What to do if your kid is - gasp - well-rounded?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. I've always thought, for well rounded kids, the activities would still have a common focus that is related to your major, no?

For example, if you would like to pursue environmental science, your activities (maybe 8 out of 10) will be somewhat related to environmental science?

Well rounded doesn't mean scattered, right?

Of course, varsity, theater, music do not have to be related to that focus, but can still be listed (that's the 2 out of 10).

I think this worked for well-rounded DD whose theme was working with kids. Varsity athlete and captain for 2 sports and also volunteer soccer coach for kids; pianist for school choir and volunteer piano teacher for elementary students; president of literacy club that tutors kids and fundraises for low income school libraries; also cit and lifeguard at summer camp for 3 summers. She had some pointy research with several publications and tied this to a future career in child psych.

Did great this year with acceptances - Georgetown, Michigan oos, tufts, cmu, wash u, Emory. Going to Cornell off waitlist. Currently on wl at rice, jhu (makes sense as sat just under 1550), and harvard.

You’re in for a rough time when your daughter realizes in two years she’s not remotely interested in the personality she developed to create a college application.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A few questions for the OP:
1. Top grades and stats? ***YES
2. Thoughts on major? Minor? ***OPEN, LOVES MATH, SCIENCE, LANGUAGE, BUSINESS/ECON. BUT NOT A ROBOTICS/MIT/MATH OLYMPIAD PERSON AT ALL. HE ACES MATH CLASSES BUT DOESN’T DO IT OUTSIDE OF SCHOOL
3. Any evidence for entrepreneurship? What kind? ***SCHOOL CLUB, WINNER OF LOCAL COMPETITION, GRANT APPLICATION PENDING
4. Type of environment he wants (big vs. small?) ***FROM A PARENT PERSPECTIVE, HE ISN’T FUSSY AND DOES WELL IN LOTS OF ENVIRONMENTS BUT IMO HE HAS THE MOST IMPACT IN A SMALLER ENVIRONMENT.
5. Private school, right? Did he do any independent research in HS with a faculty member? What topic? YES RIGOROUS PRIVATE, AND NO.
6. Debate all 4 years? Does he have leadership of any school clubs? WILL BE 3 YEARS DEBATE, SCHOOL CLUB LEADERSHIP.
7. Any ideas on career? Has he had any jobs or internships? ONLY VOLUNTEER WORK. HE HAS A UNIQUE VOLUNTEER POSITION FOR HIS MAIN SPORT, AS AN EXAMPLE.

This sounds like a really strong applicant to me but I just want a few more data points before suggesting schools (including some that have been mentioned).

Hard to be too specific without identifying, but maybe the above in CAPS will help enough?

I know a kid like this (sport volunteer hours, a few in school leadership, varsity athlete and top stats) who ED'd from our private to Vanderbilt, was deferred and got in RD. Maybe consider it for an ED2?
Also, Dartmouth was a great suggestion - but check your school's Naviance or SCOIR to see how ED applicants from your HS do generally (and ask your CCO). Both of those schools were previously suggested.

I'd also add Northwestern - given his multiple interests - that is a plus there with the quarter system and how very EASY it is to double major and minor. They also have a great entrepreneurship minor. https://farley.northwestern.edu/academics-res...rgraduate-minor.html Northwestern tracks demonstrated interest, though, so make sure you do some online and in-person tours if you are serious about applying.
Rice is another good one, for all the reasons a PP suggested. Make sure to show Rice some personal interest as well (tours).

But all have different feels. Have you visited any of these schools? Perhaps the better angle is to have your kid do some online tours and schedule some in-person visits, then come back here?

His ED choice will be very important, and many of these schools' track demonstrated interest - they don't want to be a top stats kid's backup - so they'll auto-reject or WL your kid if you haven't engaged with the school in person and online. I'd get on that today, if he hasn't already.

You’re paying for a small private school. Use that resource and have the schools college counselor tell you where kids like your DS have been accepted.

Naviance data is fine, but it doesn’t tell you much about the individual applicants. You need to talk to someone who can give you more specific information - “Schools X, Y, and Z love kids like your DS who’ve applied from our school over the years. He totally fits the profile of what they’re looking for from here.”

