2025 & 2026 donut hole families

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am the PP poster - I agree - I am saying I am NOT a donut hole family - and that peers who are whining about colllege at that level are ridiculous.

Who is whining about college at 700K? Haven't seen it.

Donut hole depends on number of kids. 300K for 1 kid is a lot different than 300K for 3 or 4.

3-4 kids vs. 1 is a lifestyle choice.

And if you choose the 3-4, then you need to scale back your lifestyle or get a better paying jobs. You chose to bring those kids into the world, so it really is your job as parents to provide the basics, and that IMO includes access to 4 year college without major debt and scaling back your home and vacations to do so. Because yes, if you have 4 kids, they likely are not all getting a car to drive when they turn 16, where someone with only 1-2 kids, might be able to do that---we provided that, the kid at driving age got one of our "older cars" and we as parents got a new car, then 4 years later the other parent got a new car and the younger kid got "their car to drive in HS/college".
heck, we chose to have our kids at least 4 years apart. One of many reasons was so that we'd likely only have one in college at same time, making it easier to cash flow part of it if needed (but we saved enough before hand). I have 2 friends who have 3 kids in about 40-45 months (no multiples). And man is the thought of college and paying for it stressful. But that is the choice they made, you don't accidentally get pregnant, especially when you have a 4-5 month old, you can make easy choices to prevent that and space your kids out to 2-3 years if you want.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:What is a donut hole family? High income nut no savings?

Too rich to get aid. But not rich enough to easily pay $90k a year, especially with multiple kids. Usually live in high cost of living areas.

And also made the choice not to save but instead increase their lifestyle as their income increased. Because even in a "hCOLA" if you have been making $250K for the last 5 years, you could have chosen to save $20-30K/year, and likely for more than 5 years

This doesn’t get you anywhere close to affording private colleges at full cost for one kid, let alone two or more.

And of course you’ll say, “just go in-state public!!” Which, sure, but that’s kind of the point of the donut hole. It’s not that you can’t afford *any* college, just that you are priced out of some of them while others above and below are not.

Actually it does. We could "afford it" now as we paid off our house and we live way under our means as we haven't changed our lifestyle as our income goes up. Would it be smart, no. Does my child want to go to a school thats $90K, no, but some are $60K. If you made lifestyle choices that are different, then don't complain of what you cannot afford when you choose a differnet path. While you vacationed, we saved. While you go out to $100-300 meals, we go to $60-80 meals.

No, it doesn’t. A kid starting school at good private colleges next year is looking at a total COA of close to $400k over the next four years. Five years of saving $25-30k does not get you there at all. You would need at least 10 years at that amount and with a real return of 7%. And that would just cover one kid.

So when you choose to have a kid, that should be a consideration you make. We didn't start until we were 30, we paid off our own loans, bought a home and had an emergency fund. We didn't really take vacations until we were 35+. Most vacations were drive somewhere for 4-5 days and stay in a cheap hotel/rental. We made it a priority to save for our future and for our kids college from the time they were born. When you start early, you don't need to save as much, as you have time for it to grow (tax free in a 529) So while we increased our income over time, we never increased our lifestyle, and we didn't have kids until we could afford them (save for our retirement and some for college).

But you are complaining that you cannot afford the Top 25-30 schools that are priced at $90K and won't get any "financial aid". That is like me complaining nobody is giving me a $100K BMW at a discount. THat's not how life works. If I value cars and want to drive that, I act like an adult, save for the BMW and adjust my budget accordingly to meet the needs of "what I value most". Or if I'm like 99% of people, I realize it's a dream and that I can get everywhere I need to go safely in a $40K Honda/Toyota and save my $$.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:What is a donut hole family? High income nut no savings?

Too rich to get aid. But not rich enough to easily pay $90k a year, especially with multiple kids. Usually live in high cost of living areas.

Many of us have lower incomes and in high cost of living areas. It’s lifestyle choices. It’s insane someone in a million dollar house making what many do feel entitled to aid when the rest of us live poorly to save.

“Living poorly” to be able to be full pay when you would otherwise receive aid is a lifestyle choice. And not a particularly good one.

