DC really needs to get pot “gifting” stores under control

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't care if they are gifting or officially selling - the real problem with these stores is that they are all cash operations and there have been muggings in the nearby areas because the customers have to carry cash. The feds need to make it straight out legal so that the stores can use banks/credit cards and can thus pay taxes to make up for all of the nuisance they bring into communities.

And I'm not anti-legalization. But these are barely businesses of any sort.

Or, DC could enforce the law and close the illegal “gifting” shops.

But the D.C. government and most people in D.C. don't actually want this. What most people want is for the shops to operate legally, paying taxes and under a regulatory regime. Andy Harris, a dude from Maryland who gets to decide what the D.C. government does because he's in Congress, doesn't want this. So we don't get that.

You want the city to look at a situation where we can have either this decidedly flawed gray zone or no legalization at all and opt for no legalization at all. The city has decided to opt for the gray zone.

It should all change a bit soon, anyway, though, since they're allowing the I-71 shops to get certified under the existing medicinal marijuana regulatory system. Do you have any complaints about how the medicinal shops have operated up to now? Maybe you'll like it better when ABRA is in charge of all non-black-market weed sales in D.C. (there will also still be plenty of totally illegal drug sales regardless, I suspect).

The dubious people running the illegal “gifting” shops are not going to run out and get licensed as dispensaries. DC is still going to have to shut them down. DC isn’t pro prohibition, but we still shut down bars that don’t follow the rules.

Why would they not run out and get licensed as dispensaries? The whole point is that would allow them to keep operating without D.C. shutting them down.

Because they like having an unlicensed cash business, obviously, especially if DC isn’t going to enforce the law against then. Why would they spend the money to get licensed and on compliance?

Because D.C. will enforce the laws against gifting shops that don't get registered. ABRA will be inspecting them for tax, licensing, and health code violations, MPD has already been busting some (though federal prosecutors declined to bring charges in most cases), and the city is very clearly signaling that once they fully open up a path to medicinal licenses, you won't be able to continue to operate in the gray zone. Also, is it completely impossible to think at least some people will do the right thing because they realize they should?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't care if they are gifting or officially selling - the real problem with these stores is that they are all cash operations and there have been muggings in the nearby areas because the customers have to carry cash. The feds need to make it straight out legal so that the stores can use banks/credit cards and can thus pay taxes to make up for all of the nuisance they bring into communities.

And I'm not anti-legalization. But these are barely businesses of any sort.

Or, DC could enforce the law and close the illegal “gifting” shops.

But the D.C. government and most people in D.C. don't actually want this. What most people want is for the shops to operate legally, paying taxes and under a regulatory regime. Andy Harris, a dude from Maryland who gets to decide what the D.C. government does because he's in Congress, doesn't want this. So we don't get that.

You want the city to look at a situation where we can have either this decidedly flawed gray zone or no legalization at all and opt for no legalization at all. The city has decided to opt for the gray zone.

It should all change a bit soon, anyway, though, since they're allowing the I-71 shops to get certified under the existing medicinal marijuana regulatory system. Do you have any complaints about how the medicinal shops have operated up to now? Maybe you'll like it better when ABRA is in charge of all non-black-market weed sales in D.C. (there will also still be plenty of totally illegal drug sales regardless, I suspect).

The dubious people running the illegal “gifting” shops are not going to run out and get licensed as dispensaries. DC is still going to have to shut them down. DC isn’t pro prohibition, but we still shut down bars that don’t follow the rules.

Why would they not run out and get licensed as dispensaries? The whole point is that would allow them to keep operating without D.C. shutting them down.

Because they like having an unlicensed cash business, obviously, especially if DC isn’t going to enforce the law against then. Why would they spend the money to get licensed and on compliance?

