Biden wants RTO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’re now seriously arguing that if Trump were president he wouldn’t be ordering federal workers back to the office? Really?

No Ms. Strawman, we are not arguing that because Trump is not in office and its irrelevant.
Really.

Only replying to the poster who said they wouldn’t vote Biden 2024 because of RTO. Republicans are much more hellbent on making life difficult for Feds.

This is not as clear an issue as you'd think, and I'll take my chances with a Republican if Biden continues this nonsense. For example, the former chair of FDIC was a Republican and was very pro-WFH, then she quit and now her successor, who is a Democrat, has been endlessly trying to find ways to undercut WFH, even though the CBA allows full-time WFH for most employees. The Republican former chair was pro-WFH because she thought it was good for cutting costs associated with expensive building leases.

Also, if you look back historically, pay raises for federal employees have been more generous under Republican administrations. Remember all those pay freezes under Obama? (Don't rely on the pay raise that happened in the past year, which was an anomaly in the grand scheme.)

I'm a Democrat, but while most stuff that happens at the national level really doesn't impact me, forcing me to go back to the office absolutely does, and so for the first time in my life, I will vote for a Republican president if Biden continues this effort.

Obama proposed a federal pay raise and the Republican congress blocked it, forcing a pay freeze. But ok, his fault. Have you read anything that Trump or DeSantis has said about the deep state and federal employees? If you're a single issue voter on the federal workforce this is not a close call.

This is a rewriting of history. Obama preemptively offered the two-year pay freeze because he was a terrible negotiator. There was no proposal for a pay raise that was blocked. I was a federal employee at the time, and we were shocked by it.

There was no way we were going to get pay raises during the R-forced sequestration. Come on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’re now seriously arguing that if Trump were president he wouldn’t be ordering federal workers back to the office? Really?

No Ms. Strawman, we are not arguing that because Trump is not in office and its irrelevant.
Really.

Only replying to the poster who said they wouldn’t vote Biden 2024 because of RTO. Republicans are much more hellbent on making life difficult for Feds.

This is not as clear an issue as you'd think, and I'll take my chances with a Republican if Biden continues this nonsense. For example, the former chair of FDIC was a Republican and was very pro-WFH, then she quit and now her successor, who is a Democrat, has been endlessly trying to find ways to undercut WFH, even though the CBA allows full-time WFH for most employees. The Republican former chair was pro-WFH because she thought it was good for cutting costs associated with expensive building leases.

Also, if you look back historically, pay raises for federal employees have been more generous under Republican administrations. Remember all those pay freezes under Obama? (Don't rely on the pay raise that happened in the past year, which was an anomaly in the grand scheme.)

I'm a Democrat, but while most stuff that happens at the national level really doesn't impact me, forcing me to go back to the office absolutely does, and so for the first time in my life, I will vote for a Republican president if Biden continues this effort.

I’m a fed who loves telework and think the RTO pitch is definitely driven by private sector financial interests. And I’m not some huge fan of Biden either, but there’s no way I’m voting Republican when women’s reproductive rights are being taken away and guns are one of the top killers of children in this country. I’m not giving up my morals in some total gamble that maybe a Republican will be more telework friendly. Also, remember which party is trying to decrease the power of unions, which have a huge part in negotiating telework agreements at many agencies.

It’s just such a bizarre take to vote R over this.

1. Reproductive rights aren't changing for the better anytime soon. That battle is lost. The Supreme Court is 6-3.
2. Gun deaths are out of control in DC. What have Biden and Boswer done to prevent these gun deaths?
3. How is Biden honoring unions when he seems to believe that he can single-handedly force federal employees back to the office?

Maybe you should start demanding that Biden actually show some results for your vote.

We know that Republicans that currently lead the party will make life hell for Federal employees.
I mean, Biden should do better, but he knows we have no other real options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’re now seriously arguing that if Trump were president he wouldn’t be ordering federal workers back to the office? Really?

