Are Private Counselors a Bad Idea?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d only pay someone if they will tell my kid exactly how to tailor applications differently for each reach school. They should tell them (1) what each reach school is looking for (values, characteristics) and (2) give them example or ideas on how to implement into the app (whether in ECs, Supp essays, Addtl Info and Future plans).

A good counselor should help them develop their admissions hook or application narrative first and everything else flows from that.

Nope. Many good counselors won’t do that. They focus on finding “fit.”

You will be sorely disappointed if that’s what you think you’re getting. If that’s truly your objective, directly ask if they do that and ask how much time they spending working on developing the hook/narrative. Make sure it’s in the contract.

Why not?
It’s not that hard to take a look at the resume, achievements and accomplishments of the kid at the end of junior year, find the common thread, make major suggestions and make a few tailored suggestions to strengthen if needed?

But PP said "develop their admissions hook or application narrative". Is that the same as "make a few tailored suggestions to strengthen"?

Yes I said that too. It’s the same.

I’m not talking about manufacturing anything. But the reality is that most kids (and most of their parents) don’t know how to “market” themselves well in this app process. They don’t know how to make themselves stand out. And they don’t know why having some sort of admissions “tagline” or condensed narrative is helpful to your kid’s candidacy.

Instead they throw everything under the sun into the application! No strategy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d only pay someone if they will tell my kid exactly how to tailor applications differently for each reach school. They should tell them (1) what each reach school is looking for (values, characteristics) and (2) give them example or ideas on how to implement into the app (whether in ECs, Supp essays, Addtl Info and Future plans).

A good counselor should help them develop their admissions hook or application narrative first and everything else flows from that.

Nope. Many good counselors won’t do that. They focus on finding “fit.”

You will be sorely disappointed if that’s what you think you’re getting. If that’s truly your objective, directly ask if they do that and ask how much time they spending working on developing the hook/narrative. Make sure it’s in the contract.

Why not?
It’s not that hard to take a look at the resume, achievements and accomplishments of the kid at the end of junior year, find the common thread, make major suggestions and make a few tailored suggestions to strengthen if needed?

But PP said "develop their admissions hook or application narrative". Is that the same as "make a few tailored suggestions to strengthen"?

Yes I said that too. It’s the same.

I’m not talking about manufacturing anything. But the reality is that most kids (and most of their parents) don’t know how to “market” themselves well in this app process. They don’t know how to make themselves stand out. And they don’t know why having some sort of admissions “tagline” or condensed narrative is helpful to your kid’s candidacy.

Instead they throw everything under the sun into the application! No strategy.

So, rising senior is meeting with counselor next week. What should we ask the counselor to provide?

If we ask for a guide (tagline concept) tailored to 3-4 schools, what should we do if she says they don’t do that? Fire her and get another one?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve seen one of these guides; a relative paid for last minute (late December) RD application support for one T10 reach from a national consulting firm based in NYC. I have screenshots of the customized guide - incredibly detailed but only for that school.

Who's to say they wouldn't have given that exact same guide for a different school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d only pay someone if they will tell my kid exactly how to tailor applications differently for each reach school. They should tell them (1) what each reach school is looking for (values, characteristics) and (2) give them example or ideas on how to implement into the app (whether in ECs, Supp essays, Addtl Info and Future plans).

A good counselor should help them develop their admissions hook or application narrative first and everything else flows from that.

Nope. Many good counselors won’t do that. They focus on finding “fit.”

You will be sorely disappointed if that’s what you think you’re getting. If that’s truly your objective, directly ask if they do that and ask how much time they spending working on developing the hook/narrative. Make sure it’s in the contract.

Why not?
It’s not that hard to take a look at the resume, achievements and accomplishments of the kid at the end of junior year, find the common thread, make major suggestions and make a few tailored suggestions to strengthen if needed?

But PP said "develop their admissions hook or application narrative". Is that the same as "make a few tailored suggestions to strengthen"?

Yes I said that too. It’s the same.

I’m not talking about manufacturing anything. But the reality is that most kids (and most of their parents) don’t know how to “market” themselves well in this app process. They don’t know how to make themselves stand out. And they don’t know why having some sort of admissions “tagline” or condensed narrative is helpful to your kid’s candidacy.

Instead they throw everything under the sun into the application! No strategy.

So, rising senior is meeting with counselor next week. What should we ask the counselor to provide?

