How do most middle to UMC families pay for college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How the hell are people going to afford med school?

Most med school students have doctor parents, it's sort of a family trade. It is very hard to become an MD from a LMC family. The truly exceptional ones get full ride at Cleveland or NYU, but still need around 40k-60k for postdoc or highly competitive residency matching. I guess they don't think we need a lot of MDs now, if people will die from Medicare and Medicaid cuts.

My niece has doctors as parents and her medical school loans total $500k.

That is a family choice. I know plenty of doctors and others in tech who fully pay for med/law school for their kids. They start by overfunding the 529 with intent that there will be grad school/professsional school at some point

"Family choice," 🤣

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How the hell are people going to afford med school?

Most med school students have doctor parents, it's sort of a family trade. It is very hard to become an MD from a LMC family. The truly exceptional ones get full ride at Cleveland or NYU, but still need around 40k-60k for postdoc or highly competitive residency matching. I guess they don't think we need a lot of MDs now, if people will die from Medicare and Medicaid cuts.

My niece has doctors as parents and her medical school loans total $500k.

That makes no sense.

Of course it makes sense. Medical school is extremely expensive. And not all parents pay for graduate and professional school.

It’s selfish if you have the income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We save for it from the moment our children are born. And frankly, we don't have more children than we think we can pay for. (I'm not trying to be inflammatory or say that you had too many kids. I'm saying I would have had more kids if I had more money.)

This is WILD! I would say the majority of people I grew up with paid for college themselves - yes took out loans, some quite substantial. Exactly zero of them wish they hadn’t been born instead of going into some debt!

Times have changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How the hell are people going to afford med school?

Most med school students have doctor parents, it's sort of a family trade. It is very hard to become an MD from a LMC family. The truly exceptional ones get full ride at Cleveland or NYU, but still need around 40k-60k for postdoc or highly competitive residency matching. I guess they don't think we need a lot of MDs now, if people will die from Medicare and Medicaid cuts.

My niece has doctors as parents and her medical school loans total $500k.

That makes no sense.

Of course it makes sense. Medical school is extremely expensive. And not all parents pay for graduate and professional school.

It’s selfish if you have the income.

And it's not selfish if you do not have the income. You assume that all physicians are very wealthy, and that is a myth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How the hell are people going to afford med school?

Most med school students have doctor parents, it's sort of a family trade. It is very hard to become an MD from a LMC family. The truly exceptional ones get full ride at Cleveland or NYU, but still need around 40k-60k for postdoc or highly competitive residency matching. I guess they don't think we need a lot of MDs now, if people will die from Medicare and Medicaid cuts.

My niece has doctors as parents and her medical school loans total $500k.

That makes no sense.

Of course it makes sense. Medical school is extremely expensive. And not all parents pay for graduate and professional school.

It’s selfish if you have the income.

And it's not selfish if you do not have the income. You assume that all physicians are very wealthy, and that is a myth.

Correct. Even in the DMV the median doctor income is $275k. A nice salary, but achieved at like 40-45…which isn’t a ton of runway to save for undergrad and med school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We save for it from the moment our children are born. And frankly, we don't have more children than we think we can pay for. (I'm not trying to be inflammatory or say that you had too many kids. I'm saying I would have had more kids if I had more money.)

This is WILD! I would say the majority of people I grew up with paid for college themselves - yes took out loans, some quite substantial. Exactly zero of them wish they hadn’t been born instead of going into some debt!

Times have changed.

+1

Let's not forget community college and financial aid. Roughly half of my friends did four years in the military and then earned a bachelor's or masters. Sure, they were a couple years behind, but the military was a good thing for most of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I for the life of me do not understand how this country let college cost be determined by parent income. Middle class and UMC are in no more financial position to pay for college than those making 50-60k a year, unless those MC and UMC forewent houses, cars, etc. - which would undermine a large portion of the economy. The fact that the equity in my home is considered accessible to pay for college is ludicrous. The whole system is broken, very broken.

This is ludicrous, as it relates to UMC families. We are UMC, and have saved more than $300k in various 529s for our rising senior's college tuition and other college expenses. That's sufficient, when including available cashflow, for one kid to attend a private college, or two to attend state schools. And that was not, by any means, the limit to what we could have saved; we stopped dedicated college savings a few years ago and redirected to a taxable account, to provide more flexibility.

It requires planning, and dedication to savings, but UMC families can (and should, in my view) absolutely pay for their children's college. Or are you one of those people who whines that you shoudl get financial aid on your $350k income because you have overspent for decades?

Also, please tell us why why home equity shouldn't be included in financial aid calculations, and if it isn't, how abuses can be curtailed.

