High school shutouts-- what's the plan?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact that Banneker and McKinley didn’t match all the seats is meaningless. The number of seats they put down is essentially a guess and a maximum. Then they decide from the pool of applicants who/how many to interview, and then from that who/how many to admit. Only those the school deems “Eligible” after the interview process can be admitted. The the number of kids on the tableau form is how many were deemed “eligible.” It tells zero information about how many applied. If they want to fill to the original number the seats they put down, they would have done it.

It's not meaningless, it indicates that the wait-list may clear, and then what?

There is no waitlist. Banneker wants 180 freshmen, they admitted 245, they’re calculating that 65 will enroll elsewhere. It’s exactly how private school and college admissions work: admit more students than you plan to enroll, calculating that not all of them will enroll. Walls does something similar; they matched 180 but usually have only 150 freshmen.

They did clear their waitlist. They couldn’t fill the 260 seats they had. They only filled 245 seats.

If they have 180 seats and set aside 260 seats, that tells me a lot of kids, over 40% don’t enroll and go there.

Also, your math is significantly off.

No it’s not. They set aside 260 seats expecting to fill 180 so that is 80 out of 180 students they don’t expect to attend. That’s just over 44% they don’t expect to enroll and attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Banneker admitted 260 kids to yield 180. 180/260 = 69%

Walls typically admits about 240 students (adding match day numbers plus waitlist offers) to wind up with about 160 freshmen on count day. 160/240 = 67%

The numbers are really incredibly similar. It’s almost like Banneker and Walls are about the same size, located in the same general area, draw from broadly overlapping applicant pools, compete with the same privates and charters, and must conduct admissions through the same weird lottery mechanism. They’re very similar schools, in the grand scheme of things.

Nope....Walls can fit inside of Banneker from maximum student standpoint. Banneker is slowly growing while Walls is over enrolled.

Banneker is 671 this year, Walls is about 600.

In a high school landscape where schools range from 377 (Latin) to 2153 (JR), I think it’s fair to say that Walls and Banneker are about the same size.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact that Banneker and McKinley didn’t match all the seats is meaningless. The number of seats they put down is essentially a guess and a maximum. Then they decide from the pool of applicants who/how many to interview, and then from that who/how many to admit. Only those the school deems “Eligible” after the interview process can be admitted. The the number of kids on the tableau form is how many were deemed “eligible.” It tells zero information about how many applied. If they want to fill to the original number the seats they put down, they would have done it.

It's not meaningless, it indicates that the wait-list may clear, and then what?

There is no waitlist. Banneker wants 180 freshmen, they admitted 245, they’re calculating that 65 will enroll elsewhere. It’s exactly how private school and college admissions work: admit more students than you plan to enroll, calculating that not all of them will enroll. Walls does something similar; they matched 180 but usually have only 150 freshmen.

They did clear their waitlist. They couldn’t fill the 260 seats they had. They only filled 245 seats.

If they have 180 seats and set aside 260 seats, that tells me a lot of kids, over 40% don’t enroll and go there.

Also, your math is significantly off.

No it’s not. They set aside 260 seats expecting to fill 180 so that is 80 out of 180 students they don’t expect to attend. That’s just over 44% they don’t expect to enroll and attend.

No. That is 80 out of 260 who they don’t expect to attend, which is about 30%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact that Banneker and McKinley didn’t match all the seats is meaningless. The number of seats they put down is essentially a guess and a maximum. Then they decide from the pool of applicants who/how many to interview, and then from that who/how many to admit. Only those the school deems “Eligible” after the interview process can be admitted. The the number of kids on the tableau form is how many were deemed “eligible.” It tells zero information about how many applied. If they want to fill to the original number the seats they put down, they would have done it.

It's not meaningless, it indicates that the wait-list may clear, and then what?

There is no waitlist. Banneker wants 180 freshmen, they admitted 245, they’re calculating that 65 will enroll elsewhere. It’s exactly how private school and college admissions work: admit more students than you plan to enroll, calculating that not all of them will enroll. Walls does something similar; they matched 180 but usually have only 150 freshmen.

They did clear their waitlist. They couldn’t fill the 260 seats they had. They only filled 245 seats.