This kind of attention and institutional knowledge is what you’re paying for. Make the most of it!

Why this rich, private school parent feels the need to seek out college advice in DCUM instead of talking to the college counselor she paid for is beyond me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. I've always thought, for well rounded kids, the activities would still have a common focus that is related to your major, no?

For example, if you would like to pursue environmental science, your activities (maybe 8 out of 10) will be somewhat related to environmental science?

Well rounded doesn't mean scattered, right?

Of course, varsity, theater, music do not have to be related to that focus, but can still be listed (that's the 2 out of 10).

I think this worked for well-rounded DD whose theme was working with kids. Varsity athlete and captain for 2 sports and also volunteer soccer coach for kids; pianist for school choir and volunteer piano teacher for elementary students; president of literacy club that tutors kids and fundraises for low income school libraries; also cit and lifeguard at summer camp for 3 summers. She had some pointy research with several publications and tied this to a future career in child psych.

Did great this year with acceptances - Georgetown, Michigan oos, tufts, cmu, wash u, Emory. Going to Cornell off waitlist. Currently on wl at rice, jhu (makes sense as sat just under 1550), and harvard.

You’re in for a rough time when your daughter realizes in two years she’s not remotely interested in the personality she developed to create a college application.

Agreed. Why do people do this to their kids? Kids change a lot while they’re in high school and college as they try different things and and are exposed to new things. That’s the “normal” trajectory of things. Many kids who were uncertain or insecure in high school blossom and find their way in college. For others, that happens on the job or in grad/professional school. For some, it happens in middle age!! I’m putting my money on the quiet B student who never gets any official recognition for anything and goes off to a so-called mid-tier college. I’ll bet that person will have better coping skills and be a nicer person for not having been at the top of anything, not having crafted a narrative and for not having chased status.

[Anonymous]

Above poster- no, that’s not me and that’s not my kid. Just from what I saw in my high school and my kid’s school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. I've always thought, for well rounded kids, the activities would still have a common focus that is related to your major, no?

For example, if you would like to pursue environmental science, your activities (maybe 8 out of 10) will be somewhat related to environmental science?

Well rounded doesn't mean scattered, right?

Of course, varsity, theater, music do not have to be related to that focus, but can still be listed (that's the 2 out of 10).

I think this worked for well-rounded DD whose theme was working with kids. Varsity athlete and captain for 2 sports and also volunteer soccer coach for kids; pianist for school choir and volunteer piano teacher for elementary students; president of literacy club that tutors kids and fundraises for low income school libraries; also cit and lifeguard at summer camp for 3 summers. She had some pointy research with several publications and tied this to a future career in child psych.

Did great this year with acceptances - Georgetown, Michigan oos, tufts, cmu, wash u, Emory. Going to Cornell off waitlist. Currently on wl at rice, jhu (makes sense as sat just under 1550), and harvard.

You’re in for a rough time when your daughter realizes in two years she’s not remotely interested in the personality she developed to create a college application.

It’s super normal for kids to change interest in college. More than half switched majors after first year. Why would PP “in for a rough time “?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A few questions for the OP:
1. Top grades and stats? ***YES
2. Thoughts on major? Minor? ***OPEN, LOVES MATH, SCIENCE, LANGUAGE, BUSINESS/ECON. BUT NOT A ROBOTICS/MIT/MATH OLYMPIAD PERSON AT ALL. HE ACES MATH CLASSES BUT DOESN’T DO IT OUTSIDE OF SCHOOL
3. Any evidence for entrepreneurship? What kind? ***SCHOOL CLUB, WINNER OF LOCAL COMPETITION, GRANT APPLICATION PENDING
4. Type of environment he wants (big vs. small?) ***FROM A PARENT PERSPECTIVE, HE ISN’T FUSSY AND DOES WELL IN LOTS OF ENVIRONMENTS BUT IMO HE HAS THE MOST IMPACT IN A SMALLER ENVIRONMENT.
5. Private school, right? Did he do any independent research in HS with a faculty member? What topic? YES RIGOROUS PRIVATE, AND NO.
6. Debate all 4 years? Does he have leadership of any school clubs? WILL BE 3 YEARS DEBATE, SCHOOL CLUB LEADERSHIP.
7. Any ideas on career? Has he had any jobs or internships? ONLY VOLUNTEER WORK. HE HAS A UNIQUE VOLUNTEER POSITION FOR HIS MAIN SPORT, AS AN EXAMPLE.

