Job is relocating - which city to choose; Baltimore or Norfolk?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a family who enjoys a great city with lots of charm, history, fun things to do- but also needs good schools, Towson is where you need to be. While not directly in the city, it is about 20 min away. Towson is a nice college town with walkability and good public schools.

My DH is from Norfolk and he'll never move back.

I’m raising my kids here and I hope they don’t move back when they’re adults. That said, it’s not a half-bad place to grow up, despite our public schools that many will warn you about. There is still a feeling of community here. There are rarely more than two or three degrees of separation between any two people. People of different income levels and political preferences live in close proximity and are cordial to each other for the most part. People aren’t obsessed with their jobs and most are able to have a pretty desirable work-life balance. Travel sports aren’t really a huge thing. There is sort of an ease in the low expectations, but someone who is too tightly wound or status-obsessed might find that jarring.

I'm the PP with the DH who won't move back and he would agree with you and with his large extended family it is not a good thing LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a family who enjoys a great city with lots of charm, history, fun things to do- but also needs good schools, Towson is where you need to be. While not directly in the city, it is about 20 min away. Towson is a nice college town with walkability and good public schools.

My DH is from Norfolk and he'll never move back.

I’m raising my kids here and I hope they don’t move back when they’re adults. That said, it’s not a half-bad place to grow up, despite our public schools that many will warn you about. There is still a feeling of community here. There are rarely more than two or three degrees of separation between any two people. People of different income levels and political preferences live in close proximity and are cordial to each other for the most part. People aren’t obsessed with their jobs and most are able to have a pretty desirable work-life balance. Travel sports aren’t really a huge thing. There is sort of an ease in the low expectations, but someone who is too tightly wound or status-obsessed might find that jarring.

I'm the PP with the DH who won't move back and he would agree with you and with his large extended family it is not a good thing LOL.

That’s funny, and I bet I would know at least one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You should move to Columbia or Ellicott City in Howard County and have him do the short commute into Baltimore.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The difference between Baltimore and a lot of other cities is that in Baltimore the neighborhoods are much more patchwork so many nice areas are in close proximity to run down areas. Unlike, say, DC which you can characterize somewhat accurately by quadrant.

The Baltimore suburbs are like suburbs everywhere and run the gamut from cookie cutter to quirky.

You are describing Philadelphia, not Baltimore.

[Anonymous]

I think there are enough pros in favor of Baltimore to tip the scale that way. There are a handful of neighborhoods that meet OP's definition. (Also look at Annapolis if your DH is willing to drive more, or look at towns along the train lines if he's willing to take the train.) But no one has mentioned how easy it is to do other things from Baltimore as a starting point: Great airport. DC within an hour for easy day trips to the museums. Philadelphia and NY easy distances. Easy to get to the Eastern Shore or Jersey Shore. If visiting any of those places, or taking your kids to any of those places, is important to you, Baltimore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those recommending Baltimore to a Midwesterner from a "small city" are almost criminal. OP, do some more homework. Baltimore would be a shock to you- it's a city of despair: high crime, vacant buildings, and dysfunctional city gov. With small kids, it is absolutely a non-starter. Suburban southern Maryland counties have their own problems, too, when it comes to education. I know of what I speak having traveled there often and having family who have worked in the city at Hopkins for decades. Do not go there- you'll regret it.

Norfolk is safer and cleaner- you can drive to NC, DC, etc if you need a change of scenery. Virginia is a wonderful state to call home.

You are ridiculous human being.

OP, try to talk to people who actually have first-hand experience of raising kids in the area you’re interested in, not idiots on DCUM who have “traveled there often” and saw something that made them run shrieking back to their Virginia McMansion.

Downtown Baltimore is great to visit and has lots of fun kid stuff, but you have to be very intentional about schools, and likely go private unless you get lucky in the charter lottery. There are terrific schools a short commute into Baltimore County, though.

Or live in Roland a park or amount Washington. And there are more affordable parochial alternatives to the independent privates both inside and outside the city,

There are a handful of application only public high schools in Baltimore that are good, namely City, Poly, and the School for the Arts. It is very true that most kids in North Baltimore city go to private or parochial high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think there are enough pros in favor of Baltimore to tip the scale that way. There are a handful of neighborhoods that meet OP's definition. (Also look at Annapolis if your DH is willing to drive more, or look at towns along the train lines if he's willing to take the train.) But no one has mentioned how easy it is to do other things from Baltimore as a starting point: Great airport. DC within an hour for easy day trips to the museums. Philadelphia and NY easy distances. Easy to get to the Eastern Shore or Jersey Shore. If visiting any of those places, or taking your kids to any of those places, is important to you, Baltimore.

I'm a PP who mentioned those exact things! Glad there's at least two of us.

(and that factor alone would seal the deal for me)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those recommending Baltimore to a Midwesterner from a "small city" are almost criminal. OP, do some more homework. Baltimore would be a shock to you- it's a city of despair: high crime, vacant buildings, and dysfunctional city gov. With small kids, it is absolutely a non-starter. Suburban southern Maryland counties have their own problems, too, when it comes to education. I know of what I speak having traveled there often and having family who have worked in the city at Hopkins for decades. Do not go there- you'll regret it.

