Middlebury Suffering with larger class sizes and enrollment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds about right. They need the money, bad.

Ah, the Middlebury troll is back.

Middlebury has zero financial problems, has never had any and likely never will. They are in the top 50 or so schools in the country in terms of endowment (larger than U Miami for example) with more resources per student than schools such as Cornell, Brown, Northwestern, Chicago.

Middlebury has had a small nagging deficit for awhile because Laurie Patton preferred to just ignore it. Baucomb quickly made the right decision on MIIS and I suspect that it will quickly disappear. Even if it didn't the actual budget effect is small kind of like their $1.6B endowment functioning more like a $1.4B endowment. Middlebury also draws conservatively from their endowment, taking a full point less (4.5-5.0%) than peer schools like Colby for example.

Interesting post, but are you sure that Middlebury College has a larger EPS (endowment per student) than Northwestern University ?

My figures are from the NACUBO report on endowments published in 2023; it shows Northwestern with the 31st highest EPS and Middlebury farther down the list at #60. Do you have more recent figures ? TIA

https://insidehighered.com/opinion/columns/learning-innovation/2023/09/08/endowments-full-time-equivalent-student

Many schools want to avoid the endowment tax so, if I recall correctly, it is good from this perspective to be below $500,000 per full-time student endowment.

I do, it depends on the year and the accounting method. The report doesn't jive with Middlebury's own reports or other reports which pegs Northwestern's endowment at about 532K per student. The real take away is that they are all very wealthy schools and the $8M deficit (it grew the one year to about $14 coming out of Covid and with ongoing MIIS issues being over $8M of it) is a non event in Middlebury finances except for the fact that it creates conversations like this inane thread. There is no financial crisis except in the mind of the troll who has an abnormal obsession with Middlebury.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds about right. They need the money, bad.

Ah, the Middlebury troll is back.

Middlebury has zero financial problems, has never had any and likely never will. They are in the top 50 or so schools in the country in terms of endowment (larger than U Miami for example) with more resources per student than schools such as Cornell, Brown, Northwestern, Chicago.

Middlebury has had a small nagging deficit for awhile because Laurie Patton preferred to just ignore it. Baucomb quickly made the right decision on MIIS and I suspect that it will quickly disappear. Even if it didn't the actual budget effect is small kind of like their $1.6B endowment functioning more like a $1.4B endowment. Middlebury also draws conservatively from their endowment, taking a full point less (4.5-5.0%) than peer schools like Colby for example.

It factually has a deficit that president baucom is working to fix. As an alum, it’s tiring seeing threads delude themselves that there’s anything but a deficit.

+1, I love midd. I donate to Midd as a proud parent, but the institution missed out on a decade and a half of financial glory that peer lacs have reached (Swat, Pomona, Williams, and Amherst all passing the three billion dollar endowment mark). It has also made poor enrollment decisions that have helped erode campus culture. I have a DS at Midd and a DD at Williams, and a nephew at Pomona-the differences in resources between midd and the latter two are night and day. It’s a wonderful school but you have to face reality

You had me until this: "the differences in resources between midd and the latter two are night and day."

What differences are night and day?

Sure, 1) conference and research funding is more abundant. Williams particularly has nearly non-exhaustive research funding and apparently Pomona's student government recently voted to potentially reduce the amount per student, because they've never run out of the fund. 2) Both schools deal less with faculty retention issues than Middlebury and they attract more faculty 3) less staff cuts/issues than Middlebury. 4) International experiences and connections with Oxbridge, which Middlebury lacks. You can check the Humanities program but

Middlebury-CMRS students are Associate Members of Keble College, but are not enrolled at the University of Oxford, and neither Keble College nor the University of Oxford have any responsibility for academic, pastoral, accommodation or disciplinary matters relating to M-CMRS. Students on the program are housed in St Michael’s Hall, in Oxford city center.

and the college doesn't have the fellowship funding for oxbridge study like Williams and Pomona 5) More campus events from more notable scholars including Bill Nye for Parents weekend, Oren Case, Ruha Benjamin, Carl Phillips, Kwame Appiah, Siddhartha Mukherjee, Lonnie G. Bunch III, Sal Khan, and other big speakers all have passed by, while Midd tends to have more academics. 6) Midd is currently having a class size issue, while Williams can maintain a massive tutorials program 7) Both Williams and Pomona have Nobel prize alum. Midd doesn't 8) these exceptional faculty resources lead to better outcomes for graduate school and professional school.

Both Williams and Middlebury have issues with faculty recruitment and retention, due primarily to their rural locations and lack of affordable housing and childcare services. Lack of spousal job opportunities also impacts both colleges. With its suburban location, Pomona deals less with these issues, although a high cost of living is in play.

Williams also isn't immune to budget cuts. Just two years ago, they asked all department heads to identify 15% budget cuts from their FY24 budgets due to a poor endowment performance the prior year.

Middlebury is unmatched in its global presence, with 75 programs in 40 countries. You mention Middlebury's affiliation with Keble College at Oxford, but didn't mention the Lincoln College Visiting Student Program. Students at the Williams-Exeter Program are similarly visiting, non-matriculated Oxford students, although they are fully integrated into Exeter's social and academic circles. And around 25 students participate per year. More than 50 Middlebury students study at Oxford every year. To my knowledge, Pomona doesn't have any affiliation with Oxford. They do have the Program at Jesus College, Cambridge, which students from any of the Claremont Colleges can join.

You mention more campus events from more notable scholars--this is entirely subjective. The names you mention are not necessarily well known outside academic circles. And if you want to consider Bill Nye the Science Guy as a real catch, good for you. Middlebury attracts plenty of accomplished guest speakers.

Williams maintains a massive tutorial program? As I understand it, the college offers 65ish tutorials per year, each with two students. So a total of ~130 students take a tutorial every year. The college says that just over half of Williams students take a tutorial during their time at the college. If "night and day" hinges on your opportunity to take one class while you're in college (and half don't even take advantage of it), so be it.

How does having a Nobel Prize-winning alum impact the current student experience? Bragging rights, okay. But what's the impact on everyday life?

Middlebury does just fine with grad school placement compared to peers.

Listen--Williams and Pomona are wealthier schools--no doubt about that. But saying this added wealth makes a "night and day" difference concerning the overall academic experience is ludicrous and shows bias on your part.

There's a poster on this site who scours news outlets, Middlebury's website, and the college paper for any negative stories and creates threads about them. I'm not certain what their motivation is, but I don't see them doing the same for other SLACs.

Just wanted to add that previous poster said Oxbridge, not Oxford, and that the Claremont colleges is another benefit of itself. Also tutorial is a serious advantage and you failed to mention that most of the students who do tutorial do more than one, so it clearly is a transformative experience. About 1/2 of students study abroad at each of these schools- you wouldn’t call study abroad a useless resource just because not everyone uses it and the same is true of tutorials.

PP mentions both Oxford and Cambridge in their response.

