What does it take for MCPS kids to get into UMCP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What about kids with crap grades? Can they get into another Maryland state school, like salisbury? What happens to Maryland kids who aren't good students now that UMCP is for good students only? It wasn't always like that.

Define "crap grades"

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:How rigorous a courseload are they looking for? How many APs do you typically need to take to get in-- do kids sometimes get in with only a handful of AP classes or do they need to be closer to maxing them out? Do they have to be on the advanced math track/make it to calculus by senior year to get in, or is it okay to be on grade level and just do pre-calc or AP Stats senior year (if not interested in STEM)?

28:15 here, our kid had 12 APs, mostly humanities (not math/science), but also Econ, and got 5s on all AP exams, including micro and macro economics.

My MCPS Wootton grad did not have close to 12 APs. Maybe he had 7? He didn’t have all 5s for scores either. All his other courses were honors though, except the PE and art credits. UMD wants to see rigor but is not over the top in expectations. He did have a great GPA (4.7 weighted) and a good SAT and I think that in recent years both have been required for admission.

What year was this, and what subjects were his higher vs lower rigor classes in? What was his highest class in math? Thanks!

AP Precalculus.

Thanks! Was this in the last couple of years? Can anyone else confirm that kids have been getting in with grade-level math (ending in pre-calc or stats) rather than accelerated to reach calculus in HS?

For some majors and depending on the HS you are from/connections, its possible but its pretty surprising that that is considered rigor.

What do you mean? Whether or not you're going to be able to reach calculus in high school is basically already decided for you by the time you're 10 years old (if you don't get recommended for accelerated math at the end of 3rd and/or 5th grade.). Isn't rigor based on the most rigorous classes available to you (i.e. taking honors or AP math classes at the level you're currently at, whether on-grade or ahead)? Or are kids really not able to be considered as taking a highly rigorous courseload if their 5th grade teacher didn't think they were ready for accelerated math at 10 or 11 and so they can't get to Algebra 1 until 9th grade?

Algebra 1 in 8th is the on level track in MCPS. You can do Alg. 1 in 8th, leading to calculus with no summer classes, even if you didn’t do accelerated math at 10.

No, totally inaccurate. Algebra 1 comes after math 8. To get into Algebra 1 in 8th grade you need either compression of 4-6 into 2 years in ES or compression of 6-8 into 2 years in MS. (If you have acceleration/compaction in both ES and MS you will be 2 years ahead and take Algebra 1 in 7th.) Not getting recommended for accelerated math by your 5th grade teacher means you miss out on your last chance to make it to algebra in MS and calculus in HS unless you take summer classes or take two math classes the same year or do some non-standard skipping that requires you to miss some math content in MS (none of which most kids will do.)

Can folks clarify how big of a disadvantage this puts you at for UMCP? Will high schools not check the "most rigorous" box for kids who can't make it to calculus in HS because they run out of time? Does UMCP care about the "most rigorous" box and/or the lack of calculus itself?

DP.

Alg1 in 8th is on track - this gets you to calc in 12th grade
Alg 1 in 7th is advanced - this gets you to calc in 11th grade (that's both my kids)
Alg 1 in 9th is behind

No, you are incorrect. That is actually what Jack Smith tried to do, and then when so many kids struggled in HS math had to pull back. They offer acceleration to allow kids to take algebra 1 in 8th grade when appropriate, but the on-grade level class is Algebra 1 in 9th. Kids who do compacted math in 4-5 and prealgebra in 6th can take compacted math in 7, and that is the super-accelerated track.

Both my kids took Alg in 7th grade. They both were in compacted math in ES.

Both my kids took Calc in 11th grade (one too Calc App and the other took BC calc).

This was when Jack Smith was superintendent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:How rigorous a courseload are they looking for? How many APs do you typically need to take to get in-- do kids sometimes get in with only a handful of AP classes or do they need to be closer to maxing them out? Do they have to be on the advanced math track/make it to calculus by senior year to get in, or is it okay to be on grade level and just do pre-calc or AP Stats senior year (if not interested in STEM)?