Wait, I thought you hated pot and all potheads?! So then how would you know their personal motivations so well that you feel the ability to make such sweeping generalizations? I think you are making up fantastical stories just to perpetuate your own strange personal crusade against cannabis users.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't care if they are gifting or officially selling - the real problem with these stores is that they are all cash operations and there have been muggings in the nearby areas because the customers have to carry cash. The feds need to make it straight out legal so that the stores can use banks/credit cards and can thus pay taxes to make up for all of the nuisance they bring into communities.

And I'm not anti-legalization. But these are barely businesses of any sort.

Or, DC could enforce the law and close the illegal “gifting” shops.

But the D.C. government and most people in D.C. don't actually want this. What most people want is for the shops to operate legally, paying taxes and under a regulatory regime. Andy Harris, a dude from Maryland who gets to decide what the D.C. government does because he's in Congress, doesn't want this. So we don't get that.

You want the city to look at a situation where we can have either this decidedly flawed gray zone or no legalization at all and opt for no legalization at all. The city has decided to opt for the gray zone.

It should all change a bit soon, anyway, though, since they're allowing the I-71 shops to get certified under the existing medicinal marijuana regulatory system. Do you have any complaints about how the medicinal shops have operated up to now? Maybe you'll like it better when ABRA is in charge of all non-black-market weed sales in D.C. (there will also still be plenty of totally illegal drug sales regardless, I suspect).

The dubious people running the illegal “gifting” shops are not going to run out and get licensed as dispensaries. DC is still going to have to shut them down. DC isn’t pro prohibition, but we still shut down bars that don’t follow the rules.

+1

I don't get why anyone defends the gifting shops. They are more likely to provoke a backlash that makes pot use illegal again in the long run, because they are so poorly run, encourage/provoke crime, and often result in nuisance behavior on the street outside. Plus the issues with selling to minors. I think this is actually the goal of some people in Congress who are making it impossible for DC to set our own policy and prosecution strategies, because they benefit from being able to point at DC and say "see, legalized pot is terrible, look at all these problems it causes."

If you've ever lived in a place with actual legalized marijuana and a more developed industry around it, you'd see that the gifting shops are terrible. They are unaccountable, fly-by-night businesses just looking to make a quick buck and uninterested in long term viability or becoming a valuable part of the community in which they operate. In places like Colorado where the pot industry is totally legitimate, you don't have these issues because the industry is run by actual business people who have no interest in running a business that can be shut down next month or that attracts violent crime or causes all the neighbors to hate them.

People who love the gifting shops are stuck in the "heh heh let's go hot box your dad's car" stage of pot use. They like that it annoys people because that's part of the allure of pot to them -- being counterculture and annoying the squares. But actual pot legalization eliminates that distinction, which is actually better for everyone in the long run. Time to grow up.

[Anonymous]

Growing up = embracing sobriety and reality, not seeking obliviousness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Growing up = embracing sobriety and reality, not seeking obliviousness.

I am the one who said "time to grow up" and I have no idea from this if you agree with me or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't care if they are gifting or officially selling - the real problem with these stores is that they are all cash operations and there have been muggings in the nearby areas because the customers have to carry cash. The feds need to make it straight out legal so that the stores can use banks/credit cards and can thus pay taxes to make up for all of the nuisance they bring into communities.

And I'm not anti-legalization. But these are barely businesses of any sort.

Or, DC could enforce the law and close the illegal “gifting” shops.

But the D.C. government and most people in D.C. don't actually want this. What most people want is for the shops to operate legally, paying taxes and under a regulatory regime. Andy Harris, a dude from Maryland who gets to decide what the D.C. government does because he's in Congress, doesn't want this. So we don't get that.

You want the city to look at a situation where we can have either this decidedly flawed gray zone or no legalization at all and opt for no legalization at all. The city has decided to opt for the gray zone.

It should all change a bit soon, anyway, though, since they're allowing the I-71 shops to get certified under the existing medicinal marijuana regulatory system. Do you have any complaints about how the medicinal shops have operated up to now? Maybe you'll like it better when ABRA is in charge of all non-black-market weed sales in D.C. (there will also still be plenty of totally illegal drug sales regardless, I suspect).

