Seems like MCPS is a mess

[Anonymous]

If students are vaping, in spite of warnings, then punish the parents. Don't punish students who just want to use the bathroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If students are vaping, in spite of warnings, then punish the parents. Don't punish students who just want to use the bathroom.

It’s not equitable to punish the parents. Some parents are not able to parent their kids the way they might want to (poverty, work responsibilities, family issues).

You can’t punish parents for kids vaping in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If students are vaping, in spite of warnings, then punish the parents. Don't punish students who just want to use the bathroom.

"Punish the parents" how?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If students are vaping, in spite of warnings, then punish the parents. Don't punish students who just want to use the bathroom.

It’s not equitable to punish the parents. Some parents are not able to parent their kids the way they might want to (poverty, work responsibilities, family issues).

You can’t punish parents for kids vaping in school.

lol what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hilarious that people think there is some right-wing conspiracy against MCPS. As if.

MCPS is a mess. But I do agree that most public school systems in the US are a mess right now.

I have posted here about various issues like the bathroom problems at my kid’s school. To the PP who thinks I am a right-wing agitator (lol), would you deny that some schools are having issues with their bathrooms? I mean, it’s a well-known problem.

Lack of discipline in public schools? Pretty well-documented if you simply look through the posts here or on the news, over the past 3 years.

Are you just denying that there are issues?

By the bathroom problem, do you mean the toilets getting clogged on a regular basis? That's been an issue at my child's school and it was due to kids flushing items down the toilet for fun. My kid said it stopped in the last couple of months so maybe they found the child(ren) doing this.

Nah. Clogged toilets are not the main issue.

Check out this article discussing some issues at RM regarding bathrooms. Written by students, who are unlikely pushing any kind of right-wing agenda, but I could be wrong.

https://thermtide.com/22414/popular/perspective-bathroom-policy-poses-additional-issues/

My kid is at another HS and faces similar issues.

Thanks for that link. It's exactly how my DD was describing. She's at RM.

Closing the bathrooms isn't stopping the kids from vaping. It's just causing the rest of the kids to suffer.

I'm going to send an email to the RM admin and the BOE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child is in 8th and has read multiple novels each year in MS and plays, including Shakespeare and Miller. It’s been a mix of classics like Animal Farm and more recent works

Is your child in a magnet? If not, then this is a perfect example of the problem with MCPS -- students in different schools get vastly different experiences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read at least four books a year in HS English but that’s because we had to read at home and do assignments there. If the book is being read aloud to the students like it often is, there won’t be any at home reading expectations and it will take forever.

I didn’t read 4 full books for each year of HS English. And yet still managed to graduate a rigourous HS and be well prepared for college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If students are vaping, in spite of warnings, then punish the parents. Don't punish students who just want to use the bathroom.

It’s not equitable to punish the parents. Some parents are not able to parent their kids the way they might want to (poverty, work responsibilities, family issues).

You can’t punish parents for kids vaping in school.

lol what?

So then who should be punished? Who should be counseled, where and by who?

[Anonymous]

Why do so many posters take legitimate complaints about safety by parents, teachers and students as a personal attack? Obviously MCPS is experiencing a decline. Don’t you want to be part of the solution? Things will never get better if you refuse to acknowledge what needs to be improved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Moving to the area soon and had been thinking MoCo for the schools but this forum paints a bleak picture. Would any of you prefer a VA district to MCPS?

Don't go by DCUM. You will be better off talking to real people.

Agreed. Also, don't move ANYWHERE "for the schools". Find an area you like, with a residence you can afford, with transportation options that work for you.

This. Consider the schools once you narrow it down to what else works. Don't depend on the schools being exactly as advertised, either to the good or the bad. Almost all area school systems end up with better performance in wealthier areas; some of that is peer cohort, both influence on a student and logistics of teaching/administering at a particular school.

Long ago, MCPS was the best in the area, but was eclipsed by FCPS back in the 80s, if not the 70s. It still maintained at a reasonably high level, but demographic and political changes have had impacts, and there's a lot of discontent from the now much greater heterogeneity (coming from all angles). Still considered very good when viewed nationally.

FCPS, itself, has changed, but perhaps not as much. The counties that used to be considered exurban (Loudoun, Howard) have in the past 3 decades attracted much more UMC development than was the case for them earlier, not entirely unlike MoCo in the 50s-70s and Fairfax in the 60s-80s, each corresponding with an unsurprising rise in education standard.

