MCPS to ban redshirting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP Here: Thanks for the replies so far.

I have reached out to the registrar of our home elementary school for clarification and I will update this thread when I get a response.

Of course, it seems some of the families affected by this in DC had received assurances they could redshirt and were still not allowed to so a reply from the school is not binding.

I am a DCPS teacher and MCPS parent. They were not given assurances, they assumed based on previous years happenings and when a new principal came in and followed the clearly stated rule (it was a DCPS rule that the previous principal had been skirting) they got mad.

That was the problem; the principals had discretion to bend the rules and this one principal in particular often did. These families had been allowed to redshirt their older children. They didn’t anticipate that principal leaving and a new one refusing to allow redshirting. They redshirted under the old principal, then the new principal came in and wouldn’t allow their kids to enroll in Kindergarten. They were told their kids had to skip K and go straight to 1st grade. Understandably, they weren’t fans of that idea.

The DCPS parents were ridiculous. They thought rules don't apply to them/their special snowflake kids, even when they're written clearly for all to see.

The problem stemmed from the old principal who didn’t enforce the rules. The parents just exploited that weakness in the system.

Yes, everything is the fault of the people who didn't immediately the rulebreakers, and the rulebreakers themselves bear no responsibility, even though the rules were clearly written for all to see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP Here: Thanks for the replies so far.

I have reached out to the registrar of our home elementary school for clarification and I will update this thread when I get a response.

Of course, it seems some of the families affected by this in DC had received assurances they could redshirt and were still not allowed to so a reply from the school is not binding.

I am a DCPS teacher and MCPS parent. They were not given assurances, they assumed based on previous years happenings and when a new principal came in and followed the clearly stated rule (it was a DCPS rule that the previous principal had been skirting) they got mad.

That was the problem; the principals had discretion to bend the rules and this one principal in particular often did. These families had been allowed to redshirt their older children. They didn’t anticipate that principal leaving and a new one refusing to allow redshirting. They redshirted under the old principal, then the new principal came in and wouldn’t allow their kids to enroll in Kindergarten. They were told their kids had to skip K and go straight to 1st grade. Understandably, they weren’t fans of that idea.

The DCPS parents were ridiculous. They thought rules don't apply to them/their special snowflake kids, even when they're written clearly for all to see.

The problem stemmed from the old principal who didn’t enforce the rules. The parents just exploited that weakness in the system.

Yes, everything is the fault of the people who didn't immediately the rulebreakers, and the rulebreakers themselves bear no responsibility, even though the rules were clearly written for all to see.

Yeah, because there was no such rule at that school under the old principal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC was definitely not ready for K at first access and might have been an issue in the classroom. Redshirting alleviated that ahead of time and guaranteed a better K year for everyone, including the other kids and their families. DC went on to be very successful and hasn't taken any advantages (or attention, or sports positions) away from anyone else.

You sound both privileged and oblivious. You were not in the classroom at all times or in any position to know what resources your child took up or took away from others. And the fact that he was "very successful" could be due to the fact that he was a year older than many other kids in his class who went through their schooling following the prescribed norms for entrance year.

We've necessarily kept close with teachers and staff to ensure we supported them, so yes, we do have a good sense _from them_ of what it took to keep DC on track (vs. how things would have been a year earlier). But success doesn't have to be competitive. DC needed that extra time in good part to make things easier for everyone else.

Why do you assume they could not be successful and go on time.

Diagnoses and behaviors, both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend who redshirted her boys. Of course now she complains that they are bored at school.

Thanks because schools have unreasonable demands on young boys behavior and maturity, but refused to provide academic content.

They don't have unreasonable demands on young boys behavior--any more than they do for young girls. Some Malcolm Gladwell devotee parents look for any excuse to redshirt, and then humblebrag that the school isn't challenging there kid who is 18 months older than their peers, which is a huge chunk of a kid's life when they're in the early elementary school years.

You have no knowledge of child development if you believe this.

The demands on five year olds is age appropriate. The problem is preschools and parents are not preparing them with the current preschool models.