The dubious people running the illegal “gifting” shops are not going to run out and get licensed as dispensaries. DC is still going to have to shut them down. DC isn’t pro prohibition, but we still shut down bars that don’t follow the rules.

+1

I don't get why anyone defends the gifting shops. They are more likely to provoke a backlash that makes pot use illegal again in the long run, because they are so poorly run, encourage/provoke crime, and often result in nuisance behavior on the street outside. Plus the issues with selling to minors. I think this is actually the goal of some people in Congress who are making it impossible for DC to set our own policy and prosecution strategies, because they benefit from being able to point at DC and say "see, legalized pot is terrible, look at all these problems it causes."

If you've ever lived in a place with actual legalized marijuana and a more developed industry around it, you'd see that the gifting shops are terrible. They are unaccountable, fly-by-night businesses just looking to make a quick buck and uninterested in long term viability or becoming a valuable part of the community in which they operate. In places like Colorado where the pot industry is totally legitimate, you don't have these issues because the industry is run by actual business people who have no interest in running a business that can be shut down next month or that attracts violent crime or causes all the neighbors to hate them.

People who love the gifting shops are stuck in the "heh heh let's go hot box your dad's car" stage of pot use. They like that it annoys people because that's part of the allure of pot to them -- being counterculture and annoying the squares. But actual pot legalization eliminates that distinction, which is actually better for everyone in the long run. Time to grow up.

You just made a bunch of assumptions and are trying to pass them off as facts.

Nobody in DC wants to have the situation that we currently do with the gifting shops. The problem is that congress (Andy Harris a Republican from MD) blocked DC from creating any regulations concerning cannabis stores. There is no other choice. We are never going to make cannabis illegal again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Growing up = embracing sobriety and reality, not seeking obliviousness.

Do you ever read fiction? Watch movies? Get a massage? Are those allowable activities for adults?

BTW cannabis IS embraced by society. If you were actually connected to reality you would know that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't care if they are gifting or officially selling - the real problem with these stores is that they are all cash operations and there have been muggings in the nearby areas because the customers have to carry cash. The feds need to make it straight out legal so that the stores can use banks/credit cards and can thus pay taxes to make up for all of the nuisance they bring into communities.

And I'm not anti-legalization. But these are barely businesses of any sort.

Or, DC could enforce the law and close the illegal “gifting” shops.

But the D.C. government and most people in D.C. don't actually want this. What most people want is for the shops to operate legally, paying taxes and under a regulatory regime. Andy Harris, a dude from Maryland who gets to decide what the D.C. government does because he's in Congress, doesn't want this. So we don't get that.

You want the city to look at a situation where we can have either this decidedly flawed gray zone or no legalization at all and opt for no legalization at all. The city has decided to opt for the gray zone.

It should all change a bit soon, anyway, though, since they're allowing the I-71 shops to get certified under the existing medicinal marijuana regulatory system. Do you have any complaints about how the medicinal shops have operated up to now? Maybe you'll like it better when ABRA is in charge of all non-black-market weed sales in D.C. (there will also still be plenty of totally illegal drug sales regardless, I suspect).

The dubious people running the illegal “gifting” shops are not going to run out and get licensed as dispensaries. DC is still going to have to shut them down. DC isn’t pro prohibition, but we still shut down bars that don’t follow the rules.

Why would they not run out and get licensed as dispensaries? The whole point is that would allow them to keep operating without D.C. shutting them down.

Because they like having an unlicensed cash business, obviously, especially if DC isn’t going to enforce the law against then. Why would they spend the money to get licensed and on compliance?

Because D.C. will enforce the laws against gifting shops that don't get registered. ABRA will be inspecting them for tax, licensing, and health code violations, MPD has already been busting some (though federal prosecutors declined to bring charges in most cases), and the city is very clearly signaling that once they fully open up a path to medicinal licenses, you won't be able to continue to operate in the gray zone. Also, is it completely impossible to think at least some people will do the right thing because they realize they should?