There is no guarantee for aid. We will be retirement age when ours go to college. One parent has health issues. It’s very much a good choice as I'm not doing loans.

Then you’re pretty much a donut hole family. Yet you’re on here railing against the concept for some reason.

DP: because the PP is smart enough to realize how PRivleged they are, and they don't expect someone to just "give them money for college".
You are literally arguing about 30 or so schools that cost that much that even given Financial aide up to the "determined level of need". Outside of those schools, most do NOT meet financial need. But many outside will give your top student a lot of merit making that school ranked 80th very affordable.

Also, the odds of your kid getting admission to one of those T30 schools that "meet financial need" is extremely small.

So your efforts would be better focused on schools where your kid can gain admission AND you can afford. Just like everything else in life. There are 2000+ schools where your kid can get a good college education, so don't focus on the Top 30 and complain you "make too much to get enough aid" when you make in the Top 5-7% in the country. It's a problem many people would love to have

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:What is definition of donut hole income for DMV? Just curious - I am guessing HHI $200k-$500k?

I have $700k HHI and 3 kids in private; i do. Ot consider myself donut hole - it sucks to have to pay $90k/yr for college but i feel lucky to be able to afford it. It is confusing when i hear peers talk about donut hole, because we are so so lucky to have what we have and i can’t complain.

150-225 is donut hole. maybe 250. not 700 lol

+1 at someone with $500k+ whining about paying for college. Especially when they are already comfortably paying for private school. That's probably costing you something like $50-$60k, right? So paying $90k/yr for college is the same hit to your pre-college budget as the public school family paying for their in state public college. And I should hope at the income level you have a lot more slack in your budget to pay for it. If not, you must be really bad with money.

I cannot imagine paying $40K+ for private K-12 (or even HS alone) and not having enough saved for college for the kids.

Exactly. It’s about lifestyle choices. There are good reasons to send a kid to private with SN or learning disabilities but for most kids, tutors are just fine.

Well, imagine it. You can keep on paying the $50K, but $95K would be a stretch. Would it have been better to save that $50K every year to be able to pay the $95K? Who can say?

But it is a CHOICE they had and they made. Now you get to live with it. Many of us wouldn't have (didn't) make that choice and can now pay the $90K

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am the PP poster - I agree - I am saying I am NOT a donut hole family - and that peers who are whining about colllege at that level are ridiculous.

Who is whining about college at 700K? Haven't seen it.

Donut hole depends on number of kids. 300K for 1 kid is a lot different than 300K for 3 or 4.

3-4 kids vs. 1 is a lifestyle choice.

Exactly. Don't have kids you can't pay for. I only feel for those who have unexpected twins. Everyone else should keep their pants on. Not my job to subsidize your libido.

Couldn’t this he said about a lot
of things, though? Not my job to subsidize a SAHM, to subsidize someone who doesn’t work to their full earning capacity, to subsidize someone who chooses a higher COL area, to subsidize someone who has a car loan, to subsidize someone who chose a non-lucrative major in college so can’t afford for their kids to be full pay now, etc…..

Nobody has ever subsidized me as a SAHP---please explain how that has happened?
Nobody has ever subsidized us because we live in a HCOLA, we are just forced to budget better and make more choices than if we lived in Nebraska.


And nope, we don't subsidize kids to go to college. Schools like Harvard get to decide who they admit and who they will give aid to. That is not subsidizing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think there's a case for no FA at all.

These schools are a lifestyle product themselves. You can take a loan out to buy your fancy car .. I mean college. Or not. The rest involves some level of moral hazard.

it is up to each school how they want to subsidize an incoming student. Many smartly (and I agree) realize it is to ouradvantage as society to educate kids from poorer/rural areas and give them more opportunities. That greatly increases their chances of excelling in life.
The fact that you making $200-250K begrudges it and are mad that someone with so little in life is getting some small assistance to totally change their lives is strange. Firstly, most poor/rural/inner city kids don't go to HYPSM, they go to CC or the local state U, or some local private that gave them merit. For them, just going anywhere to college is a really big deal. And most dont' even realize that a few (20 or so) tippy top schools might actually give them aid.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:What is definition of donut hole income for DMV? Just curious - I am guessing HHI $200k-$500k?