Having taught K (in MCPS) and holding a master’s in Early Childhood Education, I vehemently disagree.
Also, MCPS does currently assign kids to k-2 based on age at registration. This has been the policy for a long time. So a 6 year old being registered would likely go into 1st not K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend who redshirted her boys. Of course now she complains that they are bored at school.

Thanks because schools have unreasonable demands on young boys behavior and maturity, but refused to provide academic content.

They don't have unreasonable demands on young boys behavior--any more than they do for young girls. Some Malcolm Gladwell devotee parents look for any excuse to redshirt, and then humblebrag that the school isn't challenging there kid who is 18 months older than their peers, which is a huge chunk of a kid's life when they're in the early elementary school years.

You have no knowledge of child development if you believe this.

The demands on five year olds is age appropriate. The problem is preschools and parents are not preparing them with the current preschool models.

Having taught K (in MCPS) and holding a master’s in Early Childhood Education, I vehemently disagree.
Also, MCPS does currently assign kids to k-2 based on age at registration. This has been the policy for a long time. So a 6 year old being registered would likely go into 1st not K.

That is incorrect. Per state law, parents can request, and MCPS must automatically approve, an exemption from starting K on time. This is called a “leve of maturity waiver.”

MCPS cannot change this without changing state last.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/regulations/maryland/COMAR-13A-08-01-02-2

[Anonymous]

^^ Oops. MCPS cannot change this without changing state law. So there is no chance that MCPS itself will ban redshirting;

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I doubt it will happen because people will lose their minds over it. They might try to pass the policy, but it will never stick. In DC it wound up being a handful of parents throwing a fit. In MoCo it would be thousands of parents. And not even just parents who redshirt -- a lot of MoCo families believe redshirting should be permitted because they think it improves the maturity of K cohorts overall. In some elementary schools, it's a huge part of the culture of the school.

Lol keep telling yourself you're doing some kind of public service rather than seeking the best advantages for your own kid.

I don't think MCPS needs to ban anything but you sound ridiculous.

Np. I have a bunch of K teacher friends. They’re convinced that red shirting boys is the best for everyone. They sit better, better attention spans, more social maturity. The whole classroom benefits. The teachers have gone as far to say that girls should start at 5 and boys start at 6.

I have to agree. I feel like school is made for well behaved little girls and boys just flounder. I feel bad for little boys

Your "K teacher friends" sound like a bunch of sterotyping nitwits. Signed-mother of active girl

Any Kindergarten or preschool teacher will tell you that boys and girls tend to behave differently. There is individual variation of course, but you have to be a fool not to notice or admit that generally boys and girls exhibit different types of behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I doubt it will happen because people will lose their minds over it. They might try to pass the policy, but it will never stick. In DC it wound up being a handful of parents throwing a fit. In MoCo it would be thousands of parents. And not even just parents who redshirt -- a lot of MoCo families believe redshirting should be permitted because they think it improves the maturity of K cohorts overall. In some elementary schools, it's a huge part of the culture of the school.

Lol keep telling yourself you're doing some kind of public service rather than seeking the best advantages for your own kid.

I don't think MCPS needs to ban anything but you sound ridiculous.

Np. I have a bunch of K teacher friends. They’re convinced that red shirting boys is the best for everyone. They sit better, better attention spans, more social maturity. The whole classroom benefits. The teachers have gone as far to say that girls should start at 5 and boys start at 6.

I have to agree. I feel like school is made for well behaved little girls and boys just flounder. I feel bad for little boys

Your "K teacher friends" sound like a bunch of sterotyping nitwits. Signed-mother of active girl

Any Kindergarten or preschool teacher will tell you that boys and girls tend to behave differently. There is individual variation of course, but you have to be a fool not to notice or admit that generally boys and girls exhibit different types of behavior.

Stop with the boy hate. The real issue is most preschool teachers don't have a background in education (some preschools require an education degree but its rare) and many teachers don't have good classroom control so instead of change things their anwser is to hold back as its easier on them. A K cannot predict the future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I doubt it will happen because people will lose their minds over it. They might try to pass the policy, but it will never stick. In DC it wound up being a handful of parents throwing a fit. In MoCo it would be thousands of parents. And not even just parents who redshirt -- a lot of MoCo families believe redshirting should be permitted because they think it improves the maturity of K cohorts overall. In some elementary schools, it's a huge part of the culture of the school.