Hey can you actually read? Oxbridge is both. They made the point that Pomona doesn’t have an Oxford study abroad but that was never pp point (nor is it true, but that’s another discussion).

Can you read? Oxbridge is Oxford and Cambridge. PP mentioned programs at both. Please do tell us all about Pomona's program at Oxford (which used to exist but was cut in 2012).

[Anonymous]

I remember taking a ~9 person class in college. It was on Faulkner’s novels. Each class one person was assigned to write a paper. When it was your turn, you submitted your paper to the entire class, 72 hours before the class. Everyone read your paper, and in the class you had to defend your paper in front of the class and the professor. It was brutally hard.

I learned a ton in that environment and Faulkner was just the vehicle. I’m a lawyer now and was developing skills back then that are invaluable to me today. That class with worth every penny it cost me and my family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds about right. They need the money, bad.

Ah, the Middlebury troll is back.

Middlebury has zero financial problems, has never had any and likely never will. They are in the top 50 or so schools in the country in terms of endowment (larger than U Miami for example) with more resources per student than schools such as Cornell, Brown, Northwestern, Chicago.

Middlebury has had a small nagging deficit for awhile because Laurie Patton preferred to just ignore it. Baucomb quickly made the right decision on MIIS and I suspect that it will quickly disappear. Even if it didn't the actual budget effect is small kind of like their $1.6B endowment functioning more like a $1.4B endowment. Middlebury also draws conservatively from their endowment, taking a full point less (4.5-5.0%) than peer schools like Colby for example.

Interesting post, but are you sure that Middlebury College has a larger EPS (endowment per student) than Northwestern University ?

My figures are from the NACUBO report on endowments published in 2023; it shows Northwestern with the 31st highest EPS and Middlebury farther down the list at #60. Do you have more recent figures ? TIA

https://insidehighered.com/opinion/columns/learning-innovation/2023/09/08/endowments-full-time-equivalent-student

Many schools want to avoid the endowment tax so, if I recall correctly, it is good from this perspective to be below $500,000 per full-time student endowment.

I do, it depends on the year and the accounting method. The report doesn't jive with Middlebury's own reports or other reports which pegs Northwestern's endowment at about 532K per student. The real take away is that they are all very wealthy schools and the $8M deficit (it grew the one year to about $14 coming out of Covid and with ongoing MIIS issues being over $8M of it) is a non event in Middlebury finances except for the fact that it creates conversations like this inane thread. There is no financial crisis except in the mind of the troll who has an abnormal obsession with Middlebury.

This is 100% true if you ignore the truth and ignore the drain that’s happening to campus life due to change in finances! I get that you don’t like facing uncomfortable truths, but I really don’t see how you can think the deficit doesn’t matter when there are real financial issues that are witnessed and continue to cause issues for student programs and academic departments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds about right. They need the money, bad.

Ah, the Middlebury troll is back.

Middlebury has zero financial problems, has never had any and likely never will. They are in the top 50 or so schools in the country in terms of endowment (larger than U Miami for example) with more resources per student than schools such as Cornell, Brown, Northwestern, Chicago.

Middlebury has had a small nagging deficit for awhile because Laurie Patton preferred to just ignore it. Baucomb quickly made the right decision on MIIS and I suspect that it will quickly disappear. Even if it didn't the actual budget effect is small kind of like their $1.6B endowment functioning more like a $1.4B endowment. Middlebury also draws conservatively from their endowment, taking a full point less (4.5-5.0%) than peer schools like Colby for example.

It factually has a deficit that president Baucom is working to fix. As an alum, it’s tiring seeing threads delude themselves that there’s anything but a deficit.

Nobody said it wasn't a deficit but it is a meaningless one except for being a bit embarrassing. As to delusion, the only delusion here is you pretending to be a Middlebury Alum.

So meaningless the president immediately needed to address it and then chose to shut down MIIS? This is the concern of much of MAA, so I’m not sure why you’re brushing it off as if it hasn’t hemorrhaged the institution.

Look, we've went thorough this with you before.

Baucomb didn't need to address anything regarding the deficit because it is noise no matter how much you blither. Their investment grade credit rating shows exactly how much anyone cared about the deficit.

Baucomb did need to address MIIS because it was the cause of the deficits and has been under discussion among the Faculty from the day it was acquired. MIIS was acquired against the wishes of the Faculty and they have never been quiet about their feelings that it detracted from Middlebury's core mission. They were right and it was a failing on the part of Laurie Patton to not have addressed the situation sooner. The new president is addressing this not because it is any real financial burden but rather it is an issue that needs addressing and he likely doesn't want the noise during his tenure.

He addressed both. It's clear you don't actually engage with the MAA and are overly defensive about a truth. Middlebury is a great institution, but it isn't perfect.

He mentioned the deficit as any thinking being would.

Basically you are just a fu*king idiot. You have been batted around before and the result will be the same this time. I'll let others step in because we don't put up with your nonsense.

Grandma, get off the internet and chill it before you get IP banned. This is really embarrassing that a grown adult can’t handle their emotions on an online forum. I pray for your kids, and if I could alert CPS, I would. It’s obvious you have no point and just want to scream to scream. As expected, you conceded that he addressed the deficit- something you denied but now want to call me captain obvious, because you have no actual point.

Sure Karen...if it makes you feel better. Nobody cares that your kid didn't get in. Why don't you let it go and move on?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds about right. They need the money, bad.

Ah, the Middlebury troll is back.

Middlebury has zero financial problems, has never had any and likely never will. They are in the top 50 or so schools in the country in terms of endowment (larger than U Miami for example) with more resources per student than schools such as Cornell, Brown, Northwestern, Chicago.

Middlebury has had a small nagging deficit for awhile because Laurie Patton preferred to just ignore it. Baucomb quickly made the right decision on MIIS and I suspect that it will quickly disappear. Even if it didn't the actual budget effect is small kind of like their $1.6B endowment functioning more like a $1.4B endowment. Middlebury also draws conservatively from their endowment, taking a full point less (4.5-5.0%) than peer schools like Colby for example.

It factually has a deficit that president baucom is working to fix. As an alum, it’s tiring seeing threads delude themselves that there’s anything but a deficit.

+1, I love midd. I donate to Midd as a proud parent, but the institution missed out on a decade and a half of financial glory that peer lacs have reached (Swat, Pomona, Williams, and Amherst all passing the three billion dollar endowment mark). It has also made poor enrollment decisions that have helped erode campus culture. I have a DS at Midd and a DD at Williams, and a nephew at Pomona-the differences in resources between midd and the latter two are night and day. It’s a wonderful school but you have to face reality

You had me until this: "the differences in resources between midd and the latter two are night and day."

What differences are night and day?