I have $700k HHI and 3 kids in private; i do. Ot consider myself donut hole - it sucks to have to pay $90k/yr for college but i feel lucky to be able to afford it. It is confusing when i hear peers talk about donut hole, because we are so so lucky to have what we have and i can’t complain.

150-225 is donut hole. maybe 250. not 700 lol

+1 at someone with $500k+ whining about paying for college. Especially when they are already comfortably paying for private school. That's probably costing you something like $50-$60k, right? So paying $90k/yr for college is the same hit to your pre-college budget as the public school family paying for their in state public college. And I should hope at the income level you have a lot more slack in your budget to pay for it. If not, you must be really bad with money.

I cannot imagine paying $40K+ for private K-12 (or even HS alone) and not having enough saved for college for the kids.

Exactly. It’s about lifestyle choices. There are good reasons to send a kid to private with SN or learning disabilities but for most kids, tutors are just fine.

Well, imagine it. You can keep on paying the $50K, but $95K would be a stretch. Would it have been better to save that $50K every year to be able to pay the $95K? Who can say?

Its better to make sure you can pay for college and grad school prior to choosing a private baring SN. Or, don't complain.

1000%

Sad part is, most could afford Private k-12 or Private HS and then 90K college, they just refuse to cut back elsewhere and save. I watch people like that waste $2K+/month on dining out and Starbucks for their families. And that's all I see without even trying. And they are often the people whose 8 yo was wearing Lulu and Uggs (real ones)---you know things the kids will grow out of in 3-6 months at that age. So many opportunities to save, and yes some are small, but it's a mindset and when you "must have the best of everything" despite not being able to afford it all, you end up not being able to afford something, and sometimes they realize that for the large items, like an extra $40K/year/kid for the elite colleges.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:What is a donut hole family? High income nut no savings?

Too rich to get aid. But not rich enough to easily pay $90k a year, especially with multiple kids. Usually live in high cost of living areas.

And also made the choice not to save but instead increase their lifestyle as their income increased. Because even in a "hCOLA" if you have been making $250K for the last 5 years, you could have chosen to save $20-30K/year, and likely for more than 5 years

This doesn’t get you anywhere close to affording private colleges at full cost for one kid, let alone two or more.

And of course you’ll say, “just go in-state public!!” Which, sure, but that’s kind of the point of the donut hole. It’s not that you can’t afford *any* college, just that you are priced out of some of them while others above and below are not.

Actually it does. We could "afford it" now as we paid off our house and we live way under our means as we haven't changed our lifestyle as our income goes up. Would it be smart, no. Does my child want to go to a school thats $90K, no, but some are $60K. If you made lifestyle choices that are different, then don't complain of what you cannot afford when you choose a differnet path. While you vacationed, we saved. While you go out to $100-300 meals, we go to $60-80 meals.

No, it doesn’t. A kid starting school at good private colleges next year is looking at a total COA of close to $400k over the next four years. Five years of saving $25-30k does not get you there at all. You would need at least 10 years at that amount and with a real return of 7%. And that would just cover one kid.

Yes, it does. We started saving since birth. Those vacations you took, well we didn't and that money got put away. When you bought your expensive house in the "good" school district, we stayed in our small little house and paid it off... We saved about half that but stopped as we can pull from retirement.

Someone being fiscally responsible and showing restraint. Amen. I wish there were more people like you.

Spending 400k on an undergraduate degree after living super frugal ist not fiscally responsible. Going to a good state school is or lower ranked private with merit aid.

Yes, it is fiscally responsible. They saw something they valued and want for their kids/family. They chose to make choices so they could save and afford it. Now is it for everyone---probably not, but it's not like their kids were forced to beg on the street corners so they could save. They simply lived in a smaller house that wasn't in the tippy top neighborhood. So they lived in a 2K sq ft 25 yo home with decent schools and take vacations of only $3-4K once per year, drove affordable cars for 10-12 year and replaced when necessary. While you chose to buy a $1.4M, 5K sq ft newer home in a top school district, drive a $75K car for both spouses that you replace very 4-5 years and get the kids a nice car at 16, and travel to Europe every summer and a Caribbean/hawaii beach vacation at least once per year.
They chose to live a good lifestyle they can afford. You chose to blow thru your money for a luxury lifestyle and now are complaining you don't have enough for the colleges you want.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:What is a donut hole family? High income nut no savings?