28:15 here, our kid had 12 APs, mostly humanities (not math/science), but also Econ, and got 5s on all AP exams, including micro and macro economics.

My MCPS Wootton grad did not have close to 12 APs. Maybe he had 7? He didn’t have all 5s for scores either. All his other courses were honors though, except the PE and art credits. UMD wants to see rigor but is not over the top in expectations. He did have a great GPA (4.7 weighted) and a good SAT and I think that in recent years both have been required for admission.

What year was this, and what subjects were his higher vs lower rigor classes in? What was his highest class in math? Thanks!

AP Precalculus.

Thanks! Was this in the last couple of years? Can anyone else confirm that kids have been getting in with grade-level math (ending in pre-calc or stats) rather than accelerated to reach calculus in HS?

For some majors and depending on the HS you are from/connections, its possible but its pretty surprising that that is considered rigor.

What do you mean? Whether or not you're going to be able to reach calculus in high school is basically already decided for you by the time you're 10 years old (if you don't get recommended for accelerated math at the end of 3rd and/or 5th grade.). Isn't rigor based on the most rigorous classes available to you (i.e. taking honors or AP math classes at the level you're currently at, whether on-grade or ahead)? Or are kids really not able to be considered as taking a highly rigorous courseload if their 5th grade teacher didn't think they were ready for accelerated math at 10 or 11 and so they can't get to Algebra 1 until 9th grade?

Algebra 1 in 8th is the on level track in MCPS. You can do Alg. 1 in 8th, leading to calculus with no summer classes, even if you didn’t do accelerated math at 10.

No, totally inaccurate. Algebra 1 comes after math 8. To get into Algebra 1 in 8th grade you need either compression of 4-6 into 2 years in ES or compression of 6-8 into 2 years in MS. (If you have acceleration/compaction in both ES and MS you will be 2 years ahead and take Algebra 1 in 7th.) Not getting recommended for accelerated math by your 5th grade teacher means you miss out on your last chance to make it to algebra in MS and calculus in HS unless you take summer classes or take two math classes the same year or do some non-standard skipping that requires you to miss some math content in MS (none of which most kids will do.)

Can folks clarify how big of a disadvantage this puts you at for UMCP? Will high schools not check the "most rigorous" box for kids who can't make it to calculus in HS because they run out of time? Does UMCP care about the "most rigorous" box and/or the lack of calculus itself?

DP.

Alg1 in 8th is on track - this gets you to calc in 12th grade
Alg 1 in 7th is advanced - this gets you to calc in 11th grade (that's both my kids)
Alg 1 in 9th is behind

No, you are incorrect. That is actually what Jack Smith tried to do, and then when so many kids struggled in HS math had to pull back. They offer acceleration to allow kids to take algebra 1 in 8th grade when appropriate, but the on-grade level class is Algebra 1 in 9th. Kids who do compacted math in 4-5 and prealgebra in 6th can take compacted math in 7, and that is the super-accelerated track.

Both my kids took Alg in 7th grade. They both were in compacted math in ES.

Both my kids took Calc in 11th grade (one too Calc App and the other took BC calc).

This was when Jack Smith was superintendent.

Updated Jan 2025 - there are only 3 tracks listed.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/district/curriculum/math/montgomery-county-public-schools_-prek-12-mathematics-program---google-docs.pdf

One of the pathways is Math 6+ > Math 7+ > Algebra -- > Calc in 12th grade -- on track

The advanced track is Prealg 6 > Alg 7 > Geometry 8th --> Calc in 11th grade

On track (the left most column) is Math 8 in 8th grade --> Precalc in 12th grade

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How rigorous a courseload are they looking for? How many APs do you typically need to take to get in-- do kids sometimes get in with only a handful of AP classes or do they need to be closer to maxing them out? Do they have to be on the advanced math track/make it to calculus by senior year to get in, or is it okay to be on grade level and just do pre-calc or AP Stats senior year (if not interested in STEM)?

