Woman raped and robbed on northwest branch trail

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I park my car on the street overnight, with valuables in plain sight and the doors unlocked and those items get stolen, I blame the thief.

Correct. The thief stole the stuff. No thief, no theft.

There are thieves. There will always be thieves. Why on earth would you leave your valuables in plain sight, in an unlocked car, when you know someone will steal them? That’s just stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I park my car on the street overnight, with valuables in plain sight and the doors unlocked and those items get stolen, I blame the thief.

PP here - there's also the issue of comparing people to valuables in unlocked cars.

Predators see females as objects with which they can do whatever they want.

Another reason not to compare people to valuables in unlocked cars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I park my car on the street overnight, with valuables in plain sight and the doors unlocked and those items get stolen, I blame the thief.

Correct. The thief stole the stuff. No thief, no theft.

There are thieves. There will always be thieves. Why on earth would you leave your valuables in plain sight, in an unlocked car, when you know someone will steal them? That’s just stupid.

So don't do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not second guessing how these women reacted to be robbed at machete blade and one being dragged away. No one can say how they would react in that situation. I would like to think I would fight my hardest to avoid being dragged off or to stop a man from dragging my friend off. I'm going to have a talk with my hiking buddy and find out if she's willing to risk her life to save mine. I'd like to believe I would risk mine to save her.

When this thread first appeared, those of who said pretty much the same thing-fight back, do not let yourself get taken off that path--had our posts removed. Evidently, you can't even tell women to fight back now. I have no doubt in my mind that that man would never have gotten me off that trail if it were me. Of course, not blaming the victim, at all, but my husband and I have taught our teenage daughter how to defend herself and I know she would. With what the city is coming to, we have no choice.

Yes you are.

Do you believe in taking any safety precautions at all?

Person responsible for the attack: the attacker
Person not responsible for the attack: the victim, no matter what safety precautions the victim may or may not have taken

Just because there things to be learned from this tragic experience for that victim doesn't mean anybody is saying she is "responsible" for being attacked. I think it's right to remind people that there are measures one should take, as guys like this are not getting locked up and this isn't going to stop. As women, we have to stop them.

As women, we get to make our own decisions about which measures we find effective and appropriate to take.

Also, when you make comments about things the women did that you think they shouldn't have done, or things they didn't do that you think they should have done, then you're blaming the victim(s).

I understand that what you've written is the modern day twist to safety measures, but it's teaching young women to think that safety measures aren't important when they actually are. We can all appreciate that there are circumstances in which we may get hurt regardless of what we try to do, but that shouldn't mean that talking about safety equates to victim blaming. It doesn't.

On the one hand, these "safety measures" are often ineffective. On the other hand, they greatly limit women's lives. So go ahead and keep counseling women about all the things women shouldn't do, lest someone attack them. I'm done with that nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I park my car on the street overnight, with valuables in plain sight and the doors unlocked and those items get stolen, I blame the thief.

Correct. The thief stole the stuff. No thief, no theft.

There are thieves. There will always be thieves. Why on earth would you leave your valuables in plain sight, in an unlocked car, when you know someone will steal them? That’s just stupid.

There are rapists. There will always be rapists. Why on earth would two women be out walking on a trail together, knowing someone might rape them?

PP, you are ridiculous. The one to blame here is the rapist. The one to blame in the unlocked car scenario is the thief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I park my car on the street overnight, with valuables in plain sight and the doors unlocked and those items get stolen, I blame the thief.

Correct. The thief stole the stuff. No thief, no theft.

There are thieves. There will always be thieves. Why on earth would you leave your valuables in plain sight, in an unlocked car, when you know someone will steal them? That’s just stupid.

So don't do it.

I don’t. That’s the point. And I don’t get robbed when I bring my stuff inside. But if I left my stuff outside, in plain sight, knowing there are thieves, then c’mon - I’m either being deliberately obtuse or I’m an idiot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I park my car on the street overnight, with valuables in plain sight and the doors unlocked and those items get stolen, I blame the thief.

Correct. The thief stole the stuff. No thief, no theft.

There are thieves. There will always be thieves. Why on earth would you leave your valuables in plain sight, in an unlocked car, when you know someone will steal them? That’s just stupid.

So don't do it.

I don’t. That’s the point. And I don’t get robbed when I bring my stuff inside. But if I left my stuff outside, in plain sight, knowing there are thieves, then c’mon - I’m either being deliberately obtuse or I’m an idiot.

And so therefore women should...what? Avoid being in public places, knowing there are rapists?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I park my car on the street overnight, with valuables in plain sight and the doors unlocked and those items get stolen, I blame the thief.

Correct. The thief stole the stuff. No thief, no theft.

There are thieves. There will always be thieves. Why on earth would you leave your valuables in plain sight, in an unlocked car, when you know someone will steal them? That’s just stupid.

There are rapists. There will always be rapists. Why on earth would two women be out walking on a trail together, knowing someone might rape them?

PP, you are ridiculous. The one to blame here is the rapist. The one to blame in the unlocked car scenario is the thief.