Norfolk is safer and cleaner- you can drive to NC, DC, etc if you need a change of scenery. Virginia is a wonderful state to call home.

You're not mentioning that Norfolk would be a 3 HOUR drive from DC, and that's through the dregs of rural VA with nothing but gas stations and fast food restaurants. Baltimore is 45 minutes from DC and close to Philly as well, and a straight shot up to NYC if you wanted to go there. That extra 4 HOURS that you will have in Norfolk makes you basically stranded in the middle of VA, with only rural NC and Tennessee nearby. Norfolk is a dumb and also has some of the worst and most dangerous drivers in the country (these are facts, not something I just decided. Look up where Virginia ranks as a state with driving and Norfolk within that if you doubt me)

Baltimore definitely has rough parts, but it's also got really nice, highly educated suburbs and really cute parts of the city. Baltimore is called "Charm City" for a reason. There is the very tony Eastern Shore brigade that lives nearby, so it's not all some dangerous area. You definitely have to be careful, but that goes for most cities. I would choose Baltimore in a heartbeat. You're also super close to all the nature you would get in Norfolk. You have the natural beauty of Maryland (nickname "little America" because of the diversity of all the different geographies in the state- has mountains, rivers, lakes, the beach, forests, fields, etc) and Pennsylvania and even WV, and access to water/ocean being a very short drive. Honestly, it's Baltimore with no contest. If the OP is a very traditional midwestern housewife type, she will certainly fit in with the preppy subset that makes up Maryland. Most people in Norfolk are just kind of trashy and walk around in oversized Tshirts with sports teams on it.

[Anonymous]

Easy enough to live in Virginia Beach if you work in Norfolk.

[Anonymous]

But how often really do most people take tourist trips from DC/Baltimore to NYC or Philly? I'd rather be 20-30 minutes from the BEACH in Norfolk! Talk about a quality of life change.

[Anonymous]

You can buy a mansion in a great neighborhood coming from NOVA to Norfolk. No brainer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those recommending Baltimore to a Midwesterner from a "small city" are almost criminal. OP, do some more homework. Baltimore would be a shock to you- it's a city of despair: high crime, vacant buildings, and dysfunctional city gov. With small kids, it is absolutely a non-starter. Suburban southern Maryland counties have their own problems, too, when it comes to education. I know of what I speak having traveled there often and having family who have worked in the city at Hopkins for decades. Do not go there- you'll regret it.

Norfolk is safer and cleaner- you can drive to NC, DC, etc if you need a change of scenery. Virginia is a wonderful state to call home.

You're not mentioning that Norfolk would be a 3 HOUR drive from DC, and that's through the dregs of rural VA with nothing but gas stations and fast food restaurants. Baltimore is 45 minutes from DC and close to Philly as well, and a straight shot up to NYC if you wanted to go there. That extra 4 HOURS that you will have in Norfolk makes you basically stranded in the middle of VA, with only rural NC and Tennessee nearby. Norfolk is a dumb and also has some of the worst and most dangerous drivers in the country (these are facts, not something I just decided. Look up where Virginia ranks as a state with driving and Norfolk within that if you doubt me)

Baltimore definitely has rough parts, but it's also got really nice, highly educated suburbs and really cute parts of the city. Baltimore is called "Charm City" for a reason. There is the very tony Eastern Shore brigade that lives nearby, so it's not all some dangerous area. You definitely have to be careful, but that goes for most cities. I would choose Baltimore in a heartbeat. You're also super close to all the nature you would get in Norfolk. You have the natural beauty of Maryland (nickname "little America" because of the diversity of all the different geographies in the state- has mountains, rivers, lakes, the beach, forests, fields, etc) and Pennsylvania and even WV, and access to water/ocean being a very short drive. Honestly, it's Baltimore with no contest. If the OP is a very traditional midwestern housewife type, she will certainly fit in with the preppy subset that makes up Maryland. Most people in Norfolk are just kind of trashy and walk around in oversized Tshirts with sports teams on it.

Your description of all the things you'll be doing when you live in Baltimore is a fantasy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those recommending Baltimore to a Midwesterner from a "small city" are almost criminal. OP, do some more homework. Baltimore would be a shock to you- it's a city of despair: high crime, vacant buildings, and dysfunctional city gov. With small kids, it is absolutely a non-starter. Suburban southern Maryland counties have their own problems, too, when it comes to education. I know of what I speak having traveled there often and having family who have worked in the city at Hopkins for decades. Do not go there- you'll regret it.

Norfolk is safer and cleaner- you can drive to NC, DC, etc if you need a change of scenery. Virginia is a wonderful state to call home.