Well, I hope you’re right that DC will take enforcement action against the “gifting” stores that don’t get licensed. The actual medical dispensary in my neighborhood does not seem to create any nuisances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't care if they are gifting or officially selling - the real problem with these stores is that they are all cash operations and there have been muggings in the nearby areas because the customers have to carry cash. The feds need to make it straight out legal so that the stores can use banks/credit cards and can thus pay taxes to make up for all of the nuisance they bring into communities.

And I'm not anti-legalization. But these are barely businesses of any sort.

Or, DC could enforce the law and close the illegal “gifting” shops.

But the D.C. government and most people in D.C. don't actually want this. What most people want is for the shops to operate legally, paying taxes and under a regulatory regime. Andy Harris, a dude from Maryland who gets to decide what the D.C. government does because he's in Congress, doesn't want this. So we don't get that.

You want the city to look at a situation where we can have either this decidedly flawed gray zone or no legalization at all and opt for no legalization at all. The city has decided to opt for the gray zone.

It should all change a bit soon, anyway, though, since they're allowing the I-71 shops to get certified under the existing medicinal marijuana regulatory system. Do you have any complaints about how the medicinal shops have operated up to now? Maybe you'll like it better when ABRA is in charge of all non-black-market weed sales in D.C. (there will also still be plenty of totally illegal drug sales regardless, I suspect).

The dubious people running the illegal “gifting” shops are not going to run out and get licensed as dispensaries. DC is still going to have to shut them down. DC isn’t pro prohibition, but we still shut down bars that don’t follow the rules.

+1

I don't get why anyone defends the gifting shops. They are more likely to provoke a backlash that makes pot use illegal again in the long run, because they are so poorly run, encourage/provoke crime, and often result in nuisance behavior on the street outside. Plus the issues with selling to minors. I think this is actually the goal of some people in Congress who are making it impossible for DC to set our own policy and prosecution strategies, because they benefit from being able to point at DC and say "see, legalized pot is terrible, look at all these problems it causes."

If you've ever lived in a place with actual legalized marijuana and a more developed industry around it, you'd see that the gifting shops are terrible. They are unaccountable, fly-by-night businesses just looking to make a quick buck and uninterested in long term viability or becoming a valuable part of the community in which they operate. In places like Colorado where the pot industry is totally legitimate, you don't have these issues because the industry is run by actual business people who have no interest in running a business that can be shut down next month or that attracts violent crime or causes all the neighbors to hate them.

People who love the gifting shops are stuck in the "heh heh let's go hot box your dad's car" stage of pot use. They like that it annoys people because that's part of the allure of pot to them -- being counterculture and annoying the squares. But actual pot legalization eliminates that distinction, which is actually better for everyone in the long run. Time to grow up.

You just made a bunch of assumptions and are trying to pass them off as facts.

Nobody in DC wants to have the situation that we currently do with the gifting shops. The problem is that congress (Andy Harris a Republican from MD) blocked DC from creating any regulations concerning cannabis stores. There is no other choice. We are never going to make cannabis illegal again.

That’s a ridiculous attitude. Obviously DC can enforce its laws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Growing up = embracing sobriety and reality, not seeking obliviousness.

Do you ever read fiction? Watch movies? Get a massage? Are those allowable activities for adults?

BTW cannabis IS embraced by society. If you were actually connected to reality you would know that.

Great, glad you like to get high, I don’t GAF about that. I DO care about illegal headshops selling to minors, attracting crime, with crowds loitering out front smoking in the middle of the day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't care if they are gifting or officially selling - the real problem with these stores is that they are all cash operations and there have been muggings in the nearby areas because the customers have to carry cash. The feds need to make it straight out legal so that the stores can use banks/credit cards and can thus pay taxes to make up for all of the nuisance they bring into communities.

And I'm not anti-legalization. But these are barely businesses of any sort.

Or, DC could enforce the law and close the illegal “gifting” shops.

