IB Diploma Success Stories?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You also have to realize that IB will slow down the most advanced kids. You are limited in the number of HL classes and IB is limited to the last two years of high school. My most advanced kid chose AP instead of IB at one of MCPS’ school IB programs. The key was that she has AP classes in all areas - English, Calculus, History, Govt, Sci, Foreign Language.

They really limit the number of HLs you can take? Or are you saying there just isn't a way to fit in as many as a kid would want becuase each takes 2 years?

"Each student takes at least three (but not more than four) subjects at higher level, and the remaining at standard level."

https://www.ibo.org/university-admission/support-students-transition-to-higher-education/course-selection-guidance/

This is the issue with IB. Top students will take about 15 AP’s, while IB students take at most 4 high level (HL). For the extended essay, AP also has the diploma program with AP Research and AP Seminar. Few high schools offer it, but there’s also the option for online. IB is less flexible and in my view not the best choice for the top student.

IB is 11th grade and 12th grade only. During 9th grade and 10th grade, "top students" take APs. In addition, universities give credit for IB SL classes as well as IB HL classes. For example, University of Maryland College Park: https://www.transfercredit.umd.edu/plc/IBGenEd.pdf

Not sure you actually read the link you posted. Take math for example, it only gives credit for HL for Calculus I and Statistics 100, no credit for SL. The distribution of APs is not the same over all high school years. Often strong students take 10 APs in 11th and 12th, compared to 4 HL for IB. It is still in favor of AP. You can do a combination of IB and AP but it just highlights that IB is not that great of a program on its own.

There are a lot of other SL classes that UMD does give credit for. Math is not everything. Plus if you're a math person, you're taking HL, not SL.

Are AP and IB the same? No, but then nobody said they are. HL classes are two-year classes, so yes, if your goal is to have the largest number of tests, then you should do AP, not IB.

Math is not everything, but it certainly part of the foundation for any STEM career, plus some in social sciences like Economics, I’d add business as well. I’ve seen estimates that a third of college students need to pass calculus for their major, that’s not insignificant. Math is often the reason students drop out of these majors.

Compare the IB math offering with AP. For one AP is better aligned with the typical curriculum, and it follows the sequence Alg1, Geo, Alg2, Precalc, Calculus, Statistics. IB advanced math is a mix of algebra, precalculus, calculus and statistics and often there’s material repeating or not covered in previous classes. A typical strong student that completed geometry before entering high school will have taken AP Calculus and AP statistics by the end of high school.

I’d advise anyone considering IB to compare the syllabus of AP Calculus and statistics with IB advanced math. It’s hands down better for AP. Also you’d get 180 hours instruction time in AP Calculus but only 55 hours for the calculus portion of IB. Same story for statistics. IB can be harder because it has less instruction time and it moves faster, and not because it’s more rigorous.

Or they will have taken one of the 2 HL IB math classes by the end of high school.

It's true, I think, that lots of APs is a better pathway than the IB Diploma Programme for a student who only wants to focus as much as possible on math and science classes, with a minimum of humanities, reading, writing, or thinking about thinking. Now, if you asked me, I would say that even the most STEM-focused person needs to have good communication skills. And where better to start learning those skills than in high school? But you didn't ask me.

The point was that at the end of high school both students will have two years of advanced math coursework with AP route being far more rigorous.

Your arguments are so disingenuous that they hardly deserve a response. You give an cliche example of the AP student hyper focused on stem that is not interested in reading or writing well (do those students even exist?), that wouldn’t be served well in the IB program, and argue that his interest is misplaced because it wouldn’t serve him well later in life. That’s nowhere near what’s being asked on this thread!

The real question is how would AP or IB serve a typical good student, well rounded, having interests and strengths, and taking a rigorous course load that will prepare them for college, math, science, humanities, writing and reading included.

If your writing and argumentation is a byproduct of IB, I’m not impressed.

If that's the question you're asking, then the answer is that either the many-APs route, or the IB Diploma Programme route, has the potential to serve such a student well. So why are you arguing?

Because they seem to have a vendetta against IB and a personal stake in awarding AP as the be-all, end-all.

Does PP work for the College Board? The obsession is a bit odd, tbh.

Besides as hominem attacks, can you make a cogent argument for advantages of IB, without vague generic statement like “IB is rigorous” or “colleges value IB”, or anecdotal evidence that can’t be verified or may not apply to others like “my niece said it’s awesome”?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You also have to realize that IB will slow down the most advanced kids. You are limited in the number of HL classes and IB is limited to the last two years of high school. My most advanced kid chose AP instead of IB at one of MCPS’ school IB programs. The key was that she has AP classes in all areas - English, Calculus, History, Govt, Sci, Foreign Language.

They really limit the number of HLs you can take? Or are you saying there just isn't a way to fit in as many as a kid would want becuase each takes 2 years?

"Each student takes at least three (but not more than four) subjects at higher level, and the remaining at standard level."

https://www.ibo.org/university-admission/support-students-transition-to-higher-education/course-selection-guidance/

This is the issue with IB. Top students will take about 15 AP’s, while IB students take at most 4 high level (HL). For the extended essay, AP also has the diploma program with AP Research and AP Seminar. Few high schools offer it, but there’s also the option for online. IB is less flexible and in my view not the best choice for the top student.

