Physicians Assistant or MD?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PS I also told her that making a salary in the 100Ks(which is guaranteed for almost all engineers and Np/PAs) is a much better lifestyle to do that as an engineer than an NP or PA.

Curious why you think engineers would have a "much better lifestyle" than NPs or PAs?? They're completely different things.

Engineers can work from home much more than medical professionals can. if you have an off day as an engineer you can make up your work on another day. if you have an off day as a medical professional you can kill someone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did your niece ASK for your advice????

OP. No she did not. I am just anticipating she may not become an MD. I will support her in whatever she does.

But really that's her dad's job.
He needs to be the one to support her in whatever she does or she will always feel like she let him down.

It seems that no one has asked for OP’s help and Op does not have personal knowledge or expertise but still wants to get involved- everybody’s favorite type of relative!!

[Anonymous]

OP has your niece actually asked for guidance or are you just butting in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP has your niece actually asked for guidance or are you just butting in?

Just read she hasn’t asked. Please just stay out of it.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I WILL keep my mouth shut on this topic with my family. I still think this thread provides valuable info. from experts re the various pathways for young people interested in medicine. Thank you to everyone who wrote.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PS I also told her that making a salary in the 100Ks(which is guaranteed for almost all engineers and Np/PAs) is a much better lifestyle to do that as an engineer than an NP or PA.

Curious why you think engineers would have a "much better lifestyle" than NPs or PAs?? They're completely different things.

Engineers can work from home much more than medical professionals can. if you have an off day as an engineer you can make up your work on another day. if you have an off day as a medical professional you can kill someone.

FWIW, every engineer but in my near and extended family has changed careers because of the tedium of it (there are 6-7 of them); every medical professional gripes but wouldn't give it up for the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve always felt that NPs have better training than PAs, bc NPs have to earn their RN first - it’s the prerequisite for NP school I believe. But correct me if wrong…

I work with NPs from very top programs. All NPs get their RN degree as part of their NP training but never work or have any bedside experience as an RN. They aren’t even trained to draw bloods or put in an IV. They have no knowledge in pathophysiology and their education consists mainly of memorization of basic protocols. In some NP programs, the vast majority of their education is online with little to no clinical experience and they definitely don’t do a residency.

This. You should see the NP students struggle when they have to come to campus in person to do their head-to-toe physical exam. I've literally seen a student palpate for the liver on the left side of the patient's body. Scary stuff. And their faculty doesn't care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve always felt that NPs have better training than PAs, bc NPs have to earn their RN first - it’s the prerequisite for NP school I believe. But correct me if wrong…

I work with NPs from very top programs. All NPs get their RN degree as part of their NP training but never work or have any bedside experience as an RN. They aren’t even trained to draw bloods or put in an IV. They have no knowledge in pathophysiology and their education consists mainly of memorization of basic protocols. In some NP programs, the vast majority of their education is online with little to no clinical experience and they definitely don’t do a residency.

What are you talking about? The vast majority of NPs worked as RNs for years before entering NP school, majority having a BSN. Nursing school alone gives clinical experience for 3 out of the 4 years. In fact, most NP programs require you to be at least an RN and with experience. There are a few programs where you can go from an unrelated bachelors degree onto a MSN-NP, with zero prior clinical experience, but that is not the typical pathway.

Not the case for program at Columbia University, not to mention the online programs

+1

The whole idea with NP programs was to increase training and responsibility for highly experienced nurses. So in the beginning, those accepted to NP programs had worked in patient care for years. This is just not the case anymore at all. Online NP programs are cash cows, and cash cow programs accept people who can write the check. This is terrible for patient care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a physician and one of my kids wants to go into medicine I told her that it's a long road however I told her to get her bachelors in something that can be a career by itself like engineering. I definitely told her not to become a nurse practitioner physician assistant because today's nurse practitioners and physician assistants can major in English for 4 years then go to a two year PA or NP school and then do one year residency. so basically they will only have three years of medical training compared to physician who does 4 years of medical school and four years of residency I think society deserves better medical professionals treating them than somebody who has only had three years of any medical experience -yet they can make life and death decisions. Now NP/PA who are in their 50s/60s- that is a totally different story because most of these people worked as nurses for years so they have medical experience and then later went on to college together PA or NP. I'm very surprised that some MDs up here on this board think that their child would get sufficient education in 3 years of medical training. I personally would mandate being a nurse 5 years before you can go to PA/NP school-for patient safety.

I'm sure those English-major Physician Assistants could at least put together a coherent paragraph.

I use talk to text.
I stand corrected--PA/NPs do NOT have to do a 1year residency. They can go and treat you right away.

Which is ... even scarier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve always felt that NPs have better training than PAs, bc NPs have to earn their RN first - it’s the prerequisite for NP school I believe. But correct me if wrong…

I work with NPs from very top programs. All NPs get their RN degree as part of their NP training but never work or have any bedside experience as an RN. They aren’t even trained to draw bloods or put in an IV. They have no knowledge in pathophysiology and their education consists mainly of memorization of basic protocols. In some NP programs, the vast majority of their education is online with little to no clinical experience and they definitely don’t do a residency.

