What percentage of AAP kids are truly genius level gifted

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AAP is not about gifted. Really it only leap frogs the students one year ahead in math. It is reliant on parents supplementing to do so. They don’t teach or drill the basic math facts anymore so that is on you. But it’s really nothing that great in AAP. They have to teach the Social Studies curriculum in all classes. And the same holds true with Science. The math is really the only accelerated subject and even it’s not so terrific for all the frantic mess that we hear and see on DCUM. Not even all the AAP students make it into Algebra by 7th grade yet they were suppose to be so accelerated for 4 grades. Even some AAP students make it to Algebra by 7th grade and then get move back a grade. So, the program isn’t great. You are better off doing your own creative and fun supplemental work. You can create your own learning lab at home that’s leaps and bounds more creative and impactful than this program.

So here's some history about gifted education and FCPS--My oldest child, who is now out of college, tested into in the FCPS GT program in 3rd grade, which became AAP when she was in 5th grade. The GT program was a lively and creative space that my kid was thriving in. Lots of project-based learning, lots of chances for students to explore interests, lots of differentiation. Obviously there's no way for me to know what aspects of that were system-wide vs. my kid's specific teachers, but I remember friends with kids at other GT centers reporting similar impressions at the time. The change from GT to AAP in terms of the classroom experience and curriculum was pretty huge and I don't think families were well-prepared for it.

What we heard from her teachers over those last two years of elementary school was that about half the students in the class, my kid included, found themselves struggling in an advanced math program that they probably would not have tested into. And many of the GT elements that had made up the curriculum were replaced by a focus on that accelerated math program. As a parent it was upsetting to see that change happen in real time to my child and I considered pulling her in 6th grade because of it, but ultimately left her in AAP for social reasons. In middle school we were able to have her take regular 7th grade math while staying with AAP in the other subjects, which was a much better fit for her.

I think it's a shame that FCPS has such a bias towards STEM and puts all its eggs in that basket. I'm a product of a gifted education in the 80s and I know that a lot of my longterm academic and professional success comes from some of those early learning experiences. Math is important and for kids who are strong in that area, it's good there is a track to meet their needs. But it shouldn't be the only track available for students to get more than the traditional classroom has to offer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I volunteer in the classroom/at school a lot. We are at a center school on the eastern side of the county. Our pyramid is not high SES (compared to the western part of the county), but the neighborhood that houses the center school is one of the more well-off neighborhoods in the pyramid (again—this is comparatively).

The difference between the Gen Ed kids and the AAP kids at our school is night and day. High ESL, behavioral issues, and a lot of blank stares. Maybe the Gen Ed curriculum is fine, but if it’s being presented in a classroom of kids who aren’t equipped to learn, no one is going to learn it.

At our school, the “average/bright” neighborhood kids need access to the AAP classroom to escape what’s happening in Gen Ed. Those kids who are denied full time AAP end up going to the local Catholic school, which makes the difference between AAP and Gen Ed even more stark.

I think in a higher SES area you have fewer disruptions in a Gen Ed classroom, which means there is likely not a huge difference between Gen Ed kids with LIII pull-outs and full-time LIV kids.

On the western side of the county, OP’s child (whose math score is low) would be fine in Gen Ed with a pull-out. On the eastern side, I would push hard for AAP.

This isn’t the case for all higher SES schools. Our western part of the county very high SES school’s general education classroom doesn’t come close to the AAP class. It is particularly bad for high achieving students who are not in AAP. They basically get ignored so that the teacher can focus on the kids who are behind. The school doesn’t do anything for children who are ahead in the general classroom. Basically, if your student is scoring 98th/99th percentile (and even lower than that in the 90s) they will learn very little in the general education classroom because the teachers and aids focus all of their time on the other kids in the class. Your child will likely have a lot of time to help other children in the class, work on educational apps on the computer or free reading time.

This might not be the case in all schools, but I would bet most of these students educational needs aren’t being met in the general ed classroom.

[Anonymous]

Lots of problems with this AAP segregation going on at FCPS. Very sad. All this commotion and not much coming out of it but bad reviews, kids who are not fully advanced, parents who were snookered into thinking it was a gifted program, kids feeling put down by another class indirectly and directly, and parents paying for supplementary materials. They need to revamp FCPS. Reid, you can do better than that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our teacher spent 25 minutes telling us how our daughter is very bright but she’s not gifted. She gave examples that I don’t think were a proper interpretation of gifted vs just a bright child. It was pretty upsetting. We clearly have a different impression vs the classroom teacher and yes maybe biased but we definitely know our DD better than the teacher. Nnat 99% cogat I believe was 134. Iready reading 99% iready math 89%. In pool but did not get it but I did appeal.

I thought part of AAP was the potential for high achievement. I’m disappointed in the teachers impression. Are all kids truly geniuses?

Your child is very bright and that's something. They might be a genius in some sense as well and your teacher might be wrong. I don't think the teacher's necessarily get to know the children that well.

Who cares what the teacher thinks. Good luck with your appeal!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of problems with this AAP segregation going on at FCPS. Very sad. All this commotion and not much coming out of it but bad reviews, kids who are not fully advanced, parents who were snookered into thinking it was a gifted program, kids feeling put down by another class indirectly and directly, and parents paying for supplementary materials. They need to revamp FCPS. Reid, you can do better than that!

Ok but what is the solution?