Too rich to get aid. But not rich enough to easily pay $90k a year, especially with multiple kids. Usually live in high cost of living areas.

And also made the choice not to save but instead increase their lifestyle as their income increased. Because even in a "hCOLA" if you have been making $250K for the last 5 years, you could have chosen to save $20-30K/year, and likely for more than 5 years

This doesn’t get you anywhere close to affording private colleges at full cost for one kid, let alone two or more.

And of course you’ll say, “just go in-state public!!” Which, sure, but that’s kind of the point of the donut hole. It’s not that you can’t afford *any* college, just that you are priced out of some of them while others above and below are not.

Actually it does. We could "afford it" now as we paid off our house and we live way under our means as we haven't changed our lifestyle as our income goes up. Would it be smart, no. Does my child want to go to a school thats $90K, no, but some are $60K. If you made lifestyle choices that are different, then don't complain of what you cannot afford when you choose a differnet path. While you vacationed, we saved. While you go out to $100-300 meals, we go to $60-80 meals.

No, it doesn’t. A kid starting school at good private colleges next year is looking at a total COA of close to $400k over the next four years. Five years of saving $25-30k does not get you there at all. You would need at least 10 years at that amount and with a real return of 7%. And that would just cover one kid.

Yes, it does. We started saving since birth. Those vacations you took, well we didn't and that money got put away. When you bought your expensive house in the "good" school district, we stayed in our small little house and paid it off... We saved about half that but stopped as we can pull from retirement.

No, it literally doesn’t. Saving $25-30k a year for the last five years before college does not get you to $400k in real terms even with the average market return.

You’re trying to lecture people about financial responsibility and you don’t even understand basic compound interest or math.

Of course I do. You don't start saving the last five years. You start saving at birth. We started at birth.

Because smart parents know they want their kids to attend college and college is ever more expensive each year, so you have to save and the sooner you start the less you need to save

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:What is a donut hole family? High income nut no savings?

Too rich to get aid. But not rich enough to easily pay $90k a year, especially with multiple kids. Usually live in high cost of living areas.

And also made the choice not to save but instead increase their lifestyle as their income increased. Because even in a "hCOLA" if you have been making $250K for the last 5 years, you could have chosen to save $20-30K/year, and likely for more than 5 years

This doesn’t get you anywhere close to affording private colleges at full cost for one kid, let alone two or more.

And of course you’ll say, “just go in-state public!!” Which, sure, but that’s kind of the point of the donut hole. It’s not that you can’t afford *any* college, just that you are priced out of some of them while others above and below are not.

Actually it does. We could "afford it" now as we paid off our house and we live way under our means as we haven't changed our lifestyle as our income goes up. Would it be smart, no. Does my child want to go to a school thats $90K, no, but some are $60K. If you made lifestyle choices that are different, then don't complain of what you cannot afford when you choose a differnet path. While you vacationed, we saved. While you go out to $100-300 meals, we go to $60-80 meals.

No, it doesn’t. A kid starting school at good private colleges next year is looking at a total COA of close to $400k over the next four years. Five years of saving $25-30k does not get you there at all. You would need at least 10 years at that amount and with a real return of 7%. And that would just cover one kid.

So when you choose to have a kid, that should be a consideration you make. We didn't start until we were 30, we paid off our own loans, bought a home and had an emergency fund. We didn't really take vacations until we were 35+. Most vacations were drive somewhere for 4-5 days and stay in a cheap hotel/rental. We made it a priority to save for our future and for our kids college from the time they were born. When you start early, you don't need to save as much, as you have time for it to grow (tax free in a 529) So while we increased our income over time, we never increased our lifestyle, and we didn't have kids until we could afford them (save for our retirement and some for college).