Sure, 1) conference and research funding is more abundant. Williams particularly has nearly non-exhaustive research funding and apparently Pomona's student government recently voted to potentially reduce the amount per student, because they've never run out of the fund. 2) Both schools deal less with faculty retention issues than Middlebury and they attract more faculty 3) less staff cuts/issues than Middlebury. 4) International experiences and connections with Oxbridge, which Middlebury lacks. You can check the Humanities program but

Middlebury-CMRS students are Associate Members of Keble College, but are not enrolled at the University of Oxford, and neither Keble College nor the University of Oxford have any responsibility for academic, pastoral, accommodation or disciplinary matters relating to M-CMRS. Students on the program are housed in St Michael’s Hall, in Oxford city center.

and the college doesn't have the fellowship funding for oxbridge study like Williams and Pomona 5) More campus events from more notable scholars including Bill Nye for Parents weekend, Oren Case, Ruha Benjamin, Carl Phillips, Kwame Appiah, Siddhartha Mukherjee, Lonnie G. Bunch III, Sal Khan, and other big speakers all have passed by, while Midd tends to have more academics. 6) Midd is currently having a class size issue, while Williams can maintain a massive tutorials program 7) Both Williams and Pomona have Nobel prize alum. Midd doesn't 8) these exceptional faculty resources lead to better outcomes for graduate school and professional school.

Both Williams and Middlebury have issues with faculty recruitment and retention, due primarily to their rural locations and lack of affordable housing and childcare services. Lack of spousal job opportunities also impacts both colleges. With its suburban location, Pomona deals less with these issues, although a high cost of living is in play.

Williams also isn't immune to budget cuts. Just two years ago, they asked all department heads to identify 15% budget cuts from their FY24 budgets due to a poor endowment performance the prior year.

Middlebury is unmatched in its global presence, with 75 programs in 40 countries. You mention Middlebury's affiliation with Keble College at Oxford, but didn't mention the Lincoln College Visiting Student Program. Students at the Williams-Exeter Program are similarly visiting, non-matriculated Oxford students, although they are fully integrated into Exeter's social and academic circles. And around 25 students participate per year. More than 50 Middlebury students study at Oxford every year. To my knowledge, Pomona doesn't have any affiliation with Oxford. They do have the Program at Jesus College, Cambridge, which students from any of the Claremont Colleges can join.

You mention more campus events from more notable scholars--this is entirely subjective. The names you mention are not necessarily well known outside academic circles. And if you want to consider Bill Nye the Science Guy as a real catch, good for you. Middlebury attracts plenty of accomplished guest speakers.

Williams maintains a massive tutorial program? As I understand it, the college offers 65ish tutorials per year, each with two students. So a total of ~130 students take a tutorial every year. The college says that just over half of Williams students take a tutorial during their time at the college. If "night and day" hinges on your opportunity to take one class while you're in college (and half don't even take advantage of it), so be it.

How does having a Nobel Prize-winning alum impact the current student experience? Bragging rights, okay. But what's the impact on everyday life?

Middlebury does just fine with grad school placement compared to peers.

Listen--Williams and Pomona are wealthier schools--no doubt about that. But saying this added wealth makes a "night and day" difference concerning the overall academic experience is ludicrous and shows bias on your part.

There's a poster on this site who scours news outlets, Middlebury's website, and the college paper for any negative stories and creates threads about them. I'm not certain what their motivation is, but I don't see them doing the same for other SLACs.

Just wanted to add that previous poster said Oxbridge, not Oxford, and that the Claremont colleges is another benefit of itself. Also tutorial is a serious advantage and you failed to mention that most of the students who do tutorial do more than one, so it clearly is a transformative experience. About 1/2 of students study abroad at each of these schools- you wouldn’t call study abroad a useless resource just because not everyone uses it and the same is true of tutorials.

PP mentions both Oxford and Cambridge in their response.

Hey can you actually read? Oxbridge is both. They made the point that Pomona doesn’t have an Oxford study abroad but that was never pp point (nor is it true, but that’s another discussion).

Can you read? Oxbridge is Oxford and Cambridge. PP mentioned programs at both. Please do tell us all about Pomona's program at Oxford (which used to exist but was cut in 2012).
Ah the classic “I’m wrong so let me copy exactly what you said and try to yell louder.” You can take up IFSA oxford like any other student. You can also do CMC’s Oxford program.can you make a point this time instead of copying mine?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds about right. They need the money, bad.

Ah, the Middlebury troll is back.

Middlebury has zero financial problems, has never had any and likely never will. They are in the top 50 or so schools in the country in terms of endowment (larger than U Miami for example) with more resources per student than schools such as Cornell, Brown, Northwestern, Chicago.

Middlebury has had a small nagging deficit for awhile because Laurie Patton preferred to just ignore it. Baucomb quickly made the right decision on MIIS and I suspect that it will quickly disappear. Even if it didn't the actual budget effect is small kind of like their $1.6B endowment functioning more like a $1.4B endowment. Middlebury also draws conservatively from their endowment, taking a full point less (4.5-5.0%) than peer schools like Colby for example.

It factually has a deficit that president Baucom is working to fix. As an alum, it’s tiring seeing threads delude themselves that there’s anything but a deficit.

Nobody said it wasn't a deficit but it is a meaningless one except for being a bit embarrassing. As to delusion, the only delusion here is you pretending to be a Middlebury Alum.

So meaningless the president immediately needed to address it and then chose to shut down MIIS? This is the concern of much of MAA, so I’m not sure why you’re brushing it off as if it hasn’t hemorrhaged the institution.

Look, we've went thorough this with you before.

Baucomb didn't need to address anything regarding the deficit because it is noise no matter how much you blither. Their investment grade credit rating shows exactly how much anyone cared about the deficit.

Baucomb did need to address MIIS because it was the cause of the deficits and has been under discussion among the Faculty from the day it was acquired. MIIS was acquired against the wishes of the Faculty and they have never been quiet about their feelings that it detracted from Middlebury's core mission. They were right and it was a failing on the part of Laurie Patton to not have addressed the situation sooner. The new president is addressing this not because it is any real financial burden but rather it is an issue that needs addressing and he likely doesn't want the noise during his tenure.

He addressed both. It's clear you don't actually engage with the MAA and are overly defensive about a truth. Middlebury is a great institution, but it isn't perfect.

He mentioned the deficit as any thinking being would.

Basically you are just a fu*king idiot. You have been batted around before and the result will be the same this time. I'll let others step in because we don't put up with your nonsense.

Grandma, get off the internet and chill it before you get IP banned. This is really embarrassing that a grown adult can’t handle their emotions on an online forum. I pray for your kids, and if I could alert CPS, I would. It’s obvious you have no point and just want to scream to scream. As expected, you conceded that he addressed the deficit- something you denied but now want to call me captain obvious, because you have no actual point.

Sure Karen...if it makes you feel better. Nobody cares that your kid didn't get in. Why don't you let it go and move on?

Aw this is cute! Is dc applying soon so you think you have some authoritative position on admissions now? That’s adorable. But some of us actually don’t cry about the fact that we couldn’t get into Middlebury 40 years ago, sweetie. Now can you get a life and move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds about right. They need the money, bad.