IB is 11th grade and 12th grade only. During 9th grade and 10th grade, "top students" take APs. In addition, universities give credit for IB SL classes as well as IB HL classes. For example, University of Maryland College Park: https://www.transfercredit.umd.edu/plc/IBGenEd.pdf

Not sure you actually read the link you posted. Take math for example, it only gives credit for HL for Calculus I and Statistics 100, no credit for SL. The distribution of APs is not the same over all high school years. Often strong students take 10 APs in 11th and 12th, compared to 4 HL for IB. It is still in favor of AP. You can do a combination of IB and AP but it just highlights that IB is not that great of a program on its own.

There are a lot of other SL classes that UMD does give credit for. Math is not everything. Plus if you're a math person, you're taking HL, not SL.

Are AP and IB the same? No, but then nobody said they are. HL classes are two-year classes, so yes, if your goal is to have the largest number of tests, then you should do AP, not IB.

Math is not everything, but it certainly part of the foundation for any STEM career, plus some in social sciences like Economics, I’d add business as well. I’ve seen estimates that a third of college students need to pass calculus for their major, that’s not insignificant. Math is often the reason students drop out of these majors.

Compare the IB math offering with AP. For one AP is better aligned with the typical curriculum, and it follows the sequence Alg1, Geo, Alg2, Precalc, Calculus, Statistics. IB advanced math is a mix of algebra, precalculus, calculus and statistics and often there’s material repeating or not covered in previous classes. A typical strong student that completed geometry before entering high school will have taken AP Calculus and AP statistics by the end of high school.

I’d advise anyone considering IB to compare the syllabus of AP Calculus and statistics with IB advanced math. It’s hands down better for AP. Also you’d get 180 hours instruction time in AP Calculus but only 55 hours for the calculus portion of IB. Same story for statistics. IB can be harder because it has less instruction time and it moves faster, and not because it’s more rigorous.

Or they will have taken one of the 2 HL IB math classes by the end of high school.

It's true, I think, that lots of APs is a better pathway than the IB Diploma Programme for a student who only wants to focus as much as possible on math and science classes, with a minimum of humanities, reading, writing, or thinking about thinking. Now, if you asked me, I would say that even the most STEM-focused person needs to have good communication skills. And where better to start learning those skills than in high school? But you didn't ask me.

The point was that at the end of high school both students will have two years of advanced math coursework with AP route being far more rigorous.

Your arguments are so disingenuous that they hardly deserve a response. You give an cliche example of the AP student hyper focused on stem that is not interested in reading or writing well (do those students even exist?), that wouldn’t be served well in the IB program, and argue that his interest is misplaced because it wouldn’t serve him well later in life. That’s nowhere near what’s being asked on this thread!

The real question is how would AP or IB serve a typical good student, well rounded, having interests and strengths, and taking a rigorous course load that will prepare them for college, math, science, humanities, writing and reading included.

If your writing and argumentation is a byproduct of IB, I’m not impressed.

If that's the question you're asking, then the answer is that either the many-APs route, or the IB Diploma Programme route, has the potential to serve such a student well. So why are you arguing?

Because they seem to have a vendetta against IB and a personal stake in awarding AP as the be-all, end-all.

Does PP work for the College Board? The obsession is a bit odd, tbh.

Or it may be that I actually think the AP is better based on some objective metrics that matter to me.

My reasons:
- Better alignment with the US curriculum
- More rigorous for math and sciences
- more flexibility on what classes to take
- easier to transfer credit to a US university

Your reasoning is that your daughter told you it was a great preparation for UMD, because she wasn’t intimidated by writing a 3000 word assignment. Sorry, but that’s not good enough for me.

IB kids take AP Calc, and if they like STEM, they also take IB Math, which is a two year math class that delves deeper into math topics.

It's true that AP credits are more transferable to college but I would not discount the benefit that IB provides in preparing students for the more rigorous writing in college, especially for non STEM majors. But, even for STEM majors who don't like writing, IB is great because it forces them to write at a higher level. My STEM oriented DC said IB made their writing so much stronger.

Why would anyone take both AP Calculus and IB HL math? There’s so much overlapping content that it’s a waste of one period. I guess the only valid reason is that HL math is not good on its own for whatever reasons (rigor, transferable college credit etc) that the student needs to supplement with AP. Curious on why your DC chose to do both. You never hear it the other way, someone taking AP calculus BC and also wanting to supplement with IB HL Math, wonder why.

If your child only took AP math, I’m not really surprised that he didn’t learn a lot of writing from it, that’s not what the class is for. How much writing did he learn in HL Math?

If she only took IB classes for writing then she’s got nothing to say about how AP would have prepared her. Tell me if she took AP English Lang and Lit, US and European history, Economics, Psychology and didn’t teach her to write, then you may have an argument.

[Anonymous]

Is it correct that students can get college credit for IB classes? Specifically the IB science classes (IB physics 1 & 2). Does anyone know how that works? This is information I received from one of the IB programs, but I wanted to confirm if anyone else is familiar.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You also have to realize that IB will slow down the most advanced kids. You are limited in the number of HL classes and IB is limited to the last two years of high school. My most advanced kid chose AP instead of IB at one of MCPS’ school IB programs. The key was that she has AP classes in all areas - English, Calculus, History, Govt, Sci, Foreign Language.

