Algebra 2 is currently offered at TPMS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the current 8th graders, Cold Spring allowed them to take AIM when they were 5th grader (I guess that's why there is Algebra 2 at TPMS this year.) But the following year Cold Spring stopped allowing 5th graders to take AIM (the current 7th graders). So I would think there would be no Algebra 2 at TPMS next year.

Nope that's not why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Algebra 2 is currently offered at TPMS, but anticipated not for next year as there will be not enough kids at this level. Opening the class or not is mainly dependent on if there's enough kids to join, and of course if there's enough teaching resources available. Half of the current class (~ 6 kids) is not from cold spring. They are all highly engaged and motivated and achieving high MAP-M scores (300ish). Half of the class qualifies this year's AIME.

I think the logic of opening Alg 2 at MS is very simple. If you have enough talented and self-motivated kids, then opening a class is logistically more reasonable. Otherwise, letting them attending HS 1st period is a good idea. I totally can't understand the resentment and equal-for-all argument fuss in this thread. If you think your kid can skip AIM, then fight for your kid. This is really case-by-case, and not being able to skip is not the end of the world. Life is a long run...

I am not sure why you can’t understand the resentment and equal-for-all fuss. Some kids are able to check a box and enroll in the course in some schools, others have to advocate extensively and take a placement test indicating they’ve already learned Algebra 1 to be placed in Algebra 1, others are told no matter what “talent or self-motivation” or scores they have, their school won’t place them, and others in one particular elementary school sort of got handed a path on a silver platter. And many of these kids aren’t necessarily more gifted, they’ve just spent lots of time and money outside school supplementing. You can’t understand why the idea that a school district that literally prides itself in “equity” and giving students what they need, is artificially rationing opportunities and arbitrarily condoning random policy decisions on placement based on a student’s home address rather than extensive academic data, would be frustrating for families?

Nailed it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the current 8th graders, Cold Spring allowed them to take AIM when they were 5th grader (I guess that's why there is Algebra 2 at TPMS this year.) But the following year Cold Spring stopped allowing 5th graders to take AIM (the current 7th graders). So I would think there would be no Algebra 2 at TPMS next year.

Cold Spring represent!! They make up about half the class this year so we have them to thank for it being offered locally. Any idea why they stopped offering AIM to 5th graders?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Algebra 2 is currently offered at TPMS, but anticipated not for next year as there will be not enough kids at this level. Opening the class or not is mainly dependent on if there's enough kids to join, and of course if there's enough teaching resources available. Half of the current class (~ 6 kids) is not from cold spring. They are all highly engaged and motivated and achieving high MAP-M scores (300ish). Half of the class qualifies this year's AIME.

I think the logic of opening Alg 2 at MS is very simple. If you have enough talented and self-motivated kids, then opening a class is logistically more reasonable. Otherwise, letting them attending HS 1st period is a good idea. I totally can't understand the resentment and equal-for-all argument fuss in this thread. If you think your kid can skip AIM, then fight for your kid. This is really case-by-case, and not being able to skip is not the end of the world. Life is a long run...

I am not sure why you can’t understand the resentment and equal-for-all fuss. Some kids are able to check a box and enroll in the course in some schools, others have to advocate extensively and take a placement test indicating they’ve already learned Algebra 1 to be placed in Algebra 1, others are told no matter what “talent or self-motivation” or scores they have, their school won’t place them, and others in one particular elementary school sort of got handed a path on a silver platter. And many of these kids aren’t necessarily more gifted, they’ve just spent lots of time and money outside school supplementing. You can’t understand why the idea that a school district that literally prides itself in “equity” and giving students what they need, is artificially rationing opportunities and arbitrarily condoning random policy decisions on placement based on a student’s home address rather than extensive academic data, would be frustrating for families?

PP here. As one of the cold spring CES parents, we fight for the AIM class not as a group, but individually to the principal level. Then the principal is made aware that multiple students may have the need to get accelerated, check the MAP score and progress of every student, checked the feedback from teachers, and made the decision on the individual basis with the support of a teacher who is willing to teach the AIM class. We are very thankful to the open-mind and supportiveness of teachers and principal, but just so you know it's not happened by magic. As parents, you should always fight for your kids if you see the need. Some of the kids do not get the luck to go TP afterwards, but they shine still in all kinds of math contests because they are self-motivated and move ahead no matter school supports or not. Again if school is really against your idea to accelerate your well-deserved child, it's not the end of world. Supporting them yourself.

[Anonymous]

My child did not go to Cold Spring but knows several exceptional students who went there and it just happens to be a place where kids interest in math is supported by the school and by the families there.

These students continue to do well at TPMS or wherever they go to school and also excel at Blair if they decide to go there.

Nothing is being handed to them. It's just an environment where math is valued. It's like going to a school where the football team is treated special or a school where a lot of kids are into performing arts and the administration throws all kind of money at those activities.