Ah, the Middlebury troll is back.

Middlebury has zero financial problems, has never had any and likely never will. They are in the top 50 or so schools in the country in terms of endowment (larger than U Miami for example) with more resources per student than schools such as Cornell, Brown, Northwestern, Chicago.

Middlebury has had a small nagging deficit for awhile because Laurie Patton preferred to just ignore it. Baucomb quickly made the right decision on MIIS and I suspect that it will quickly disappear. Even if it didn't the actual budget effect is small kind of like their $1.6B endowment functioning more like a $1.4B endowment. Middlebury also draws conservatively from their endowment, taking a full point less (4.5-5.0%) than peer schools like Colby for example.

Interesting post, but are you sure that Middlebury College has a larger EPS (endowment per student) than Northwestern University ?

My figures are from the NACUBO report on endowments published in 2023; it shows Northwestern with the 31st highest EPS and Middlebury farther down the list at #60. Do you have more recent figures ? TIA

https://insidehighered.com/opinion/columns/learning-innovation/2023/09/08/endowments-full-time-equivalent-student

Many schools want to avoid the endowment tax so, if I recall correctly, it is good from this perspective to be below $500,000 per full-time student endowment.

I do, it depends on the year and the accounting method. The report doesn't jive with Middlebury's own reports or other reports which pegs Northwestern's endowment at about 532K per student. The real take away is that they are all very wealthy schools and the $8M deficit (it grew the one year to about $14 coming out of Covid and with ongoing MIIS issues being over $8M of it) is a non event in Middlebury finances except for the fact that it creates conversations like this inane thread. There is no financial crisis except in the mind of the troll who has an abnormal obsession with Middlebury.

This is 100% true if you ignore the truth and ignore the drain that’s happening to campus life due to change in finances! I get that you don’t like facing uncomfortable truths, but I really don’t see how you can think the deficit doesn’t matter when there are real financial issues that are witnessed and continue to cause issues for student programs and academic departments.

You are just sounding silly now. Should they increase their endowment withdrawal a half point and erase the deficit? (after all they drew down by less than 4.5% in 2024). Or, maybe increase it to 5.5% like Colby and spend even more money? Or, maybe we keep things where they are subtract the money and look at things like a $1.3B endowment school instead of $1.6B. So are you saying that Villanova, Pepperdine, Brandeis, CMC, etc. are unable to effectively support their students and stay financially stable? Could yo comment on the fact that their credit rating is higher than CalTech, Mudd, Baylor, Georgetown, Tufts....the list goes on and on because it is prisitne. YOu can't address any of this because you are living in a little world of your imagination where the school which rejected you is failing. But it isn't failing, you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds about right. They need the money, bad.

Ah, the Middlebury troll is back.

Middlebury has zero financial problems, has never had any and likely never will. They are in the top 50 or so schools in the country in terms of endowment (larger than U Miami for example) with more resources per student than schools such as Cornell, Brown, Northwestern, Chicago.

Middlebury has had a small nagging deficit for awhile because Laurie Patton preferred to just ignore it. Baucomb quickly made the right decision on MIIS and I suspect that it will quickly disappear. Even if it didn't the actual budget effect is small kind of like their $1.6B endowment functioning more like a $1.4B endowment. Middlebury also draws conservatively from their endowment, taking a full point less (4.5-5.0%) than peer schools like Colby for example.

It factually has a deficit that president baucom is working to fix. As an alum, it’s tiring seeing threads delude themselves that there’s anything but a deficit.

+1, I love midd. I donate to Midd as a proud parent, but the institution missed out on a decade and a half of financial glory that peer lacs have reached (Swat, Pomona, Williams, and Amherst all passing the three billion dollar endowment mark). It has also made poor enrollment decisions that have helped erode campus culture. I have a DS at Midd and a DD at Williams, and a nephew at Pomona-the differences in resources between midd and the latter two are night and day. It’s a wonderful school but you have to face reality

You had me until this: "the differences in resources between midd and the latter two are night and day."

What differences are night and day?

Sure, 1) conference and research funding is more abundant. Williams particularly has nearly non-exhaustive research funding and apparently Pomona's student government recently voted to potentially reduce the amount per student, because they've never run out of the fund. 2) Both schools deal less with faculty retention issues than Middlebury and they attract more faculty 3) less staff cuts/issues than Middlebury. 4) International experiences and connections with Oxbridge, which Middlebury lacks. You can check the Humanities program but

Middlebury-CMRS students are Associate Members of Keble College, but are not enrolled at the University of Oxford, and neither Keble College nor the University of Oxford have any responsibility for academic, pastoral, accommodation or disciplinary matters relating to M-CMRS. Students on the program are housed in St Michael’s Hall, in Oxford city center.

and the college doesn't have the fellowship funding for oxbridge study like Williams and Pomona 5) More campus events from more notable scholars including Bill Nye for Parents weekend, Oren Case, Ruha Benjamin, Carl Phillips, Kwame Appiah, Siddhartha Mukherjee, Lonnie G. Bunch III, Sal Khan, and other big speakers all have passed by, while Midd tends to have more academics. 6) Midd is currently having a class size issue, while Williams can maintain a massive tutorials program 7) Both Williams and Pomona have Nobel prize alum. Midd doesn't 8) these exceptional faculty resources lead to better outcomes for graduate school and professional school.

Both Williams and Middlebury have issues with faculty recruitment and retention, due primarily to their rural locations and lack of affordable housing and childcare services. Lack of spousal job opportunities also impacts both colleges. With its suburban location, Pomona deals less with these issues, although a high cost of living is in play.

Williams also isn't immune to budget cuts. Just two years ago, they asked all department heads to identify 15% budget cuts from their FY24 budgets due to a poor endowment performance the prior year.

Middlebury is unmatched in its global presence, with 75 programs in 40 countries. You mention Middlebury's affiliation with Keble College at Oxford, but didn't mention the Lincoln College Visiting Student Program. Students at the Williams-Exeter Program are similarly visiting, non-matriculated Oxford students, although they are fully integrated into Exeter's social and academic circles. And around 25 students participate per year. More than 50 Middlebury students study at Oxford every year. To my knowledge, Pomona doesn't have any affiliation with Oxford. They do have the Program at Jesus College, Cambridge, which students from any of the Claremont Colleges can join.

You mention more campus events from more notable scholars--this is entirely subjective. The names you mention are not necessarily well known outside academic circles. And if you want to consider Bill Nye the Science Guy as a real catch, good for you. Middlebury attracts plenty of accomplished guest speakers.

Williams maintains a massive tutorial program? As I understand it, the college offers 65ish tutorials per year, each with two students. So a total of ~130 students take a tutorial every year. The college says that just over half of Williams students take a tutorial during their time at the college. If "night and day" hinges on your opportunity to take one class while you're in college (and half don't even take advantage of it), so be it.

How does having a Nobel Prize-winning alum impact the current student experience? Bragging rights, okay. But what's the impact on everyday life?