No Ms. Strawman, we are not arguing that because Trump is not in office and its irrelevant.
Really.

Only replying to the poster who said they wouldn’t vote Biden 2024 because of RTO. Republicans are much more hellbent on making life difficult for Feds.

This is not as clear an issue as you'd think, and I'll take my chances with a Republican if Biden continues this nonsense. For example, the former chair of FDIC was a Republican and was very pro-WFH, then she quit and now her successor, who is a Democrat, has been endlessly trying to find ways to undercut WFH, even though the CBA allows full-time WFH for most employees. The Republican former chair was pro-WFH because she thought it was good for cutting costs associated with expensive building leases.

Also, if you look back historically, pay raises for federal employees have been more generous under Republican administrations. Remember all those pay freezes under Obama? (Don't rely on the pay raise that happened in the past year, which was an anomaly in the grand scheme.)

I'm a Democrat, but while most stuff that happens at the national level really doesn't impact me, forcing me to go back to the office absolutely does, and so for the first time in my life, I will vote for a Republican president if Biden continues this effort.

I’m a fed who loves telework and think the RTO pitch is definitely driven by private sector financial interests. And I’m not some huge fan of Biden either, but there’s no way I’m voting Republican when women’s reproductive rights are being taken away and guns are one of the top killers of children in this country. I’m not giving up my morals in some total gamble that maybe a Republican will be more telework friendly. Also, remember which party is trying to decrease the power of unions, which have a huge part in negotiating telework agreements at many agencies.

It’s just such a bizarre take to vote R over this.

1. Reproductive rights aren't changing for the better anytime soon. That battle is lost. The Supreme Court is 6-3.
2. Gun deaths are out of control in DC. What have Biden and Boswer done to prevent these gun deaths?
3. How is Biden honoring unions when he seems to believe that he can single-handedly force federal employees back to the office?

Maybe you should start demanding that Biden actually show some results for your vote.

We know that Republicans that currently lead the party will make life hell for Federal employees.
I mean, Biden should do better, but he knows we have no other real options.

Or maybe Biden is doing the right, and even the Democratic, thing. Democrats typically support urban centers and those areas are the most hurt by 100% WFH. As for the right thing, maybe WFH folks need to think about more than themselves. In fact, the world is pretty interconnected and the ramifications of urban decay can easily feed to areas where WFH folks thought they were isolated. The pandemic has made people extremely selfish.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I don’t buy all this BS about RTO saving cities. This is all just commercial landlord propaganda.

[Anonymous]

DC is decaying because the police can't recruit enough officers because they have been demonized; criminals don't suffer serious consequences and therefore repeat offenders are terrorizing the city; and homeless, drug-addicted people are everywhere and are highly aggressive.

Acting as though making people work in office buildings will fix these problems is stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’re now seriously arguing that if Trump were president he wouldn’t be ordering federal workers back to the office? Really?

No Ms. Strawman, we are not arguing that because Trump is not in office and its irrelevant.
Really.

Only replying to the poster who said they wouldn’t vote Biden 2024 because of RTO. Republicans are much more hellbent on making life difficult for Feds.

This is not as clear an issue as you'd think, and I'll take my chances with a Republican if Biden continues this nonsense. For example, the former chair of FDIC was a Republican and was very pro-WFH, then she quit and now her successor, who is a Democrat, has been endlessly trying to find ways to undercut WFH, even though the CBA allows full-time WFH for most employees. The Republican former chair was pro-WFH because she thought it was good for cutting costs associated with expensive building leases.

Also, if you look back historically, pay raises for federal employees have been more generous under Republican administrations. Remember all those pay freezes under Obama? (Don't rely on the pay raise that happened in the past year, which was an anomaly in the grand scheme.)

I'm a Democrat, but while most stuff that happens at the national level really doesn't impact me, forcing me to go back to the office absolutely does, and so for the first time in my life, I will vote for a Republican president if Biden continues this effort.