If they have 180 seats and set aside 260 seats, that tells me a lot of kids, over 40% don’t enroll and go there.

Also, your math is significantly off.

No it’s not. They set aside 260 seats expecting to fill 180 so that is 80 out of 180 students they don’t expect to attend. That’s just over 44% they don’t expect to enroll and attend.

No. That is 80 out of 260 who they don’t expect to attend, which is about 30%.

This. 80 is 30% of the total, 260. 180 is 70% of the total.

80 is 44% of 180, but that's not a meaningful proportion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The main problem is that JR lets all comers into its AP classes. Most suburban schools don't. The kids either meet a cut off in a prerequisite, generally at B+, or they don't qualify to take the AP class up the chain. Same with pre-IB work and IB Diploma. Also, suburban schools generally offer far more APs than JR, which only teaches around 20 subjects. Good suburban high schools teach more than 30 (there are 39 subjects). JR teaches 4 languages. Some suburban schools in the DMV teach a dozen. ECs tend to be far more serious in the burbs as well.

Not true for MCPS -- anyone can take any AP course. Same with IB -- even if it's a magnet program, if you attend the school in a non-magnet program, you can take any of the IB classes (not the pre-IB classes, though, which are limited to magnet students).

I am not aware of any MCPS HS that teach a dozen languages. Four seems like the norm here.

The suburban schools are fine, but they are not a panacea.

- Former DC resident who moved to Montgomery County

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have close friends and relatives with teens in schools in Fairfax, Arlington and MoCo. The friends became our pals in our DCPS ES. It's clear to me that there really isn't any comparison between dysfunctional, low-capacity, ambition challenged DCPS and the high-capacity school systems in the burbs. For starters, those counties support advanced programs for ES and MS. They track academically in middle school in all core subjects by 7th grade. They also run serious test-in HS programs, mostly the school-within-a-school type. Parents in those school systems grumble on these threads because it's all relative - they haven't experienced DCPS middle or high school chaos and ad hocery.

The bolded is not true for MCPS. MCPS MS offer advanced math class (generally taking algebra in 7th grade) and advanced social studies. There is no advanced English or science. For languages, you take high school classes in middle school. For my kid, those have been the most challenging. The advanced social studies class has some more work than the regular one, but it's not especially challenging. The advanced math class is probably similar to what DCPS does for kids who take algebra in 7th.

MCPS has been fine for us, but we also liked the upper NW DCPS we were in before and think our kid would have been fine with Deal/J-R for high school. I know a lot of people in DC don't have those choices -- but if you play the lottery and have no luck and find yourselves having to move, I would put Deal/J-R just as high on the neighborhoods to consider as the MCPS schools.

- Former DC resident, now MoCo resident, again

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have close friends and relatives with teens in schools in Fairfax, Arlington and MoCo. The friends became our pals in our DCPS ES. It's clear to me that there really isn't any comparison between dysfunctional, low-capacity, ambition challenged DCPS and the high-capacity school systems in the burbs. For starters, those counties support advanced programs for ES and MS. They track academically in middle school in all core subjects by 7th grade. They also run serious test-in HS programs, mostly the school-within-a-school type. Parents in those school systems grumble on these threads because it's all relative - they haven't experienced DCPS middle or high school chaos and ad hocery.

The bolded is not true for MCPS. MCPS MS offer advanced math class (generally taking algebra in 7th grade) and advanced social studies. There is no advanced English or science. For languages, you take high school classes in middle school. For my kid, those have been the most challenging. The advanced social studies class has some more work than the regular one, but it's not especially challenging. The advanced math class is probably similar to what DCPS does for kids who take algebra in 7th.

MCPS has been fine for us, but we also liked the upper NW DCPS we were in before and think our kid would have been fine with Deal/J-R for high school. I know a lot of people in DC don't have those choices -- but if you play the lottery and have no luck and find yourselves having to move, I would put Deal/J-R just as high on the neighborhoods to consider as the MCPS schools.