It's upsetting when your child is not in that environment but spending so much time putting down those kids and those families is just immature. Then you brought the idea of equity into the argument which is so disingenuous. You don't care about equity. You are having a tantrum because you think your child is smarter than he or is probably is and you want to have someone to blame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child did not go to Cold Spring but knows several exceptional students who went there and it just happens to be a place where kids interest in math is supported by the school and by the families there.

These students continue to do well at TPMS or wherever they go to school and also excel at Blair if they decide to go there.

Nothing is being handed to them. It's just an environment where math is valued. It's like going to a school where the football team is treated special or a school where a lot of kids are into performing arts and the administration throws all kind of money at those activities.

It's upsetting when your child is not in that environment but spending so much time putting down those kids and those families is just immature. Then you brought the idea of equity into the argument which is so disingenuous. You don't care about equity. You are having a tantrum because you think your child is smarter than he or is probably is and you want to have someone to blame.

Just wanted to correct two things. I never said I cared about equity. I said the school district cares about equity. They absolutely do, whether they carry it out properly is a whole other debate, but you cannot possibly argue it is not a huge MCPS priority. My point was that the capriciousness of math placement is incongruous with any possible definition of equity you could possibly imagine. Equity either means giving each individual what he/she/they need OR some feel it means giving unequal support to individuals to achieve similar outcomes. What they’re doing with math placement is neither of these two definitions, so my point is that their actions do not match their words.

Furthermore, I am not putting anyone down or having a tantrum. I’m not jealous that your school is rah rah over math. I’m literally just pointing out that in a public school system, something like standard math pathways should be fair and data driven, and not randomly based on whether your principal is a math cheerleader or a football enthusiast.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the current 8th graders, Cold Spring allowed them to take AIM when they were 5th grader (I guess that's why there is Algebra 2 at TPMS this year.) But the following year Cold Spring stopped allowing 5th graders to take AIM (the current 7th graders). So I would think there would be no Algebra 2 at TPMS next year.

Cold Spring represent!! They make up about half the class this year so we have them to thank for it being offered locally. Any idea why they stopped offering AIM to 5th graders?

I have no idea. I witnessed in the past decade or so, pretty much arbitrary decisions back and forth in terms of math acceleration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They are not rationing opportunities based on home address. The process is capricious and based on the whims of the math department and principal at each individual school.

At our W middle school no one is allowed to accelerate but a friend's child at a DCC school was allowed to accelerate.

You’re responding to me, and we actually agree. You literally made my point. Because you are zoned for your W school based on your address, your child isn’t allowed to accelerate. Your friend has a DCC address and her school is giving her this opportunity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are not rationing opportunities based on home address. The process is capricious and based on the whims of the math department and principal at each individual school.

At our W middle school no one is allowed to accelerate but a friend's child at a DCC school was allowed to accelerate.

You’re responding to me, and we actually agree. You literally made my point. Because you are zoned for your W school based on your address, your child isn’t allowed to accelerate. Your friend has a DCC address and her school is giving her this opportunity.

Our DCC school doesn't allow it either. Wish the county would stop rationing these opportunities and make this available to all students based on consistent standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Algebra 2 is currently offered at TPMS, but anticipated not for next year as there will be not enough kids at this level. Opening the class or not is mainly dependent on if there's enough kids to join, and of course if there's enough teaching resources available. Half of the current class (~ 6 kids) is not from cold spring. They are all highly engaged and motivated and achieving high MAP-M scores (300ish). Half of the class qualifies this year's AIME.

I think the logic of opening Alg 2 at MS is very simple. If you have enough talented and self-motivated kids, then opening a class is logistically more reasonable. Otherwise, letting them attending HS 1st period is a good idea. I totally can't understand the resentment and equal-for-all argument fuss in this thread. If you think your kid can skip AIM, then fight for your kid. This is really case-by-case, and not being able to skip is not the end of the world. Life is a long run...

I am not sure why you can’t understand the resentment and equal-for-all fuss. Some kids are able to check a box and enroll in the course in some schools, others have to advocate extensively and take a placement test indicating they’ve already learned Algebra 1 to be placed in Algebra 1, others are told no matter what “talent or self-motivation” or scores they have, their school won’t place them, and others in one particular elementary school sort of got handed a path on a silver platter. And many of these kids aren’t necessarily more gifted, they’ve just spent lots of time and money outside school supplementing. You can’t understand why the idea that a school district that literally prides itself in “equity” and giving students what they need, is artificially rationing opportunities and arbitrarily condoning random policy decisions on placement based on a student’s home address rather than extensive academic data, would be frustrating for families?