Obama proposed a federal pay raise and the Republican congress blocked it, forcing a pay freeze. But ok, his fault. Have you read anything that Trump or DeSantis has said about the deep state and federal employees? If you're a single issue voter on the federal workforce this is not a close call.

This is a rewriting of history. Obama preemptively offered the two-year pay freeze because he was a terrible negotiator. There was no proposal for a pay raise that was blocked. I was a federal employee at the time, and we were shocked by it.

There was no way we were going to get pay raises during the R-forced sequestration. Come on.

Two separate issues: Obama volunteered that federal employee pay should be frozen, and then separately, Congress then enacted the across the board budget cuts known as sequestration (sequestration did not include pay freezes). So, Obama screwed federal employees, then Congress screwed them even more. Great negotiation tactic!

If Biden follows this Obama playbook, he will order employees back to the office full time, then agree to additional cuts that Congress wants. So maybe if Congress wants to cut employee pay, we'll get that in addition to Biden's RTO. Thanks, Biden! With friends like this, who needs enemies?

[Anonymous]

No one is talking about lack of office space. My agency has consolidated leases. No one has a desk anymore. I don't think more than 1 day a week is possible. We are almost all remote workers now with our homes as official duty stations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’re now seriously arguing that if Trump were president he wouldn’t be ordering federal workers back to the office? Really?

No Ms. Strawman, we are not arguing that because Trump is not in office and its irrelevant.
Really.

Only replying to the poster who said they wouldn’t vote Biden 2024 because of RTO. Republicans are much more hellbent on making life difficult for Feds.

This is not as clear an issue as you'd think, and I'll take my chances with a Republican if Biden continues this nonsense. For example, the former chair of FDIC was a Republican and was very pro-WFH, then she quit and now her successor, who is a Democrat, has been endlessly trying to find ways to undercut WFH, even though the CBA allows full-time WFH for most employees. The Republican former chair was pro-WFH because she thought it was good for cutting costs associated with expensive building leases.

Also, if you look back historically, pay raises for federal employees have been more generous under Republican administrations. Remember all those pay freezes under Obama? (Don't rely on the pay raise that happened in the past year, which was an anomaly in the grand scheme.)

I'm a Democrat, but while most stuff that happens at the national level really doesn't impact me, forcing me to go back to the office absolutely does, and so for the first time in my life, I will vote for a Republican president if Biden continues this effort.

Obama proposed a federal pay raise and the Republican congress blocked it, forcing a pay freeze. But ok, his fault. Have you read anything that Trump or DeSantis has said about the deep state and federal employees? If you're a single issue voter on the federal workforce this is not a close call.

This is a rewriting of history. Obama preemptively offered the two-year pay freeze because he was a terrible negotiator. There was no proposal for a pay raise that was blocked. I was a federal employee at the time, and we were shocked by it.

There was no way we were going to get pay raises during the R-forced sequestration. Come on.

Two separate issues: Obama volunteered that federal employee pay should be frozen, and then separately, Congress then enacted the across the board budget cuts known as sequestration (sequestration did not include pay freezes). So, Obama screwed federal employees, then Congress screwed them even more. Great negotiation tactic!

If Biden follows this Obama playbook, he will order employees back to the office full time, then agree to additional cuts that Congress wants. So maybe if Congress wants to cut employee pay, we'll get that in addition to Biden's RTO. Thanks, Biden! With friends like this, who needs enemies?

The formula that they use was never going to be favorable for feds in the years post-recession. We had negative inflation in 2009. Social Security was even frozen for two years. He announced the two-year freeze after the Ds got obliterated in 2010. You could say that he should have kept it on the table for debt ceiling negotiations, but to somehow try to “both sides” the treatment of federal employees is insane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’re now seriously arguing that if Trump were president he wouldn’t be ordering federal workers back to the office? Really?

No Ms. Strawman, we are not arguing that because Trump is not in office and its irrelevant.
Really.

