Writing in elementary school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I’ve been really disappointed with my third graders writing. He isn’t capitalizing proper names, leaving spaces between words and not using punctuation. He teacher makes no corrections for these things. Shouldn’t she correct these mistakes do he learns the correct way to write? I’m very disappointed with the lack of writing instruction. He has never had any writing home or spelling words for all of third grade! Is this just me or are others having the same issues in FCPS?

It’s just you.

They aren’t going to be churning out serials like Dickens at this age.

There is no excuse for the teacher not to correct those mistakes. That is first grade stuff! They don’t need to be writing novels but sentence level mechanics should be better than that in third grade. My second grader at Catholic school had trouble with all that last year and it was always corrected. Now he is good other than misspelling tougher words like fascinating. We are coming back to FCPS for third because a younger sibling’s needs cannot be met in Catholic school and this kind of thing makes me nervous. I think math and science will be better in FCPS but I’m expecting language arts to be disappointing. I guess I will have to keep him progressing on these things at home. Ugh.

FCPS pacing guide for writing said something about how correcting errors can hurt their feelings. I am not kidding. During student teaching elsewhere we did mark errors in colorful pen. They didn’t use Calkins so they taught spelling, grammar, etc. Came to FCPS where they never had spelling tests and the gifted kids struggled with writing. I corrected errors in attempt to teach the correct way but was told numerous times to stop because it could hurt their feelings.

I am really not kidding. I lasted one year because it hurt my head. Many parents seemed to want things that were normal in the schools I had been in before, but admins and others above me just kept telling me no.

Lurking here, considering going back to teaching. Just want to do it somewhere with a more classical approach to ELA instruction. Anyway, don’t blame the teachers. Complain to those above them. Unless you’re very seasoned, you can’t really get away with just teaching whatever you want and however you want, even if we are talking about safe things like marking corrections or explicit writing instruction.

how can a parent view a pacing guide?

You’d probably have to request a copy from the principal or teacher.

They guard it zealously. We couldn't get a copy of it even when our school closed in spring 2020.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You need to send your child to Catholic school if you want quality writing instruction. They've always been known for it.

But their science is math is lesser, imo (former Catholic School graduate).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child is a wonderful writer. She has worked with me throughout her childhood on wiring in her diary, poems, essays, etc.

It’s really not impossible to teach your child to write. It only takes doing a small amount consistently.

Parent, the buck stops with you. Not the schools.

And I do. But I shouldn't have to at the level I do. That's the point.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:During the pandemic I was shocked to learn my 11th grader, who was struggling to work on a large, complex paper, had never been taught to make an outline. FCPS is horrible about teaching fundamental writing skills.

Not sure if this is true. Often teachers teach things and kids forget. This is common year to year.

Completely true. I confirmed with older sibling who is FCPS graduate now in college. They had never seen anything like a structured outline before.

Also true for my Hs'er. But I have addressed that with her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child is a wonderful writer. She has worked with me throughout her childhood on wiring in her diary, poems, essays, etc.

It’s really not impossible to teach your child to write. It only takes doing a small amount consistently.

Parent, the buck stops with you. Not the schools.

I fundamentally disagree with this. The point of schools is to teach children. Some parents are not great teachers. The idea that you have to send your child to school and THEN do all of the real work after your tired kid comes home and you finish your workday is just not the way this is supposed to work.

That said, if my FCPS would like to send HOMEWORK home that I could do with my 3rd grader to help her learn grammar or spelling of fractions etc, that's fine. But there is no homework sent home. Let's bring back homework.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, PP, that should be "help her learn grammar or spelling or fractions etc..."


I would not spend a lot of time working with her on the spelling of fractions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is a wonderful writer. She has worked with me throughout her childhood on wiring in her diary, poems, essays, etc.

It’s really not impossible to teach your child to write. It only takes doing a small amount consistently.

Parent, the buck stops with you. Not the schools.

I fundamentally disagree with this. The point of schools is to teach children. Some parents are not great teachers. The idea that you have to send your child to school and THEN do all of the real work after your tired kid comes home and you finish your workday is just not the way this is supposed to work.

That said, if my FCPS would like to send HOMEWORK home that I could do with my 3rd grader to help her learn grammar or spelling of fractions etc, that's fine. But there is no homework sent home. Let's bring back homework.

Homework is not equitable.

[Anonymous]

Yes, we need homework! I don’t care if it’s graded, my kids need practice. It’s unbelievable that there are no spelling words to write sentences with, math problems, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we need homework! I don’t care if it’s graded, my kids need practice. It’s unbelievable that there are no spelling words to write sentences with, math problems, etc.