They really limit the number of HLs you can take? Or are you saying there just isn't a way to fit in as many as a kid would want becuase each takes 2 years?

"Each student takes at least three (but not more than four) subjects at higher level, and the remaining at standard level."

https://www.ibo.org/university-admission/support-students-transition-to-higher-education/course-selection-guidance/

This is the issue with IB. Top students will take about 15 AP’s, while IB students take at most 4 high level (HL). For the extended essay, AP also has the diploma program with AP Research and AP Seminar. Few high schools offer it, but there’s also the option for online. IB is less flexible and in my view not the best choice for the top student.

IB is 11th grade and 12th grade only. During 9th grade and 10th grade, "top students" take APs. In addition, universities give credit for IB SL classes as well as IB HL classes. For example, University of Maryland College Park: https://www.transfercredit.umd.edu/plc/IBGenEd.pdf

Not sure you actually read the link you posted. Take math for example, it only gives credit for HL for Calculus I and Statistics 100, no credit for SL. The distribution of APs is not the same over all high school years. Often strong students take 10 APs in 11th and 12th, compared to 4 HL for IB. It is still in favor of AP. You can do a combination of IB and AP but it just highlights that IB is not that great of a program on its own.

There are a lot of other SL classes that UMD does give credit for. Math is not everything. Plus if you're a math person, you're taking HL, not SL.

Are AP and IB the same? No, but then nobody said they are. HL classes are two-year classes, so yes, if your goal is to have the largest number of tests, then you should do AP, not IB.

Math is not everything, but it certainly part of the foundation for any STEM career, plus some in social sciences like Economics, I’d add business as well. I’ve seen estimates that a third of college students need to pass calculus for their major, that’s not insignificant. Math is often the reason students drop out of these majors.

Compare the IB math offering with AP. For one AP is better aligned with the typical curriculum, and it follows the sequence Alg1, Geo, Alg2, Precalc, Calculus, Statistics. IB advanced math is a mix of algebra, precalculus, calculus and statistics and often there’s material repeating or not covered in previous classes. A typical strong student that completed geometry before entering high school will have taken AP Calculus and AP statistics by the end of high school.

I’d advise anyone considering IB to compare the syllabus of AP Calculus and statistics with IB advanced math. It’s hands down better for AP. Also you’d get 180 hours instruction time in AP Calculus but only 55 hours for the calculus portion of IB. Same story for statistics. IB can be harder because it has less instruction time and it moves faster, and not because it’s more rigorous.

Or they will have taken one of the 2 HL IB math classes by the end of high school.

It's true, I think, that lots of APs is a better pathway than the IB Diploma Programme for a student who only wants to focus as much as possible on math and science classes, with a minimum of humanities, reading, writing, or thinking about thinking. Now, if you asked me, I would say that even the most STEM-focused person needs to have good communication skills. And where better to start learning those skills than in high school? But you didn't ask me.

The point was that at the end of high school both students will have two years of advanced math coursework with AP route being far more rigorous.

Your arguments are so disingenuous that they hardly deserve a response. You give an cliche example of the AP student hyper focused on stem that is not interested in reading or writing well (do those students even exist?), that wouldn’t be served well in the IB program, and argue that his interest is misplaced because it wouldn’t serve him well later in life. That’s nowhere near what’s being asked on this thread!

The real question is how would AP or IB serve a typical good student, well rounded, having interests and strengths, and taking a rigorous course load that will prepare them for college, math, science, humanities, writing and reading included.

If your writing and argumentation is a byproduct of IB, I’m not impressed.

If that's the question you're asking, then the answer is that either the many-APs route, or the IB Diploma Programme route, has the potential to serve such a student well. So why are you arguing?

Because they seem to have a vendetta against IB and a personal stake in awarding AP as the be-all, end-all.

Does PP work for the College Board? The obsession is a bit odd, tbh.

Besides as hominem attacks, can you make a cogent argument for advantages of IB, without vague generic statement like “IB is rigorous” or “colleges value IB”, or anecdotal evidence that can’t be verified or may not apply to others like “my niece said it’s awesome”?

If you read through this thread, there are stats, survey data and first-hand experiences from parents whose kids did the IB program and found it beneficial.

The fact you refuse to read the evidence does not mean that it's not there.

You have not presented any non-anecdotal evidence in favor of AP, despite you insisting anecdotal evidence in favor of IB is invalid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You also have to realize that IB will slow down the most advanced kids. You are limited in the number of HL classes and IB is limited to the last two years of high school. My most advanced kid chose AP instead of IB at one of MCPS’ school IB programs. The key was that she has AP classes in all areas - English, Calculus, History, Govt, Sci, Foreign Language.

They really limit the number of HLs you can take? Or are you saying there just isn't a way to fit in as many as a kid would want becuase each takes 2 years?

"Each student takes at least three (but not more than four) subjects at higher level, and the remaining at standard level."

https://www.ibo.org/university-admission/support-students-transition-to-higher-education/course-selection-guidance/

This is the issue with IB. Top students will take about 15 AP’s, while IB students take at most 4 high level (HL). For the extended essay, AP also has the diploma program with AP Research and AP Seminar. Few high schools offer it, but there’s also the option for online. IB is less flexible and in my view not the best choice for the top student.