DC, which was a disaster, got better with gentrification over the past 20 years or so, but still isn't where the suburban counties are, as a whole. Arlington, which hollowed out in the 70s/80s from a quality of education perspective, rebounded afterwards with similar gentrification. To some degree, the same goes for Alexandria city. (Note, as a good amount termed Alexandria is in Fairfax County instead of Alexandria City, and there are variations, there.) PG, which was terrible, has improved considerably. I'm not as familiar with Anne Arundel or Frederick, but I would imagine something of the same developing exurban paradigm.

The only one that may not have developed that way is Prince William, and I can't claim familiarity, there, but I would guess the quality of education is still considerably dependent on economic status, and there are UMC communities there, as well.

I’ve got to correct this misinformed version of history.

Arlington didn’t hollow out and the schools were not abandoned due to quality issues. Like most older, inner-ring D.C. suburbs they shrank in size, but no high schools were closed unlike in FCPS and MCPS, which closed a number of them.

By the late 70s/early 80s most young families who didn’t need to be near D.C. preferred the newer, larger, and less expensive housing further out in Fairfax County. The birth rate was also low in the mid to late 70s. Yet, W-L and Yorktown high schools both won Blue Ribbon awards during that era when they were much smaller high schools under 1000 students, so the education itself did not suffer. The schools began to grow again by the early 90s as neighborhoods gentrified and empty nesters moved out. After about 35 years of growth the schools are approaching the size they had in the 1950s and 60s.

There is a certain amount of snobbery on these boards. Some people used to claim that B-CC HS was practically abandoned, was a bad school, etc., in the 80s-90s, which isn’t true. It was in a run down (but historic) building and more ethnically and socio-economically diverse than many MCPS schools at the time, and so not a good school to some. But it punched well above its weight, had good test scores, and had its boosters from the surrounding affluent community. In the 90s some of those parents started a foundation to support the school.

Also, PG schools were not terrible back then. Most people would argue they were stronger overall then (through the mid 90s).

To respond to OP, MCPS schools are fine. I’d look at the closer in neighborhoods in Bethesda and Chevy Chase. The schools there are great, and the neighborhoods are a healthy mix of suburban and urban amenities. Metro subway access is also nice.

OP here, thanks for this perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do so many posters take legitimate complaints about safety by parents, teachers and students as a personal attack? Obviously MCPS is experiencing a decline. Don’t you want to be part of the solution? Things will never get better if you refuse to acknowledge what needs to be improved.

Obviously MCPS has problems.

Is it a "decline"? I don't think so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Moving to the area soon and had been thinking MoCo for the schools but this forum paints a bleak picture. Would any of you prefer a VA district to MCPS?

Don't go by DCUM. You will be better off talking to real people.

Agreed. Also, don't move ANYWHERE "for the schools". Find an area you like, with a residence you can afford, with transportation options that work for you.

This. Consider the schools once you narrow it down to what else works. Don't depend on the schools being exactly as advertised, either to the good or the bad. Almost all area school systems end up with better performance in wealthier areas; some of that is peer cohort, both influence on a student and logistics of teaching/administering at a particular school.

Long ago, MCPS was the best in the area, but was eclipsed by FCPS back in the 80s, if not the 70s. It still maintained at a reasonably high level, but demographic and political changes have had impacts, and there's a lot of discontent from the now much greater heterogeneity (coming from all angles). Still considered very good when viewed nationally.

FCPS, itself, has changed, but perhaps not as much. The counties that used to be considered exurban (Loudoun, Howard) have in the past 3 decades attracted much more UMC development than was the case for them earlier, not entirely unlike MoCo in the 50s-70s and Fairfax in the 60s-80s, each corresponding with an unsurprising rise in education standard.

DC, which was a disaster, got better with gentrification over the past 20 years or so, but still isn't where the suburban counties are, as a whole. Arlington, which hollowed out in the 70s/80s from a quality of education perspective, rebounded afterwards with similar gentrification. To some degree, the same goes for Alexandria city. (Note, as a good amount termed Alexandria is in Fairfax County instead of Alexandria City, and there are variations, there.) PG, which was terrible, has improved considerably. I'm not as familiar with Anne Arundel or Frederick, but I would imagine something of the same developing exurban paradigm.