But the D.C. government and most people in D.C. don't actually want this. What most people want is for the shops to operate legally, paying taxes and under a regulatory regime. Andy Harris, a dude from Maryland who gets to decide what the D.C. government does because he's in Congress, doesn't want this. So we don't get that.

You want the city to look at a situation where we can have either this decidedly flawed gray zone or no legalization at all and opt for no legalization at all. The city has decided to opt for the gray zone.

It should all change a bit soon, anyway, though, since they're allowing the I-71 shops to get certified under the existing medicinal marijuana regulatory system. Do you have any complaints about how the medicinal shops have operated up to now? Maybe you'll like it better when ABRA is in charge of all non-black-market weed sales in D.C. (there will also still be plenty of totally illegal drug sales regardless, I suspect).

The dubious people running the illegal “gifting” shops are not going to run out and get licensed as dispensaries. DC is still going to have to shut them down. DC isn’t pro prohibition, but we still shut down bars that don’t follow the rules.

+1

I don't get why anyone defends the gifting shops. They are more likely to provoke a backlash that makes pot use illegal again in the long run, because they are so poorly run, encourage/provoke crime, and often result in nuisance behavior on the street outside. Plus the issues with selling to minors. I think this is actually the goal of some people in Congress who are making it impossible for DC to set our own policy and prosecution strategies, because they benefit from being able to point at DC and say "see, legalized pot is terrible, look at all these problems it causes."

If you've ever lived in a place with actual legalized marijuana and a more developed industry around it, you'd see that the gifting shops are terrible. They are unaccountable, fly-by-night businesses just looking to make a quick buck and uninterested in long term viability or becoming a valuable part of the community in which they operate. In places like Colorado where the pot industry is totally legitimate, you don't have these issues because the industry is run by actual business people who have no interest in running a business that can be shut down next month or that attracts violent crime or causes all the neighbors to hate them.

People who love the gifting shops are stuck in the "heh heh let's go hot box your dad's car" stage of pot use. They like that it annoys people because that's part of the allure of pot to them -- being counterculture and annoying the squares. But actual pot legalization eliminates that distinction, which is actually better for everyone in the long run. Time to grow up.

No one loves the gifting shops. People aren't defending them here, they're explaining why we're in this stupid status quo where the city is barred from proceeding with actual legalized marijuana. D.C. has attempted to have actual legalization; voters have approved it. Congress has passed laws forbidding the city from using any money to carry that policy out in any way. They're looking for alternative ways to proceed, like allowing all adults to self-certify for medicinal cards and allowing the gifting shops to get certified under the existing medicinal regulatory regime, which comes with rules, licensing, requirements, etc. Personally, while I buy marijuana very infrequently, I would MUCH rather buy it when I do from a legal, regulated, law-abiding business, and I don't have any interest in "being counterculture and annoying the squares."

But many posters here are acting as if the choice is between the status quo and full legalization, when it is not — the choice D.C. faces now is between the status quo and full criminalization, at least until they're able to shift all of the businesses that would like to be law-abiding into the ABRA-run medical regulatory model. Unfortunately, it is not possible for the city to set up rules to govern the gifting shops unless they become medicinal dispensaries or unless Congress drops the rider in the D.C. appropriations law that has led to this absurd gray market setup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't care if they are gifting or officially selling - the real problem with these stores is that they are all cash operations and there have been muggings in the nearby areas because the customers have to carry cash. The feds need to make it straight out legal so that the stores can use banks/credit cards and can thus pay taxes to make up for all of the nuisance they bring into communities.

And I'm not anti-legalization. But these are barely businesses of any sort.

Or, DC could enforce the law and close the illegal “gifting” shops.

But the D.C. government and most people in D.C. don't actually want this. What most people want is for the shops to operate legally, paying taxes and under a regulatory regime. Andy Harris, a dude from Maryland who gets to decide what the D.C. government does because he's in Congress, doesn't want this. So we don't get that.