IB is 11th grade and 12th grade only. During 9th grade and 10th grade, "top students" take APs. In addition, universities give credit for IB SL classes as well as IB HL classes. For example, University of Maryland College Park: https://www.transfercredit.umd.edu/plc/IBGenEd.pdf

Not sure you actually read the link you posted. Take math for example, it only gives credit for HL for Calculus I and Statistics 100, no credit for SL. The distribution of APs is not the same over all high school years. Often strong students take 10 APs in 11th and 12th, compared to 4 HL for IB. It is still in favor of AP. You can do a combination of IB and AP but it just highlights that IB is not that great of a program on its own.

There are a lot of other SL classes that UMD does give credit for. Math is not everything. Plus if you're a math person, you're taking HL, not SL.

Are AP and IB the same? No, but then nobody said they are. HL classes are two-year classes, so yes, if your goal is to have the largest number of tests, then you should do AP, not IB.

Math is not everything, but it certainly part of the foundation for any STEM career, plus some in social sciences like Economics, I’d add business as well. I’ve seen estimates that a third of college students need to pass calculus for their major, that’s not insignificant. Math is often the reason students drop out of these majors.

Compare the IB math offering with AP. For one AP is better aligned with the typical curriculum, and it follows the sequence Alg1, Geo, Alg2, Precalc, Calculus, Statistics. IB advanced math is a mix of algebra, precalculus, calculus and statistics and often there’s material repeating or not covered in previous classes. A typical strong student that completed geometry before entering high school will have taken AP Calculus and AP statistics by the end of high school.

I’d advise anyone considering IB to compare the syllabus of AP Calculus and statistics with IB advanced math. It’s hands down better for AP. Also you’d get 180 hours instruction time in AP Calculus but only 55 hours for the calculus portion of IB. Same story for statistics. IB can be harder because it has less instruction time and it moves faster, and not because it’s more rigorous.

Or they will have taken one of the 2 HL IB math classes by the end of high school.

It's true, I think, that lots of APs is a better pathway than the IB Diploma Programme for a student who only wants to focus as much as possible on math and science classes, with a minimum of humanities, reading, writing, or thinking about thinking. Now, if you asked me, I would say that even the most STEM-focused person needs to have good communication skills. And where better to start learning those skills than in high school? But you didn't ask me.

The point was that at the end of high school both students will have two years of advanced math coursework with AP route being far more rigorous.

Your arguments are so disingenuous that they hardly deserve a response. You give an cliche example of the AP student hyper focused on stem that is not interested in reading or writing well (do those students even exist?), that wouldn’t be served well in the IB program, and argue that his interest is misplaced because it wouldn’t serve him well later in life. That’s nowhere near what’s being asked on this thread!

The real question is how would AP or IB serve a typical good student, well rounded, having interests and strengths, and taking a rigorous course load that will prepare them for college, math, science, humanities, writing and reading included.

If your writing and argumentation is a byproduct of IB, I’m not impressed.

If that's the question you're asking, then the answer is that either the many-APs route, or the IB Diploma Programme route, has the potential to serve such a student well. So why are you arguing?

Because they seem to have a vendetta against IB and a personal stake in awarding AP as the be-all, end-all.

Does PP work for the College Board? The obsession is a bit odd, tbh.

Or it may be that I actually think the AP is better based on some objective metrics that matter to me.

My reasons:
- Better alignment with the US curriculum
- More rigorous for math and sciences
- more flexibility on what classes to take
- easier to transfer credit to a US university

Your reasoning is that your daughter told you it was a great preparation for UMD, because she wasn’t intimidated by writing a 3000 word assignment. Sorry, but that’s not good enough for me.

It's already been discussed, ad nauseum, and agreed upon that if the things you listed are your priority or your goal, then AP IS better for than IB, for exactly the reasons you stated.

If you have different goals, such as a more well-rounded curriculum that prioritizes humanities along with STEM, and want to prepare for the kind of thinking and writing colleges expect, than IB might be better.

What, exactly, are you arguing about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You also have to realize that IB will slow down the most advanced kids. You are limited in the number of HL classes and IB is limited to the last two years of high school. My most advanced kid chose AP instead of IB at one of MCPS’ school IB programs. The key was that she has AP classes in all areas - English, Calculus, History, Govt, Sci, Foreign Language.

They really limit the number of HLs you can take? Or are you saying there just isn't a way to fit in as many as a kid would want becuase each takes 2 years?

"Each student takes at least three (but not more than four) subjects at higher level, and the remaining at standard level."

https://www.ibo.org/university-admission/support-students-transition-to-higher-education/course-selection-guidance/

This is the issue with IB. Top students will take about 15 AP’s, while IB students take at most 4 high level (HL). For the extended essay, AP also has the diploma program with AP Research and AP Seminar. Few high schools offer it, but there’s also the option for online. IB is less flexible and in my view not the best choice for the top student.

IB is 11th grade and 12th grade only. During 9th grade and 10th grade, "top students" take APs. In addition, universities give credit for IB SL classes as well as IB HL classes. For example, University of Maryland College Park: https://www.transfercredit.umd.edu/plc/IBGenEd.pdf

Not sure you actually read the link you posted. Take math for example, it only gives credit for HL for Calculus I and Statistics 100, no credit for SL. The distribution of APs is not the same over all high school years. Often strong students take 10 APs in 11th and 12th, compared to 4 HL for IB. It is still in favor of AP. You can do a combination of IB and AP but it just highlights that IB is not that great of a program on its own.