28:15 here, our kid had 12 APs, mostly humanities (not math/science), but also Econ, and got 5s on all AP exams, including micro and macro economics.

My MCPS Wootton grad did not have close to 12 APs. Maybe he had 7? He didn’t have all 5s for scores either. All his other courses were honors though, except the PE and art credits. UMD wants to see rigor but is not over the top in expectations. He did have a great GPA (4.7 weighted) and a good SAT and I think that in recent years both have been required for admission.

What year was this, and what subjects were his higher vs lower rigor classes in? What was his highest class in math? Thanks!

AP Precalculus.

Thanks! Was this in the last couple of years? Can anyone else confirm that kids have been getting in with grade-level math (ending in pre-calc or stats) rather than accelerated to reach calculus in HS?

For some majors and depending on the HS you are from/connections, its possible but its pretty surprising that that is considered rigor.

What do you mean? Whether or not you're going to be able to reach calculus in high school is basically already decided for you by the time you're 10 years old (if you don't get recommended for accelerated math at the end of 3rd and/or 5th grade.). Isn't rigor based on the most rigorous classes available to you (i.e. taking honors or AP math classes at the level you're currently at, whether on-grade or ahead)? Or are kids really not able to be considered as taking a highly rigorous courseload if their 5th grade teacher didn't think they were ready for accelerated math at 10 or 11 and so they can't get to Algebra 1 until 9th grade?

Algebra 1 in 8th is the on level track in MCPS. You can do Alg. 1 in 8th, leading to calculus with no summer classes, even if you didn’t do accelerated math at 10.

No, totally inaccurate. Algebra 1 comes after math 8. To get into Algebra 1 in 8th grade you need either compression of 4-6 into 2 years in ES or compression of 6-8 into 2 years in MS. (If you have acceleration/compaction in both ES and MS you will be 2 years ahead and take Algebra 1 in 7th.) Not getting recommended for accelerated math by your 5th grade teacher means you miss out on your last chance to make it to algebra in MS and calculus in HS unless you take summer classes or take two math classes the same year or do some non-standard skipping that requires you to miss some math content in MS (none of which most kids will do.)

Can folks clarify how big of a disadvantage this puts you at for UMCP? Will high schools not check the "most rigorous" box for kids who can't make it to calculus in HS because they run out of time? Does UMCP care about the "most rigorous" box and/or the lack of calculus itself?

DP.

Alg1 in 8th is on track - this gets you to calc in 12th grade
Alg 1 in 7th is advanced - this gets you to calc in 11th grade (that's both my kids)
Alg 1 in 9th is behind

No, you are incorrect. That is actually what Jack Smith tried to do, and then when so many kids struggled in HS math had to pull back. They offer acceleration to allow kids to take algebra 1 in 8th grade when appropriate, but the on-grade level class is Algebra 1 in 9th. Kids who do compacted math in 4-5 and prealgebra in 6th can take compacted math in 7, and that is the super-accelerated track.

Both my kids took Alg in 7th grade. They both were in compacted math in ES.

Both my kids took Calc in 11th grade (one too Calc App and the other took BC calc).

This was when Jack Smith was superintendent.

Updated Jan 2025 - there are only 3 tracks listed.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/district/curriculum/math/montgomery-county-public-schools_-prek-12-mathematics-program---google-docs.pdf

One of the pathways is Math 6+ > Math 7+ > Algebra -- > Calc in 12th grade -- on track

The advanced track is Prealg 6 > Alg 7 > Geometry 8th --> Calc in 11th grade

On track (the left most column) is Math 8 in 8th grade --> Precalc in 12th grade

Sorry "On track (the left most column) is Math 8 in 8th grade --> Precalc in 12th grade" should read "Slower track.. Precalc in 12th grade".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What about kids with crap grades? Can they get into another Maryland state school, like salisbury? What happens to Maryland kids who aren't good students now that UMCP is for good students only? It wasn't always like that.