Middlebury does just fine with grad school placement compared to peers.

Listen--Williams and Pomona are wealthier schools--no doubt about that. But saying this added wealth makes a "night and day" difference concerning the overall academic experience is ludicrous and shows bias on your part.

There's a poster on this site who scours news outlets, Middlebury's website, and the college paper for any negative stories and creates threads about them. I'm not certain what their motivation is, but I don't see them doing the same for other SLACs.

Just wanted to add that previous poster said Oxbridge, not Oxford, and that the Claremont colleges is another benefit of itself. Also tutorial is a serious advantage and you failed to mention that most of the students who do tutorial do more than one, so it clearly is a transformative experience. About 1/2 of students study abroad at each of these schools- you wouldn’t call study abroad a useless resource just because not everyone uses it and the same is true of tutorials.

PP mentions both Oxford and Cambridge in their response.

Hey can you actually read? Oxbridge is both. They made the point that Pomona doesn’t have an Oxford study abroad but that was never pp point (nor is it true, but that’s another discussion).

Can you read? Oxbridge is Oxford and Cambridge. PP mentioned programs at both. Please do tell us all about Pomona's program at Oxford (which used to exist but was cut in 2012).

Ah the classic “I’m wrong so let me copy exactly what you said and try to yell louder.” You can take up IFSA oxford like any other student. You can also do CMC’s Oxford program.can you make a point this time instead of copying mine?

You’re dense. We’re talking about Oxbridge programs that are exclusive to the colleges under discussion. Last time I checked, Pomona doesn’t run IFSA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds about right. They need the money, bad.

Ah, the Middlebury troll is back.

Middlebury has zero financial problems, has never had any and likely never will. They are in the top 50 or so schools in the country in terms of endowment (larger than U Miami for example) with more resources per student than schools such as Cornell, Brown, Northwestern, Chicago.

Middlebury has had a small nagging deficit for awhile because Laurie Patton preferred to just ignore it. Baucomb quickly made the right decision on MIIS and I suspect that it will quickly disappear. Even if it didn't the actual budget effect is small kind of like their $1.6B endowment functioning more like a $1.4B endowment. Middlebury also draws conservatively from their endowment, taking a full point less (4.5-5.0%) than peer schools like Colby for example.

It factually has a deficit that president baucom is working to fix. As an alum, it’s tiring seeing threads delude themselves that there’s anything but a deficit.

+1, I love midd. I donate to Midd as a proud parent, but the institution missed out on a decade and a half of financial glory that peer lacs have reached (Swat, Pomona, Williams, and Amherst all passing the three billion dollar endowment mark). It has also made poor enrollment decisions that have helped erode campus culture. I have a DS at Midd and a DD at Williams, and a nephew at Pomona-the differences in resources between midd and the latter two are night and day. It’s a wonderful school but you have to face reality

You had me until this: "the differences in resources between midd and the latter two are night and day."

What differences are night and day?

Sure, 1) conference and research funding is more abundant. Williams particularly has nearly non-exhaustive research funding and apparently Pomona's student government recently voted to potentially reduce the amount per student, because they've never run out of the fund. 2) Both schools deal less with faculty retention issues than Middlebury and they attract more faculty 3) less staff cuts/issues than Middlebury. 4) International experiences and connections with Oxbridge, which Middlebury lacks. You can check the Humanities program but

Middlebury-CMRS students are Associate Members of Keble College, but are not enrolled at the University of Oxford, and neither Keble College nor the University of Oxford have any responsibility for academic, pastoral, accommodation or disciplinary matters relating to M-CMRS. Students on the program are housed in St Michael’s Hall, in Oxford city center.

and the college doesn't have the fellowship funding for oxbridge study like Williams and Pomona 5) More campus events from more notable scholars including Bill Nye for Parents weekend, Oren Case, Ruha Benjamin, Carl Phillips, Kwame Appiah, Siddhartha Mukherjee, Lonnie G. Bunch III, Sal Khan, and other big speakers all have passed by, while Midd tends to have more academics. 6) Midd is currently having a class size issue, while Williams can maintain a massive tutorials program 7) Both Williams and Pomona have Nobel prize alum. Midd doesn't 8) these exceptional faculty resources lead to better outcomes for graduate school and professional school.

Both Williams and Middlebury have issues with faculty recruitment and retention, due primarily to their rural locations and lack of affordable housing and childcare services. Lack of spousal job opportunities also impacts both colleges. With its suburban location, Pomona deals less with these issues, although a high cost of living is in play.

Williams also isn't immune to budget cuts. Just two years ago, they asked all department heads to identify 15% budget cuts from their FY24 budgets due to a poor endowment performance the prior year.

Middlebury is unmatched in its global presence, with 75 programs in 40 countries. You mention Middlebury's affiliation with Keble College at Oxford, but didn't mention the Lincoln College Visiting Student Program. Students at the Williams-Exeter Program are similarly visiting, non-matriculated Oxford students, although they are fully integrated into Exeter's social and academic circles. And around 25 students participate per year. More than 50 Middlebury students study at Oxford every year. To my knowledge, Pomona doesn't have any affiliation with Oxford. They do have the Program at Jesus College, Cambridge, which students from any of the Claremont Colleges can join.

You mention more campus events from more notable scholars--this is entirely subjective. The names you mention are not necessarily well known outside academic circles. And if you want to consider Bill Nye the Science Guy as a real catch, good for you. Middlebury attracts plenty of accomplished guest speakers.

Williams maintains a massive tutorial program? As I understand it, the college offers 65ish tutorials per year, each with two students. So a total of ~130 students take a tutorial every year. The college says that just over half of Williams students take a tutorial during their time at the college. If "night and day" hinges on your opportunity to take one class while you're in college (and half don't even take advantage of it), so be it.

How does having a Nobel Prize-winning alum impact the current student experience? Bragging rights, okay. But what's the impact on everyday life?

Middlebury does just fine with grad school placement compared to peers.

Listen--Williams and Pomona are wealthier schools--no doubt about that. But saying this added wealth makes a "night and day" difference concerning the overall academic experience is ludicrous and shows bias on your part.

There's a poster on this site who scours news outlets, Middlebury's website, and the college paper for any negative stories and creates threads about them. I'm not certain what their motivation is, but I don't see them doing the same for other SLACs.

Just wanted to add that previous poster said Oxbridge, not Oxford, and that the Claremont colleges is another benefit of itself. Also tutorial is a serious advantage and you failed to mention that most of the students who do tutorial do more than one, so it clearly is a transformative experience. About 1/2 of students study abroad at each of these schools- you wouldn’t call study abroad a useless resource just because not everyone uses it and the same is true of tutorials.

PP mentions both Oxford and Cambridge in their response.

Hey can you actually read? Oxbridge is both. They made the point that Pomona doesn’t have an Oxford study abroad but that was never pp point (nor is it true, but that’s another discussion).