Lol keep telling yourself you're doing some kind of public service rather than seeking the best advantages for your own kid.

I don't think MCPS needs to ban anything but you sound ridiculous.

Np. I have a bunch of K teacher friends. They’re convinced that red shirting boys is the best for everyone. They sit better, better attention spans, more social maturity. The whole classroom benefits. The teachers have gone as far to say that girls should start at 5 and boys start at 6.

I have to agree. I feel like school is made for well behaved little girls and boys just flounder. I feel bad for little boys

Your "K teacher friends" sound like a bunch of sterotyping nitwits. Signed-mother of active girl

Any Kindergarten or preschool teacher will tell you that boys and girls tend to behave differently. There is individual variation of course, but you have to be a fool not to notice or admit that generally boys and girls exhibit different types of behavior.

Stop with the boy hate. The real issue is most preschool teachers don't have a background in education (some preschools require an education degree but its rare) and many teachers don't have good classroom control so instead of change things their anwser is to hold back as its easier on them. A K cannot predict the future.

This is not boy hate; anyone who has read academic studies on child development or has any experience with groups of kids knows these things. Can you beat it out of the boys or over medicate them to get them to comply? Sure, like in your country. But we understand that waiting a year does nothing to hamper anyone. See Finland.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I doubt it will happen because people will lose their minds over it. They might try to pass the policy, but it will never stick. In DC it wound up being a handful of parents throwing a fit. In MoCo it would be thousands of parents. And not even just parents who redshirt -- a lot of MoCo families believe redshirting should be permitted because they think it improves the maturity of K cohorts overall. In some elementary schools, it's a huge part of the culture of the school.

Lol keep telling yourself you're doing some kind of public service rather than seeking the best advantages for your own kid.

I don't think MCPS needs to ban anything but you sound ridiculous.

Np. I have a bunch of K teacher friends. They’re convinced that red shirting boys is the best for everyone. They sit better, better attention spans, more social maturity. The whole classroom benefits. The teachers have gone as far to say that girls should start at 5 and boys start at 6.

I have to agree. I feel like school is made for well behaved little girls and boys just flounder. I feel bad for little boys

Your "K teacher friends" sound like a bunch of sterotyping nitwits. Signed-mother of active girl

Any Kindergarten or preschool teacher will tell you that boys and girls tend to behave differently. There is individual variation of course, but you have to be a fool not to notice or admit that generally boys and girls exhibit different types of behavior.

Stop with the boy hate. The real issue is most preschool teachers don't have a background in education (some preschools require an education degree but its rare) and many teachers don't have good classroom control so instead of change things their anwser is to hold back as its easier on them. A K cannot predict the future.

This is not boy hate; anyone who has read academic studies on child development or has any experience with groups of kids knows these things. Can you beat it out of the boys or over medicate them to get them to comply? Sure, like in your country. But we understand that waiting a year does nothing to hamper anyone. See Finland.

Not trying to have my summer bday 13 year old DD in the same class as your 15 year old DS just because you're sexist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a friend who redshirted her boys. Of course now she complains that they are bored at school.

Thanks because schools have unreasonable demands on young boys behavior and maturity, but refused to provide academic content.

They don't have unreasonable demands on young boys behavior--any more than they do for young girls. Some Malcolm Gladwell devotee parents look for any excuse to redshirt, and then humblebrag that the school isn't challenging there kid who is 18 months older than their peers, which is a huge chunk of a kid's life when they're in the early elementary school years.

You have no knowledge of child development if you believe this.

The demands on five year olds is age appropriate. The problem is preschools and parents are not preparing them with the current preschool models.

Having taught K (in MCPS) and holding a master’s in Early Childhood Education, I vehemently disagree.
Also, MCPS does currently assign kids to k-2 based on age at registration. This has been the policy for a long time. So a 6 year old being registered would likely go into 1st not K.

No, a 6 year old would go into K if they didn't go to K or they went private K as they missed the cut off.