You want the city to look at a situation where we can have either this decidedly flawed gray zone or no legalization at all and opt for no legalization at all. The city has decided to opt for the gray zone.

It should all change a bit soon, anyway, though, since they're allowing the I-71 shops to get certified under the existing medicinal marijuana regulatory system. Do you have any complaints about how the medicinal shops have operated up to now? Maybe you'll like it better when ABRA is in charge of all non-black-market weed sales in D.C. (there will also still be plenty of totally illegal drug sales regardless, I suspect).

The dubious people running the illegal “gifting” shops are not going to run out and get licensed as dispensaries. DC is still going to have to shut them down. DC isn’t pro prohibition, but we still shut down bars that don’t follow the rules.

Why would they not run out and get licensed as dispensaries? The whole point is that would allow them to keep operating without D.C. shutting them down.

Because they like having an unlicensed cash business, obviously, especially if DC isn’t going to enforce the law against then. Why would they spend the money to get licensed and on compliance?

Because D.C. will enforce the laws against gifting shops that don't get registered. ABRA will be inspecting them for tax, licensing, and health code violations, MPD has already been busting some (though federal prosecutors declined to bring charges in most cases), and the city is very clearly signaling that once they fully open up a path to medicinal licenses, you won't be able to continue to operate in the gray zone. Also, is it completely impossible to think at least some people will do the right thing because they realize they should?

Well, I hope you’re right that DC will take enforcement action against the “gifting” stores that don’t get licensed. The actual medical dispensary in my neighborhood does not seem to create any nuisances.

That's what the Council has indicated, what the mayor's office has indicated, etc. MPD has been taking enforcement action against I-71 gifting stores already, even though that's expressly counter to the policy goals the D.C. Council has supported, so I can't imagine the police will be unwilling to continue that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't care if they are gifting or officially selling - the real problem with these stores is that they are all cash operations and there have been muggings in the nearby areas because the customers have to carry cash. The feds need to make it straight out legal so that the stores can use banks/credit cards and can thus pay taxes to make up for all of the nuisance they bring into communities.

And I'm not anti-legalization. But these are barely businesses of any sort.

Or, DC could enforce the law and close the illegal “gifting” shops.

But the D.C. government and most people in D.C. don't actually want this. What most people want is for the shops to operate legally, paying taxes and under a regulatory regime. Andy Harris, a dude from Maryland who gets to decide what the D.C. government does because he's in Congress, doesn't want this. So we don't get that.

You want the city to look at a situation where we can have either this decidedly flawed gray zone or no legalization at all and opt for no legalization at all. The city has decided to opt for the gray zone.

It should all change a bit soon, anyway, though, since they're allowing the I-71 shops to get certified under the existing medicinal marijuana regulatory system. Do you have any complaints about how the medicinal shops have operated up to now? Maybe you'll like it better when ABRA is in charge of all non-black-market weed sales in D.C. (there will also still be plenty of totally illegal drug sales regardless, I suspect).

The dubious people running the illegal “gifting” shops are not going to run out and get licensed as dispensaries. DC is still going to have to shut them down. DC isn’t pro prohibition, but we still shut down bars that don’t follow the rules.

+1

I don't get why anyone defends the gifting shops. They are more likely to provoke a backlash that makes pot use illegal again in the long run, because they are so poorly run, encourage/provoke crime, and often result in nuisance behavior on the street outside. Plus the issues with selling to minors. I think this is actually the goal of some people in Congress who are making it impossible for DC to set our own policy and prosecution strategies, because they benefit from being able to point at DC and say "see, legalized pot is terrible, look at all these problems it causes."

If you've ever lived in a place with actual legalized marijuana and a more developed industry around it, you'd see that the gifting shops are terrible. They are unaccountable, fly-by-night businesses just looking to make a quick buck and uninterested in long term viability or becoming a valuable part of the community in which they operate. In places like Colorado where the pot industry is totally legitimate, you don't have these issues because the industry is run by actual business people who have no interest in running a business that can be shut down next month or that attracts violent crime or causes all the neighbors to hate them.