The only one that may not have developed that way is Prince William, and I can't claim familiarity, there, but I would guess the quality of education is still considerably dependent on economic status, and there are UMC communities there, as well.

I’ve got to correct this misinformed version of history.

Arlington didn’t hollow out and the schools were not abandoned due to quality issues. Like most older, inner-ring D.C. suburbs they shrank in size, but no high schools were closed unlike in FCPS and MCPS, which closed a number of them.

By the late 70s/early 80s most young families who didn’t need to be near D.C. preferred the newer, larger, and less expensive housing further out in Fairfax County. The birth rate was also low in the mid to late 70s. Yet, W-L and Yorktown high schools both won Blue Ribbon awards during that era when they were much smaller high schools under 1000 students, so the education itself did not suffer. The schools began to grow again by the early 90s as neighborhoods gentrified and empty nesters moved out. After about 35 years of growth the schools are approaching the size they had in the 1950s and 60s.

There is a certain amount of snobbery on these boards. Some people used to claim that B-CC HS was practically abandoned, was a bad school, etc., in the 80s-90s, which isn’t true. It was in a run down (but historic) building and more ethnically and socio-economically diverse than many MCPS schools at the time, and so not a good school to some. But it punched well above its weight, had good test scores, and had its boosters from the surrounding affluent community. In the 90s some of those parents started a foundation to support the school.

Also, PG schools were not terrible back then. Most people would argue they were stronger overall then (through the mid 90s).

To respond to OP, MCPS schools are fine. I’d look at the closer in neighborhoods in Bethesda and Chevy Chase. The schools there are great, and the neighborhoods are a healthy mix of suburban and urban amenities. Metro subway access is also nice.

I don't think Arlington got terrible, just that there was that period where it wasn't as good as it became beginning about 20 years ago (and might have been 20 years beforehand). I agree that Arlington did a better job than MCPS in keeping their school facilities open/available.

After about 1980, though, I don't think comparable housing was less expensive in McLean, further out but where many family types wirh the considerations you mention then settled, than in next-door Arlington. There was a rebound in the late 90s and beyond, with the re-gentrification you mentioned. The biggest changes seemed to be south of Lee Hwy or the Orange Line, depending, all the way to the Alexandria border, with some areas (e.g., Arna Valley) getting complete makeovers and others having more gradual uplift. Washington-Lee benefitted from a completely new structure 20 years back, though that was after the Blue Ribbon you noted where I'd suggested hollowing; Yorktown was about the most insulated catchment. Perhaps my impressions are colored by my particular experience in the area, or are distorted from age...who knows.

You're probably right that PG wasn't all bad, and probably much better than I give it credit. It was pretty segregated, though, between close in and farther out (as might be said about most, but with more clear effect), and it certainly was considered behind, overall, except for DC. Money...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Moving to the area soon and had been thinking MoCo for the schools but this forum paints a bleak picture. Would any of you prefer a VA district to MCPS?

Don't go by DCUM. You will be better off talking to real people.

Agreed. Also, don't move ANYWHERE "for the schools". Find an area you like, with a residence you can afford, with transportation options that work for you.

This. Consider the schools once you narrow it down to what else works. Don't depend on the schools being exactly as advertised, either to the good or the bad. Almost all area school systems end up with better performance in wealthier areas; some of that is peer cohort, both influence on a student and logistics of teaching/administering at a particular school.

Long ago, MCPS was the best in the area, but was eclipsed by FCPS back in the 80s, if not the 70s. It still maintained at a reasonably high level, but demographic and political changes have had impacts, and there's a lot of discontent from the now much greater heterogeneity (coming from all angles). Still considered very good when viewed nationally.

FCPS, itself, has changed, but perhaps not as much. The counties that used to be considered exurban (Loudoun, Howard) have in the past 3 decades attracted much more UMC development than was the case for them earlier, not entirely unlike MoCo in the 50s-70s and Fairfax in the 60s-80s, each corresponding with an unsurprising rise in education standard.

DC, which was a disaster, got better with gentrification over the past 20 years or so, but still isn't where the suburban counties are, as a whole. Arlington, which hollowed out in the 70s/80s from a quality of education perspective, rebounded afterwards with similar gentrification. To some degree, the same goes for Alexandria city. (Note, as a good amount termed Alexandria is in Fairfax County instead of Alexandria City, and there are variations, there.) PG, which was terrible, has improved considerably. I'm not as familiar with Anne Arundel or Frederick, but I would imagine something of the same developing exurban paradigm.