You are the exception. You still are not in a position to pay full freight at Gettysburg College or Washington and Lee without an impact on you. But in the latter, a kid’s whose parents make $80k or below goes for free.

The system also does not account for the fact that people make more money as their kids grow up, so capturing the income made the year prior to college is just a snapshot.

Nobody pays full freight for Gettysburg. Literally everyone gets some merit aid.

Then why not just reduce the cost?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We save for it from the moment our children are born. And frankly, we don't have more children than we think we can pay for. (I'm not trying to be inflammatory or say that you had too many kids. I'm saying I would have had more kids if I had more money.)

This is WILD! I would say the majority of people I grew up with paid for college themselves - yes took out loans, some quite substantial. Exactly zero of them wish they hadn’t been born instead of going into some debt!

Times have changed.

+1

Let's not forget community college and financial aid. Roughly half of my friends did four years in the military and then earned a bachelor's or masters. Sure, they were a couple years behind, but the military was a good thing for most of them.

The community college path is also a really good one for a lot of students, especially if you go to a community college that has a strong pipeline and pathway to a good 4 year system. I'm from CA, and a huge number of kids do 2 years in this type of CC and then transfer to UC schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How the hell are people going to afford med school?

Most med school students have doctor parents, it's sort of a family trade. It is very hard to become an MD from a LMC family. The truly exceptional ones get full ride at Cleveland or NYU, but still need around 40k-60k for postdoc or highly competitive residency matching. I guess they don't think we need a lot of MDs now, if people will die from Medicare and Medicaid cuts.

My niece has doctors as parents and her medical school loans total $500k.

That makes no sense.

Of course it makes sense. Medical school is extremely expensive. And not all parents pay for graduate and professional school.

It’s selfish if you have the income.

And it's not selfish if you do not have the income. You assume that all physicians are very wealthy, and that is a myth.

A doctor should be making $150-300k plus so combine that with two parents you can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How the hell are people going to afford med school?

Most med school students have doctor parents, it's sort of a family trade. It is very hard to become an MD from a LMC family. The truly exceptional ones get full ride at Cleveland or NYU, but still need around 40k-60k for postdoc or highly competitive residency matching. I guess they don't think we need a lot of MDs now, if people will die from Medicare and Medicaid cuts.

Most families with med parents, the kids don’t follow. That’s what I have seen. It’s the middle class (and lower class) kids who pursuer it nowaydays. The kids with the med mom/dad are pursuing passion careers. These days, Med work is tougher option - hard to get there and stick with it.

Our DS will be the 3rd generation MD in our family and there are no LMC or even MC students in his program. There are so many fees and extra expenses in addition to the tuition, it's hard to keep up as someone from a modest background. Mine has lots of very well off immigrant kids in his program and pretty much everyone is coming from a family with a medical background. There was a big push to recruit from disadvantaged backgrounds but this profession is the text book example of delayed income, so most cannot afford it. The newer generation of MDs are also getting a concurrent MBA and most plan to run their own clinics, which is a very lucrative gig. Some are getting in business with the private equity shops.
My FIL practiced during Reagan times and it was pure robbery imo, he'd make 2 millions each year. We're heading there again, with very little ethics enforceable in the industry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Start saving in 529 plan at birth. Use a low fee one with good options like Utah. Do as much as you can afford and don't stop. The balance will accumulate to a big number over time. 13 year old has $350k and I'm no longer contributing. Slow and steady does the trick.

This. It’s like everything else in life. Slow and steady. We are UMC. Saved a small amount every month since kids were born. Moved savings from daycare expenses to 529’s for several years for each kid. Threw part of bonuses at 529s. End result is two fully funded 529’s for kids to go whenever they want to school. One is full pay at a T5. We will see what the other one ends up doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH and I first had to pay back student loans, then save for a down payment on a house. Meanwhile we had kids and no family able to help out with infant/toddler care. So it cost us a boatload of money for full time daycare. Any extra money went toward saving for a house and toward our retirement. Then aftercare costs.

Then we finally were able to buy a house and between finishing paying back loans, paying the mortgage, funding our retirement, taking vacations to National Parks where we camped, theye wasn’t anything left to put toward college.

This is the situation for most of our friends who are the first generation to go to college. Our kids are going to state universities.

What is really tough is we counted that when both our kids were in college (2 year overlap) we would get financial aid because since our kids were born FAFSA has always factored in having multiple family members in college. That disappeared this year! So we aren’t sure how we are swinging paying for both kids when fafsa doesn’t factor that in and now student loans are being cut.