Only replying to the poster who said they wouldn’t vote Biden 2024 because of RTO. Republicans are much more hellbent on making life difficult for Feds.

This is not as clear an issue as you'd think, and I'll take my chances with a Republican if Biden continues this nonsense. For example, the former chair of FDIC was a Republican and was very pro-WFH, then she quit and now her successor, who is a Democrat, has been endlessly trying to find ways to undercut WFH, even though the CBA allows full-time WFH for most employees. The Republican former chair was pro-WFH because she thought it was good for cutting costs associated with expensive building leases.

Also, if you look back historically, pay raises for federal employees have been more generous under Republican administrations. Remember all those pay freezes under Obama? (Don't rely on the pay raise that happened in the past year, which was an anomaly in the grand scheme.)

I'm a Democrat, but while most stuff that happens at the national level really doesn't impact me, forcing me to go back to the office absolutely does, and so for the first time in my life, I will vote for a Republican president if Biden continues this effort.

I’m a fed who loves telework and think the RTO pitch is definitely driven by private sector financial interests. And I’m not some huge fan of Biden either, but there’s no way I’m voting Republican when women’s reproductive rights are being taken away and guns are one of the top killers of children in this country. I’m not giving up my morals in some total gamble that maybe a Republican will be more telework friendly. Also, remember which party is trying to decrease the power of unions, which have a huge part in negotiating telework agreements at many agencies.

It’s just such a bizarre take to vote R over this.

1. Reproductive rights aren't changing for the better anytime soon. That battle is lost. The Supreme Court is 6-3.
2. Gun deaths are out of control in DC. What have Biden and Boswer done to prevent these gun deaths?
3. How is Biden honoring unions when he seems to believe that he can single-handedly force federal employees back to the office?

Maybe you should start demanding that Biden actually show some results for your vote.

We know that Republicans that currently lead the party will make life hell for Federal employees.
I mean, Biden should do better, but he knows we have no other real options.

Or maybe Biden is doing the right, and even the Democratic, thing. Democrats typically support urban centers and those areas are the most hurt by 100% WFH. As for the right thing, maybe WFH folks need to think about more than themselves. In fact, the world is pretty interconnected and the ramifications of urban decay can easily feed to areas where WFH folks thought they were isolated. The pandemic has made people extremely selfish.

No, I’m not worried about “urban decay” on K st.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’re now seriously arguing that if Trump were president he wouldn’t be ordering federal workers back to the office? Really?

No Ms. Strawman, we are not arguing that because Trump is not in office and its irrelevant.
Really.

Only replying to the poster who said they wouldn’t vote Biden 2024 because of RTO. Republicans are much more hellbent on making life difficult for Feds.

This is not as clear an issue as you'd think, and I'll take my chances with a Republican if Biden continues this nonsense. For example, the former chair of FDIC was a Republican and was very pro-WFH, then she quit and now her successor, who is a Democrat, has been endlessly trying to find ways to undercut WFH, even though the CBA allows full-time WFH for most employees. The Republican former chair was pro-WFH because she thought it was good for cutting costs associated with expensive building leases.

Also, if you look back historically, pay raises for federal employees have been more generous under Republican administrations. Remember all those pay freezes under Obama? (Don't rely on the pay raise that happened in the past year, which was an anomaly in the grand scheme.)

I'm a Democrat, but while most stuff that happens at the national level really doesn't impact me, forcing me to go back to the office absolutely does, and so for the first time in my life, I will vote for a Republican president if Biden continues this effort.

I’m a fed who loves telework and think the RTO pitch is definitely driven by private sector financial interests. And I’m not some huge fan of Biden either, but there’s no way I’m voting Republican when women’s reproductive rights are being taken away and guns are one of the top killers of children in this country. I’m not giving up my morals in some total gamble that maybe a Republican will be more telework friendly. Also, remember which party is trying to decrease the power of unions, which have a huge part in negotiating telework agreements at many agencies.