Can you read? Oxbridge is Oxford and Cambridge. PP mentioned programs at both. Please do tell us all about Pomona's program at Oxford (which used to exist but was cut in 2012).

Ah the classic “I’m wrong so let me copy exactly what you said and try to yell louder.” You can take up IFSA oxford like any other student. You can also do CMC’s Oxford program.can you make a point this time instead of copying mine?

You’re dense. We’re talking about Oxbridge programs that are exclusive to the colleges under discussion. Last time I checked, Pomona doesn’t run IFSA.
Unrelated, but Pomona has a fellowship to Cambridge, similar to Williams, which also has fellowships to oxford. I'd highly recommend either for students: https://www.dow.cam.ac.uk/sites/default/files/2016_pomonainfo.pdf
https://fellowships.williams.edu/williams-fellowships/. I'd always recommend a student take these tense forums with a grain of salt, and actually look at opportunities! Now continue fighting or what have you two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:35 students in a class is still quite small, and if you come from a public high school, that’s close to normal, granted most probably came from private. These kids need to stop whining because there is little difference between 20 and 35 in a college class, even 9 and 20 or 35. If they can’t find a way to speak up or use AI to cheat on readings, that tells you more about student. Welcome to the real world.

Absurd argument defending a college charging $93,176 a year. My SLAC’s seminars were no more than 13.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds about right. They need the money, bad.

Ah, the Middlebury troll is back.

Middlebury has zero financial problems, has never had any and likely never will. They are in the top 50 or so schools in the country in terms of endowment (larger than U Miami for example) with more resources per student than schools such as Cornell, Brown, Northwestern, Chicago.

Middlebury has had a small nagging deficit for awhile because Laurie Patton preferred to just ignore it. Baucomb quickly made the right decision on MIIS and I suspect that it will quickly disappear. Even if it didn't the actual budget effect is small kind of like their $1.6B endowment functioning more like a $1.4B endowment. Middlebury also draws conservatively from their endowment, taking a full point less (4.5-5.0%) than peer schools like Colby for example.

It factually has a deficit that president baucom is working to fix. As an alum, it’s tiring seeing threads delude themselves that there’s anything but a deficit.

+1, I love midd. I donate to Midd as a proud parent, but the institution missed out on a decade and a half of financial glory that peer lacs have reached (Swat, Pomona, Williams, and Amherst all passing the three billion dollar endowment mark). It has also made poor enrollment decisions that have helped erode campus culture. I have a DS at Midd and a DD at Williams, and a nephew at Pomona-the differences in resources between midd and the latter two are night and day. It’s a wonderful school but you have to face reality

You had me until this: "the differences in resources between midd and the latter two are night and day."

What differences are night and day?

Sure, 1) conference and research funding is more abundant. Williams particularly has nearly non-exhaustive research funding and apparently Pomona's student government recently voted to potentially reduce the amount per student, because they've never run out of the fund. 2) Both schools deal less with faculty retention issues than Middlebury and they attract more faculty 3) less staff cuts/issues than Middlebury. 4) International experiences and connections with Oxbridge, which Middlebury lacks. You can check the Humanities program but

Middlebury-CMRS students are Associate Members of Keble College, but are not enrolled at the University of Oxford, and neither Keble College nor the University of Oxford have any responsibility for academic, pastoral, accommodation or disciplinary matters relating to M-CMRS. Students on the program are housed in St Michael’s Hall, in Oxford city center.

and the college doesn't have the fellowship funding for oxbridge study like Williams and Pomona 5) More campus events from more notable scholars including Bill Nye for Parents weekend, Oren Case, Ruha Benjamin, Carl Phillips, Kwame Appiah, Siddhartha Mukherjee, Lonnie G. Bunch III, Sal Khan, and other big speakers all have passed by, while Midd tends to have more academics. 6) Midd is currently having a class size issue, while Williams can maintain a massive tutorials program 7) Both Williams and Pomona have Nobel prize alum. Midd doesn't 8) these exceptional faculty resources lead to better outcomes for graduate school and professional school.

Both Williams and Middlebury have issues with faculty recruitment and retention, due primarily to their rural locations and lack of affordable housing and childcare services. Lack of spousal job opportunities also impacts both colleges. With its suburban location, Pomona deals less with these issues, although a high cost of living is in play.

Williams also isn't immune to budget cuts. Just two years ago, they asked all department heads to identify 15% budget cuts from their FY24 budgets due to a poor endowment performance the prior year.

Middlebury is unmatched in its global presence, with 75 programs in 40 countries. You mention Middlebury's affiliation with Keble College at Oxford, but didn't mention the Lincoln College Visiting Student Program. Students at the Williams-Exeter Program are similarly visiting, non-matriculated Oxford students, although they are fully integrated into Exeter's social and academic circles. And around 25 students participate per year. More than 50 Middlebury students study at Oxford every year. To my knowledge, Pomona doesn't have any affiliation with Oxford. They do have the Program at Jesus College, Cambridge, which students from any of the Claremont Colleges can join.

You mention more campus events from more notable scholars--this is entirely subjective. The names you mention are not necessarily well known outside academic circles. And if you want to consider Bill Nye the Science Guy as a real catch, good for you. Middlebury attracts plenty of accomplished guest speakers.

Williams maintains a massive tutorial program? As I understand it, the college offers 65ish tutorials per year, each with two students. So a total of ~130 students take a tutorial every year. The college says that just over half of Williams students take a tutorial during their time at the college. If "night and day" hinges on your opportunity to take one class while you're in college (and half don't even take advantage of it), so be it.

How does having a Nobel Prize-winning alum impact the current student experience? Bragging rights, okay. But what's the impact on everyday life?

Middlebury does just fine with grad school placement compared to peers.

Listen--Williams and Pomona are wealthier schools--no doubt about that. But saying this added wealth makes a "night and day" difference concerning the overall academic experience is ludicrous and shows bias on your part.

There's a poster on this site who scours news outlets, Middlebury's website, and the college paper for any negative stories and creates threads about them. I'm not certain what their motivation is, but I don't see them doing the same for other SLACs.

Just wanted to add that previous poster said Oxbridge, not Oxford, and that the Claremont colleges is another benefit of itself. Also tutorial is a serious advantage and you failed to mention that most of the students who do tutorial do more than one, so it clearly is a transformative experience. About 1/2 of students study abroad at each of these schools- you wouldn’t call study abroad a useless resource just because not everyone uses it and the same is true of tutorials.

PP mentions both Oxford and Cambridge in their response.

Hey can you actually read? Oxbridge is both. They made the point that Pomona doesn’t have an Oxford study abroad but that was never pp point (nor is it true, but that’s another discussion).

Can you read? Oxbridge is Oxford and Cambridge. PP mentioned programs at both. Please do tell us all about Pomona's program at Oxford (which used to exist but was cut in 2012).

Ah the classic “I’m wrong so let me copy exactly what you said and try to yell louder.” You can take up IFSA oxford like any other student. You can also do CMC’s Oxford program.can you make a point this time instead of copying mine?