If we ask for a guide (tagline concept) tailored to 3-4 schools, what should we do if she says they don’t do that? Fire her and get another one?

DP. No, don’t fire her. You’ll just join the ranks of other families who pay a substantial amount of money for a service that they didn’t fully receive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d only pay someone if they will tell my kid exactly how to tailor applications differently for each reach school. They should tell them (1) what each reach school is looking for (values, characteristics) and (2) give them example or ideas on how to implement into the app (whether in ECs, Supp essays, Addtl Info and Future plans).

A good counselor should help them develop their admissions hook or application narrative first and everything else flows from that.

Nope. Many good counselors won’t do that. They focus on finding “fit.”

You will be sorely disappointed if that’s what you think you’re getting. If that’s truly your objective, directly ask if they do that and ask how much time they spending working on developing the hook/narrative. Make sure it’s in the contract.

Why not?
It’s not that hard to take a look at the resume, achievements and accomplishments of the kid at the end of junior year, find the common thread, make major suggestions and make a few tailored suggestions to strengthen if needed?

But PP said "develop their admissions hook or application narrative". Is that the same as "make a few tailored suggestions to strengthen"?

Yes I said that too. It’s the same.

I’m not talking about manufacturing anything. But the reality is that most kids (and most of their parents) don’t know how to “market” themselves well in this app process. They don’t know how to make themselves stand out. And they don’t know why having some sort of admissions “tagline” or condensed narrative is helpful to your kid’s candidacy.

Instead they throw everything under the sun into the application! No strategy.

So, rising senior is meeting with counselor next week. What should we ask the counselor to provide?

If we ask for a guide (tagline concept) tailored to 3-4 schools, what should we do if she says they don’t do that? Fire her and get another one?

Ask for her to evaluate your kid’s application strengths and which reach /T20 schools her strengths align well with (and why)? If you already know the 3-4 schools, ask what specific qualities and characteristics each school is looking for and how the application is “scored” in committee.

For example, I learned (on here!) that certain schools weigh ECs more than others. Since my kid was super strong there (and in EC awards), we changed list to focus a bit more on those schools. Similarly if your kid has something that stands out about that, make sure your counselor is telling you which schools are going to value that profile the most in the admissions committee process.

Next, ask about her recent success rate with those schools? Are there particular majors or programs at those schools your kid should research or us best aligned to maximize success?

Ask if she sees a good application narrative or strategy emerging for your kid and what is it? How would she convey the different elements of that narrative inside the various parts of the common app? Does she have example/sample successful and completed apps for you to review to see how the full narrative is revealed?

For certain reach schools ask for strategy surrounding:
- summer/fall visits (and any interviews that may be available)
- Glimpse video scripts (ask to see counselor’s past videos for successful candidates)
- other interview guides /cheat sheets

For new parents here, I highly recommend you listen to this spring’s Lee Coffin‘s AO podcast from Dartmouth. He explicitly explains how your kids “story” or application narrative is critical in the admissions process.

[Anonymous]

This whole thread is a bit frightening. As an UMC striver parent myself with two teen kids, who are not going to ivys but the oldest class of 2024 got into great schools, I’m appalled and frustrated at the amount of money people are paying for the college applications process to elite schools.

Just like there should be no billionaires, having to spends 5-10k+ on an APPLICATION process is ludicrous.

Also I agree it’s the new SAHM UMC MLM scheme. The person I personally know who does this graduated from the same T20 school as me but has a kid at a top 200 and has never worked in admissions or education ever. It’s just preying on parents’ anxieties.

[Anonymous]

Non-DMV parent her with 1 in college and another soon:

The private school moms I know who do this had corporate, finance and law careers. Their own kids got into amazing schools though with their help (Stanford, Yale, Dartmouth, Penn, Northwestern, Duke, Cornell, Vanderbilt)….

Some do ad hoc counseling on hourly rates (250-750/hr) and one charges 1k/hr (!!!) but will give you pages of detail and research. That one has the best record and takes very few clients.

No one is taking on new full service clients for fall bc they have too much business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This whole thread is a bit frightening. As an UMC striver parent myself with two teen kids, who are not going to ivys but the oldest class of 2024 got into great schools, I’m appalled and frustrated at the amount of money people are paying for the college applications process to elite schools.

Just like there should be no billionaires, having to spends 5-10k+ on an APPLICATION process is ludicrous.