- Former DC resident, now MoCo resident, again

It will be nice for you to have an instate flagship

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The main problem is that JR lets all comers into its AP classes. Most suburban schools don't. The kids either meet a cut off in a prerequisite, generally at B+, or they don't qualify to take the AP class up the chain. Same with pre-IB work and IB Diploma. Also, suburban schools generally offer far more APs than JR, which only teaches around 20 subjects. Good suburban high schools teach more than 30 (there are 39 subjects). JR teaches 4 languages. Some suburban schools in the DMV teach a dozen. ECs tend to be far more serious in the burbs as well.

Out of curiosity I went to JR High school website and to McLean High school website and counted. JR has 26 AP classes, and McLean 24 AP classes.

Bethesda Chevy Chase has 34. Oakton HS has 35.

B-CC has 27 on their senior course card, not 34. And that is just what may be offered -- if not enough students enroll, they will be dropped next year. (They also have IB courses, but these largely overlap with the AP courses; for example, students either take AP English courses or IB English courses, not both.)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1556jHAFThI9iv1Ob8pNa2UTmklQUkYa-VqOinsaNdyY/edit#gid=1912123422

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have close friends and relatives with teens in schools in Fairfax, Arlington and MoCo. The friends became our pals in our DCPS ES. It's clear to me that there really isn't any comparison between dysfunctional, low-capacity, ambition challenged DCPS and the high-capacity school systems in the burbs. For starters, those counties support advanced programs for ES and MS. They track academically in middle school in all core subjects by 7th grade. They also run serious test-in HS programs, mostly the school-within-a-school type. Parents in those school systems grumble on these threads because it's all relative - they haven't experienced DCPS middle or high school chaos and ad hocery.

Cool anecdote. You're wildly incorrect, but cool anecdote.

NP. Wildly incorrect? Dream on.

In MoCo, Arlington and Fairfax, advanced middle school students can take honors (aka "intensified" or above-grade-level) classes in 7th and 8th grades in science, social studies, English and math. In DCPS, the best you can do are grade level middle school classes in core subjects, with advanced math at Deal, Hardy and maybe Hobson

Correct, no serious test-in HS programs in the DC public system. We don't have high octane high school programs because we don't have advanced elementary school or middle school programs. Can you make do with Walls, or J-R, or Latin, or DCI, or Banneker? Yes. Can these programs compete with what's offered at the better suburban high school programs? Definitely not.

Former DC resident, current MoCo resident. Again, the bolded is not correct. The only enriched options in MS are in math and social studies. Unless you attend one of the magnets (which are lotteries among qualified students), there is no enriched English or science class available. I mean, sure, MCPS puts everyone in "advanced" English, but this is just to appease parents -- it is just an on-level class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have close friends and relatives with teens in schools in Fairfax, Arlington and MoCo. The friends became our pals in our DCPS ES. It's clear to me that there really isn't any comparison between dysfunctional, low-capacity, ambition challenged DCPS and the high-capacity school systems in the burbs. For starters, those counties support advanced programs for ES and MS. They track academically in middle school in all core subjects by 7th grade. They also run serious test-in HS programs, mostly the school-within-a-school type. Parents in those school systems grumble on these threads because it's all relative - they haven't experienced DCPS middle or high school chaos and ad hocery.

The bolded is not true for MCPS. MCPS MS offer advanced math class (generally taking algebra in 7th grade) and advanced social studies. There is no advanced English or science. For languages, you take high school classes in middle school. For my kid, those have been the most challenging. The advanced social studies class has some more work than the regular one, but it's not especially challenging. The advanced math class is probably similar to what DCPS does for kids who take algebra in 7th.

MCPS has been fine for us, but we also liked the upper NW DCPS we were in before and think our kid would have been fine with Deal/J-R for high school. I know a lot of people in DC don't have those choices -- but if you play the lottery and have no luck and find yourselves having to move, I would put Deal/J-R just as high on the neighborhoods to consider as the MCPS schools.

- Former DC resident, now MoCo resident, again

It will be nice for you to have an instate flagship

Yes, but honestly, if that had been our priority, we would have moved to VA -- lots more choices for in-state college there. The problem with UMD is that, presuming kid can get in (and lots of MCPS students get shut out), it's so close-by--not sure my kids would want to go there. I think we probably would prefer DC TAG to be able to get the discount on any in-state school.