PP here. As one of the cold spring CES parents, we fight for the AIM class not as a group, but individually to the principal level. Then the principal is made aware that multiple students may have the need to get accelerated, check the MAP score and progress of every student, checked the feedback from teachers, and made the decision on the individual basis with the support of a teacher who is willing to teach the AIM class. We are very thankful to the open-mind and supportiveness of teachers and principal, but just so you know it's not happened by magic. As parents, you should always fight for your kids if you see the need. Some of the kids do not get the luck to go TP afterwards, but they shine still in all kinds of math contests because they are self-motivated and move ahead no matter school supports or not. Again if school is really against your idea to accelerate your well-deserved child, it's not the end of world. Supporting them yourself.

Just curious what grade is your child currently. Because right now, I don't think Cold Spring would allow anyone to take AIM no matter how advanced they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are not rationing opportunities based on home address. The process is capricious and based on the whims of the math department and principal at each individual school.

At our W middle school no one is allowed to accelerate but a friend's child at a DCC school was allowed to accelerate.

You’re responding to me, and we actually agree. You literally made my point. Because you are zoned for your W school based on your address, your child isn’t allowed to accelerate. Your friend has a DCC address and her school is giving her this opportunity.

Our DCC school doesn't allow it either. Wish the county would stop rationing these opportunities and make this available to all students based on consistent standards.

It's the individual schools making the decisions, and FWIW I think the county has the right philosophy that the principals know their students and their community the best. But it's not like the county is completely checked out. This information is a few years old but we were told that the county had to sign off on each and every child that was accelerated. The school would make recommendations but they would have to get another layer of approval. If your school has decided not to make those recommendations or if you disagreed with the school about whether your child was ready that's a different story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the current 8th graders, Cold Spring allowed them to take AIM when they were 5th grader (I guess that's why there is Algebra 2 at TPMS this year.) But the following year Cold Spring stopped allowing 5th graders to take AIM (the current 7th graders). So I would think there would be no Algebra 2 at TPMS next year.

Cold Spring represent!! They make up about half the class this year so we have them to thank for it being offered locally. Any idea why they stopped offering AIM to 5th graders?

The switch in the magnet admissions process is important to this discussion. The 8th graders are the only class in all of MCPS I think that went through universal selection for both elementary for Cold Spring CES and for the TPMS magnet. The 6th and 7th graders were selected by lottery. The 9th graders I think were selected by universal selection just for MS but not for ES magnets. There is a completely different type of student in that year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child did not go to Cold Spring but knows several exceptional students who went there and it just happens to be a place where kids interest in math is supported by the school and by the families there.

These students continue to do well at TPMS or wherever they go to school and also excel at Blair if they decide to go there.

Nothing is being handed to them. It's just an environment where math is valued. It's like going to a school where the football team is treated special or a school where a lot of kids are into performing arts and the administration throws all kind of money at those activities.

It's upsetting when your child is not in that environment but spending so much time putting down those kids and those families is just immature. Then you brought the idea of equity into the argument which is so disingenuous. You don't care about equity. You are having a tantrum because you think your child is smarter than he or is probably is and you want to have someone to blame.

Just wanted to correct two things. I never said I cared about equity. I said the school district cares about equity. They absolutely do, whether they carry it out properly is a whole other debate, but you cannot possibly argue it is not a huge MCPS priority. My point was that the capriciousness of math placement is incongruous with any possible definition of equity you could possibly imagine. Equity either means giving each individual what he/she/they need OR some feel it means giving unequal support to individuals to achieve similar outcomes. What they’re doing with math placement is neither of these two definitions, so my point is that their actions do not match their words.

Furthermore, I am not putting anyone down or having a tantrum. I’m not jealous that your school is rah rah over math. I’m literally just pointing out that in a public school system, something like standard math pathways should be fair and data driven, and not randomly based on whether your principal is a math cheerleader or a football enthusiast.

They don't care about equity. If they did they''d use the money they have on the students and truly meet their needs vs. all the wasteful spending. I wouldn't want my 5th grader in AIM as I think it's too young to take pre-algebra. However, come 6th, going directly to Algebra was fine. AIM is helpful and a good idea but most of these kids are skipping it and doing just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the current 8th graders, Cold Spring allowed them to take AIM when they were 5th grader (I guess that's why there is Algebra 2 at TPMS this year.) But the following year Cold Spring stopped allowing 5th graders to take AIM (the current 7th graders). So I would think there would be no Algebra 2 at TPMS next year.

Cold Spring represent!! They make up about half the class this year so we have them to thank for it being offered locally. Any idea why they stopped offering AIM to 5th graders?

The switch in the magnet admissions process is important to this discussion. The 8th graders are the only class in all of MCPS I think that went through universal selection for both elementary for Cold Spring CES and for the TPMS magnet. The 6th and 7th graders were selected by lottery. The 9th graders I think were selected by universal selection just for MS but not for ES magnets. There is a completely different type of student in that year.

The lottery is not so much an issue as the fact they don't have enough slots for all the gifted kids who need/deserve it. Anyone consistently scoring over 95 (maybe even 92% ranges) should be let in.

[Anonymous]

The elementary magnets used to be called the highly gifted centers. 95th percentile is not highly gifted.