Do you think a vacation home is a good investment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone genuinely wealthy we know has at least one vacation home. Literally all of them. It's always the people without a pot to piss in who act like they're financial planning experts.

I’m in a corporate job with people making north of $500k and most that I know don’t. However, they do travel extensively.

People can own a vacation home and travel extensively like us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With hurricanes and rising tides beach property seems really risky to me. I think people also often buy when they have little kids and then find with other kids that they can’t really use it due to sports and other commitments. The people I know who use them regularly have kids who are kind of introverts and/or don’t do sports or theater or dance or anything like that.

I’ve always found it odd that people list climate change as a reason not to buy a beach house while ignoring that such a huge portion of our GDP and infrastructure are based in coastal cities.

If climate change disaster happens, we’ll all have a lot bigger problems than just a beach cottage being wrecked.

Live your best life now.

Climate change is happening, it’s getting worse (see flooding in VT and fires in Maui), and you should be sensible about where you buy. I would look up any property on the First Street Foundation’s website to see flood, fire, wind, heat risks. If you want to buy a property with a lot of risk you should just accept that you’ll likely need to rebuild at some point in a 20- year period and if it’s in a place like Florida or California you should understand that getting P&C insurance over the next few decades will only get harder and be more expensive. If you’re OK with that than go for it, but view it for what it is - a risky investment with little likelihood of a long-term return.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With hurricanes and rising tides beach property seems really risky to me. I think people also often buy when they have little kids and then find with other kids that they can’t really use it due to sports and other commitments. The people I know who use them regularly have kids who are kind of introverts and/or don’t do sports or theater or dance or anything like that.

I’ve always found it odd that people list climate change as a reason not to buy a beach house while ignoring that such a huge portion of our GDP and infrastructure are based in coastal cities.

If climate change disaster happens, we’ll all have a lot bigger problems than just a beach cottage being wrecked.

Live your best life now.

Climate change is happening, it’s getting worse (see flooding in VT and fires in Maui), and you should be sensible about where you buy. I would look up any property on the First Street Foundation’s website to see flood, fire, wind, heat risks. If you want to buy a property with a lot of risk you should just accept that you’ll likely need to rebuild at some point in a 20- year period and if it’s in a place like Florida or California you should understand that getting P&C insurance over the next few decades will only get harder and be more expensive. If you’re OK with that than go for it, but view it for what it is - a risky investment with little likelihood of a long-term return.

I took your advice and looked up the risk factors on First Street Foundation's website for both our North Carolina beach house and our Bethesda house in Sumner. Guess which one had an "extreme" level of risk for flooding? Bethesda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The negative naysayers who jump on here making vacation homes seem like such a drag to own are transparent airbnb vrbo grifters. Or poor people who hate that they know owning a second home is a signal you've made it. And lacking one makes you feel poor.

You sound crazy.

I’ve owned two houses before. It’s a pain in the ass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It depends on location, and a host of other factors, OP. To me, it is not worth the investment of my mental energy.

This. Unless you are going all the time it seems like a pain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The negative naysayers who jump on here making vacation homes seem like such a drag to own are transparent airbnb vrbo grifters. Or poor people who hate that they know owning a second home is a signal you've made it. And lacking one makes you feel poor.

You sound crazy.

I’ve owned two houses before. It’s a pain in the ass.

Yea I agree. Owning a true second home that is convenient to get to and frequently used is one thing. Owning a “vacation” home that is used less frequently, is further away, and that you rent out part of the time (either because you have to go help cover the cost or because it’s otherwise just sitting their empty) is a stressful money pit. It just doesn’t make sense practically or financially.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The negative naysayers who jump on here making vacation homes seem like such a drag to own are transparent airbnb vrbo grifters. Or poor people who hate that they know owning a second home is a signal you've made it. And lacking one makes you feel poor.

You sound crazy.

I’ve owned two houses before. It’s a pain in the ass.

I grew up with vacation homes and we have owned one for over 20 years. Pain in the butt sometimes…..sure. But wouldn’t trade it and the experiences for the world. It’s like Range Rover owners complaining their truck is always at the dealer for service issues……but they trade in for the new one when it comes out. Or private school parents complain about tuition……but their kids are private school lifers. People complain. Rich people complain. End of the day vacation homes are awesome. And every investment portfolio should have some real estate. Only owning a primary house is very abnormal past a certain income level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The negative naysayers who jump on here making vacation homes seem like such a drag to own are transparent airbnb vrbo grifters. Or poor people who hate that they know owning a second home is a signal you've made it. And lacking one makes you feel poor.

You sound crazy.

I’ve owned two houses before. It’s a pain in the ass.

I grew up with vacation homes and we have owned one for over 20 years. Pain in the butt sometimes…..sure. But wouldn’t trade it and the experiences for the world. It’s like Range Rover owners complaining their truck is always at the dealer for service issues……but they trade in for the new one when it comes out. Or private school parents complain about tuition……but their kids are private school lifers. People complain. Rich people complain. End of the day vacation homes are awesome. And every investment portfolio should have some real estate. Only owning a primary house is very abnormal past a certain income level.