I disagree. I may not be able to prevent a rape or robbery, but I will take precautions to lower the chances. To be oblivious and pretend that these things don’t happen and then wonder why they did is not a smart way to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I park my car on the street overnight, with valuables in plain sight and the doors unlocked and those items get stolen, I blame the thief.

Correct. The thief stole the stuff. No thief, no theft.

There are thieves. There will always be thieves. Why on earth would you leave your valuables in plain sight, in an unlocked car, when you know someone will steal them? That’s just stupid.

So don't do it.

I don’t. That’s the point. And I don’t get robbed when I bring my stuff inside. But if I left my stuff outside, in plain sight, knowing there are thieves, then c’mon - I’m either being deliberately obtuse or I’m an idiot.

And so therefore women should...what? Avoid being in public places, knowing there are rapists?

Common sense precautions. Don’t run on an isolated trail alone after dark. Don’t get drunk and leave a party with someone you don’t know. Don’t ever take a drink from someone when you haven’t seen them pour the drink. Stuff like that. Will this prevent 100% of all rapes? No. Will someone randomly get raped in broad daylight while walking down the street? Maybe. But I think throwing common sense precautions out the window makes no sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I park my car on the street overnight, with valuables in plain sight and the doors unlocked and those items get stolen, I blame the thief.

Correct. The thief stole the stuff. No thief, no theft.

There are thieves. There will always be thieves. Why on earth would you leave your valuables in plain sight, in an unlocked car, when you know someone will steal them? That’s just stupid.

So don't do it.

I don’t. That’s the point. And I don’t get robbed when I bring my stuff inside. But if I left my stuff outside, in plain sight, knowing there are thieves, then c’mon - I’m either being deliberately obtuse or I’m an idiot.

And so therefore women should...what? Avoid being in public places, knowing there are rapists?

Common sense precautions. Don’t run on an isolated trail alone after dark. Don’t get drunk and leave a party with someone you don’t know. Don’t ever take a drink from someone when you haven’t seen them pour the drink. Stuff like that. Will this prevent 100% of all rapes? No. Will someone randomly get raped in broad daylight while walking down the street? Maybe. But I think throwing common sense precautions out the window makes no sense.

These were two women together, sober, in broad daylight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not second guessing how these women reacted to be robbed at machete blade and one being dragged away. No one can say how they would react in that situation. I would like to think I would fight my hardest to avoid being dragged off or to stop a man from dragging my friend off. I'm going to have a talk with my hiking buddy and find out if she's willing to risk her life to save mine. I'd like to believe I would risk mine to save her.

When this thread first appeared, those of who said pretty much the same thing-fight back, do not let yourself get taken off that path--had our posts removed. Evidently, you can't even tell women to fight back now. I have no doubt in my mind that that man would never have gotten me off that trail if it were me. Of course, not blaming the victim, at all, but my husband and I have taught our teenage daughter how to defend herself and I know she would. With what the city is coming to, we have no choice.

Yes you are.

Do you believe in taking any safety precautions at all?

Person responsible for the attack: the attacker
Person not responsible for the attack: the victim, no matter what safety precautions the victim may or may not have taken

Just because there things to be learned from this tragic experience for that victim doesn't mean anybody is saying she is "responsible" for being attacked. I think it's right to remind people that there are measures one should take, as guys like this are not getting locked up and this isn't going to stop. As women, we have to stop them.

As women, we get to make our own decisions about which measures we find effective and appropriate to take.

Also, when you make comments about things the women did that you think they shouldn't have done, or things they didn't do that you think they should have done, then you're blaming the victim(s).

That's why it's just fine for a single woman to take a walk through a city like Atlanta, DC, New York in the middle of the night? Good luck with that decision.

Yes, it is just fine. If someone attacks a woman who is walking by herself at night, are you going to say, "Well, she shouldn't have been walking by herself at night!"? If you do - that's blaming the victim.

Women don't have the luxury of safety...even in daylight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I park my car on the street overnight, with valuables in plain sight and the doors unlocked and those items get stolen, I blame the thief.

Correct. The thief stole the stuff. No thief, no theft.

There are thieves. There will always be thieves. Why on earth would you leave your valuables in plain sight, in an unlocked car, when you know someone will steal them? That’s just stupid.

So don't do it.

I don’t. That’s the point. And I don’t get robbed when I bring my stuff inside. But if I left my stuff outside, in plain sight, knowing there are thieves, then c’mon - I’m either being deliberately obtuse or I’m an idiot.

And so therefore women should...what? Avoid being in public places, knowing there are rapists?

Common sense precautions. Don’t run on an isolated trail alone after dark. Don’t get drunk and leave a party with someone you don’t know. Don’t ever take a drink from someone when you haven’t seen them pour the drink. Stuff like that. Will this prevent 100% of all rapes? No. Will someone randomly get raped in broad daylight while walking down the street? Maybe. But I think throwing common sense precautions out the window makes no sense.

These were two women together, sober, in broad daylight.

