams (football excluded) is very competitive. Not a lot of multi sport athletes in our high school. Also, most of the students played soccer at some point during their youth years. It does seem that the larger boys end up focusing on other sports, rather than soccer.

Also, soccer is the one US sport where the best players aren’t allowed to play for their HS teams…whereas the other sports all respect the HS season.

If the best football, baseball and basketball players weren’t allowed to play for their HS teams, all those teams would be shorter on average.

That is the other part. football, baseball and basketball are competitive for poor kids because they are school sports, but soccer in the US tends to be an "elite" and expensive sport. Short players do really well when they can buy their way into clubs. Well at least the rich short players.

Football yes…but not for basketball and baseball. Most of the AA top basketball players these days are actually from UMC households.

Even though the club teams shut down for HS seasons, they are still important for college and NBA/MLB recruiting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Swimming (college recruiting) also favors tall and of course long limbs.

Swim recruiting is about times. While it is true that being taller is often an advantage and may lead to faster times, college coaches are not recruiting based on height or limb length - they are recruiting based on times (and demonstrated trajectory).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swimming (college recruiting) also favors tall and of course long limbs.

Swim recruiting is about times. While it is true that being taller is often an advantage and may lead to faster times, college coaches are not recruiting based on height or limb length - they are recruiting based on times (and demonstrated trajectory).

Nah has was eloquently exposed in the follow ups to the Varsity Blues sting most of the non-money sports filter started finding ways to filter kids at much younger ages so that poor kids don't have a chance to get times.

https://time.com/6100715/varsity-blues-trial-college-sports/

They used to be able to reliably cheat, even if they didn't have the times or whatever the coaches would just take a kick back, but now they have to have the times so they make it so that poor families can't get their kids into the programs at all.

[Anonymous]

Crew also favors tall kids, and it's deeply weird to me that a sport that crams 9 kids in a small boat would want those kids to be tall. Go figure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, look at professional athlete average heights and that will tell you how college and high school coaches are biased.

According to Google, the sports below are essentially the only pro sports where the average height for men and women is less than 5'10" and 5'8", respectively:

Marathoners
Gymnasts (many argue that the sport itself is partially responsible for keeping gymnasts small and that many would have grown taller if they had not started the sport so young)
Ski Jumpers
Lightweight to lower bands of Middle Weight for basically any sport specifically built around weight: boxing, UFC, wrestling, et al (i.e., people are mentioning wrestling here, but you won't find many short wrestlers at heaviest weight classes)
Female ice skaters...average for men is 5'10"

Are male singles figure skaters tall? I would think that the average for men is influenced by the presence of male pairs skaters, who definitely need to be relatively big (to lift their partners).

Nathan Chen - 5'6. Ilia Malinin - 5'9. Evan Lysacek - 6'2. They are all lean and powerful - very good power to weight ratio. Strong but not broad upper budder. Body types of a ballet dancer or cyclist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Crew also favors tall kids, and it's deeply weird to me that a sport that crams 9 kids in a small boat would want those kids to be tall. Go figure.

It's all about the physics of levers, just like long limbs help pitchers in baseball/softball. You want that leg drive to be as long and explosive as possible.

Except for the coxswains, then you're looking to keep it under that min weight and put a few sandbags in so you hit it exactly. But of course coxing is a skill, not really an athletic endeavor.

-former coxswain