Towson, UMBC, St. Mary's, Frostburg, and a few others

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How rigorous a courseload are they looking for? How many APs do you typically need to take to get in-- do kids sometimes get in with only a handful of AP classes or do they need to be closer to maxing them out? Do they have to be on the advanced math track/make it to calculus by senior year to get in, or is it okay to be on grade level and just do pre-calc or AP Stats senior year (if not interested in STEM)?

28:15 here, our kid had 12 APs, mostly humanities (not math/science), but also Econ, and got 5s on all AP exams, including micro and macro economics.

My MCPS Wootton grad did not have close to 12 APs. Maybe he had 7? He didn’t have all 5s for scores either. All his other courses were honors though, except the PE and art credits. UMD wants to see rigor but is not over the top in expectations. He did have a great GPA (4.7 weighted) and a good SAT and I think that in recent years both have been required for admission.

What year was this, and what subjects were his higher vs lower rigor classes in? What was his highest class in math? Thanks!

AP Precalculus.

Thanks! Was this in the last couple of years? Can anyone else confirm that kids have been getting in with grade-level math (ending in pre-calc or stats) rather than accelerated to reach calculus in HS?

For some majors and depending on the HS you are from/connections, its possible but its pretty surprising that that is considered rigor.

What do you mean? Whether or not you're going to be able to reach calculus in high school is basically already decided for you by the time you're 10 years old (if you don't get recommended for accelerated math at the end of 3rd and/or 5th grade.). Isn't rigor based on the most rigorous classes available to you (i.e. taking honors or AP math classes at the level you're currently at, whether on-grade or ahead)? Or are kids really not able to be considered as taking a highly rigorous courseload if their 5th grade teacher didn't think they were ready for accelerated math at 10 or 11 and so they can't get to Algebra 1 until 9th grade?

Algebra 1 in 8th is the on level track in MCPS. You can do Alg. 1 in 8th, leading to calculus with no summer classes, even if you didn’t do accelerated math at 10.

No, totally inaccurate. Algebra 1 comes after math 8. To get into Algebra 1 in 8th grade you need either compression of 4-6 into 2 years in ES or compression of 6-8 into 2 years in MS. (If you have acceleration/compaction in both ES and MS you will be 2 years ahead and take Algebra 1 in 7th.) Not getting recommended for accelerated math by your 5th grade teacher means you miss out on your last chance to make it to algebra in MS and calculus in HS unless you take summer classes or take two math classes the same year or do some non-standard skipping that requires you to miss some math content in MS (none of which most kids will do.)

Can folks clarify how big of a disadvantage this puts you at for UMCP? Will high schools not check the "most rigorous" box for kids who can't make it to calculus in HS because they run out of time? Does UMCP care about the "most rigorous" box and/or the lack of calculus itself?

DP.

Alg1 in 8th is on track - this gets you to calc in 12th grade
Alg 1 in 7th is advanced - this gets you to calc in 11th grade (that's both my kids)
Alg 1 in 9th is behind

No, you are incorrect. That is actually what Jack Smith tried to do, and then when so many kids struggled in HS math had to pull back. They offer acceleration to allow kids to take algebra 1 in 8th grade when appropriate, but the on-grade level class is Algebra 1 in 9th. Kids who do compacted math in 4-5 and prealgebra in 6th can take compacted math in 7, and that is the super-accelerated track.

Both my kids took Alg in 7th grade. They both were in compacted math in ES.

Both my kids took Calc in 11th grade (one too Calc App and the other took BC calc).

This was when Jack Smith was superintendent.