There are a lot of other SL classes that UMD does give credit for. Math is not everything. Plus if you're a math person, you're taking HL, not SL.

Are AP and IB the same? No, but then nobody said they are. HL classes are two-year classes, so yes, if your goal is to have the largest number of tests, then you should do AP, not IB.

Math is not everything, but it certainly part of the foundation for any STEM career, plus some in social sciences like Economics, I’d add business as well. I’ve seen estimates that a third of college students need to pass calculus for their major, that’s not insignificant. Math is often the reason students drop out of these majors.

Compare the IB math offering with AP. For one AP is better aligned with the typical curriculum, and it follows the sequence Alg1, Geo, Alg2, Precalc, Calculus, Statistics. IB advanced math is a mix of algebra, precalculus, calculus and statistics and often there’s material repeating or not covered in previous classes. A typical strong student that completed geometry before entering high school will have taken AP Calculus and AP statistics by the end of high school.

I’d advise anyone considering IB to compare the syllabus of AP Calculus and statistics with IB advanced math. It’s hands down better for AP. Also you’d get 180 hours instruction time in AP Calculus but only 55 hours for the calculus portion of IB. Same story for statistics. IB can be harder because it has less instruction time and it moves faster, and not because it’s more rigorous.

Or they will have taken one of the 2 HL IB math classes by the end of high school.

It's true, I think, that lots of APs is a better pathway than the IB Diploma Programme for a student who only wants to focus as much as possible on math and science classes, with a minimum of humanities, reading, writing, or thinking about thinking. Now, if you asked me, I would say that even the most STEM-focused person needs to have good communication skills. And where better to start learning those skills than in high school? But you didn't ask me.

The point was that at the end of high school both students will have two years of advanced math coursework with AP route being far more rigorous.

Your arguments are so disingenuous that they hardly deserve a response. You give an cliche example of the AP student hyper focused on stem that is not interested in reading or writing well (do those students even exist?), that wouldn’t be served well in the IB program, and argue that his interest is misplaced because it wouldn’t serve him well later in life. That’s nowhere near what’s being asked on this thread!

The real question is how would AP or IB serve a typical good student, well rounded, having interests and strengths, and taking a rigorous course load that will prepare them for college, math, science, humanities, writing and reading included.

If your writing and argumentation is a byproduct of IB, I’m not impressed.

If that's the question you're asking, then the answer is that either the many-APs route, or the IB Diploma Programme route, has the potential to serve such a student well. So why are you arguing?

Because they seem to have a vendetta against IB and a personal stake in awarding AP as the be-all, end-all.

Does PP work for the College Board? The obsession is a bit odd, tbh.

Or it may be that I actually think the AP is better based on some objective metrics that matter to me.

My reasons:
- Better alignment with the US curriculum
- More rigorous for math and sciences
- more flexibility on what classes to take
- easier to transfer credit to a US university

Your reasoning is that your daughter told you it was a great preparation for UMD, because she wasn’t intimidated by writing a 3000 word assignment. Sorry, but that’s not good enough for me.

Not good enough for you for what? To have a positive personal opinion about the IB Diploma Programme? Is there a reason why your opinion of the IB Diploma Programme would matter to anybody else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You also have to realize that IB will slow down the most advanced kids. You are limited in the number of HL classes and IB is limited to the last two years of high school. My most advanced kid chose AP instead of IB at one of MCPS’ school IB programs. The key was that she has AP classes in all areas - English, Calculus, History, Govt, Sci, Foreign Language.

They really limit the number of HLs you can take? Or are you saying there just isn't a way to fit in as many as a kid would want becuase each takes 2 years?

"Each student takes at least three (but not more than four) subjects at higher level, and the remaining at standard level."

https://www.ibo.org/university-admission/support-students-transition-to-higher-education/course-selection-guidance/

This is the issue with IB. Top students will take about 15 AP’s, while IB students take at most 4 high level (HL). For the extended essay, AP also has the diploma program with AP Research and AP Seminar. Few high schools offer it, but there’s also the option for online. IB is less flexible and in my view not the best choice for the top student.

IB is 11th grade and 12th grade only. During 9th grade and 10th grade, "top students" take APs. In addition, universities give credit for IB SL classes as well as IB HL classes. For example, University of Maryland College Park: https://www.transfercredit.umd.edu/plc/IBGenEd.pdf

Not sure you actually read the link you posted. Take math for example, it only gives credit for HL for Calculus I and Statistics 100, no credit for SL. The distribution of APs is not the same over all high school years. Often strong students take 10 APs in 11th and 12th, compared to 4 HL for IB. It is still in favor of AP. You can do a combination of IB and AP but it just highlights that IB is not that great of a program on its own.

There are a lot of other SL classes that UMD does give credit for. Math is not everything. Plus if you're a math person, you're taking HL, not SL.

Are AP and IB the same? No, but then nobody said they are. HL classes are two-year classes, so yes, if your goal is to have the largest number of tests, then you should do AP, not IB.

Math is not everything, but it certainly part of the foundation for any STEM career, plus some in social sciences like Economics, I’d add business as well. I’ve seen estimates that a third of college students need to pass calculus for their major, that’s not insignificant. Math is often the reason students drop out of these majors.