You’re dense. We’re talking about Oxbridge programs that are exclusive to the colleges under discussion. Last time I checked, Pomona doesn’t run IFSA.

Unrelated, but Pomona has a fellowship to Cambridge, similar to Williams, which also has fellowships to oxford. I'd highly recommend either for students: https://www.dow.cam.ac.uk/sites/default/files/2016_pomonainfo.pdf
https://fellowships.williams.edu/williams-fellowships/. I'd always recommend a student take these tense forums with a grain of salt, and actually look at opportunities! Now continue fighting or what have you two. [b]

NP. Fighting over Oxbridge programs means nothing because anyone who is at Oxford knows these American SLAC run programs have nothing to do with the real Oxford and are run simply so kids and their parents can say “and DD studied at Oxford!”. No, they did. Not. They participated in their college’s summer, semester program at Oxford which the college leases space for and pays for. They do not apply and were never accepted by Ixford and are not taught in real tutorials by real dons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds about right. They need the money, bad.

Ah, the Middlebury troll is back.

Middlebury has zero financial problems, has never had any and likely never will. They are in the top 50 or so schools in the country in terms of endowment (larger than U Miami for example) with more resources per student than schools such as Cornell, Brown, Northwestern, Chicago.

Middlebury has had a small nagging deficit for awhile because Laurie Patton preferred to just ignore it. Baucomb quickly made the right decision on MIIS and I suspect that it will quickly disappear. Even if it didn't the actual budget effect is small kind of like their $1.6B endowment functioning more like a $1.4B endowment. Middlebury also draws conservatively from their endowment, taking a full point less (4.5-5.0%) than peer schools like Colby for example.

It factually has a deficit that president baucom is working to fix. As an alum, it’s tiring seeing threads delude themselves that there’s anything but a deficit.

+1, I love midd. I donate to Midd as a proud parent, but the institution missed out on a decade and a half of financial glory that peer lacs have reached (Swat, Pomona, Williams, and Amherst all passing the three billion dollar endowment mark). It has also made poor enrollment decisions that have helped erode campus culture. I have a DS at Midd and a DD at Williams, and a nephew at Pomona-the differences in resources between midd and the latter two are night and day. It’s a wonderful school but you have to face reality

You had me until this: "the differences in resources between midd and the latter two are night and day."

What differences are night and day?

Sure, 1) conference and research funding is more abundant. Williams particularly has nearly non-exhaustive research funding and apparently Pomona's student government recently voted to potentially reduce the amount per student, because they've never run out of the fund. 2) Both schools deal less with faculty retention issues than Middlebury and they attract more faculty 3) less staff cuts/issues than Middlebury. 4) International experiences and connections with Oxbridge, which Middlebury lacks. You can check the Humanities program but

Middlebury-CMRS students are Associate Members of Keble College, but are not enrolled at the University of Oxford, and neither Keble College nor the University of Oxford have any responsibility for academic, pastoral, accommodation or disciplinary matters relating to M-CMRS. Students on the program are housed in St Michael’s Hall, in Oxford city center.

and the college doesn't have the fellowship funding for oxbridge study like Williams and Pomona 5) More campus events from more notable scholars including Bill Nye for Parents weekend, Oren Case, Ruha Benjamin, Carl Phillips, Kwame Appiah, Siddhartha Mukherjee, Lonnie G. Bunch III, Sal Khan, and other big speakers all have passed by, while Midd tends to have more academics. 6) Midd is currently having a class size issue, while Williams can maintain a massive tutorials program 7) Both Williams and Pomona have Nobel prize alum. Midd doesn't 8) these exceptional faculty resources lead to better outcomes for graduate school and professional school.

Both Williams and Middlebury have issues with faculty recruitment and retention, due primarily to their rural locations and lack of affordable housing and childcare services. Lack of spousal job opportunities also impacts both colleges. With its suburban location, Pomona deals less with these issues, although a high cost of living is in play.

Williams also isn't immune to budget cuts. Just two years ago, they asked all department heads to identify 15% budget cuts from their FY24 budgets due to a poor endowment performance the prior year.

Middlebury is unmatched in its global presence, with 75 programs in 40 countries. You mention Middlebury's affiliation with Keble College at Oxford, but didn't mention the Lincoln College Visiting Student Program. Students at the Williams-Exeter Program are similarly visiting, non-matriculated Oxford students, although they are fully integrated into Exeter's social and academic circles. And around 25 students participate per year. More than 50 Middlebury students study at Oxford every year. To my knowledge, Pomona doesn't have any affiliation with Oxford. They do have the Program at Jesus College, Cambridge, which students from any of the Claremont Colleges can join.

You mention more campus events from more notable scholars--this is entirely subjective. The names you mention are not necessarily well known outside academic circles. And if you want to consider Bill Nye the Science Guy as a real catch, good for you. Middlebury attracts plenty of accomplished guest speakers.

Williams maintains a massive tutorial program? As I understand it, the college offers 65ish tutorials per year, each with two students. So a total of ~130 students take a tutorial every year. The college says that just over half of Williams students take a tutorial during their time at the college. If "night and day" hinges on your opportunity to take one class while you're in college (and half don't even take advantage of it), so be it.

How does having a Nobel Prize-winning alum impact the current student experience? Bragging rights, okay. But what's the impact on everyday life?

Middlebury does just fine with grad school placement compared to peers.

Listen--Williams and Pomona are wealthier schools--no doubt about that. But saying this added wealth makes a "night and day" difference concerning the overall academic experience is ludicrous and shows bias on your part.

There's a poster on this site who scours news outlets, Middlebury's website, and the college paper for any negative stories and creates threads about them. I'm not certain what their motivation is, but I don't see them doing the same for other SLACs.

Just wanted to add that previous poster said Oxbridge, not Oxford, and that the Claremont colleges is another benefit of itself. Also tutorial is a serious advantage and you failed to mention that most of the students who do tutorial do more than one, so it clearly is a transformative experience. About 1/2 of students study abroad at each of these schools- you wouldn’t call study abroad a useless resource just because not everyone uses it and the same is true of tutorials.

PP mentions both Oxford and Cambridge in their response.

Hey can you actually read? Oxbridge is both. They made the point that Pomona doesn’t have an Oxford study abroad but that was never pp point (nor is it true, but that’s another discussion).

Can you read? Oxbridge is Oxford and Cambridge. PP mentioned programs at both. Please do tell us all about Pomona's program at Oxford (which used to exist but was cut in 2012).

Ah the classic “I’m wrong so let me copy exactly what you said and try to yell louder.” You can take up IFSA oxford like any other student. You can also do CMC’s Oxford program.can you make a point this time instead of copying mine?

You’re dense. We’re talking about Oxbridge programs that are exclusive to the colleges under discussion. Last time I checked, Pomona doesn’t run IFSA.