This sounds like a really strong applicant to me but I just want a few more data points before suggesting schools (including some that have been mentioned).

Hard to be too specific without identifying, but maybe the above in CAPS will help enough?

I know a kid like this (sport volunteer hours, a few in school leadership, varsity athlete and top stats) who ED'd from our private to Vanderbilt, was deferred and got in RD. Maybe consider it for an ED2?
Also, Dartmouth was a great suggestion - but check your school's Naviance or SCOIR to see how ED applicants from your HS do generally (and ask your CCO). Both of those schools were previously suggested.

I'd also add Northwestern - given his multiple interests - that is a plus there with the quarter system and how very EASY it is to double major and minor. They also have a great entrepreneurship minor. https://farley.northwestern.edu/academics-res...rgraduate-minor.html Northwestern tracks demonstrated interest, though, so make sure you do some online and in-person tours if you are serious about applying.
Rice is another good one, for all the reasons a PP suggested. Make sure to show Rice some personal interest as well (tours).

But all have different feels. Have you visited any of these schools? Perhaps the better angle is to have your kid do some online tours and schedule some in-person visits, then come back here?

His ED choice will be very important, and many of these schools' track demonstrated interest - they don't want to be a top stats kid's backup - so they'll auto-reject or WL your kid if you haven't engaged with the school in person and online. I'd get on that today, if he hasn't already.

You’re paying for a small private school. Use that resource and have the schools college counselor tell you where kids like your DS have been accepted.

Naviance data is fine, but it doesn’t tell you much about the individual applicants. You need to talk to someone who can give you more specific information - “Schools X, Y, and Z love kids like your DS who’ve applied from our school over the years. He totally fits the profile of what they’re looking for from here.”

This kind of attention and institutional knowledge is what you’re paying for. Make the most of it!

Why this rich, private school parent feels the need to seek out college advice in DCUM instead of talking to the college counselor she paid for is beyond me.

Happy to explain. We haven’t had a meeting with the assigned counselor yet. Never change, internet stranger <3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A few questions for the OP:
1. Top grades and stats? ***YES
2. Thoughts on major? Minor? ***OPEN, LOVES MATH, SCIENCE, LANGUAGE, BUSINESS/ECON. BUT NOT A ROBOTICS/MIT/MATH OLYMPIAD PERSON AT ALL. HE ACES MATH CLASSES BUT DOESN’T DO IT OUTSIDE OF SCHOOL
3. Any evidence for entrepreneurship? What kind? ***SCHOOL CLUB, WINNER OF LOCAL COMPETITION, GRANT APPLICATION PENDING
4. Type of environment he wants (big vs. small?) ***FROM A PARENT PERSPECTIVE, HE ISN’T FUSSY AND DOES WELL IN LOTS OF ENVIRONMENTS BUT IMO HE HAS THE MOST IMPACT IN A SMALLER ENVIRONMENT.
5. Private school, right? Did he do any independent research in HS with a faculty member? What topic? YES RIGOROUS PRIVATE, AND NO.
6. Debate all 4 years? Does he have leadership of any school clubs? WILL BE 3 YEARS DEBATE, SCHOOL CLUB LEADERSHIP.
7. Any ideas on career? Has he had any jobs or internships? ONLY VOLUNTEER WORK. HE HAS A UNIQUE VOLUNTEER POSITION FOR HIS MAIN SPORT, AS AN EXAMPLE.

This sounds like a really strong applicant to me but I just want a few more data points before suggesting schools (including some that have been mentioned).

Hard to be too specific without identifying, but maybe the above in CAPS will help enough?