It's not a good investment, but it is a good class signifier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends on location, and a host of other factors, OP. To me, it is not worth the investment of my mental energy.

+1. For me its the mental energy specifically. Maintaining our primary home is work enough. I don't need more work. I'll stick to hotels and rentals. If I were uber wealthy and a personal assistant could manage all the property maintenance and contractors maybe, but I'm not.

+1 We sold ours. There's also a huge glut of vacation homes right now since everyone and their brother started doing airbnb/vrbo etc AND insurance market is rapidly changing for areas with climate issues. Insurance for a rental property is always a lot higher. I feel we got out when we should, but I could be wrong. It was nice for about 2 years and then a hassle.

Rehoboth inventory is tighter than northern va and prices are insane. Glad we bought 18 yrs ago. House tripled in value. Will retire here and also work remote here in Rehoboth. 🍷 🏖️

How much time have you actually spent in Rehoboth in the dead of winter? I grew up in a similar beach town, and let me tell you: the winter is brutal. With the money you could get for your house, there are a thousand places that are more pleasant and interesting to retire to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We put a contract on our Bald Head Island house in October 2021, when prices had already shot up. Even so, less than 2 years later, we could sell it today for $250K more judging from recent sales.

That more than covers any negative cash flow on the monthly mortgage from not renting out the house as much as we thought we would -- because we prefer to use it during the peak weeks. And we no longer spent $30K on vacations per year (because we were taking big trips for a long time with the kids), so there's that.

I agree that owning a vacation home shouldn't be considered only from the financial point of view. There are better ways to invest. But we'll definitely see a return financially and we've been getting a lot more from this purchase than ROI. We've never regretted it for a moment!

We have very, very good friends who lost their shirts on their BHI house. I wouldn’t gloat just yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends on location, and a host of other factors, OP. To me, it is not worth the investment of my mental energy.

+1. For me its the mental energy specifically. Maintaining our primary home is work enough. I don't need more work. I'll stick to hotels and rentals. If I were uber wealthy and a personal assistant could manage all the property maintenance and contractors maybe, but I'm not.

+1 We sold ours. There's also a huge glut of vacation homes right now since everyone and their brother started doing airbnb/vrbo etc AND insurance market is rapidly changing for areas with climate issues. Insurance for a rental property is always a lot higher. I feel we got out when we should, but I could be wrong. It was nice for about 2 years and then a hassle.

Rehoboth inventory is tighter than northern va and prices are insane. Glad we bought 18 yrs ago. House tripled in value. Will retire here and also work remote here in Rehoboth. 🍷 🏖️

How much time have you actually spent in Rehoboth in the dead of winter? I grew up in a similar beach town, and let me tell you: the winter is brutal. With the money you could get for your house, there are a thousand places that are more pleasant and interesting to retire to.

Everyone has different tastes. Personally I happen to love the beach in winter. A fire in the fireplace, the sound of the wind whipping the dunes, and a walk on an empty beach wrapped in a blanket with a Yeti full of spiked hot chocolate is just as lovely to me as a warm summer day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With hurricanes and rising tides beach property seems really risky to me. I think people also often buy when they have little kids and then find with other kids that they can’t really use it due to sports and other commitments. The people I know who use them regularly have kids who are kind of introverts and/or don’t do sports or theater or dance or anything like that.

I’ve always found it odd that people list climate change as a reason not to buy a beach house while ignoring that such a huge portion of our GDP and infrastructure are based in coastal cities.

If climate change disaster happens, we’ll all have a lot bigger problems than just a beach cottage being wrecked.

Live your best life now.

Climate change is happening, it’s getting worse (see flooding in VT and fires in Maui), and you should be sensible about where you buy. I would look up any property on the First Street Foundation’s website to see flood, fire, wind, heat risks. If you want to buy a property with a lot of risk you should just accept that you’ll likely need to rebuild at some point in a 20- year period and if it’s in a place like Florida or California you should understand that getting P&C insurance over the next few decades will only get harder and be more expensive. If you’re OK with that than go for it, but view it for what it is - a risky investment with little likelihood of a long-term return.

I took your advice and looked up the risk factors on First Street Foundation's website for both our North Carolina beach house and our Bethesda house in Sumner. Guess which one had an "extreme" level of risk for flooding? Bethesda.

So you've likely doubled your risk having a primary and a secondary home in a flood risk area (I'm assuming like most NC beach houses there's significant risk if not extreme--the NC beach house we recently sold was extreme risk and was already on a trajectory of insurance policy reviews).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The negative naysayers who jump on here making vacation homes seem like such a drag to own are transparent airbnb vrbo grifters. Or poor people who hate that they know owning a second home is a signal you've made it. And lacking one makes you feel poor.