I agree that people should not think of this as a gifted program. It's not. And I say this as a parent of a child who got in with a WISC above 140. Child is not a genius. Child is bright.

I also agree that there's a lot of nonsense that results, but that's because parents are crazy and whether there's AAP or not that's not going to change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of problems with this AAP segregation going on at FCPS. Very sad. All this commotion and not much coming out of it but bad reviews, kids who are not fully advanced, parents who were snookered into thinking it was a gifted program, kids feeling put down by another class indirectly and directly, and parents paying for supplementary materials. They need to revamp FCPS. Reid, you can do better than that!

Ok but what is the solution?

I agree that people should not think of this as a gifted program. It's not. And I say this as a parent of a child who got in with a WISC above 140. Child is not a genius. Child is bright.

I also agree that there's a lot of nonsense that results, but that's because parents are crazy and whether there's AAP or not that's not going to change.

There are two solutions.

1) Tracking students so that kids end up in a class with peers. The kids in the class(es) that are behind grade level should be in a class with 2 Teachers who can work with the kids to help them get to grade level. Kids who are on the cusp should be moved up a level, so that kid who is close to being on grade level should be in the grade level class because it does motivate kids to work harder when they want to be on the level of the kids they are with. That is not going to work well when you are 2 grade levels behind and there are kids a full grade level up in your class, that makes you feel discouraged. But being in a position that you can get to the same level as the kids in your class with a bit more work can be helpful.

2) Have break out classes for Advanced Math, Advanced LA, Advanced Science, and Advanced Social Studies. If the grades are all on a similar time schedule, then you can have the kids in Advanced Math move to the Advanced Math class and the kids with regular level math shift to that class and the kids who need math support shift to that class. Some kids will end up in all of the advanced classes, some kids will end up in a few, and some kids will not end up in any. But making space for kids to be strong in specific areas means that you avoid the "smart class" vs everyone else mentality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of problems with this AAP segregation going on at FCPS. Very sad. All this commotion and not much coming out of it but bad reviews, kids who are not fully advanced, parents who were snookered into thinking it was a gifted program, kids feeling put down by another class indirectly and directly, and parents paying for supplementary materials. They need to revamp FCPS. Reid, you can do better than that!

Ok but what is the solution?

I agree that people should not think of this as a gifted program. It's not. And I say this as a parent of a child who got in with a WISC above 140. Child is not a genius. Child is bright.

I also agree that there's a lot of nonsense that results, but that's because parents are crazy and whether there's AAP or not that's not going to change.

There are two solutions.

1) Tracking students so that kids end up in a class with peers. The kids in the class(es) that are behind grade level should be in a class with 2 Teachers who can work with the kids to help them get to grade level. Kids who are on the cusp should be moved up a level, so that kid who is close to being on grade level should be in the grade level class because it does motivate kids to work harder when they want to be on the level of the kids they are with. That is not going to work well when you are 2 grade levels behind and there are kids a full grade level up in your class, that makes you feel discouraged. But being in a position that you can get to the same level as the kids in your class with a bit more work can be helpful.

2) Have break out classes for Advanced Math, Advanced LA, Advanced Science, and Advanced Social Studies. If the grades are all on a similar time schedule, then you can have the kids in Advanced Math move to the Advanced Math class and the kids with regular level math shift to that class and the kids who need math support shift to that class. Some kids will end up in all of the advanced classes, some kids will end up in a few, and some kids will not end up in any. But making space for kids to be strong in specific areas means that you avoid the "smart class" vs everyone else mentality.

Which school systems of similar size to FCPS have either of these approaches been implemented successfully?

[Anonymous]

My 99th percentile, 134 COGAT, 129 NNAT child was not accepted into AAP - TWICE. Because her teachers think she talks too much in class (we are working on this, trust me) and don't like her. I've appealed, but there's no getting past the HOPE score. The teachers have FULL control over AAP admission nowadays. This is not how it used to be with the GBRS. HOPE is so much more subjective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Back in the 80’s in FCPS, a school would maybe have 4-5 kids in the whole school do gt programs. There was one elementary school for them. Now a school can have half the population in the program. Why they changed the name of the program. It used to be called gifted and talented. These kids now in aap can be neither gifted or talented , just well coached to get in the program.

Money, it's about money. It's so wealthy parents don't send their kids to private school.

[Anonymous]

Can anyone shed light on the new accelerated math program?

When my oldest (now in 5th) started, they were pacing advanced math at about 1.5x the speed of GedEd. So they are on-pace to be taking Algebra by 7th grade. I thought that was how it always worked.

However, my youngest was meant to be in advanced math (as a Level II kid in 3rd grade) this year, but they didn't do any pullouts for her and she's on pace with the rest of her gen-ed class. Her teachers told me that they weren't doing math pullouts anymore, and she'd get "differentiated instruction" in her normal classroom (which amounted to extra worksheets and literally nothing more.)

Next year she'll be in full-time Level IV, but the AART teacher tells me that class didn't accelerate math last year either. Supposedly they'll start accelerating this year and my kid will still end up a year ahead by the end of 6th. Is that true? Is that the new plan?

Both my kids are in the same base school, not a center. I was told by the AART that transferring to the center would not change the math pacing for youngest, as all schools are doing the same reset this year. I'm guessing because of the new curriculum they introduced this year?

In all honesty, the AART teacher has been hard to work with and unhelpful, so I am not even sure she's giving me the full picture.