I know a kid like this (sport volunteer hours, a few in school leadership, varsity athlete and top stats) who ED'd from our private to Vanderbilt, was deferred and got in RD. Maybe consider it for an ED2?
Also, Dartmouth was a great suggestion - but check your school's Naviance or SCOIR to see how ED applicants from your HS do generally (and ask your CCO). Both of those schools were previously suggested.

I'd also add Northwestern - given his multiple interests - that is a plus there with the quarter system and how very EASY it is to double major and minor. They also have a great entrepreneurship minor. https://farley.northwestern.edu/academics-res...rgraduate-minor.html Northwestern tracks demonstrated interest, though, so make sure you do some online and in-person tours if you are serious about applying.
Rice is another good one, for all the reasons a PP suggested. Make sure to show Rice some personal interest as well (tours).

But all have different feels. Have you visited any of these schools? Perhaps the better angle is to have your kid do some online tours and schedule some in-person visits, then come back here?

His ED choice will be very important, and many of these schools' track demonstrated interest - they don't want to be a top stats kid's backup - so they'll auto-reject or WL your kid if you haven't engaged with the school in person and online. I'd get on that today, if he hasn't already.

You’re paying for a small private school. Use that resource and have the schools college counselor tell you where kids like your DS have been accepted.

Naviance data is fine, but it doesn’t tell you much about the individual applicants. You need to talk to someone who can give you more specific information - “Schools X, Y, and Z love kids like your DS who’ve applied from our school over the years. He totally fits the profile of what they’re looking for from here.”

This kind of attention and institutional knowledge is what you’re paying for. Make the most of it!

Why this rich, private school parent feels the need to seek out college advice in DCUM instead of talking to the college counselor she paid for is beyond me.

Naw. Better than Khaki pants.

[Anonymous]

Simple solution to all this? Send your well-rounded “regular” or “average excellent” kid to the college at arts and sciences at their state flagship. One size fits all. None of the stress that comes with gaming the narrative or system for some niche major in order to get a leg up in elite private college admissions. And I’ll bet your kid will be happy and thrive there with other well-rounded kids who had normal high school activities and experiences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. I've always thought, for well rounded kids, the activities would still have a common focus that is related to your major, no?

For example, if you would like to pursue environmental science, your activities (maybe 8 out of 10) will be somewhat related to environmental science?

Well rounded doesn't mean scattered, right?

Of course, varsity, theater, music do not have to be related to that focus, but can still be listed (that's the 2 out of 10).

I think this worked for well-rounded DD whose theme was working with kids. Varsity athlete and captain for 2 sports and also volunteer soccer coach for kids; pianist for school choir and volunteer piano teacher for elementary students; president of literacy club that tutors kids and fundraises for low income school libraries; also cit and lifeguard at summer camp for 3 summers. She had some pointy research with several publications and tied this to a future career in child psych.

Did great this year with acceptances - Georgetown, Michigan oos, tufts, cmu, wash u, Emory. Going to Cornell off waitlist. Currently on wl at rice, jhu (makes sense as sat just under 1550), and harvard.

You’re in for a rough time when your daughter realizes in two years she’s not remotely interested in the personality she developed to create a college application.

It’s super normal for kids to change interest in college. More than half switched majors after first year. Why would PP “in for a rough time “?

Yes, the personality one simulates for admission purposes has nothing to do with anything outside of that limited context; why on Earth would it have any impact post-admission? It is merely shed like a cocoon, as it is of no further value. It has accomplished its purpose

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You just have to invent a fake “pointy” narrative. It’s not that hard, just play up things that are consistent with the invented pointy narrative, and downplay those things that aren’t, making them more a hint of spice/experimentation that merely confirmed that your DC has known since they were 14–ideally even earlier— that they were destined to be [academic area X] and that no matter how much they were exposed to various temptations, nothing distracted from this single minded mission focus. It’s an utterly cynical game that nobody should feel bad about playing; none of us created this perverse system.

+1

Colleges are just encouraging you to lie, lie, and lie some more.

Give them what they want.

They ask you to write about why you want only their college, and why their college is a good fit for you? Give it them.