But you are complaining that you cannot afford the Top 25-30 schools that are priced at $90K and won't get any "financial aid". That is like me complaining nobody is giving me a $100K BMW at a discount. THat's not how life works. If I value cars and want to drive that, I act like an adult, save for the BMW and adjust my budget accordingly to meet the needs of "what I value most". Or if I'm like 99% of people, I realize it's a dream and that I can get everywhere I need to go safely in a $40K Honda/Toyota and save my $$.

I’m not complaining about anything. Just pointing out that the other PP’s math doesn’t math. No matter how many Motel 6s you stay at.

It’s funny, all of these comments about lifestyle choices. It’s also a lifestyle choice to make better educational and professional decisions so you don’t have to live like a pauper to afford college. But some of you who are obsessed with lifestyle choices never seem to mention that one.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think there's a case for no FA at all.

These schools are a lifestyle product themselves. You can take a loan out to buy your fancy car .. I mean college. Or not. The rest involves some level of moral hazard.

Nobody on this board truly believes college is an “optional lifestyle choice”, get outta here with that bs.

Elite private universities are. They are a privilege, not a right.

And they’ve decided to extend that privilege to people who could not otherwise afford it.

And that is their choice. Recognizing that poor kids will benefit the most from getting some aid to attend college is NOT a bad thing. The bad thing is someone who is in the top 5-10% of the USA who is pissed at the poor kid who grew up with no privilege and in bad conditions compared to your kids thinking "this is SO UNFAIR"

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am the PP poster - I agree - I am saying I am NOT a donut hole family - and that peers who are whining about colllege at that level are ridiculous.

Who is whining about college at 700K? Haven't seen it.

Donut hole depends on number of kids. 300K for 1 kid is a lot different than 300K for 3 or 4.

3-4 kids vs. 1 is a lifestyle choice.

Exactly. Don't have kids you can't pay for. I only feel for those who have unexpected twins. Everyone else should keep their pants on. Not my job to subsidize your libido.

Couldn’t this he said about a lot
of things, though? Not my job to subsidize a SAHM, to subsidize someone who doesn’t work to their full earning capacity, to subsidize someone who chooses a higher COL area, to subsidize someone who has a car loan, to subsidize someone who chose a non-lucrative major in college so can’t afford for their kids to be full pay now, etc…..

Nobody has ever subsidized me as a SAHP---please explain how that has happened?
Nobody has ever subsidized us because we live in a HCOLA, we are just forced to budget better and make more choices than if we lived in Nebraska.


And nope, we don't subsidize kids to go to college. Schools like Harvard get to decide who they admit and who they will give aid to. That is not subsidizing.

There are lots of reasons why people are SAHP's. No one is subsidizing them. And, full earning potential. Do you want teachers, babysitters, day care workers, social workers, police, and other helping professions to quit and earn more? Then who takes care of your kids? We need those in lower paying jobs and yes, they should get aid.

As a SAHP, we have gotten zero help. I stayed home as I could not afford child care on my salary. I stayed home as my MIL became ill and she/we could not afford to pay for help. I stayed home later because of my serious health issues. We have never gotten anything from anyone.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think there's a case for no FA at all.

These schools are a lifestyle product themselves. You can take a loan out to buy your fancy car .. I mean college. Or not. The rest involves some level of moral hazard.

Nobody on this board truly believes college is an “optional lifestyle choice”, get outta here with that bs.

Elite private universities are. They are a privilege, not a right.

And they’ve decided to extend that privilege to people who could not otherwise afford it.

And that is their choice. Recognizing that poor kids will benefit the most from getting some aid to attend college is NOT a bad thing. The bad thing is someone who is in the top 5-10% of the USA who is pissed at the poor kid who grew up with no privilege and in bad conditions compared to your kids thinking "this is SO UNFAIR"

The kids deserving of that aid are the poor kids. And, not poor as in living in a million dollar house.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:What is a donut hole family? High income nut no savings?

Too rich to get aid. But not rich enough to easily pay $90k a year, especially with multiple kids. Usually live in high cost of living areas.

And also made the choice not to save but instead increase their lifestyle as their income increased. Because even in a "hCOLA" if you have been making $250K for the last 5 years, you could have chosen to save $20-30K/year, and likely for more than 5 years

This doesn’t get you anywhere close to affording private colleges at full cost for one kid, let alone two or more.