It’s just such a bizarre take to vote R over this.

1. Reproductive rights aren't changing for the better anytime soon. That battle is lost. The Supreme Court is 6-3.
2. Gun deaths are out of control in DC. What have Biden and Boswer done to prevent these gun deaths?
3. How is Biden honoring unions when he seems to believe that he can single-handedly force federal employees back to the office?

Maybe you should start demanding that Biden actually show some results for your vote.

We know that Republicans that currently lead the party will make life hell for Federal employees.
I mean, Biden should do better, but he knows we have no other real options.

Or maybe Biden is doing the right, and even the Democratic, thing. Democrats typically support urban centers and those areas are the most hurt by 100% WFH. As for the right thing, maybe WFH folks need to think about more than themselves. In fact, the world is pretty interconnected and the ramifications of urban decay can easily feed to areas where WFH folks thought they were isolated. The pandemic has made people extremely selfish.

There is no “right” vs “wrong.” It’s all perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’re now seriously arguing that if Trump were president he wouldn’t be ordering federal workers back to the office? Really?

No Ms. Strawman, we are not arguing that because Trump is not in office and its irrelevant.
Really.

Only replying to the poster who said they wouldn’t vote Biden 2024 because of RTO. Republicans are much more hellbent on making life difficult for Feds.

This is not as clear an issue as you'd think, and I'll take my chances with a Republican if Biden continues this nonsense. For example, the former chair of FDIC was a Republican and was very pro-WFH, then she quit and now her successor, who is a Democrat, has been endlessly trying to find ways to undercut WFH, even though the CBA allows full-time WFH for most employees. The Republican former chair was pro-WFH because she thought it was good for cutting costs associated with expensive building leases.

Also, if you look back historically, pay raises for federal employees have been more generous under Republican administrations. Remember all those pay freezes under Obama? (Don't rely on the pay raise that happened in the past year, which was an anomaly in the grand scheme.)

I'm a Democrat, but while most stuff that happens at the national level really doesn't impact me, forcing me to go back to the office absolutely does, and so for the first time in my life, I will vote for a Republican president if Biden continues this effort.

Obama proposed a federal pay raise and the Republican congress blocked it, forcing a pay freeze. But ok, his fault. Have you read anything that Trump or DeSantis has said about the deep state and federal employees? If you're a single issue voter on the federal workforce this is not a close call.

This is a rewriting of history. Obama preemptively offered the two-year pay freeze because he was a terrible negotiator. There was no proposal for a pay raise that was blocked. I was a federal employee at the time, and we were shocked by it.

There was no way we were going to get pay raises during the R-forced sequestration. Come on.

Two separate issues: Obama volunteered that federal employee pay should be frozen, and then separately, Congress then enacted the across the board budget cuts known as sequestration (sequestration did not include pay freezes). So, Obama screwed federal employees, then Congress screwed them even more. Great negotiation tactic!

If Biden follows this Obama playbook, he will order employees back to the office full time, then agree to additional cuts that Congress wants. So maybe if Congress wants to cut employee pay, we'll get that in addition to Biden's RTO. Thanks, Biden! With friends like this, who needs enemies?

The formula that they use was never going to be favorable for feds in the years post-recession. We had negative inflation in 2009. Social Security was even frozen for two years. He announced the two-year freeze after the Ds got obliterated in 2010. You could say that he should have kept it on the table for debt ceiling negotiations, but to somehow try to “both sides” the treatment of federal employees is insane.

Google is really a treasure trove.


The pay issue has been put off but is still unresolved. The House has voted several times to extend the pay freeze by a year or more, and a budget resolution sponsored by Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), the GOP vice presidential candidate, calls for continuing the freeze through 2015.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’re now seriously arguing that if Trump were president he wouldn’t be ordering federal workers back to the office? Really?

No Ms. Strawman, we are not arguing that because Trump is not in office and its irrelevant.
Really.