What are you talking about? The vast majority of NPs worked as RNs for years before entering NP school, majority having a BSN. Nursing school alone gives clinical experience for 3 out of the 4 years. In fact, most NP programs require you to be at least an RN and with experience. There are a few programs where you can go from an unrelated bachelors degree onto a MSN-NP, with zero prior clinical experience, but that is not the typical pathway.

Not the case for program at Columbia University, not to mention the online programs

+1

The whole idea with NP programs was to increase training and responsibility for highly experienced nurses. So in the beginning, those accepted to NP programs had worked in patient care for years. This is just not the case anymore at all. Online NP programs are cash cows, and cash cow programs accept people who can write the check. This is terrible for patient care.

The Clintons pushed the whole NP/PA thing through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PS I also told her that making a salary in the 100Ks(which is guaranteed for almost all engineers and Np/PAs) is a much better lifestyle to do that as an engineer than an NP or PA.

Curious why you think engineers would have a "much better lifestyle" than NPs or PAs?? They're completely different things.

Engineers can work from home much more than medical professionals can. if you have an off day as an engineer you can make up your work on another day. if you have an off day as a medical professional you can kill someone.

Oh, we can kill people too. It just takes longer.

[Anonymous]

This is interesting and I'm not sure why the negative opinions on NP/PAs here. With some very limited exceptions, BY FAR I have had more positive interactions, diagnoses, attention, care, given to me by PAs and NPs than MDs. BY FAR. And this in the DMV area with well respected practices and hospitals.

My experience is these folks spend more time with you as a patient/person. MDs are in and out quickly, dismiss your complaints, and aim for low hanging fruit in terms of diagnoses nearly 100% of the time.

I would much prefer to have the input of a NP/PA in addition/as a second view to the MD every single time.

Also some of the smartest people I know are NPs and PAs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is interesting and I'm not sure why the negative opinions on NP/PAs here. With some very limited exceptions, BY FAR I have had more positive interactions, diagnoses, attention, care, given to me by PAs and NPs than MDs. BY FAR. And this in the DMV area with well respected practices and hospitals.

My experience is these folks spend more time with you as a patient/person. MDs are in and out quickly, dismiss your complaints, and aim for low hanging fruit in terms of diagnoses nearly 100% of the time.

I would much prefer to have the input of a NP/PA in addition/as a second view to the MD every single time.

Also some of the smartest people I know are NPs and PAs.

Same. I work in healthcare and have mad respect for NPs and PAs. They fill a much needed void when it comes to primary care. Even better, they fill other voids in subspecialty areas like surgery, oncology, diabetes, geriatric care, peds and more. When the medical community starts encouraging more PCP specialization, then you can request fewer NPs and PAs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a physician and one of my kids wants to go into medicine I told her that it's a long road however I told her to get her bachelors in something that can be a career by itself like engineering. I definitely told her not to become a nurse practitioner physician assistant because today's nurse practitioners and physician assistants can major in English for 4 years then go to a two year PA or NP school and then do one year residency. so basically they will only have three years of medical training compared to physician who does 4 years of medical school and four years of residency I think society deserves better medical professionals treating them than somebody who has only had three years of any medical experience -yet they can make life and death decisions. Now NP/PA who are in their 50s/60s- that is a totally different story because most of these people worked as nurses for years so they have medical experience and then later went on to college together PA or NP. I'm very surprised that some MDs up here on this board think that their child would get sufficient education in 3 years of medical training. I personally would mandate being a nurse 5 years before you can go to PA/NP school-for patient safety.

+1000

Our daughter is a nursing student in a BSN program with plans to become an NP after working in a clinical environment for a few years. The nursing program is very concentrated - two years of only nursing classes with plenty of pre-nursing and science classes in the first two years. She worked as a CNA for a year and has multiple clinicals each semester. She will graduate with hundreds off hours of clinicals before she ever works as a nurse and then will continue to acquire experience before going to NP school. I don't know how things are with other students but the students she is going to school with that want to eventually become NPs have a similar plan.
And to even apply to PA school you need at least 1000 clinical hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PS I also told her that making a salary in the 100Ks(which is guaranteed for almost all engineers and Np/PAs) is a much better lifestyle to do that as an engineer than an NP or PA.

Curious why you think engineers would have a "much better lifestyle" than NPs or PAs?? They're completely different things.

Engineers can work from home much more than medical professionals can. if you have an off day as an engineer you can make up your work on another day. if you have an off day as a medical professional you can kill someone.

FWIW, every engineer but in my near and extended family has changed careers because of the tedium of it (there are 6-7 of them); every medical professional gripes but wouldn't give it up for the world.

Sunk cost fallacy.