Fairfax Co. teachers can’t afford to live near where they work, report finds

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was a young, brand new teacher, I had a roommate. And, yes, it took a large portion of my income. This was decades ago.

When I moved to DC after law school to work at DOJ I had a roommate. In an apartment. That is all I could afford for years. And we lawyers didn't cry about it.

Brave! How’s your salary now?

A hell of a lot higher than that of a teacher. For good reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Life is about choices. Get another career if the one you’re in isn’t lucrative enough to support where you live.

So it would be fine with you if every teacher took your advice? Or would a better solution be to…raise teacher salaries so we can keep teachers in schools?

It isn't a job that pays a lot. PP is right -- if you don't like your income, get another career.

You didn’t answer my question. Is it ok w you if every teacher in every school takes your advice and quits bc of the pay? That’s the society you’d rather live in: one where no one wants to be a teacher rather than one where we actually value and support teachers?

That isn't going to happen. It's a stupid question. So yeah, fine ... let every teacher quit; I don't care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was a young, brand new teacher, I had a roommate. And, yes, it took a large portion of my income. This was decades ago.

When I moved to DC after law school to work at DOJ I had a roommate. In an apartment. That is all I could afford for years. And we lawyers didn't cry about it.

Who is crying about it? WTOP?

Teachers. They complain about their income All.The.Time. Even when they make more than people with more education and responsibility who don't have months of time off every year.

The months of time off is not paid.

Ok. And yet FCPS teachers are making between 60k and and over 100k salaries ... with just a bachelor's degree. And making more than that with advanced degrees. For what you are highlighting as essentially part-time work.

Yeah -- they definitely need to stop whining. They are paid way too much for not working all year round.

Please show me your data. The vast majority of teachers do not make anywhere close to “over 100k” salaries. Stop making things up.

No one is making anything up -- the pay scales are public: https://www.fcps.edu/careers/salary-and-benefits/salary-scales

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what? Neither can I. It took me an hour and 44 mins to get to work this morning. And I have significantly more education than most teachers.

71% of FCPS teachers hold at least a Masters degree. Many have more than one advanced degree.

I’m curious… what’s your education background?

Np. They don't need it. I'm all for paying teachers more, but they should be paid more because it's a hard job, not because they have an unnecessary masters degree.

That is not true. My undergrad degree was in the subject area that I teach and my masters degree was in education. My masters degree is how I learned how to be a teacher. So it was very necessary. Many middle and high school teachers I know are similar. We didn’t study education in undergrad eirher because we went to small LAC that didn’t offer a bachelors in education or bc we didn’t know at that time that we wanted to be teachers.

-high school history teacher.

Ok. Then we should start requiring a master's in education for all teachers.

Many states do! Generally you have 5 years after you start teaching to get the masters.

The issue is that you legally can’t teach public school without education coursework (they’ve made exceptions with provisional licenses for this severe shortage, but even then you have to be done in 3 years).

If you major in education for undergrad, great, maybe (probably) the masters is silly. If you major in math or art or chemistry like my colleagues and I did though, those don’t automatically translate into being a good teacher. The education courses, while certainly not a mental challenge like my math degree, were really necessary to prepare me to teach. How do you structure a 90 minute lesson to capture multiple ability levels, engage kids who hate your subject, check for understanding multiple times, and assess learning? How do you take a list of 65 poorly worded state standards and order them/structure them/pace them out to insure no one gets left behind when you have no curriculum? How do you build an entire 90 minute lesson (or 6) on “the student will transform rational functions” when that’s all you have to go on—there are no resources? My degree in math didn’t teach me any of that.

I wish the education classes had been all taught by current teachers. They were professors who had been out of the classroom 10 years so that was challenging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was a young, brand new teacher, I had a roommate. And, yes, it took a large portion of my income. This was decades ago.

When I moved to DC after law school to work at DOJ I had a roommate. In an apartment. That is all I could afford for years. And we lawyers didn't cry about it.

Who is crying about it? WTOP?

Teachers. They complain about their income All.The.Time. Even when they make more than people with more education and responsibility who don't have months of time off every year.

The months of time off is not paid.

Ok. And yet FCPS teachers are making between 60k and and over 100k salaries ... with just a bachelor's degree. And making more than that with advanced degrees. For what you are highlighting as essentially part-time work.

Yeah -- they definitely need to stop whining. They are paid way too much for not working all year round.

Please show me your data. The vast majority of teachers do not make anywhere close to “over 100k” salaries. Stop making things up.

No one is making anything up -- the pay scales are public: https://www.fcps.edu/careers/salary-and-benefits/salary-scales

I’m curious to see the distribution of experience for teachers. I suspect it’s pretty right skewed with the veteran teachers being in the minority, but I’ve never seen data on it.