We have been at a few preschools. We pulled our kids from the play-based as it was a co-op that was not offering any academics, teaching kids to sit and do work, and many of the older kids didn't know the basics like their alphabet nor had any pre-reading skills.

They tried to force us to hold our child back in 2nd as we did private for two years due to the age cut off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I doubt it will happen because people will lose their minds over it. They might try to pass the policy, but it will never stick. In DC it wound up being a handful of parents throwing a fit. In MoCo it would be thousands of parents. And not even just parents who redshirt -- a lot of MoCo families believe redshirting should be permitted because they think it improves the maturity of K cohorts overall. In some elementary schools, it's a huge part of the culture of the school.

Lol keep telling yourself you're doing some kind of public service rather than seeking the best advantages for your own kid.

I don't think MCPS needs to ban anything but you sound ridiculous.

Np. I have a bunch of K teacher friends. They’re convinced that red shirting boys is the best for everyone. They sit better, better attention spans, more social maturity. The whole classroom benefits. The teachers have gone as far to say that girls should start at 5 and boys start at 6.

I have to agree. I feel like school is made for well behaved little girls and boys just flounder. I feel bad for little boys

Your "K teacher friends" sound like a bunch of sterotyping nitwits. Signed-mother of active girl

Any Kindergarten or preschool teacher will tell you that boys and girls tend to behave differently. There is individual variation of course, but you have to be a fool not to notice or admit that generally boys and girls exhibit different types of behavior.

Stop with the boy hate. The real issue is most preschool teachers don't have a background in education (some preschools require an education degree but its rare) and many teachers don't have good classroom control so instead of change things their anwser is to hold back as its easier on them. A K cannot predict the future.

This is not boy hate; anyone who has read academic studies on child development or has any experience with groups of kids knows these things. Can you beat it out of the boys or over medicate them to get them to comply? Sure, like in your country. But we understand that waiting a year does nothing to hamper anyone. See Finland.

You cannot compare school systems and Finland has a lot of issues. You are only looking at a small amount of information.

You need to teach kids to sit, how to do work, preliteracy skills, and premath schools in preschool, and many are not teaching that. We went to a strict preschool with academics and all the kids were prepared. None were medicated, none need to be forced. It was the routine, expectations and structure that helped. They also took a lot of young for the grade kids.

Waiting a year is an issue as you miss key developmental times, especially when there are learning disabilities involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I doubt it will happen because people will lose their minds over it. They might try to pass the policy, but it will never stick. In DC it wound up being a handful of parents throwing a fit. In MoCo it would be thousands of parents. And not even just parents who redshirt -- a lot of MoCo families believe redshirting should be permitted because they think it improves the maturity of K cohorts overall. In some elementary schools, it's a huge part of the culture of the school.

Lol keep telling yourself you're doing some kind of public service rather than seeking the best advantages for your own kid.

I don't think MCPS needs to ban anything but you sound ridiculous.

Np. I have a bunch of K teacher friends. They’re convinced that red shirting boys is the best for everyone. They sit better, better attention spans, more social maturity. The whole classroom benefits. The teachers have gone as far to say that girls should start at 5 and boys start at 6.

I have to agree. I feel like school is made for well behaved little girls and boys just flounder. I feel bad for little boys

Your "K teacher friends" sound like a bunch of sterotyping nitwits. Signed-mother of active girl

Any Kindergarten or preschool teacher will tell you that boys and girls tend to behave differently. There is individual variation of course, but you have to be a fool not to notice or admit that generally boys and girls exhibit different types of behavior.

Stop with the boy hate. The real issue is most preschool teachers don't have a background in education (some preschools require an education degree but its rare) and many teachers don't have good classroom control so instead of change things their anwser is to hold back as its easier on them. A K cannot predict the future.

This is not boy hate; anyone who has read academic studies on child development or has any experience with groups of kids knows these things. Can you beat it out of the boys or over medicate them to get them to comply? Sure, like in your country. But we understand that waiting a year does nothing to hamper anyone. See Finland.

Not trying to have my summer bday 13 year old DD in the same class as your 15 year old DS just because you're sexist.