Compare the IB math offering with AP. For one AP is better aligned with the typical curriculum, and it follows the sequence Alg1, Geo, Alg2, Precalc, Calculus, Statistics. IB advanced math is a mix of algebra, precalculus, calculus and statistics and often there’s material repeating or not covered in previous classes. A typical strong student that completed geometry before entering high school will have taken AP Calculus and AP statistics by the end of high school.

I’d advise anyone considering IB to compare the syllabus of AP Calculus and statistics with IB advanced math. It’s hands down better for AP. Also you’d get 180 hours instruction time in AP Calculus but only 55 hours for the calculus portion of IB. Same story for statistics. IB can be harder because it has less instruction time and it moves faster, and not because it’s more rigorous.

Or they will have taken one of the 2 HL IB math classes by the end of high school.

It's true, I think, that lots of APs is a better pathway than the IB Diploma Programme for a student who only wants to focus as much as possible on math and science classes, with a minimum of humanities, reading, writing, or thinking about thinking. Now, if you asked me, I would say that even the most STEM-focused person needs to have good communication skills. And where better to start learning those skills than in high school? But you didn't ask me.

The point was that at the end of high school both students will have two years of advanced math coursework with AP route being far more rigorous.

Your arguments are so disingenuous that they hardly deserve a response. You give an cliche example of the AP student hyper focused on stem that is not interested in reading or writing well (do those students even exist?), that wouldn’t be served well in the IB program, and argue that his interest is misplaced because it wouldn’t serve him well later in life. That’s nowhere near what’s being asked on this thread!

The real question is how would AP or IB serve a typical good student, well rounded, having interests and strengths, and taking a rigorous course load that will prepare them for college, math, science, humanities, writing and reading included.

If your writing and argumentation is a byproduct of IB, I’m not impressed.

If that's the question you're asking, then the answer is that either the many-APs route, or the IB Diploma Programme route, has the potential to serve such a student well. So why are you arguing?

Because they seem to have a vendetta against IB and a personal stake in awarding AP as the be-all, end-all.

Does PP work for the College Board? The obsession is a bit odd, tbh.

Or it may be that I actually think the AP is better based on some objective metrics that matter to me.

My reasons:
- Better alignment with the US curriculum
- More rigorous for math and sciences
- more flexibility on what classes to take
- easier to transfer credit to a US university

Your reasoning is that your daughter told you it was a great preparation for UMD, because she wasn’t intimidated by writing a 3000 word assignment. Sorry, but that’s not good enough for me.

IB kids take AP Calc, and if they like STEM, they also take IB Math, which is a two year math class that delves deeper into math topics.

It's true that AP credits are more transferable to college but I would not discount the benefit that IB provides in preparing students for the more rigorous writing in college, especially for non STEM majors. But, even for STEM majors who don't like writing, IB is great because it forces them to write at a higher level. My STEM oriented DC said IB made their writing so much stronger.

Why would anyone take both AP Calculus and IB HL math? There’s so much overlapping content that it’s a waste of one period. I guess the only valid reason is that HL math is not good on its own for whatever reasons (rigor, transferable college credit etc) that the student needs to supplement with AP. Curious on why your DC chose to do both. You never hear it the other way, someone taking AP calculus BC and also wanting to supplement with IB HL Math, wonder why.

If your child only took AP math, I’m not really surprised that he didn’t learn a lot of writing from it, that’s not what the class is for. How much writing did he learn in HL Math?

If she only took IB classes for writing then she’s got nothing to say about how AP would have prepared her. Tell me if she took AP English Lang and Lit, US and European history, Economics, Psychology and didn’t teach her to write, then you may have an argument.

Whoever is posting this really has no clue what IB HL math is or how the pathways work. AP BC Calculus is the first year of the HL sequence (or if kids do BC Calc in 10th, they take MVC in 11th).
https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2023-2024-ib-course-handbook.pdf pg 19

Also, this PP doesn't understand the science courses either. Both AP and IB science courses are rigorous and cover mostly the same content. IB has more emphasis on connections to other content areas and how science affects the world. IB also includes the Individual Assessment (IA) which in science means that students are doing their own investigation and write-up. For Biology and Chemistry, AP is usually a double period in one year and IB is a single period in 2 yrs. Roughly the same amount of class time. APES and IBESS are both 1 year courses. The AP and IB physics courses have the most differences in content, with the 2 years of IB covering more topics overall. As a different PP said, many students also take the equivalent AP test, not because somehow the IB exam is "inferior" but the IB score includes the IA. AP doesn't include anything like this in the test score. Students may choose to do the bare minimum for the IA and take the AP test knowing they can crank out a 5 on it and don't need to worry about the IB test score.

Anyway, PP clearly is trying to justify that AP is superior to IB for STEM students, when in reality it is not. It is different. Both are fine. They each have their purpose and different students gain different things from each program.

[Anonymous]

When it comes to IB there’s a lot of gaslighting and overstating mainly because the program is essentially selling an educational product. A lot of the posters just pass on the sales pitch they received. It’s a high cost program that needs to increase participation rates to make it feasible.

I’d definitely urge parents and students to check and make sure the program is right for them. You hear over and over again the from past participants that they wish they went the AP route.