To make 100k+ on the current Payscale with all the step freezes:
Bachelors - 26 years of experience
Masters - 18 years of experience

That seems like a milestone the majority of teachers don’t make. Maybe I’m wrong? I’d love to see the number of employees in each of the pay scale cells.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A 20 year career making six figures with a BA in History, having summers off, with decent benefits is not some impoverished existence many make it out to be. I think teachers should be paid more across the country, and maybe they could start a bit higher, but for what they do and where they can go, it’s a pretty good life.

I think a big issue at times can be student loans weighing down early career teachers for too long waiting to move to a reasonable pay band. If you are going to be a teacher, and I get many people don’t always know at the time, but go to CNU, not UVA.

Which teacher do you know making 6 figures? I’ve been teaching over 10 years and make nowhere near 6 figures and don’t know any teachers (excepting those who became admin) who make that much.

This is a thread about FCPS teachers. Take a look at the pay scale. Plenty of teachers making 6 figures.

Teachers CAN make 6 figures, after 15 years of work with a Masters degree. And teachers CAN enjoy a pension… if they last.

But many don’t make it 15 years. Around 44% of teachers don’t last more than 4 years. Nationwide, the average teaching career is 14 years.

If you haven’t figured it out yet: teaching is a hard job. There’s good reason many teachers don’t make much: they choose to leave for jobs that pay more for less stress. It seems those unpaid summers aren’t enough of a perk to keep them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So this may be an unpopular opinion and I have many family members who are teachers and agree with me so this is in no way meant to not show support for teachers, but it is a reality.

Teacher contracts are based on a 195-day contract which is 39 weeks. This is 75% of a full year.

Conversely, I am a small govt worker and my contract is based off a 52 week calendar. With more than 25 years of experience, I make about 2/3 of what a teacher with the same level of experience/education makes and receive about 1/2 of the market rate adjustment raises that teachers in FCPS receive each year.

So as a fellow government employee working in the same jurisdiction, I work more weeks, more hours (my job also requires me to work some nights and weekends) and get paid less and receive lower raises than teachers.

Teaching has become a very thankless job and many people like myself acknowledge the challenges and frustrations of being a teacher, but let's stop pretending that teachers are on an island when it comes to being underpaid and underappreciated.

While teachers are only in the building 195 days, they are working more than that. I would say with all the overtime teachers have grading, planning, going to professional development and attending school events it actually is about the same.

This area as a whole is too expensive for most people unless you have two working families. So I agree that many professionals are being priced out of this area but please know teachers definitely work more than 195 days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So this may be an unpopular opinion and I have many family members who are teachers and agree with me so this is in no way meant to not show support for teachers, but it is a reality.

Teacher contracts are based on a 195-day contract which is 39 weeks. This is 75% of a full year.

Conversely, I am a small govt worker and my contract is based off a 52 week calendar. With more than 25 years of experience, I make about 2/3 of what a teacher with the same level of experience/education makes and receive about 1/2 of the market rate adjustment raises that teachers in FCPS receive each year.

So as a fellow government employee working in the same jurisdiction, I work more weeks, more hours (my job also requires me to work some nights and weekends) and get paid less and receive lower raises than teachers.

Teaching has become a very thankless job and many people like myself acknowledge the challenges and frustrations of being a teacher, but let's stop pretending that teachers are on an island when it comes to being underpaid and underappreciated.

While teachers are only in the building 195 days, they are working more than that. I would say with all the overtime teachers have grading, planning, going to professional development and attending school events it actually is about the same.

This area as a whole is too expensive for most people unless you have two working families. So I agree that many professionals are being priced out of this area but please know teachers definitely work more than 195 days.

I contributed some numbers up thread that nobody commented on.

I work about 65 hours a week, putting in 2,600 hours(ish) in 10 months.

195 days of work without overtime amounts to 1,560 hours.

That difference of 1,040 hours is actually 26 full 40-hour weeks of overtime I’m cramming into my 10 months.

Summer is my one break all year, when I recharge before another 10-month marathon begins.

[Anonymous]

Reading back through this thread it seems there are more people complaining about teachers complaining, and non-teachers complaining about teacher salaries than there are teachers complaining.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reading back through this thread it seems there are more people complaining about teachers complaining, and non-teachers complaining about teacher salaries than there are teachers complaining.

I noticed that, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A 20 year career making six figures with a BA in History, having summers off, with decent benefits is not some impoverished existence many make it out to be. I think teachers should be paid more across the country, and maybe they could start a bit higher, but for what they do and where they can go, it’s a pretty good life.

I think a big issue at times can be student loans weighing down early career teachers for too long waiting to move to a reasonable pay band. If you are going to be a teacher, and I get many people don’t always know at the time, but go to CNU, not UVA.