The kids are often intermixed in HS, so the bigger issue is having a summer birthday with a 18-19 year old whose of legal age. Math, sciences, electives are all intermixed from freshman to seniors. My freshman had math, PE, and electives with seniors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I doubt it will happen because people will lose their minds over it. They might try to pass the policy, but it will never stick. In DC it wound up being a handful of parents throwing a fit. In MoCo it would be thousands of parents. And not even just parents who redshirt -- a lot of MoCo families believe redshirting should be permitted because they think it improves the maturity of K cohorts overall. In some elementary schools, it's a huge part of the culture of the school.

Lol keep telling yourself you're doing some kind of public service rather than seeking the best advantages for your own kid.

I don't think MCPS needs to ban anything but you sound ridiculous.

Np. I have a bunch of K teacher friends. They’re convinced that red shirting boys is the best for everyone. They sit better, better attention spans, more social maturity. The whole classroom benefits. The teachers have gone as far to say that girls should start at 5 and boys start at 6.

I have to agree. I feel like school is made for well behaved little girls and boys just flounder. I feel bad for little boys

Your "K teacher friends" sound like a bunch of sterotyping nitwits. Signed-mother of active girl

Any Kindergarten or preschool teacher will tell you that boys and girls tend to behave differently. There is individual variation of course, but you have to be a fool not to notice or admit that generally boys and girls exhibit different types of behavior.

Stop with the boy hate. The real issue is most preschool teachers don't have a background in education (some preschools require an education degree but its rare) and many teachers don't have good classroom control so instead of change things their anwser is to hold back as its easier on them. A K cannot predict the future.

This is not boy hate; anyone who has read academic studies on child development or has any experience with groups of kids knows these things. Can you beat it out of the boys or over medicate them to get them to comply? Sure, like in your country. But we understand that waiting a year does nothing to hamper anyone. See Finland.

Not trying to have my summer bday 13 year old DD in the same class as your 15 year old DS just because you're sexist.

The kids are often intermixed in HS, so the bigger issue is having a summer birthday with a 18-19 year old whose of legal age. Math, sciences, electives are all intermixed from freshman to seniors. My freshman had math, PE, and electives with seniors.

In this scenario, they would be in 8th grade. Summer birthdays finish out 8th grade at 13.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I doubt it will happen because people will lose their minds over it. They might try to pass the policy, but it will never stick. In DC it wound up being a handful of parents throwing a fit. In MoCo it would be thousands of parents. And not even just parents who redshirt -- a lot of MoCo families believe redshirting should be permitted because they think it improves the maturity of K cohorts overall. In some elementary schools, it's a huge part of the culture of the school.

Lol keep telling yourself you're doing some kind of public service rather than seeking the best advantages for your own kid.

I don't think MCPS needs to ban anything but you sound ridiculous.

Np. I have a bunch of K teacher friends. They’re convinced that red shirting boys is the best for everyone. They sit better, better attention spans, more social maturity. The whole classroom benefits. The teachers have gone as far to say that girls should start at 5 and boys start at 6.

I have to agree. I feel like school is made for well behaved little girls and boys just flounder. I feel bad for little boys

Your "K teacher friends" sound like a bunch of sterotyping nitwits. Signed-mother of active girl

Any Kindergarten or preschool teacher will tell you that boys and girls tend to behave differently. There is individual variation of course, but you have to be a fool not to notice or admit that generally boys and girls exhibit different types of behavior.

Stop with the boy hate. The real issue is most preschool teachers don't have a background in education (some preschools require an education degree but its rare) and many teachers don't have good classroom control so instead of change things their anwser is to hold back as its easier on them. A K cannot predict the future.

This is not boy hate; anyone who has read academic studies on child development or has any experience with groups of kids knows these things. Can you beat it out of the boys or over medicate them to get them to comply? Sure, like in your country. But we understand that waiting a year does nothing to hamper anyone. See Finland.

Not trying to have my summer bday 13 year old DD in the same class as your 15 year old DS just because you're sexist.

+1 Finland doesn’t start boys in school later than girls. It treats all kids equally. Your insistence in repeating stereotypes as if they’re fact is embarrassing.