Unrelated, but Pomona has a fellowship to Cambridge, similar to Williams, which also has fellowships to oxford. I'd highly recommend either for students: https://www.dow.cam.ac.uk/sites/default/files/2016_pomonainfo.pdf
https://fellowships.williams.edu/williams-fellowships/. I'd always recommend a student take these tense forums with a grain of salt, and actually look at opportunities! Now continue fighting or what have you two.

NP. Fighting over Oxbridge programs means nothing because anyone who is at Oxford knows these American SLAC run programs have nothing to do with the real Oxford and are run simply so kids and their parents can say “and DD studied at Oxford!”. No, they did. Not. They participated in their college’s summer, semester program at Oxford which the college leases space for and pays for. They do not apply and were never accepted by Oxford and are not taught in real tutorials by real dons.

You definitely haven't done your research. Oxford and Cambridge don't pay for these programs, we are talking about college operated programs with Oxbridge professors. It gets really tiring seeing people make up stuff and thinking shouting makes their point important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds about right. They need the money, bad.

Ah, the Middlebury troll is back.

Middlebury has zero financial problems, has never had any and likely never will. They are in the top 50 or so schools in the country in terms of endowment (larger than U Miami for example) with more resources per student than schools such as Cornell, Brown, Northwestern, Chicago.

Middlebury has had a small nagging deficit for awhile because Laurie Patton preferred to just ignore it. Baucomb quickly made the right decision on MIIS and I suspect that it will quickly disappear. Even if it didn't the actual budget effect is small kind of like their $1.6B endowment functioning more like a $1.4B endowment. Middlebury also draws conservatively from their endowment, taking a full point less (4.5-5.0%) than peer schools like Colby for example.

Interesting post, but are you sure that Middlebury College has a larger EPS (endowment per student) than Northwestern University ?

My figures are from the NACUBO report on endowments published in 2023; it shows Northwestern with the 31st highest EPS and Middlebury farther down the list at #60. Do you have more recent figures ? TIA

https://insidehighered.com/opinion/columns/learning-innovation/2023/09/08/endowments-full-time-equivalent-student

Many schools want to avoid the endowment tax so, if I recall correctly, it is good from this perspective to be below $500,000 per full-time student endowment.

I do, it depends on the year and the accounting method. The report doesn't jive with Middlebury's own reports or other reports which pegs Northwestern's endowment at about 532K per student. The real take away is that they are all very wealthy schools and the $8M deficit (it grew the one year to about $14 coming out of Covid and with ongoing MIIS issues being over $8M of it) is a non event in Middlebury finances except for the fact that it creates conversations like this inane thread. There is no financial crisis except in the mind of the troll who has an abnormal obsession with Middlebury.

This is 100% true if you ignore the truth and ignore the drain that’s happening to campus life due to change in finances! I get that you don’t like facing uncomfortable truths, but I really don’t see how you can think the deficit doesn’t matter when there are real financial issues that are witnessed and continue to cause issues for student programs and academic departments.

You are just sounding silly now. Should they increase their endowment withdrawal a half point and erase the deficit? (after all they drew down by less than 4.5% in 2024). Or, maybe increase it to 5.5% like Colby and spend even more money? Or, maybe we keep things where they are subtract the money and look at things like a $1.3B endowment school instead of $1.6B. So are you saying that Villanova, Pepperdine, Brandeis, CMC, etc. are unable to effectively support their students and stay financially stable? Could yo comment on the fact that their credit rating is higher than CalTech, Mudd, Baylor, Georgetown, Tufts....the list goes on and on because it is prisitne. YOu can't address any of this because you are living in a little world of your imagination where the school which rejected you is failing. But it isn't failing, you are.

Seeing as all of these schools (Villanova, Pepperdine, Brandeis, CMC) are a wide margin worse than Williams...yeah, seems to be a struggle. Mind you, CMC is rising on the basis that it hardly has to run many majors and basically highly specializes in economics and government. Middlebury has multiples of the majors run by CMC, which means many more faculty and they have 2x the amount of students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds about right. They need the money, bad.

Ah, the Middlebury troll is back.

Middlebury has zero financial problems, has never had any and likely never will. They are in the top 50 or so schools in the country in terms of endowment (larger than U Miami for example) with more resources per student than schools such as Cornell, Brown, Northwestern, Chicago.

Middlebury has had a small nagging deficit for awhile because Laurie Patton preferred to just ignore it. Baucomb quickly made the right decision on MIIS and I suspect that it will quickly disappear. Even if it didn't the actual budget effect is small kind of like their $1.6B endowment functioning more like a $1.4B endowment. Middlebury also draws conservatively from their endowment, taking a full point less (4.5-5.0%) than peer schools like Colby for example.

Interesting post, but are you sure that Middlebury College has a larger EPS (endowment per student) than Northwestern University ?

My figures are from the NACUBO report on endowments published in 2023; it shows Northwestern with the 31st highest EPS and Middlebury farther down the list at #60. Do you have more recent figures ? TIA

https://insidehighered.com/opinion/columns/learning-innovation/2023/09/08/endowments-full-time-equivalent-student

Many schools want to avoid the endowment tax so, if I recall correctly, it is good from this perspective to be below $500,000 per full-time student endowment.

I do, it depends on the year and the accounting method. The report doesn't jive with Middlebury's own reports or other reports which pegs Northwestern's endowment at about 532K per student. The real take away is that they are all very wealthy schools and the $8M deficit (it grew the one year to about $14 coming out of Covid and with ongoing MIIS issues being over $8M of it) is a non event in Middlebury finances except for the fact that it creates conversations like this inane thread. There is no financial crisis except in the mind of the troll who has an abnormal obsession with Middlebury.

This is 100% true if you ignore the truth and ignore the drain that’s happening to campus life due to change in finances! I get that you don’t like facing uncomfortable truths, but I really don’t see how you can think the deficit doesn’t matter when there are real financial issues that are witnessed and continue to cause issues for student programs and academic departments.

You are just sounding silly now. Should they increase their endowment withdrawal a half point and erase the deficit? (after all they drew down by less than 4.5% in 2024). Or, maybe increase it to 5.5% like Colby and spend even more money? Or, maybe we keep things where they are subtract the money and look at things like a $1.3B endowment school instead of $1.6B. So are you saying that Villanova, Pepperdine, Brandeis, CMC, etc. are unable to effectively support their students and stay financially stable? Could yo comment on the fact that their credit rating is higher than CalTech, Mudd, Baylor, Georgetown, Tufts....the list goes on and on because it is prisitne. YOu can't address any of this because you are living in a little world of your imagination where the school which rejected you is failing. But it isn't failing, you are.

Seeing as all of these schools (Villanova, Pepperdine, Brandeis, CMC) are a wide margin worse than Williams...yeah, seems to be a struggle. Mind you, CMC is rising on the basis that it hardly has to run many majors and basically highly specializes in economics and government. Middlebury has multiples of the majors run by CMC, which means many more faculty and they have 2x the amount of students.

What are you trying to say?