People come here for advice not a sales pitch, posts should reflect that.

[Anonymous]

I did the full diploma and went to MIT. I was, by far, better prepared from a humanities perspective. I thought it was very worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When it comes to IB there’s a lot of gaslighting and overstating mainly because the program is essentially selling an educational product. A lot of the posters just pass on the sales pitch they received. It’s a high cost program that needs to increase participation rates to make it feasible.

I’d definitely urge parents and students to check and make sure the program is right for them. You hear over and over again the from past participants that they wish they went the AP route.

People come here for advice not a sales pitch, posts should reflect that.

Just like the College Board and their AP classes!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When it comes to IB there’s a lot of gaslighting and overstating mainly because the program is essentially selling an educational product. A lot of the posters just pass on the sales pitch they received. It’s a high cost program that needs to increase participation rates to make it feasible.

I’d definitely urge parents and students to check and make sure the program is right for them. You hear over and over again the from past participants that they wish they went the AP route.

People come here for advice not a sales pitch, posts should reflect that.

I've been on this forum for 10 years, and haven't heard any such thing. Link your sources. Quite frankly, you sound like you are crying "sour grapes". Did your kid not get accepted into a program?

Most of the posters sharing information here are sharing based on their real life experience with IB and their own students, not parroting a sales pitch. I think unbiased observers can discern the difference.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You also have to realize that IB will slow down the most advanced kids. You are limited in the number of HL classes and IB is limited to the last two years of high school. My most advanced kid chose AP instead of IB at one of MCPS’ school IB programs. The key was that she has AP classes in all areas - English, Calculus, History, Govt, Sci, Foreign Language.

They really limit the number of HLs you can take? Or are you saying there just isn't a way to fit in as many as a kid would want becuase each takes 2 years?

"Each student takes at least three (but not more than four) subjects at higher level, and the remaining at standard level."

https://www.ibo.org/university-admission/support-students-transition-to-higher-education/course-selection-guidance/

This is the issue with IB. Top students will take about 15 AP’s, while IB students take at most 4 high level (HL). For the extended essay, AP also has the diploma program with AP Research and AP Seminar. Few high schools offer it, but there’s also the option for online. IB is less flexible and in my view not the best choice for the top student.

IB is 11th grade and 12th grade only. During 9th grade and 10th grade, "top students" take APs. In addition, universities give credit for IB SL classes as well as IB HL classes. For example, University of Maryland College Park: https://www.transfercredit.umd.edu/plc/IBGenEd.pdf

Not sure you actually read the link you posted. Take math for example, it only gives credit for HL for Calculus I and Statistics 100, no credit for SL. The distribution of APs is not the same over all high school years. Often strong students take 10 APs in 11th and 12th, compared to 4 HL for IB. It is still in favor of AP. You can do a combination of IB and AP but it just highlights that IB is not that great of a program on its own.

There are a lot of other SL classes that UMD does give credit for. Math is not everything. Plus if you're a math person, you're taking HL, not SL.

Are AP and IB the same? No, but then nobody said they are. HL classes are two-year classes, so yes, if your goal is to have the largest number of tests, then you should do AP, not IB.

Math is not everything, but it certainly part of the foundation for any STEM career, plus some in social sciences like Economics, I’d add business as well. I’ve seen estimates that a third of college students need to pass calculus for their major, that’s not insignificant. Math is often the reason students drop out of these majors.

Compare the IB math offering with AP. For one AP is better aligned with the typical curriculum, and it follows the sequence Alg1, Geo, Alg2, Precalc, Calculus, Statistics. IB advanced math is a mix of algebra, precalculus, calculus and statistics and often there’s material repeating or not covered in previous classes. A typical strong student that completed geometry before entering high school will have taken AP Calculus and AP statistics by the end of high school.

I’d advise anyone considering IB to compare the syllabus of AP Calculus and statistics with IB advanced math. It’s hands down better for AP. Also you’d get 180 hours instruction time in AP Calculus but only 55 hours for the calculus portion of IB. Same story for statistics. IB can be harder because it has less instruction time and it moves faster, and not because it’s more rigorous.

Or they will have taken one of the 2 HL IB math classes by the end of high school.

It's true, I think, that lots of APs is a better pathway than the IB Diploma Programme for a student who only wants to focus as much as possible on math and science classes, with a minimum of humanities, reading, writing, or thinking about thinking. Now, if you asked me, I would say that even the most STEM-focused person needs to have good communication skills. And where better to start learning those skills than in high school? But you didn't ask me.

The point was that at the end of high school both students will have two years of advanced math coursework with AP route being far more rigorous.

Your arguments are so disingenuous that they hardly deserve a response. You give an cliche example of the AP student hyper focused on stem that is not interested in reading or writing well (do those students even exist?), that wouldn’t be served well in the IB program, and argue that his interest is misplaced because it wouldn’t serve him well later in life. That’s nowhere near what’s being asked on this thread!

The real question is how would AP or IB serve a typical good student, well rounded, having interests and strengths, and taking a rigorous course load that will prepare them for college, math, science, humanities, writing and reading included.

If your writing and argumentation is a byproduct of IB, I’m not impressed.

If that's the question you're asking, then the answer is that either the many-APs route, or the IB Diploma Programme route, has the potential to serve such a student well. So why are you arguing?