You sound crazy.

I’ve owned two houses before. It’s a pain in the ass.

I grew up with vacation homes and we have owned one for over 20 years. Pain in the butt sometimes…..sure. But wouldn’t trade it and the experiences for the world. It’s like Range Rover owners complaining their truck is always at the dealer for service issues……but they trade in for the new one when it comes out. Or private school parents complain about tuition……but their kids are private school lifers. People complain. Rich people complain. End of the day vacation homes are awesome. And every investment portfolio should have some real estate. Only owning a primary house is very abnormal past a certain income level.

No matter your money, you can only live in 1 place at a time.

The opex on a second home is astronomical unless it’s a condo or something. Taking the cost of the house out of it, taxes+insurance+lawn care/landscaping+snow removal+utilities can easily run 50k per year before repairs and maintenance. And that’s not counting high insurance costs associated with coastal areas.

Lacking a second home makes me feel rich after experiencing the money pit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With hurricanes and rising tides beach property seems really risky to me. I think people also often buy when they have little kids and then find with other kids that they can’t really use it due to sports and other commitments. The people I know who use them regularly have kids who are kind of introverts and/or don’t do sports or theater or dance or anything like that.

I’ve always found it odd that people list climate change as a reason not to buy a beach house while ignoring that such a huge portion of our GDP and infrastructure are based in coastal cities.

If climate change disaster happens, we’ll all have a lot bigger problems than just a beach cottage being wrecked.

Live your best life now.

Climate change is happening, it’s getting worse (see flooding in VT and fires in Maui), and you should be sensible about where you buy. I would look up any property on the First Street Foundation’s website to see flood, fire, wind, heat risks. If you want to buy a property with a lot of risk you should just accept that you’ll likely need to rebuild at some point in a 20- year period and if it’s in a place like Florida or California you should understand that getting P&C insurance over the next few decades will only get harder and be more expensive. If you’re OK with that than go for it, but view it for what it is - a risky investment with little likelihood of a long-term return.

I took your advice and looked up the risk factors on First Street Foundation's website for both our North Carolina beach house and our Bethesda house in Sumner. Guess which one had an "extreme" level of risk for flooding? Bethesda.

So you've likely doubled your risk having a primary and a secondary home in a flood risk area (I'm assuming like most NC beach houses there's significant risk if not extreme--the NC beach house we recently sold was extreme risk and was already on a trajectory of insurance policy reviews).

Yes - coastal flooding is a given with climate change but inland flooding is also a real risk with climate change. And inland flooding can happen in places where there is/has been extreme drought (remember what happened in California over the winter) and where there is not a recent history of flooding (Vermont example). There have been some recent articles on how climate risks have not been priced into the housing market yet but it’s worth doing the minimum amount of due diligence before buying to try to understand the risks, especially if it part of your retirement planning or you would like to pass the property on to your children. My parent’s own a house a street back from the ocean in Florida and no one in my family thinks of it as a long-term investment. My mom jokes it will be under water soon. It’s kind of sad, but that attitude is probably healthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The negative naysayers who jump on here making vacation homes seem like such a drag to own are transparent airbnb vrbo grifters. Or poor people who hate that they know owning a second home is a signal you've made it. And lacking one makes you feel poor.

You sound crazy.

I’ve owned two houses before. It’s a pain in the ass.

I grew up with vacation homes and we have owned one for over 20 years. Pain in the butt sometimes…..sure. But wouldn’t trade it and the experiences for the world. It’s like Range Rover owners complaining their truck is always at the dealer for service issues……but they trade in for the new one when it comes out. Or private school parents complain about tuition……but their kids are private school lifers. People complain. Rich people complain. End of the day vacation homes are awesome. And every investment portfolio should have some real estate. Only owning a primary house is very abnormal past a certain income level.

No matter your money, you can only live in 1 place at a time.

The opex on a second home is astronomical unless it’s a condo or something. Taking the cost of the house out of it, taxes+insurance+lawn care/landscaping+snow removal+utilities can easily run 50k per year before repairs and maintenance. And that’s not counting high insurance costs associated with coastal areas.

Lacking a second home makes me feel rich after experiencing the money pit.

I’ve had my second home for 15 years. Own it outright and the carrying costs aren’t that bad. LCOL area so taxes are cheap, insurance isn’t much, it’s a wooded area so zero landscaping or lawn maintenance. My costs are taxes ($1750), insurance ($900), utilities ($100/month electric, $100/month water, $38/month internet), pest control ($400), HOA dues ($100/year) and repairs as needed- some years I don’t need any repairs. I’d estimate all in it averages about $6k-$10k/ year to own. I definitely don’t consider it an investment and I would have done MUCH better over the years if I’d have invested in the market. But I use the house all the time and it’s so nice to have a place to go unwind. I don’t vacation there, I spent a night or two every few weeks.