You're not mentioning that Norfolk would be a 3 HOUR drive from DC, and that's through the dregs of rural VA with nothing but gas stations and fast food restaurants. Baltimore is 45 minutes from DC and close to Philly as well, and a straight shot up to NYC if you wanted to go there. That extra 4 HOURS that you will have in Norfolk makes you basically stranded in the middle of VA, with only rural NC and Tennessee nearby. Norfolk is a dumb and also has some of the worst and most dangerous drivers in the country (these are facts, not something I just decided. Look up where Virginia ranks as a state with driving and Norfolk within that if you doubt me)

Baltimore definitely has rough parts, but it's also got really nice, highly educated suburbs and really cute parts of the city. Baltimore is called "Charm City" for a reason. There is the very tony Eastern Shore brigade that lives nearby, so it's not all some dangerous area. You definitely have to be careful, but that goes for most cities. I would choose Baltimore in a heartbeat. You're also super close to all the nature you would get in Norfolk. You have the natural beauty of Maryland (nickname "little America" because of the diversity of all the different geographies in the state- has mountains, rivers, lakes, the beach, forests, fields, etc) and Pennsylvania and even WV, and access to water/ocean being a very short drive. Honestly, it's Baltimore with no contest. If the OP is a very traditional midwestern housewife type, she will certainly fit in with the preppy subset that makes up Maryland. Most people in Norfolk are just kind of trashy and walk around in oversized Tshirts with sports teams on it.

Your description of all the things you'll be doing when you live in Baltimore is a fantasy.

Um... no it's not? Anyone can google and see that I'm telling the truth. Try to come up with a better counter to what I said that's actually based in REALITY

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those recommending Baltimore to a Midwesterner from a "small city" are almost criminal. OP, do some more homework. Baltimore would be a shock to you- it's a city of despair: high crime, vacant buildings, and dysfunctional city gov. With small kids, it is absolutely a non-starter. Suburban southern Maryland counties have their own problems, too, when it comes to education. I know of what I speak having traveled there often and having family who have worked in the city at Hopkins for decades. Do not go there- you'll regret it.

Norfolk is safer and cleaner- you can drive to NC, DC, etc if you need a change of scenery. Virginia is a wonderful state to call home.

You're not mentioning that Norfolk would be a 3 HOUR drive from DC, and that's through the dregs of rural VA with nothing but gas stations and fast food restaurants. Baltimore is 45 minutes from DC and close to Philly as well, and a straight shot up to NYC if you wanted to go there. That extra 4 HOURS that you will have in Norfolk makes you basically stranded in the middle of VA, with only rural NC and Tennessee nearby. Norfolk is a dumb and also has some of the worst and most dangerous drivers in the country (these are facts, not something I just decided. Look up where Virginia ranks as a state with driving and Norfolk within that if you doubt me)

Baltimore definitely has rough parts, but it's also got really nice, highly educated suburbs and really cute parts of the city. Baltimore is called "Charm City" for a reason. There is the very tony Eastern Shore brigade that lives nearby, so it's not all some dangerous area. You definitely have to be careful, but that goes for most cities. I would choose Baltimore in a heartbeat. You're also super close to all the nature you would get in Norfolk. You have the natural beauty of Maryland (nickname "little America" because of the diversity of all the different geographies in the state- has mountains, rivers, lakes, the beach, forests, fields, etc) and Pennsylvania and even WV, and access to water/ocean being a very short drive. Honestly, it's Baltimore with no contest. If the OP is a very traditional midwestern housewife type, she will certainly fit in with the preppy subset that makes up Maryland. Most people in Norfolk are just kind of trashy and walk around in oversized Tshirts with sports teams on it.

Your description of all the things you'll be doing when you live in Baltimore is a fantasy.[/

Dp, but we live in Baltimore and do all those things. It’s great to be within driving distance of 4 major airports. New York City is less than three hours by train and we usually go at least once a year. We go to DC much more frequently, and Annapolis is a fun place to spend the day. DC just went on a school field trip rafting in West Virginia.

Not our scene, but riding is big, and lots of people make a party of the Hunt Cup and other races. And we have the Orioles and the Ravens, four art museums, a science museum, a kid’s museum, one of the best aquariums in the country, several theaters for live productions and a symphony.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are enough pros in favor of Baltimore to tip the scale that way. There are a handful of neighborhoods that meet OP's definition. (Also look at Annapolis if your DH is willing to drive more, or look at towns along the train lines if he's willing to take the train.) But no one has mentioned how[b] easy it is to do other things from Baltimore as a starting point[/b]: Great airport. DC within an hour for easy day trips to the museums. Philadelphia and NY easy distances. Easy to get to the Eastern Shore or Jersey Shore. If visiting any of those places, or taking your kids to any of those places, is important to you, Baltimore.

I'm a PP who mentioned those exact things! Glad there's at least two of us.

(and that factor alone would seal the deal for me)

We moved from Chicago to Baltimore about eight years ago. I was very hesitant to move here but now I love it. And one of the major reasons is the proximity to other things. You can drive to Philly and NY and DC easily but you can also make a weekend of going to the ocean in DE. And the people are friendly here. If you can keep an open mind, Baltimore can be an awesome place to live.