Because they seem to have a vendetta against IB and a personal stake in awarding AP as the be-all, end-all.

Does PP work for the College Board? The obsession is a bit odd, tbh.

Or it may be that I actually think the AP is better based on some objective metrics that matter to me.

My reasons:
- Better alignment with the US curriculum
- More rigorous for math and sciences
- more flexibility on what classes to take
- easier to transfer credit to a US university

Your reasoning is that your daughter told you it was a great preparation for UMD, because she wasn’t intimidated by writing a 3000 word assignment. Sorry, but that’s not good enough for me.

IB kids take AP Calc, and if they like STEM, they also take IB Math, which is a two year math class that delves deeper into math topics.

It's true that AP credits are more transferable to college but I would not discount the benefit that IB provides in preparing students for the more rigorous writing in college, especially for non STEM majors. But, even for STEM majors who don't like writing, IB is great because it forces them to write at a higher level. My STEM oriented DC said IB made their writing so much stronger.

Why would anyone take both AP Calculus and IB HL math? There’s so much overlapping content that it’s a waste of one period. I guess the only valid reason is that HL math is not good on its own for whatever reasons (rigor, transferable college credit etc) that the student needs to supplement with AP. Curious on why your DC chose to do both. You never hear it the other way, someone taking AP calculus BC and also wanting to supplement with IB HL Math, wonder why.

If your child only took AP math, I’m not really surprised that he didn’t learn a lot of writing from it, that’s not what the class is for. How much writing did he learn in HL Math?

If she only took IB classes for writing then she’s got nothing to say about how AP would have prepared her. Tell me if she took AP English Lang and Lit, US and European history, Economics, Psychology and didn’t teach her to write, then you may have an argument.

Whoever is posting this really has no clue what IB HL math is or how the pathways work. AP BC Calculus is the first year of the HL sequence (or if kids do BC Calc in 10th, they take MVC in 11th).
https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/rmhs/ib/2023-2024-ib-course-handbook.pdf pg 19

Also, this PP doesn't understand the science courses either. Both AP and IB science courses are rigorous and cover mostly the same content. IB has more emphasis on connections to other content areas and how science affects the world. IB also includes the Individual Assessment (IA) which in science means that students are doing their own investigation and write-up. For Biology and Chemistry, AP is usually a double period in one year and IB is a single period in 2 yrs. Roughly the same amount of class time. APES and IBESS are both 1 year courses. The AP and IB physics courses have the most differences in content, with the 2 years of IB covering more topics overall. As a different PP said, many students also take the equivalent AP test, not because somehow the IB exam is "inferior" but the IB score includes the IA. AP doesn't include anything like this in the test score. Students may choose to do the bare minimum for the IA and take the AP test knowing they can crank out a 5 on it and don't need to worry about the IB test score.

Anyway, PP clearly is trying to justify that AP is superior to IB for STEM students, when in reality it is not. It is different. Both are fine. They each have their purpose and different students gain different things from each program.

Sorry, but you’re the one who doesn’t know what you’re talking about. Multivariable calculus and differential equations is certainly not an IB course. A lot of those courses use the IB label but are not using IB curriculum so that’s a little misleading to say the least. IB classes are Analysis and approaches and Applications and Interpretations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When it comes to IB there’s a lot of gaslighting and overstating mainly because the program is essentially selling an educational product. A lot of the posters just pass on the sales pitch they received. It’s a high cost program that needs to increase participation rates to make it feasible.

I’d definitely urge parents and students to check and make sure the program is right for them. You hear over and over again the from past participants that they wish they went the AP route.

People come here for advice not a sales pitch, posts should reflect that.

Just like the College Board and their AP classes!

How much does the IB diploma program cost? Now compare that to the cost of an AP exam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When it comes to IB there’s a lot of gaslighting and overstating mainly because the program is essentially selling an educational product. A lot of the posters just pass on the sales pitch they received. It’s a high cost program that needs to increase participation rates to make it feasible.

I’d definitely urge parents and students to check and make sure the program is right for them. You hear over and over again the from past participants that they wish they went the AP route.

People come here for advice not a sales pitch, posts should reflect that.

I've been on this forum for 10 years, and haven't heard any such thing. Link your sources. Quite frankly, you sound like you are crying "sour grapes". Did your kid not get accepted into a program?

Most of the posters sharing information here are sharing based on their real life experience with IB and their own students, not parroting a sales pitch. I think unbiased observers can discern the difference.

Or you’re just patting yourself on the back about the amazing things your child did, when the reality is just meh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When it comes to IB there’s a lot of gaslighting and overstating mainly because the program is essentially selling an educational product. A lot of the posters just pass on the sales pitch they received. It’s a high cost program that needs to increase participation rates to make it feasible.

I’d definitely urge parents and students to check and make sure the program is right for them. You hear over and over again the from past participants that they wish they went the AP route.

People come here for advice not a sales pitch, posts should reflect that.

Just like the College Board and their AP classes!

How much does the IB diploma program cost? Now compare that to the cost of an AP exam.

My AP kid took 14 AP tests: 14 x $98 = $1,372

My IB kid will take 3 AP tests and 6 IB tests: (3 x $98) + (6 x $119) = $1,008

The College Board AND the IB Program are both selling educational products. if you criticize one (and I do), you have to criticize the other too (and I do).