My husband and I are both first gen Pell Grant kids, now UMC with family income @ $180k and two kids. We actually disagreed about paying for their college, so I alone started a 529. We started them too late, but it was better than nothing. First kid went to a mid-ranked Jesuit school, as they are known for offering great merit and terrific education in nice community. Second will do the same. With first our costs were about $160k, so @ $40k more than in-state UMD and we thought well worth it for smaller class sizes, dedicated advisors and more personal attention. We refinanced our house when rates dove and set aside some $$$$$$ for college. We also cash flow part of it. Now husband is proud to say, “Best gift we ever gave them - no student loans.” Second is following similar path and got even more merit aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I for the life of me do not understand how this country let college cost be determined by parent income. Middle class and UMC are in no more financial position to pay for college than those making 50-60k a year, unless those MC and UMC forewent houses, cars, etc. - which would undermine a large portion of the economy. The fact that the equity in my home is considered accessible to pay for college is ludicrous. The whole system is broken, very broken.

This is ludicrous, as it relates to UMC families. We are UMC, and have saved more than $300k in various 529s for our rising senior's college tuition and other college expenses. That's sufficient, when including available cashflow, for one kid to attend a private college, or two to attend state schools. And that was not, by any means, the limit to what we could have saved; we stopped dedicated college savings a few years ago and redirected to a taxable account, to provide more flexibility.

It requires planning, and dedication to savings, but UMC families can (and should, in my view) absolutely pay for their children's college. Or are you one of those people who whines that you shoudl get financial aid on your $350k income because you have overspent for decades?

Also, please tell us why why home equity shouldn't be included in financial aid calculations, and if it isn't, how abuses can be curtailed.

You are the exception. You still are not in a position to pay full freight at Gettysburg College or Washington and Lee without an impact on you. But in the latter, a kid’s whose parents make $80k or below goes for free.

The system also does not account for the fact that people make more money as their kids grow up, so capturing the income made the year prior to college is just a snapshot.

Nobody pays full freight for Gettysburg. Literally everyone gets some merit aid.

Then why not just reduce the cost?

It’s the same strategy most colleges employ. They want everyone to feel special because they received a “scholarship” but keep the rack rate very high.

A couple of schools are taking the opposite approach. Bridgewater College in VA decided to reduce tuition 60% and eliminate merit aid for all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I for the life of me do not understand how this country let college cost be determined by parent income. Middle class and UMC are in no more financial position to pay for college than those making 50-60k a year, unless those MC and UMC forewent houses, cars, etc. - which would undermine a large portion of the economy. The fact that the equity in my home is considered accessible to pay for college is ludicrous. The whole system is broken, very broken.

This is ludicrous, as it relates to UMC families. We are UMC, and have saved more than $300k in various 529s for our rising senior's college tuition and other college expenses. That's sufficient, when including available cashflow, for one kid to attend a private college, or two to attend state schools. And that was not, by any means, the limit to what we could have saved; we stopped dedicated college savings a few years ago and redirected to a taxable account, to provide more flexibility.

It requires planning, and dedication to savings, but UMC families can (and should, in my view) absolutely pay for their children's college. Or are you one of those people who whines that you shoudl get financial aid on your $350k income because you have overspent for decades?

Also, please tell us why why home equity shouldn't be included in financial aid calculations, and if it isn't, how abuses can be curtailed.

You are the exception. You still are not in a position to pay full freight at Gettysburg College or Washington and Lee without an impact on you. But in the latter, a kid’s whose parents make $80k or below goes for free.

The system also does not account for the fact that people make more money as their kids grow up, so capturing the income made the year prior to college is just a snapshot.

If we are the exception, it's because other people choose not to prioritize college savings.

Also, you have dramatically shifted the goalposts - from "UMC are in no more financial position to pay for college than those making 50-60k a year" (which is obviously nonsense) to "well, you can't pay for a private college 'without an impact on you.'" Sure. If the measuring stick you are using is that "college is unaffordable if you can't pay for it out of pocket change," then of course virtually no one will satisfy it.

Rather than nit picking my personal situation, please address the larger point - that if UMC families start saving early and stick to it (as another PP said, slow and steady) they will have substantial college savings by the time their kid(s) are college age. How much for any given college depends on a variety of factors, such as market performance, number of children, etc. And as you say, their incomes likely will have risen by then, which means they can pay for some costs out of earnings. Unless, of course, they have increased their lifestyle in conjunction with their larger paychecks - which, again, doesn't make college unaffordable. It just means that they didn't prioritize it.

Still waiting for some principled reason as to why home equity shouldn't be considered in financial aid calculations.

[Anonymous]

Saving in 529 since birth. Typically about $2500 a year. At age 15 with $87k we are now putting in $5k a year. Will cashflow at least an additional $5k a year in college run through the 529 to keep getting the MD state tax benefit.