Updated Jan 2025 - there are only 3 tracks listed.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/district/curriculum/math/montgomery-county-public-schools_-prek-12-mathematics-program---google-docs.pdf

One of the pathways is Math 6+ > Math 7+ > Algebra -- > Calc in 12th grade -- on track

The advanced track is Prealg 6 > Alg 7 > Geometry 8th --> Calc in 11th grade

On track (the left most column) is Math 8 in 8th grade --> Precalc in 12th grade

There is flexibility in the schools. Super advanced at some schools start in 6th, some schools even offer Algebra in 5th. Kids will also do summer school to accelerate.

[Anonymous]

Reminder - math discussion move to this thread. https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/15/1295718.page

[Anonymous]

I think Frostburg may be the most likely admit for the 4-year college kids with less than stellar grades.

[Anonymous]

Folks following this thread might find some of the data from UMD interesting.

https://irpa.umd.edu/CampusCounts/ - has a variety of yearly reports regarding enrollment and graduation.
https://irpa.umd.edu/CampusCounts/Admissions/apps_ug.pdf
https://irpa.umd.edu/CampusCounts/Retention/ug_retcomp.pdf
https://irpa.umd.edu/CampusCounts/Retention/ug_degree_summ.pdf

I first found these when my oldest enrolled at UMD in 2018. I was surprised to see that ~25% of degrees awarded are to students who transferred in. I think that is a good thing - it allows more focus at UMD on the upper level courses and has students sort themselves out in 1st year courses and Gen Eds at the community colleges.

Another set of interesting data is at:
https://reports.umd.edu/
https://reports.umd.edu/tableaupublic/1824 - shows enrollment by county.

There is so much hand-wringing and perceptions that MCPS is somehow being treated unfairly in admissions. But the fact is that MoCo ~17% of Maryland's population, but has 37.5% of the UMD undergraduate enrollment.

I did a rough average of county enrollment per public high school (an over estimate) and Montgomery County has an average of ~88 students per public high school. Next highest is Howard, with ~61 per public high school. The state average is 17 per public high school. High schools in MoCo enroll 5 times more students than the MD average. (Yes, our schools are very large, but even accounting for total student population, MoCo is over represented proportionally at UMD.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What about kids with crap grades? Can they get into another Maryland state school, like salisbury? What happens to Maryland kids who aren't good students now that UMCP is for good students only? It wasn't always like that.

Plenty of good Maryland schools:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_Maryland

I think the most popular in the University System of Maryland are:
https://www.umbc.edu/
http://www.towson.edu/
https://www.morgan.edu/
https://www.bowiestate.edu/
http://www.salisbury.edu/
https://www.frostburg.edu/
http://www.smcm.edu/
There are plenty of good students at these schools who just weren't in the tippy-top of their graduating class, as well as students who have mixed grades but are ready for college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nah Maryland is California’s mini me - meaning they want you to go through cc and enter as a junior.

From accidentally coming upon their graduation this year they targeted one group for traditional path at least 5 years ago: South Asians.

Seemed like they took advice from some high priced census data quant.

H1B visa reform likely will alter UMD strategy. Prediction? Look for a more normal admissions cycle in near term - still smart but not impossible admit.

International students have F1 visas, which have not been curtailed in any meaningful way.

This has nothing to do with H1B.

MAGA won't stop their MAGAying. One this is for sure - sour grapes!

I'm not the PP, but I'll own a MAGA position. Slots in our universities, subsidized by our taxpayers, should go to our students. UMD should establish a cut-off score and all Maryland students above that cut-off should be admitted.

And yes, H1B visas are subject to massive abuse. I know at least three strong CS graduates from this spring who have not found jobs, yet the industry continues to cry out for visas... https://www.finalroundai.com/blog/computer-science-graduates-face-worst-job-market-in-decades#:~:text=Some%20other%20factors%20contributing%20to%20the%20job,this%20field%20because%20you%20enjoy%20solving%20problems

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nah Maryland is California’s mini me - meaning they want you to go through cc and enter as a junior.

From accidentally coming upon their graduation this year they targeted one group for traditional path at least 5 years ago: South Asians.