[Anonymous]

MCPS have slipped in the last decade while NoVa schools have soared. My kids attend NoVa public schools, near where my ex lives (we share custody; I live in Upper NW). They've been able to take advanced classes from 7th grade in all core subjects. Their high school teaches 10 languages. There are prerequisites for most AP classes at their schools. Etc. My ex moved out of DC to NoVa for a reason. If he hadn't, I would have. Sorry, but you guys in DC fighting to get into Latin, BASIS, DCI, Walls, Banneker, JR and MacArthur are fighting over scraps.

[Anonymous]

+1!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The fact that Banneker and McKinley didn’t match all the seats is meaningless. The number of seats they put down is essentially a guess and a maximum. Then they decide from the pool of applicants who/how many to interview, and then from that who/how many to admit. Only those the school deems “Eligible” after the interview process can be admitted. The the number of kids on the tableau form is how many were deemed “eligible.” It tells zero information about how many applied. If they want to fill to the original number the seats they put down, they would have done it.

It's not meaningless, it indicates that the wait-list may clear, and then what?

There is no waitlist. Banneker wants 180 freshmen, they admitted 245, they’re calculating that 65 will enroll elsewhere. It’s exactly how private school and college admissions work: admit more students than you plan to enroll, calculating that not all of them will enroll. Walls does something similar; they matched 180 but usually have only 150 freshmen.

They did clear their waitlist. They couldn’t fill the 260 seats they had. They only filled 245 seats.

If they have 180 seats and set aside 260 seats, that tells me a lot of kids, over 40% don’t enroll and go there.

They had about 700 interviews this year.lol This isn't true. I suspect people are actually waitlisted that are showing otherwise. I would absolutely reapply asap. DC is in the currently bloated freshman class and most of their friends were waitlisted in initially.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have close friends and relatives with teens in schools in Fairfax, Arlington and MoCo. The friends became our pals in our DCPS ES. It's clear to me that there really isn't any comparison between dysfunctional, low-capacity, ambition challenged DCPS and the high-capacity school systems in the burbs. For starters, those counties support advanced programs for ES and MS. They track academically in middle school in all core subjects by 7th grade. They also run serious test-in HS programs, mostly the school-within-a-school type. Parents in those school systems grumble on these threads because it's all relative - they haven't experienced DCPS middle or high school chaos and ad hocery.

Cool anecdote. You're wildly incorrect, but cool anecdote.

NP. Wildly incorrect? Dream on.

In MoCo, Arlington and Fairfax, advanced middle school students can take honors (aka "intensified" or above-grade-level) classes in 7th and 8th grades in science, social studies, English and math. In DCPS, the best you can do are grade level middle school classes in core subjects, with advanced math at Deal, Hardy and maybe Hobson

Correct, no serious test-in HS programs in the DC public system. We don't have high octane high school programs because we don't have advanced elementary school or middle school programs. Can you make do with Walls, or J-R, or Latin, or DCI, or Banneker? Yes. Can these programs compete with what's offered at the better suburban high school programs? Definitely not.

Former DC resident, current MoCo resident. Again, the bolded is not correct. The only enriched options in MS are in math and social studies. Unless you attend one of the magnets (which are lotteries among qualified students), there is no enriched English or science class available. I mean, sure, MCPS puts everyone in "advanced" English, but this is just to appease parents -- it is just an on-level class.

Enriched social studies and math and you're complaining? At least a third of the kids in my child's DCPS 8th grade social studies class at Stuart Hobson work multiple years behind grade level. No, MCPS doesn't put everybody into advanced English. Many kids are put into ELL English, at least on the eastern side of the county. You must live in Bethesda.

[Anonymous]

Banneker and McKinley fill the number of seats they want to fill. The maximum numbers are meaningless. They are selective. They can pick who they want. They can grow or shrink their freshman classes based on the number of students they find who will meet their requirements. This means, basically, that predictions about waitlists are meaningless too. They may pull from them, they may not, based on their priorities for the year and previous class sizes.

The lottery and waitlist games for these schools are completely different than non-selective schools.