Yes. Agree 100 percent! Would welcome a chance to see my kid working on some of these basics at home where I can see/help him. My third grader is supposedly learning multiplication but they aren't practicing the table as apparently memorizing facts is no longer something that we do in schools? I don't get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we need homework! I don’t care if it’s graded, my kids need practice. It’s unbelievable that there are no spelling words to write sentences with, math problems, etc.

Then buy a workbook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we need homework! I don’t care if it’s graded, my kids need practice. It’s unbelievable that there are no spelling words to write sentences with, math problems, etc.

Then buy a workbook.

The last thing teachers need is to grade homework. If you're worried about your kid, then get a workbook and grade it yourself. Or if you're too lazy, get a tutor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is a wonderful writer. She has worked with me throughout her childhood on wiring in her diary, poems, essays, etc.

It’s really not impossible to teach your child to write. It only takes doing a small amount consistently.

Parent, the buck stops with you. Not the schools.

I fundamentally disagree with this. The point of schools is to teach children. Some parents are not great teachers. The idea that you have to send your child to school and THEN do all of the real work after your tired kid comes home and you finish your workday is just not the way this is supposed to work.

That said, if my FCPS would like to send HOMEWORK home that I could do with my 3rd grader to help her learn grammar or spelling of fractions etc, that's fine. But there is no homework sent home. Let's bring back homework.

Let's not. The child is in school for 6 hours and 40 minutes. Most of their day is structured. Do we really need to continue it once the school day ends? They practice in school. What if the child does the homework incorrectly and nobody is available to monitor? That's now an incorrect understanding that is further cemented that has to be undone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, we need homework! I don’t care if it’s graded, my kids need practice. It’s unbelievable that there are no spelling words to write sentences with, math problems, etc.

Then buy a workbook.

The last thing teachers need is to grade homework. If you're worried about your kid, then get a workbook and grade it yourself. Or if you're too lazy, get a tutor.

+1
Why would teachers grade hw? How would they know if the hw was done independently or how much help the child had?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m a teacher. Our third graders have taken personal narratives, “all about books”, content area research, realistic fiction and poetry through the writing process. They planned, drafted, revised and edited their work. They met with peers and teachers in writing conferences. Their writing was graded using the FCPS rubrics. Our focus lessons have covered punctuation, capitalization, paragraphing, etc.

this is that Lucy Calkins garbage. With her method she does not teach sentence structure, grammar, and spelling.

+1. There are no lessons and practice on each grammar component any longer. They just ask the kids to simply write a personal narrative, for example. They have not taught parts of speech, possession, apostrophes, rules, etc. Just slop some words down with no eye to run on sentence or diversifying sentence structure. Kids are expected to have intuition that a sentence needs a subject and predicate. It’s sad.

This may be school specific. I teach 2nd and have lessons from FCPS (in the pacing guide) on apostrophes, possession, etc.

+1
Third grade.

+1
I don't know where people are getting the idea that there is no grammar, formal aspects of writing taught in FCPS. It's been a part of every grade level of both of my kids' K-8th grade education in FCPS. It's in the FCPS curriculum and pacing guides and they consistently do exercises. I've volunteered at school (pre-pandemic) and I've seen them doing the exercises. There is also free writing where the emphasis is not on teaching grammar, but they have received plenty of formal writing instruction. I'm not sure where parents are getting the idea that it's not taught in FCPS.

Because after you teach it once, it needs to be reinforced. And reinforced in a way that ties it all together and in which the teacher gives actual red ink back showing the mistakes. Not just attaching some dumb rubric circling the things that are wrong generally, but not specifically. That is not happening. It has never happened in our 10 years (so far) of FCPS.

Red ink back shows the mistakes. That's about it. Meeting with the student in a writing conference during the writing process and afterward to discuss the "mistakes" helps the student understand. The whole class instruction happens during the daily focus lesson. Of course instruction also occurs 1:1 during a conference. We have 50 minutes every day for writing. A lot can get done in that amount of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is a wonderful writer. She has worked with me throughout her childhood on wiring in her diary, poems, essays, etc.

It’s really not impossible to teach your child to write. It only takes doing a small amount consistently.

Parent, the buck stops with you. Not the schools.

I fundamentally disagree with this. The point of schools is to teach children. Some parents are not great teachers. The idea that you have to send your child to school and THEN do all of the real work after your tired kid comes home and you finish your workday is just not the way this is supposed to work.

That said, if my FCPS would like to send HOMEWORK home that I could do with my 3rd grader to help her learn grammar or spelling of fractions etc, that's fine. But there is no homework sent home. Let's bring back homework.

Let's not. The child is in school for 6 hours and 40 minutes. Most of their day is structured. Do we really need to continue it once the school day ends? They practice in school. What if the child does the homework incorrectly and nobody is available to monitor? That's now an incorrect understanding that is further cemented that has to be undone.

Yes they do.

Unless you are happy with mediocre results.