People who love the gifting shops are stuck in the "heh heh let's go hot box your dad's car" stage of pot use. They like that it annoys people because that's part of the allure of pot to them -- being counterculture and annoying the squares. But actual pot legalization eliminates that distinction, which is actually better for everyone in the long run. Time to grow up.

No one loves the gifting shops. People aren't defending them here, they're explaining why we're in this stupid status quo where the city is barred from proceeding with actual legalized marijuana. D.C. has attempted to have actual legalization; voters have approved it. Congress has passed laws forbidding the city from using any money to carry that policy out in any way. They're looking for alternative ways to proceed, like allowing all adults to self-certify for medicinal cards and allowing the gifting shops to get certified under the existing medicinal regulatory regime, which comes with rules, licensing, requirements, etc. Personally, while I buy marijuana very infrequently, I would MUCH rather buy it when I do from a legal, regulated, law-abiding business, and I don't have any interest in "being counterculture and annoying the squares."

But many posters here are acting as if the choice is between the status quo and full legalization, when it is not — the choice D.C. faces now is between the status quo and full criminalization, at least until they're able to shift all of the businesses that would like to be law-abiding into the ABRA-run medical regulatory model. Unfortunately, it is not possible for the city to set up rules to govern the gifting shops unless they become medicinal dispensaries or unless Congress drops the rider in the D.C. appropriations law that has led to this absurd gray market setup.

Stop excusing DC. There’s no reason DC has to allow the gifting shops to continue to break the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't care if they are gifting or officially selling - the real problem with these stores is that they are all cash operations and there have been muggings in the nearby areas because the customers have to carry cash. The feds need to make it straight out legal so that the stores can use banks/credit cards and can thus pay taxes to make up for all of the nuisance they bring into communities.

And I'm not anti-legalization. But these are barely businesses of any sort.

Or, DC could enforce the law and close the illegal “gifting” shops.

But the D.C. government and most people in D.C. don't actually want this. What most people want is for the shops to operate legally, paying taxes and under a regulatory regime. Andy Harris, a dude from Maryland who gets to decide what the D.C. government does because he's in Congress, doesn't want this. So we don't get that.

You want the city to look at a situation where we can have either this decidedly flawed gray zone or no legalization at all and opt for no legalization at all. The city has decided to opt for the gray zone.

It should all change a bit soon, anyway, though, since they're allowing the I-71 shops to get certified under the existing medicinal marijuana regulatory system. Do you have any complaints about how the medicinal shops have operated up to now? Maybe you'll like it better when ABRA is in charge of all non-black-market weed sales in D.C. (there will also still be plenty of totally illegal drug sales regardless, I suspect).

The dubious people running the illegal “gifting” shops are not going to run out and get licensed as dispensaries. DC is still going to have to shut them down. DC isn’t pro prohibition, but we still shut down bars that don’t follow the rules.

Why would they not run out and get licensed as dispensaries? The whole point is that would allow them to keep operating without D.C. shutting them down.

Because they like having an unlicensed cash business, obviously, especially if DC isn’t going to enforce the law against then. Why would they spend the money to get licensed and on compliance?

Because D.C. will enforce the laws against gifting shops that don't get registered. ABRA will be inspecting them for tax, licensing, and health code violations, MPD has already been busting some (though federal prosecutors declined to bring charges in most cases), and the city is very clearly signaling that once they fully open up a path to medicinal licenses, you won't be able to continue to operate in the gray zone. Also, is it completely impossible to think at least some people will do the right thing because they realize they should?

Well, I hope you’re right that DC will take enforcement action against the “gifting” stores that don’t get licensed. The actual medical dispensary in my neighborhood does not seem to create any nuisances.

That's what the Council has indicated, what the mayor's office has indicated, etc. MPD has been taking enforcement action against I-71 gifting stores already, even though that's expressly counter to the policy goals the D.C. Council has supported, so I can't imagine the police will be unwilling to continue that.