Seemed like they took advice from some high priced census data quant.

H1B visa reform likely will alter UMD strategy. Prediction? Look for a more normal admissions cycle in near term - still smart but not impossible admit.

International students have F1 visas, which have not been curtailed in any meaningful way.

This has nothing to do with H1B.

MAGA won't stop their MAGAying. One this is for sure - sour grapes!

I'm not the PP, but I'll own a MAGA position. Slots in our universities, subsidized by our taxpayers, should go to our students. UMD should establish a cut-off score and all Maryland students above that cut-off should be admitted.

And yes, H1B visas are subject to massive abuse. I know at least three strong CS graduates from this spring who have not found jobs, yet the industry continues to cry out for visas... https://www.finalroundai.com/blog/computer-science-graduates-face-worst-job-market-in-decades#:~:text=Some%20other%20factors%20contributing%20to%20the%20job,this%20field%20because%20you%20enjoy%20solving%20problems

FYI - entry level CS jobs have been offshored for over 10 years. Even if they gut H1s, those entry level jobs aren't coming back.

-someone who's been in tech for over 20 years and has a DC in CS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nah Maryland is California’s mini me - meaning they want you to go through cc and enter as a junior.

From accidentally coming upon their graduation this year they targeted one group for traditional path at least 5 years ago: South Asians.

Seemed like they took advice from some high priced census data quant.

H1B visa reform likely will alter UMD strategy. Prediction? Look for a more normal admissions cycle in near term - still smart but not impossible admit.

International students have F1 visas, which have not been curtailed in any meaningful way.

This has nothing to do with H1B.

MAGA won't stop their MAGAying. One this is for sure - sour grapes!

I'm not the PP, but I'll own a MAGA position. Slots in our universities, subsidized by our taxpayers, should go to our students. UMD should establish a cut-off score and all Maryland students above that cut-off should be admitted.

And yes, H1B visas are subject to massive abuse. I know at least three strong CS graduates from this spring who have not found jobs, yet the industry continues to cry out for visas... https://www.finalroundai.com/blog/computer-science-graduates-face-worst-job-market-in-decades#:~:text=Some%20other%20factors%20contributing%20to%20the%20job,this%20field%20because%20you%20enjoy%20solving%20problems

FYI - entry level CS jobs have been offshored for over 10 years. Even if they gut H1s, those entry level jobs aren't coming back.

-someone who's been in tech for over 20 years and has a DC in CS

AWS employee here… we hire L4 interns and grads all the time

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nah Maryland is California’s mini me - meaning they want you to go through cc and enter as a junior.

From accidentally coming upon their graduation this year they targeted one group for traditional path at least 5 years ago: South Asians.

Seemed like they took advice from some high priced census data quant.

H1B visa reform likely will alter UMD strategy. Prediction? Look for a more normal admissions cycle in near term - still smart but not impossible admit.

International students have F1 visas, which have not been curtailed in any meaningful way.

This has nothing to do with H1B.

MAGA won't stop their MAGAying. One this is for sure - sour grapes!

I'm not the PP, but I'll own a MAGA position. Slots in our universities, subsidized by our taxpayers, should go to our students. UMD should establish a cut-off score and all Maryland students above that cut-off should be admitted.

And yes, H1B visas are subject to massive abuse. I know at least three strong CS graduates from this spring who have not found jobs, yet the industry continues to cry out for visas... https://www.finalroundai.com/blog/computer-science-graduates-face-worst-job-market-in-decades#:~:text=Some%20other%20factors%20contributing%20to%20the%20job,this%20field%20because%20you%20enjoy%20solving%20problems

FYI - entry level CS jobs have been offshored for over 10 years. Even if they gut H1s, those entry level jobs aren't coming back.

-someone who's been in tech for over 20 years and has a DC in CS

So why didn't you convince your child to do something else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child and friends did MC2. All got into UMD early decision except one.

They don't have ED.(??)