Also I agree it’s the new SAHM UMC MLM scheme. The person I personally know who does this graduated from the same T20 school as me but has a kid at a top 200 and has never worked in admissions or education ever. It’s just preying on parents’ anxieties.

I'm also an UMC striver parent with teen kids and I've come around on this subject. I was initially appalled that people would spend this kind of money on counselors, but in my affluent suburban private school, I would guess that about 80% of families hire private counselors for one or more of the following reasons:

- Our public school has one college counselor for 350+ seniors, so who has time to review your kids' EC list or essays or anything? Certainly not the one person.
- Everything in college admissions has changed since we parents attended back in the 1990s. Rankings are all over the place, what used to be a party school is now a grinder school, and you cannot rely on old stereotypes - so how does your kid figure out which school is a good fit for them now? What was once a target or even a likely school for a top school is now a way harder admit, places that used to be considered safeties are practicing yield management and are not a sure thing anymore. None of us are experts just because we are successful and went to really good colleges ourselves.
- Many, many parents have told me that a counselor helped make the whole process way less stressful for them as the parent. For those of us who have kids who don't love hearing their parents nag them about stuff, this itself is worth it.
- We are not billionaires (far from it), and $6-$10k is worth it for the potential investment of close to $400k in college tuition for my kid that will hopefully set them on a good path.

[Anonymous]

PP here - sorry, I meant to say affluent suburban public school.

Also, I am fine with hiring someone who is a SAHM and has been a college counselor for 10+ years. They are going to understand admissions trends, what type of kid from our school gets into which school, which schools are harder/easier admit, etc. and that's important too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d only pay someone if they will tell my kid exactly how to tailor applications differently for each reach school. They should tell them (1) what each reach school is looking for (values, characteristics) and (2) give them example or ideas on how to implement into the app (whether in ECs, Supp essays, Addtl Info and Future plans).

A good counselor should help them develop their admissions hook or application narrative first and everything else flows from that.

Nope. Many good counselors won’t do that. They focus on finding “fit.”

You will be sorely disappointed if that’s what you think you’re getting. If that’s truly your objective, directly ask if they do that and ask how much time they spending working on developing the hook/narrative. Make sure it’s in the contract.

Why not?
It’s not that hard to take a look at the resume, achievements and accomplishments of the kid at the end of junior year, find the common thread, make major suggestions and make a few tailored suggestions to strengthen if needed?

But PP said "develop their admissions hook or application narrative". Is that the same as "make a few tailored suggestions to strengthen"?

Yes I said that too. It’s the same.

I’m not talking about manufacturing anything. But the reality is that most kids (and most of their parents) don’t know how to “market” themselves well in this app process. They don’t know how to make themselves stand out. And they don’t know why having some sort of admissions “tagline” or condensed narrative is helpful to your kid’s candidacy.

Instead they throw everything under the sun into the application! No strategy.

So, rising senior is meeting with counselor next week. What should we ask the counselor to provide?

If we ask for a guide (tagline concept) tailored to 3-4 schools, what should we do if she says they don’t do that? Fire her and get another one?

Ask for her to evaluate your kid’s application strengths and which reach /T20 schools her strengths align well with (and why)? If you already know the 3-4 schools, ask what specific qualities and characteristics each school is looking for and how the application is “scored” in committee.

For example, I learned (on here!) that certain schools weigh ECs more than others. Since my kid was super strong there (and in EC awards), we changed list to focus a bit more on those schools. Similarly if your kid has something that stands out about that, make sure your counselor is telling you which schools are going to value that profile the most in the admissions committee process.

Next, ask about her recent success rate with those schools? Are there particular majors or programs at those schools your kid should research or us best aligned to maximize success?

Ask if she sees a good application narrative or strategy emerging for your kid and what is it? How would she convey the different elements of that narrative inside the various parts of the common app? Does she have example/sample successful and completed apps for you to review to see how the full narrative is revealed?

For certain reach schools ask for strategy surrounding:
- summer/fall visits (and any interviews that may be available)
- Glimpse video scripts (ask to see counselor’s past videos for successful candidates)
- other interview guides /cheat sheets

For new parents here, I highly recommend you listen to this spring’s Lee Coffin‘s AO podcast from Dartmouth. He explicitly explains how your kids “story” or application narrative is critical in the admissions process.

Thanks. This is very helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Non-DMV parent her with 1 in college and another soon:

The private school moms I know who do this had corporate, finance and law careers. Their own kids got into amazing schools though with their help (Stanford, Yale, Dartmouth, Penn, Northwestern, Duke, Cornell, Vanderbilt)….