Which teacher do you know making 6 figures? I’ve been teaching over 10 years and make nowhere near 6 figures and don’t know any teachers (excepting those who became admin) who make that much.

This is a thread about FCPS teachers. Take a look at the pay scale. Plenty of teachers making 6 figures.

Teachers CAN make 6 figures, after 15 years of work with a Masters degree. And teachers CAN enjoy a pension… if they last.

But many don’t make it 15 years. Around 44% of teachers don’t last more than 4 years. Nationwide, the average teaching career is 14 years.

If you haven’t figured it out yet: teaching is a hard job. There’s good reason many teachers don’t make much: they choose to leave for jobs that pay more for less stress. It seems those unpaid summers aren’t enough of a perk to keep them.

I agree but adding that it's after 18 years with a master's degree in FCPS that a teacher would break six figures. Step 15 is for 18 years of experience, thanks to all of the step freezes over the years that make the pay scale a bit misleading. 18 years in teaching is a long time, and as PP noted, most burn out long before that.

[Anonymous]

Many teachers have the problem of paying high rent or mortgages in cities. This is across America, not just Fairfax. They end up sharing apartments or get married. They also are only getting paid for 9 months of work, so, of course, it looks lower than your annual salary.

[Anonymous]

Public school teachers are not the lowest paid profession in Fairfax County. There are many folks who don't earn 6 figures, like my DH. We need tax relief. But we all know that is a dream. Nobody cares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A 20 year career making six figures with a BA in History, having summers off, with decent benefits is not some impoverished existence many make it out to be. I think teachers should be paid more across the country, and maybe they could start a bit higher, but for what they do and where they can go, it’s a pretty good life.

I think a big issue at times can be student loans weighing down early career teachers for too long waiting to move to a reasonable pay band. If you are going to be a teacher, and I get many people don’t always know at the time, but go to CNU, not UVA.

Which teacher do you know making 6 figures? I’ve been teaching over 10 years and make nowhere near 6 figures and don’t know any teachers (excepting those who became admin) who make that much.

This is a thread about FCPS teachers. Take a look at the pay scale. Plenty of teachers making 6 figures.

Teachers CAN make 6 figures, after 15 years of work with a Masters degree. And teachers CAN enjoy a pension… if they last.

But many don’t make it 15 years. Around 44% of teachers don’t last more than 4 years. Nationwide, the average teaching career is 14 years.

If you haven’t figured it out yet: teaching is a hard job. There’s good reason many teachers don’t make much: they choose to leave for jobs that pay more for less stress. It seems those unpaid summers aren’t enough of a perk to keep them.

I agree but adding that it's after 18 years with a master's degree in FCPS that a teacher would break six figures. Step 15 is for 18 years of experience, thanks to all of the step freezes over the years that make the pay scale a bit misleading. 18 years in teaching is a long time, and as PP noted, most burn out long before that.

Making $100,000 at 40 years old is quite respectable. More than enough to make a good living in Fairfax county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A 20 year career making six figures with a BA in History, having summers off, with decent benefits is not some impoverished existence many make it out to be. I think teachers should be paid more across the country, and maybe they could start a bit higher, but for what they do and where they can go, it’s a pretty good life.

I think a big issue at times can be student loans weighing down early career teachers for too long waiting to move to a reasonable pay band. If you are going to be a teacher, and I get many people don’t always know at the time, but go to CNU, not UVA.

Which teacher do you know making 6 figures? I’ve been teaching over 10 years and make nowhere near 6 figures and don’t know any teachers (excepting those who became admin) who make that much.

This is a thread about FCPS teachers. Take a look at the pay scale. Plenty of teachers making 6 figures.

Teachers CAN make 6 figures, after 15 years of work with a Masters degree. And teachers CAN enjoy a pension… if they last.

But many don’t make it 15 years. Around 44% of teachers don’t last more than 4 years. Nationwide, the average teaching career is 14 years.

If you haven’t figured it out yet: teaching is a hard job. There’s good reason many teachers don’t make much: they choose to leave for jobs that pay more for less stress. It seems those unpaid summers aren’t enough of a perk to keep them.

I agree but adding that it's after 18 years with a master's degree in FCPS that a teacher would break six figures. Step 15 is for 18 years of experience, thanks to all of the step freezes over the years that make the pay scale a bit misleading. 18 years in teaching is a long time, and as PP noted, most burn out long before that.

Making $100,000 at 40 years old is quite respectable. More than enough to make a good living in Fairfax county.

DP. That’s if you MAKE IT to 40 years making $100,000. Most teachers crash and burn out long before that.

Most teachers are making 60-70K while pulling ridiculous, stressful hours for 10 months each year. And then they rest for 2 unpaid months, or they get a summer job to make life more affordable.