Really? What has MPD done?

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Anonymous wrote:I don't care if they are gifting or officially selling - the real problem with these stores is that they are all cash operations and there have been muggings in the nearby areas because the customers have to carry cash. The feds need to make it straight out legal so that the stores can use banks/credit cards and can thus pay taxes to make up for all of the nuisance they bring into communities.

And I'm not anti-legalization. But these are barely businesses of any sort.

Or, DC could enforce the law and close the illegal “gifting” shops.

But the D.C. government and most people in D.C. don't actually want this. What most people want is for the shops to operate legally, paying taxes and under a regulatory regime. Andy Harris, a dude from Maryland who gets to decide what the D.C. government does because he's in Congress, doesn't want this. So we don't get that.

You want the city to look at a situation where we can have either this decidedly flawed gray zone or no legalization at all and opt for no legalization at all. The city has decided to opt for the gray zone.

It should all change a bit soon, anyway, though, since they're allowing the I-71 shops to get certified under the existing medicinal marijuana regulatory system. Do you have any complaints about how the medicinal shops have operated up to now? Maybe you'll like it better when ABRA is in charge of all non-black-market weed sales in D.C. (there will also still be plenty of totally illegal drug sales regardless, I suspect).

The dubious people running the illegal “gifting” shops are not going to run out and get licensed as dispensaries. DC is still going to have to shut them down. DC isn’t pro prohibition, but we still shut down bars that don’t follow the rules.

+1

I don't get why anyone defends the gifting shops. They are more likely to provoke a backlash that makes pot use illegal again in the long run, because they are so poorly run, encourage/provoke crime, and often result in nuisance behavior on the street outside. Plus the issues with selling to minors. I think this is actually the goal of some people in Congress who are making it impossible for DC to set our own policy and prosecution strategies, because they benefit from being able to point at DC and say "see, legalized pot is terrible, look at all these problems it causes."

If you've ever lived in a place with actual legalized marijuana and a more developed industry around it, you'd see that the gifting shops are terrible. They are unaccountable, fly-by-night businesses just looking to make a quick buck and uninterested in long term viability or becoming a valuable part of the community in which they operate. In places like Colorado where the pot industry is totally legitimate, you don't have these issues because the industry is run by actual business people who have no interest in running a business that can be shut down next month or that attracts violent crime or causes all the neighbors to hate them.

People who love the gifting shops are stuck in the "heh heh let's go hot box your dad's car" stage of pot use. They like that it annoys people because that's part of the allure of pot to them -- being counterculture and annoying the squares. But actual pot legalization eliminates that distinction, which is actually better for everyone in the long run. Time to grow up.

No one loves the gifting shops. People aren't defending them here, they're explaining why we're in this stupid status quo where the city is barred from proceeding with actual legalized marijuana. D.C. has attempted to have actual legalization; voters have approved it. Congress has passed laws forbidding the city from using any money to carry that policy out in any way. They're looking for alternative ways to proceed, like allowing all adults to self-certify for medicinal cards and allowing the gifting shops to get certified under the existing medicinal regulatory regime, which comes with rules, licensing, requirements, etc. Personally, while I buy marijuana very infrequently, I would MUCH rather buy it when I do from a legal, regulated, law-abiding business, and I don't have any interest in "being counterculture and annoying the squares."

But many posters here are acting as if the choice is between the status quo and full legalization, when it is not — the choice D.C. faces now is between the status quo and full criminalization, at least until they're able to shift all of the businesses that would like to be law-abiding into the ABRA-run medical regulatory model. Unfortunately, it is not possible for the city to set up rules to govern the gifting shops unless they become medicinal dispensaries or unless Congress drops the rider in the D.C. appropriations law that has led to this absurd gray market setup.

Stop excusing DC. There’s no reason DC has to allow the gifting shops to continue to break the law.

Which laws specifically do you want them to stop breaking? The city isn’t going to enforce the ones against selling marijuana, no matter how often you insist here that they should.