Some do ad hoc counseling on hourly rates (250-750/hr) and one charges 1k/hr (!!!) but will give you pages of detail and research. That one has the best record and takes very few clients.

No one is taking on new full service clients for fall bc they have too much business.

Ad hoc service vs full service. Which one works better? What is the scope of the full service ? Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This whole thread is a bit frightening. As an UMC striver parent myself with two teen kids, who are not going to ivys but the oldest class of 2024 got into great schools, I’m appalled and frustrated at the amount of money people are paying for the college applications process to elite schools.

Just like there should be no billionaires, having to spends 5-10k+ on an APPLICATION process is ludicrous.

Also I agree it’s the new SAHM UMC MLM scheme. The person I personally know who does this graduated from the same T20 school as me but has a kid at a top 200 and has never worked in admissions or education ever. It’s just preying on parents’ anxieties.

Yeah if you have $10-15 K to burn per kid on applications, go ahead and hire one so that the person you hire can hound your kid to meet deadlines and proof their essays. But honestly, all of this can be done by a parent who is efficient on time management. My husband and I both work full time and were still able to proof essays, give advice, and check in with our DCs to meet timelines. It worked out well for our first two DCs who got into schools they love.

So it probably saves the parents time if they have the extra cash lying around, but it won't change outcomes IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD had a private CC. It was only an ok experience. I feel he pushed my DD to apply ED to a school she had a good chance of getting into RD, that wasn't her top choice but was lower down in her top 5-6.

I think he just wanted to close out as many "wins" as possible rather than work for the best possible outcome for her as a person.

Private CCs don't just work for your DC. They aren't exclusively on call for your family. A good CC is often juggling 20+ different families during any one season to make ends meet.

The VIP families that are paying 3X or 5X their already very high fee is probably getting most of their attention.

DD had similar experience with private CC recommending ED to low reach school although i think this was the recommendation of the company rather than the actual CC, and the list was adjusted after DD spoke to her private CC about applying to more reaches. she ended up getting accepted RD to every school in target, low reach, and high reach (GU, emory, wash u, tufts, cmu, umich) category. for out of reach category, she was accepted (cornell), wl (harvard, rice, hopkins), and rejected (duke, yale, penn, brown, northwestern).

overall, CC was very responsive and helpful with keeping DD on track with deadlines. very helpful in brainstorming common app essay and editing multiple versions. the initial 30+ personal questions were also helpful in structuring supplemental essays. she helped with refining the final list and figuring out ea/ed strategy as well as lots of random questions along the way.

public school CC very nice but hard to personalize with so many students. that being said, the head CC was amazing and offered lots of insight that was particular to their high school based on years of experience. i think combo of private/public CC and my own personal research worked well for DD1. won't pay the 15k fee for DD2 (she is also at private school) but may look into essay editor when time comes. or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD had a private CC. It was only an ok experience. I feel he pushed my DD to apply ED to a school she had a good chance of getting into RD, that wasn't her top choice but was lower down in her top 5-6.

I think he just wanted to close out as many "wins" as possible rather than work for the best possible outcome for her as a person.

Private CCs don't just work for your DC. They aren't exclusively on call for your family. A good CC is often juggling 20+ different families during any one season to make ends meet.

The VIP families that are paying 3X or 5X their already very high fee is probably getting most of their attention.

DD had similar experience with private CC recommending ED to low reach school although i think this was the recommendation of the company rather than the actual CC, and the list was adjusted after DD spoke to her private CC about applying to more reaches. she ended up getting accepted RD to every school in target, low reach, and high reach (GU, emory, wash u, tufts, cmu, umich) category. for out of reach category, she was accepted (cornell), wl (harvard, rice, hopkins), and rejected (duke, yale, penn, brown, northwestern).

overall, CC was very responsive and helpful with keeping DD on track with deadlines. very helpful in brainstorming common app essay and editing multiple versions. the initial 30+ personal questions were also helpful in structuring supplemental essays. she helped with refining the final list and figuring out ea/ed strategy as well as lots of random questions along the way.

public school CC very nice but hard to personalize with so many students. that being said, the head CC was amazing and offered lots of insight that was particular to their high school based on years of experience. i think combo of private/public CC and my own personal research worked well for DD1. won't pay the 15k fee for DD2 (she is also at private school) but may look into essay editor when time comes. or not.

What’s her final ED school?