The only one that may not have developed that way is Prince William, and I can't claim familiarity, there, but I would guess the quality of education is still considerably dependent on economic status, and there are UMC communities there, as well.

I’ve got to correct this misinformed version of history.

Arlington didn’t hollow out and the schools were not abandoned due to quality issues. Like most older, inner-ring D.C. suburbs they shrank in size, but no high schools were closed unlike in FCPS and MCPS, which closed a number of them.

By the late 70s/early 80s most young families who didn’t need to be near D.C. preferred the newer, larger, and less expensive housing further out in Fairfax County. The birth rate was also low in the mid to late 70s. Yet, W-L and Yorktown high schools both won Blue Ribbon awards during that era when they were much smaller high schools under 1000 students, so the education itself did not suffer. The schools began to grow again by the early 90s as neighborhoods gentrified and empty nesters moved out. After about 35 years of growth the schools are approaching the size they had in the 1950s and 60s.

There is a certain amount of snobbery on these boards. Some people used to claim that B-CC HS was practically abandoned, was a bad school, etc., in the 80s-90s, which isn’t true. It was in a run down (but historic) building and more ethnically and socio-economically diverse than many MCPS schools at the time, and so not a good school to some. But it punched well above its weight, had good test scores, and had its boosters from the surrounding affluent community. In the 90s some of those parents started a foundation to support the school.

Also, PG schools were not terrible back then. Most people would argue they were stronger overall then (through the mid 90s).

To respond to OP, MCPS schools are fine. I’d look at the closer in neighborhoods in Bethesda and Chevy Chase. The schools there are great, and the neighborhoods are a healthy mix of suburban and urban amenities. Metro subway access is also nice.

I don't think Arlington got terrible, just that there was that period where it wasn't as good as it became beginning about 20 years ago (and might have been 20 years beforehand). I agree that Arlington did a better job than MCPS in keeping their school facilities open/available.

After about 1980, though, I don't think comparable housing was less expensive in McLean, further out but where many family types wirh the considerations you mention then settled, than in next-door Arlington. There was a rebound in the late 90s and beyond, with the re-gentrification you mentioned. The biggest changes seemed to be south of Lee Hwy or the Orange Line, depending, all the way to the Alexandria border, with some areas (e.g., Arna Valley) getting complete makeovers and others having more gradual uplift. Washington-Lee benefitted from a completely new structure 20 years back, though that was after the Blue Ribbon you noted where I'd suggested hollowing; Yorktown was about the most insulated catchment. Perhaps my impressions are colored by my particular experience in the area, or are distorted from age...who knows.

You're probably right that PG wasn't all bad, and probably much better than I give it credit. It was pretty segregated, though, between close in and farther out (as might be said about most, but with more clear effect), and it certainly was considered behind, overall, except for DC. Money...

You’re right about some of the changes. The Washington-Lee HS boundary extended way up Military Rd to the Washington Golf and Country Club, so the affluence helped keep the test scores high, even if lower than in the 1960s and early 70s when Arlington schools (and MCPS’s B-CC) ranked among the top 5 in the country year after year. (The affluent area along Military Rd is where Sandra Bullock grew up in the 70s and 80s.) So the N Arlington schools and neighborhoods were holding their own pretty well, even if many parts of the county were showing their age.

In Chevy Chase Md, along with changing demographics, the closure of Leland Junior High likely accelerated the shift away from the public schools, along with the declining birth rate, and old (yet lovely) homes with empty nesters.

Gentrification in close in Arlington and Montgomery Counties really began in the 1980s with all the renovations and additions as young families started to move in. Takoma Park rebounded after they successfully fought off the freeways and the planned takeover of the neighborhood by Montgomery College. Metro did a lot to keep these older suburbs affluent, from downtown Bethesda to Clarendon to Silber Spring, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do so many posters take legitimate complaints about safety by parents, teachers and students as a personal attack? Obviously MCPS is experiencing a decline. Don’t you want to be part of the solution? Things will never get better if you refuse to acknowledge what needs to be improved.

Not agreeing with you about "decline" is not the same as thinking anything is a "personal attack."

[Anonymous]

It's a mess, but a lot of public school systems are a mess, so I'm not sure you get anything better elsewhere in the region.