That’s what I said in my post. It won’t thwart all rapes. They’re still going to happen. But I will do everything I can to lessen the chances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I park my car on the street overnight, with valuables in plain sight and the doors unlocked and those items get stolen, I blame the thief.

Correct. The thief stole the stuff. No thief, no theft.

There are thieves. There will always be thieves. Why on earth would you leave your valuables in plain sight, in an unlocked car, when you know someone will steal them? That’s just stupid.

So don't do it.

I don’t. That’s the point. And I don’t get robbed when I bring my stuff inside. But if I left my stuff outside, in plain sight, knowing there are thieves, then c’mon - I’m either being deliberately obtuse or I’m an idiot.

And so therefore women should...what? Avoid being in public places, knowing there are rapists?

Common sense precautions. Don’t run on an isolated trail alone after dark. Don’t get drunk and leave a party with someone you don’t know. Don’t ever take a drink from someone when you haven’t seen them pour the drink. Stuff like that. Will this prevent 100% of all rapes? No. Will someone randomly get raped in broad daylight while walking down the street? Maybe. But I think throwing common sense precautions out the window makes no sense.

These were two women together, sober, in broad daylight.

That’s what I said in my post. It won’t thwart all rapes. They’re still going to happen. But I will do everything I can to lessen the chances.

Two women together, sober, in broad daylight, so you ... advise women not to run on an isolated trail after dark, don't get drunk and leave a party with someone they don't know, etc. etc. Why?

I have done a lot of things women are told not to do lest someone rape them, and not been raped. Why? Because there was no potential rapist on the scene. That's the determining factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I park my car on the street overnight, with valuables in plain sight and the doors unlocked and those items get stolen, I blame the thief.

Correct. The thief stole the stuff. No thief, no theft.

There are thieves. There will always be thieves. Why on earth would you leave your valuables in plain sight, in an unlocked car, when you know someone will steal them? That’s just stupid.

So don't do it.

I don’t. That’s the point. And I don’t get robbed when I bring my stuff inside. But if I left my stuff outside, in plain sight, knowing there are thieves, then c’mon - I’m either being deliberately obtuse or I’m an idiot.

And so therefore women should...what? Avoid being in public places, knowing there are rapists?

Common sense precautions. Don’t run on an isolated trail alone after dark. Don’t get drunk and leave a party with someone you don’t know. Don’t ever take a drink from someone when you haven’t seen them pour the drink. Stuff like that. Will this prevent 100% of all rapes? No. Will someone randomly get raped in broad daylight while walking down the street? Maybe. But I think throwing common sense precautions out the window makes no sense.

These were two women together, sober, in broad daylight.

That’s what I said in my post. It won’t thwart all rapes. They’re still going to happen. But I will do everything I can to lessen the chances.

Two women together, sober, in broad daylight, so you ... advise women not to run on an isolated trail after dark, don't get drunk and leave a party with someone they don't know, etc. etc. Why?

I have done a lot of things women are told not to do lest someone rape them, and not been raped. Why? Because there was no potential rapist on the scene. That's the determining factor.

I don’t want to argue. You can continue to do the things that I consider risky. I myself will not. To each his own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not second guessing how these women reacted to be robbed at machete blade and one being dragged away. No one can say how they would react in that situation. I would like to think I would fight my hardest to avoid being dragged off or to stop a man from dragging my friend off. I'm going to have a talk with my hiking buddy and find out if she's willing to risk her life to save mine. I'd like to believe I would risk mine to save her.

When this thread first appeared, those of who said pretty much the same thing-fight back, do not let yourself get taken off that path--had our posts removed. Evidently, you can't even tell women to fight back now. I have no doubt in my mind that that man would never have gotten me off that trail if it were me. Of course, not blaming the victim, at all, but my husband and I have taught our teenage daughter how to defend herself and I know she would. With what the city is coming to, we have no choice.

Yes you are.

Do you believe in taking any safety precautions at all?

Person responsible for the attack: the attacker
Person not responsible for the attack: the victim, no matter what safety precautions the victim may or may not have taken

Just because there things to be learned from this tragic experience for that victim doesn't mean anybody is saying she is "responsible" for being attacked. I think it's right to remind people that there are measures one should take, as guys like this are not getting locked up and this isn't going to stop. As women, we have to stop them.

As women, we get to make our own decisions about which measures we find effective and appropriate to take.

Also, when you make comments about things the women did that you think they shouldn't have done, or things they didn't do that you think they should have done, then you're blaming the victim(s).

I understand that what you've written is the modern day twist to safety measures, but it's teaching young women to think that safety measures aren't important when they actually are. We can all appreciate that there are circumstances in which we may get hurt regardless of what we try to do, but that shouldn't mean that talking about safety equates to victim blaming. It doesn't.

On the one hand, these "safety measures" are often ineffective. On the other hand, they greatly limit women's lives. So go ahead and keep counseling women about all the things women shouldn't do, lest someone attack them. I'm done with that nonsense.

Not nonsense. But you keep taking chances.