Only replying to the poster who said they wouldn’t vote Biden 2024 because of RTO. Republicans are much more hellbent on making life difficult for Feds.

This is not as clear an issue as you'd think, and I'll take my chances with a Republican if Biden continues this nonsense. For example, the former chair of FDIC was a Republican and was very pro-WFH, then she quit and now her successor, who is a Democrat, has been endlessly trying to find ways to undercut WFH, even though the CBA allows full-time WFH for most employees. The Republican former chair was pro-WFH because she thought it was good for cutting costs associated with expensive building leases.

Also, if you look back historically, pay raises for federal employees have been more generous under Republican administrations. Remember all those pay freezes under Obama? (Don't rely on the pay raise that happened in the past year, which was an anomaly in the grand scheme.)

I'm a Democrat, but while most stuff that happens at the national level really doesn't impact me, forcing me to go back to the office absolutely does, and so for the first time in my life, I will vote for a Republican president if Biden continues this effort.

Obama proposed a federal pay raise and the Republican congress blocked it, forcing a pay freeze. But ok, his fault. Have you read anything that Trump or DeSantis has said about the deep state and federal employees? If you're a single issue voter on the federal workforce this is not a close call.

This is a rewriting of history. Obama preemptively offered the two-year pay freeze because he was a terrible negotiator. There was no proposal for a pay raise that was blocked. I was a federal employee at the time, and we were shocked by it.

There was no way we were going to get pay raises during the R-forced sequestration. Come on.

Two separate issues: Obama volunteered that federal employee pay should be frozen, and then separately, Congress then enacted the across the board budget cuts known as sequestration (sequestration did not include pay freezes). So, Obama screwed federal employees, then Congress screwed them even more. Great negotiation tactic!

If Biden follows this Obama playbook, he will order employees back to the office full time, then agree to additional cuts that Congress wants. So maybe if Congress wants to cut employee pay, we'll get that in addition to Biden's RTO. Thanks, Biden! With friends like this, who needs enemies?

The formula that they use was never going to be favorable for feds in the years post-recession. We had negative inflation in 2009. Social Security was even frozen for two years. He announced the two-year freeze after the Ds got obliterated in 2010. You could say that he should have kept it on the table for debt ceiling negotiations, but to somehow try to “both sides” the treatment of federal employees is insane.

Google is really a treasure trove.


The pay issue has been put off but is still unresolved. The House has voted several times to extend the pay freeze by a year or more, and a budget resolution sponsored by Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), the GOP vice presidential candidate, calls for continuing the freeze through 2015.

The thing about being a bad negotiator is that the other side will sense the weakness and try to extract even more. So Biden volunteering that he's willing to sacrifice federal employees by insisting on RTO will signal that he's not willing to stand behind them and so Republicans will now feel like they can demand more, just as happened during the Obama years. This is Negotiation 101.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a bad move. I'm a DOJ attorney, and constantly evaluating my private sector options. If WFH is reduced, I'll go with the money, understanding that I am being paid more and going in at least as often.

And the DOJ will replace you in a heartbeat. Bye!

sure. but the agency loses someone who presumably has worked there for several years over something stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a bad move. I'm a DOJ attorney, and constantly evaluating my private sector options. If WFH is reduced, I'll go with the money, understanding that I am being paid more and going in at least as often.

And the DOJ will replace you in a heartbeat. Bye!

Same, we have all of these people in their 60s and 70s threatening to retire if we return to the office and although I’d rather stay home too I hope we go back just enough for them all to retire from the jobs they’ve been sitting in for decades.

+1. They all believe they're irreplaceable. Call their bluff.

[Anonymous]

My office is paying over $1M a year for rent and utilities for a nearly empty floor of an office building in the DC suburbs. That's just one 100 FTE group out of the entire fed workforce. GAO said most federal offices have less than 25% occupancy.

SOMETHING needs to happen. Either we return to the office more, or they let these leases go (doesn't even include the federally-owned buildings around the country).