Top 50 schools where full pay makes a difference

[Anonymous]

Wash U announced Need Blind in 2021. Making big push for it in 2024-2025

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

My full pay kid was waitlisted at a school where she was at the 75% for grades and test scores. Didn’t seem to help her at all.

What was the Acceptance Rate? If it's Sub 10%, it's still a crap shoot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A T20 AO (retired/now in private college counseling practice) told me that AOs do look "favorably" on certain markers of wealth and that it's inevitable that a large number of successful applicants will always be wealthy and full pay. After all, half the class is full pay. How do they do that each year? Think about it.

Much has been written about this non-novel idea. Wealthy students have advantages that make them - by far - stronger applicants. It's a self-selecting sample. You claim an AO told you but it is important to note that not one former AO - including the many who have written tell-all books - supports this claim.

"Need blind" is not the same as "need ignorant". There are plenty of “tells” or markers throughout an application that can point pretty firmly in one direction or the other as to whether the person likely applied or would need for FA (including parents' education, professions, and type of school) that don't even get past the biographical info.

Yes, the privileged class are easy to spot, especially on paper. That does not mean that there is a sneaky conspiracy to admit full pay over equally qualified students with need. You should not spread this misinformation as it may discourage students from applying or asking for financial aid when it will have no affect on their admissions decision.

No sneaky conspiracy at all. Not intended for FA families at all. I don't pretend to know anything about it.

For wealthy families, there's more than meets the eye in admissions. And, I don't pretend to understand EM. But it is rather interesting that the % of full pay stays around the same each year. Maybe WL do the heavy lifting there? Who knows. I'm sure they have a sophisticated way to do this so we never figure it out.

My takeaway: Just don't hide the wealth - we certainly aren't. And it worked out well for Kid1 into T20.

The bold part explicitly suggests a sneaky conspiracy. Need blind colleges are need blind in admissions as stated. Please stop with the misinformation.

Need-Blind Admissions Has Always Been a Lie: https://www.ivycoach.com/the-ivy-coach-blog/college-admissions/the-need-blind-admissions-lie-exposed/
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1287452
https://www.thedp.com/article/2022/01/upenn-not-need-blind-admissions

But this price-fixing cartel has been discussed here before.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/19ekf70/top_schools_are_not_really_need_blind/

Bev Taylor? That’s the best link you have? She was never an admissions officer and her “article” has not one bit of evidence. She needs her customers, some of whom pay 7 figures, to believe that lie.

The lawsuit is classic post hoc ergo propter hoc thinking. It the discovery shows evidence - as the race lawsuit did - then we can all change our tune. But there is no evidence that need blind admissions are not, in fact, need blind as stated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are 3 categories of students:

1) Kids who apply for aid
2) Kids who are full pay
3) Kids who are potential big donors.

A school can be need blind and still preferentially admit kids from category #3.

Don't kid yourself, they know your zip code and what HS you attended, they know if you are truly full pay or not

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 3 categories of students:

1) Kids who apply for aid
2) Kids who are full pay
3) Kids who are potential big donors.

A school can be need blind and still preferentially admit kids from category #3.

Don't kid yourself, they know your zip code and what HS you attended, they know if you are truly full pay or not

Agree. And they know more about you than zip code and HS. Its why their admissions offices are so well funded with hundreds of employees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A T20 AO (retired/now in private college counseling practice) told me that AOs do look "favorably" on certain markers of wealth and that it's inevitable that a large number of successful applicants will always be wealthy and full pay. After all, half the class is full pay. How do they do that each year? Think about it.

Much has been written about this non-novel idea. Wealthy students have advantages that make them - by far - stronger applicants. It's a self-selecting sample. You claim an AO told you but it is important to note that not one former AO - including the many who have written tell-all books - supports this claim.

"Need blind" is not the same as "need ignorant". There are plenty of “tells” or markers throughout an application that can point pretty firmly in one direction or the other as to whether the person likely applied or would need for FA (including parents' education, professions, and type of school) that don't even get past the biographical info.

Yes, the privileged class are easy to spot, especially on paper. That does not mean that there is a sneaky conspiracy to admit full pay over equally qualified students with need. You should not spread this misinformation as it may discourage students from applying or asking for financial aid when it will have no affect on their admissions decision.

No sneaky conspiracy at all. Not intended for FA families at all. I don't pretend to know anything about it.

For wealthy families, there's more than meets the eye in admissions. And, I don't pretend to understand EM. But it is rather interesting that the % of full pay stays around the same each year. Maybe WL do the heavy lifting there? Who knows. I'm sure they have a sophisticated way to do this so we never figure it out.

My takeaway: Just don't hide the wealth - we certainly aren't. And it worked out well for Kid1 into T20.

The bold part explicitly suggests a sneaky conspiracy. Need blind colleges are need blind in admissions as stated. Please stop with the misinformation.

Need-Blind Admissions Has Always Been a Lie: https://www.ivycoach.com/the-ivy-coach-blog/college-admissions/the-need-blind-admissions-lie-exposed/
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1287452
https://www.thedp.com/article/2022/01/upenn-not-need-blind-admissions

But this price-fixing cartel has been discussed here before.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/19ekf70/top_schools_are_not_really_need_blind/

Bev Taylor? That’s the best link you have? She was never an admissions officer and her “article” has not one bit of evidence. She needs her customers, some of whom pay 7 figures, to believe that lie.

The lawsuit is classic post hoc ergo propter hoc thinking. It the discovery shows evidence - as the race lawsuit did - then we can all change our tune. But there is no evidence that need blind admissions are not, in fact, need blind as stated.