And of course you’ll say, “just go in-state public!!” Which, sure, but that’s kind of the point of the donut hole. It’s not that you can’t afford *any* college, just that you are priced out of some of them while others above and below are not.

Since when are you "entitled" to attend any college you want? Just like anything in life, you only purchase what you can afford. There are literally 95% of colleges that will be "affordable to you" So yes, do in-state or privates that give merit. Don't expect others to pay for your education just because.

So you are "priced out of some". I am a fan of BMWs, but until I can afford to buy one and be financially sound, I'm not spending $75K+ on a vehicle when I can buy a Honda that is more reliable and does the same job for $35-40K. Just because I want it doesn't mean I'm entitled to get it unless I find a way to afford it. It's not your job or anyone else's job to get me a luxury car.



And most likely if someone went from $250K-700K, they could afford to save a lot more than $30K/year. They could probably have been saving $30K/kid/year. And yes, if you make even $250K, you should plan to save to pay for your kid's college because you are in the top 7-8%. Or if you don't want to pay, then you search merit. You can still do that, and get college down to $20-25K or less very easily (if your kid would be able to get into most of the $90K schools that actually meet financial needs, your kid will get amazing merit at most schools in the 40-100+ range.

Where did I say anyone was entitled to attend? The donut hole is just a definition (that many of you don’t seem to grasp), not a morality statement.

Some of you are funny. You read things in comments that aren’t even there. It’s quite telling.

it's a "morality statement" because most of you complaining are annoyed that someone making less than you is getting aid and you are not, from a very small, very elite group of schools. The person getting full aid or close to full aid is not "just making 175K", they are likely living with under $75-80K as a family. So you too could have chosen to manage with only $75-80K as your family income for 18 years and you too might just get a full FA package to Harvard. But I suspect you realize nobody wants to give up the privileges and perks in life from living with 200-250K has meant for the last 18 years for you and your kids.

You are mad someone is "getting something" and you are not. Yet fail to recognize how much more challenging their lives have been

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:What is definition of donut hole income for DMV? Just curious - I am guessing HHI $200k-$500k?

I have $700k HHI and 3 kids in private; i do. Ot consider myself donut hole - it sucks to have to pay $90k/yr for college but i feel lucky to be able to afford it. It is confusing when i hear peers talk about donut hole, because we are so so lucky to have what we have and i can’t complain.

150-225 is donut hole. maybe 250. not 700 lol

+1 at someone with $500k+ whining about paying for college. Especially when they are already comfortably paying for private school. That's probably costing you something like $50-$60k, right? So paying $90k/yr for college is the same hit to your pre-college budget as the public school family paying for their in state public college. And I should hope at the income level you have a lot more slack in your budget to pay for it. If not, you must be really bad with money.

I cannot imagine paying $40K+ for private K-12 (or even HS alone) and not having enough saved for college for the kids.

Exactly. It’s about lifestyle choices. There are good reasons to send a kid to private with SN or learning disabilities but for most kids, tutors are just fine.

Well, imagine it. You can keep on paying the $50K, but $95K would be a stretch. Would it have been better to save that $50K every year to be able to pay the $95K? Who can say?

Its better to make sure you can pay for college and grad school prior to choosing a private baring SN. Or, don't complain.

1000%

Sad part is, most could afford Private k-12 or Private HS and then 90K college, they just refuse to cut back elsewhere and save. I watch people like that waste $2K+/month on dining out and Starbucks for their families. And that's all I see without even trying. And they are often the people whose 8 yo was wearing Lulu and Uggs (real ones)---you know things the kids will grow out of in 3-6 months at that age. So many opportunities to save, and yes some are small, but it's a mindset and when you "must have the best of everything" despite not being able to afford it all, you end up not being able to afford something, and sometimes they realize that for the large items, like an extra $40K/year/kid for the elite colleges.

We do splurge on eating out but we don't go expensive. I never go to Starbucks, I pack everyone's lunches and we aren't buying designer clothing. We haven't been on vacation since before covid. We also splurge on kids activities.