Interesting essays? Give it to them, no need for it to be based on anything related to you. Anything you have found interesting in something you read about, write it up as your own. Bonus points if you can hire someone to write it up for you. Just make sure they can write it in a 17 year old's voice.

Volunteering? Have someone do it for you.

About gender, since it is fluid, make it up, that is an easy way to tick the diversity box.

They are begging to be fooled, give it to them and they eat it up.

PP from above: I don’t fully agree with this, one should never lie or cheat. There really is no need. The artful arrangement of truth suffices. But yes, I’ve told my children whenever they confront an emotionally intrusive essay prompt, they should not share anything about themselves they don’t want to and can answer from a different perspective if they so choose.

[Anonymous]

Life will reward your child for being well rounded. College admissions will not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. I've always thought, for well rounded kids, the activities would still have a common focus that is related to your major, no?

For example, if you would like to pursue environmental science, your activities (maybe 8 out of 10) will be somewhat related to environmental science?

Well rounded doesn't mean scattered, right?

Of course, varsity, theater, music do not have to be related to that focus, but can still be listed (that's the 2 out of 10).

I think this worked for well-rounded DD whose theme was working with kids. Varsity athlete and captain for 2 sports and also volunteer soccer coach for kids; pianist for school choir and volunteer piano teacher for elementary students; president of literacy club that tutors kids and fundraises for low income school libraries; also cit and lifeguard at summer camp for 3 summers. She had some pointy research with several publications and tied this to a future career in child psych.

Did great this year with acceptances - Georgetown, Michigan oos, tufts, cmu, wash u, Emory. Going to Cornell off waitlist. Currently on wl at rice, jhu (makes sense as sat just under 1550), and harvard.

You’re in for a rough time when your daughter realizes in two years she’s not remotely interested in the personality she developed to create a college application.

It’s super normal for kids to change interest in college. More than half switched majors after first year. Why would PP “in for a rough time “?

Yes, the personality one simulates for admission purposes has nothing to do with anything outside of that limited context; why on Earth would it have any impact post-admission? It is merely shed like a cocoon, as it is of no further value. It has accomplished its purpose

Read what you wrote one more time. Perhaps it's not totally meaningless, perhaps there is a transformation occurring inside that "cocoon".

Think about it as a vehicle for personal growth. That vehicle may remain relevant when a teenager becomes a young adult (50% do), or it may become totally irrelevant (the other half).

[Anonymous]

^^ I know you want clay pot mowing lawns running through sprinklers and waiting tables for your DC, and that's fine, you picked a different vehicle. but don't judge others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ I know you want clay pot mowing lawns running through sprinklers and waiting tables for your DC, and that's fine, you picked a different vehicle. but don't judge others.

A different vehicle?? A generation ago, that pointiness/nonprofit/published book/lab research/recruited-Div III-athlete vehicles weren’t even a thing for almost all of of us who applied to selective colleges. We had the same activities as our peers who went the state school route. We ran through sprinklers, played on the same Little league or school teams, did the same National Honor society/science fair clubs, etc. We all relied on our high school counselors (or ourselves). The current state of College admissions has really created a new class of applicants who have differentiated themselves in very curated, packaged, almost artificial ways. The judgment comes from the potential psychological and social fallout from too much curating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ I know you want clay pot mowing lawns running through sprinklers and waiting tables for your DC, and that's fine, you picked a different vehicle. but don't judge others.

A different vehicle?? A generation ago, that pointiness/nonprofit/published book/lab research/recruited-Div III-athlete vehicles weren’t even a thing for almost all of of us who applied to selective colleges. We had the same activities as our peers who went the state school route. We ran through sprinklers, played on the same Little league or school teams, did the same National Honor society/science fair clubs, etc. We all relied on our high school counselors (or ourselves). The current state of College admissions has really created a new class of applicants who have differentiated themselves in very curated, packaged, almost artificial ways. The judgment comes from the potential psychological and social fallout from too much curating.

OP. As you might be able to tell from my original post, I think there is value to a natural progression of interests and that kids should come out of high school with gas left in the tank. Which is what was driving the original question. Appreciate all the input.