"I have always thought of “need blind” as more of a noble goal than an actual reality. Admissions folks are plenty smart — they have a very good idea about the financial background of applicants just by circumstantial evidence. We know there’s a bias toward elite credentials, and there’s no doubt in my mind that there’s implicit and unconscious bias toward those w money."
- good quote from: https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/19ekf70/top_schools_are_not_really_need_blind/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A T20 AO (retired/now in private college counseling practice) told me that AOs do look "favorably" on certain markers of wealth and that it's inevitable that a large number of successful applicants will always be wealthy and full pay. After all, half the class is full pay. How do they do that each year? Think about it.

Much has been written about this non-novel idea. Wealthy students have advantages that make them - by far - stronger applicants. It's a self-selecting sample. You claim an AO told you but it is important to note that not one former AO - including the many who have written tell-all books - supports this claim.

"Need blind" is not the same as "need ignorant". There are plenty of “tells” or markers throughout an application that can point pretty firmly in one direction or the other as to whether the person likely applied or would need for FA (including parents' education, professions, and type of school) that don't even get past the biographical info.

Yes, the privileged class are easy to spot, especially on paper. That does not mean that there is a sneaky conspiracy to admit full pay over equally qualified students with need. You should not spread this misinformation as it may discourage students from applying or asking for financial aid when it will have no affect on their admissions decision.

No sneaky conspiracy at all. Not intended for FA families at all. I don't pretend to know anything about it.

For wealthy families, there's more than meets the eye in admissions. And, I don't pretend to understand EM. But it is rather interesting that the % of full pay stays around the same each year. Maybe WL do the heavy lifting there? Who knows. I'm sure they have a sophisticated way to do this so we never figure it out.

My takeaway: Just don't hide the wealth - we certainly aren't. And it worked out well for Kid1 into T20.

The bold part explicitly suggests a sneaky conspiracy. Need blind colleges are need blind in admissions as stated. Please stop with the misinformation.

Need-Blind Admissions Has Always Been a Lie: https://www.ivycoach.com/the-ivy-coach-blog/college-admissions/the-need-blind-admissions-lie-exposed/
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1287452
https://www.thedp.com/article/2022/01/upenn-not-need-blind-admissions

But this price-fixing cartel has been discussed here before.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/19ekf70/top_schools_are_not_really_need_blind/

Bev Taylor? That’s the best link you have? She was never an admissions officer and her “article” has not one bit of evidence. She needs her customers, some of whom pay 7 figures, to believe that lie.

The lawsuit is classic post hoc ergo propter hoc thinking. It the discovery shows evidence - as the race lawsuit did - then we can all change our tune. But there is no evidence that need blind admissions are not, in fact, need blind as stated.

"I have always thought of “need blind” as more of a noble goal than an actual reality. Admissions folks are plenty smart — they have a very good idea about the financial background of applicants just by circumstantial evidence. We know there’s a bias toward elite credentials, and there’s no doubt in my mind that there’s implicit and unconscious bias toward those w money."
- good quote from: https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/19ekf70/top_schools_are_not_really_need_blind/

More speculation, nothing more.

[Anonymous]

Can’t they easily identify full pay families through the FAFSA and CSS? I mean, how is a family’s ability to pay truly “unknown” to admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can’t they easily identify full pay families through the FAFSA and CSS? I mean, how is a family’s ability to pay truly “unknown” to admissions?

they are supposed to not "look" if the applicant has applied for aid (that's why the Financial Aid office is sep from Admissions). But that's the whole point of this thread.

[Anonymous]

Of course. People who deny this are kidding themselves. ED is wealthy kid affirmative action

[Anonymous]

Every single one

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Of course. People who deny this are kidding themselves. ED is wealthy kid affirmative action

Oh you again.

Didn’t we beat you down on this intentionally misleading point before?

Any student can apply ED if the Net Price Calculator give a price the feel is affordable. If the NPC is incorrect (which it can’t be by law) you are released from the ED agreement.

Please do not let misonformers like PP stop you from applying ED or applying for financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course. People who deny this are kidding themselves. ED is wealthy kid affirmative action

Oh you again.

Didn’t we beat you down on this intentionally misleading point before?

Any student can apply ED if the Net Price Calculator give a price the feel is affordable. If the NPC is incorrect (which it can’t be by law) you are released from the ED agreement.

Please do not let misonformers like PP stop you from applying ED or applying for financial aid.

+1 We are middle class and got excellent FA in ED that beat NPC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Need-aware privates in, or near, the top 50, depending on what ranking you are using:

WashU
Wake Forest
RPI
Villanova

Need-aware privates, going beyond Top 50:
U Miami
Pepperdine
GWU
WPI
American
Loyola Marymount
Stevens Inst Tech
Marquette
Gonzaga
BYU
Howard
U San Diego
Clark
RIT
Drexel
U San Francisco
U Denver
Fairfield U
Creighton
Loyola Chicago
Temple
Clarkson
The New School
Seattle U
Bentley
RISD
Loyola Maryland
U Portland
Whitworth

Washu is need blind unless international

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Brown
Dartmouth
Vanderbilt
Georgetown
WashU

Please don’t talk about stuff you know nothing about.

Dartmouth: need blind https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/glossary-term/need-blind-0

Vandy: need blind https://www.vanderbilt.edu/financialaid/#:~:text=Since%20talent%20and%20promise%20recognize,a%20family's%20demonstrated%20financial%20need.

Gtown:
Need blind https://giving.georgetown.edu/what-to-support/university-wide-priorities/access-affordability/

Wash U: need blind https://financialaid.washu.edu/how-aid-works/affordability/#:~:text=making%20admissions%20decisions.-,Common%20questions,need%20for%20all%20admitted%20students.