talk me out of buying

[Anonymous]

I found a company that sells off lease vehicles for huge discounts and am in love with a 2017 Mercedes SUV I found with like 30k miles and priced at $21k. I don't need a car, my old Jeep is paid off, reliable and runs ok, although it is a manual and I'm pretty tired of driving manual. Planned for DH to buy a new (used) car next year- he wants a RR (ugh- tried to talk him out of this) or Lexus, he would trade in my old Jeep and I would take his 2015 Mazda CX9. His Mazda we plan to pay off the balance within two years so 2022 (even though it's a 5 yr loan). Now I'm debating just getting the car I would like to drive, but I'm also a pretty cheap person and the idea of having TWO high car payments for the next several years just makes my stomach turn. We can afford the payments, I just don't really want to be paying $700-1k in car payments every month for the next several years. So, please talk me out of this.

[Anonymous]

In addition to the car payments, you’ll be paying through the nose for maintenance and repairs for the Mercedes. BTDT

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I found a company that sells off lease vehicles for huge discounts and am in love with a 2017 Mercedes SUV I found with like 30k miles and priced at $21k. I don't need a car, my old Jeep is paid off, reliable and runs ok, although it is a manual and I'm pretty tired of driving manual. Planned for DH to buy a new (used) car next year- he wants a RR (ugh- tried to talk him out of this) or Lexus, he would trade in my old Jeep and I would take his 2015 Mazda CX9. His Mazda we plan to pay off the balance within two years so 2022 (even though it's a 5 yr loan). Now I'm debating just getting the car I would like to drive, but I'm also a pretty cheap person and the idea of having TWO high car payments for the next several years just makes my stomach turn. We can afford the payments, I just don't really want to be paying $700-1k in car payments every month for the next several years. So, please talk me out of this.

The $21k price for the Merc is nice/low for a reason. Lux cars quickly become less reliable and costly to maintain, "the market" (supply/demand) knows this thus depreciates the car much faster than some other cars. Your lifetime cost of ownership will the same (or more) than if you got a 2014/15 Toyota 4runner with 100k miles for $21k as well (albeit with less bling-bling than a Merc, if that is your thing). Best of luck.

[Anonymous]

1. If DH is considering RR or Lexus, those are polar opposites in terms of reliability. RR are terribly built and have a reputation for costing an actual fortune to keep running after the first few years of ownership. Have him watch this video from a car reviewer who had his range rover repaired so many times that the company he bought the extended warranty from stopped selling warranties on RR vehicles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3jA55TJboA -- get the Lexus.

2. Mercedes makes SUVs that look great, exceptional interiors and are incredibly fun to drive, but my god are they going to cost a fortune to repair. Please don't be seduced by the seemingly low cost of a used one, and not only that...if you own a used one you'd better be ready to deal with the cost and inconvenience of having it sit in the shop more often than a normal vehicle.

3. I'm of the mindset that to afford a luxury car you should be able to pay cash for it without it significantly affecting your net worth, and without depleting savings. Doesn't mean you have to pay cash if there is an attractive financing offer, but you should have the ability to. You're clearly thinking this through and asked us to talk you out of this, so reflect on that statement you made, "the idea of having TWO high car payments just makes my stomach turn...we can afford the payments..." Thinking about it as "we can afford the payments" is why most middle-class people are swimming in debt. It takes some restraint, but life is so much less stressful if you think about it as can we afford to buy this thing.

If I were in your shoes I would:
--Seriously consider how much of a priority having two luxury cars is in your life. Are you car fanatics and thus care a lot about this? If so, that's okay. It's not wrong to spend more on something if you're willing to spend less in another category. But make it a conscious decision and know that prioritizing this means de-prioritizing other wants in your life. One range rover repair = 4 international flights to France (in the future, I suppose).
--Don't make a snap decision to take on one or two luxury cars in a pandemic. Pay off your other car and then start making payments to a savings account you can use to buy the car you want. Also, COVID messed up the used car market and demand is much higher than supply right now, so used car prices are rising. Not a great time to buy a used car if you can wait it out until next year.
--When the time is right, get a gently used Lexus and pay cash. That is the perfect sweet spot for the frugal-ish person who makes a decent but not lavish income and wants a pretty good (not cutting edge) luxury car that won't cost an arm and a leg to maintain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1. If DH is considering RR or Lexus, those are polar opposites in terms of reliability. RR are terribly built and have a reputation for costing an actual fortune to keep running after the first few years of ownership. Have him watch this video from a car reviewer who had his range rover repaired so many times that the company he bought the extended warranty from stopped selling warranties on RR vehicles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3jA55TJboA -- get the Lexus.

2. Mercedes makes SUVs that look great, exceptional interiors and are incredibly fun to drive, but my god are they going to cost a fortune to repair. Please don't be seduced by the seemingly low cost of a used one, and not only that...if you own a used one you'd better be ready to deal with the cost and inconvenience of having it sit in the shop more often than a normal vehicle.

3. I'm of the mindset that to afford a luxury car you should be able to pay cash for it without it significantly affecting your net worth, and without depleting savings. Doesn't mean you have to pay cash if there is an attractive financing offer, but you should have the ability to. You're clearly thinking this through and asked us to talk you out of this, so reflect on that statement you made, "the idea of having TWO high car payments just makes my stomach turn...we can afford the payments..." Thinking about it as "we can afford the payments" is why most middle-class people are swimming in debt. It takes some restraint, but life is so much less stressful if you think about it as can we afford to buy this thing.

If I were in your shoes I would:
--Seriously consider how much of a priority having two luxury cars is in your life. Are you car fanatics and thus care a lot about this? If so, that's okay. It's not wrong to spend more on something if you're willing to spend less in another category. But make it a conscious decision and know that prioritizing this means de-prioritizing other wants in your life. One range rover repair = 4 international flights to France (in the future, I suppose).
--Don't make a snap decision to take on one or two luxury cars in a pandemic. Pay off your other car and then start making payments to a savings account you can use to buy the car you want. Also, COVID messed up the used car market and demand is much higher than supply right now, so used car prices are rising. Not a great time to buy a used car if you can wait it out until next year.
--When the time is right, get a gently used Lexus and pay cash. That is the perfect sweet spot for the frugal-ish person who makes a decent but not lavish income and wants a pretty good (not cutting edge) luxury car that won't cost an arm and a leg to maintain.

+100, super well said!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1. If DH is considering RR or Lexus, those are polar opposites in terms of reliability. RR are terribly built and have a reputation for costing an actual fortune to keep running after the first few years of ownership. Have him watch this video from a car reviewer who had his range rover repaired so many times that the company he bought the extended warranty from stopped selling warranties on RR vehicles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3jA55TJboA -- get the Lexus.

2. Mercedes makes SUVs that look great, exceptional interiors and are incredibly fun to drive, but my god are they going to cost a fortune to repair. Please don't be seduced by the seemingly low cost of a used one, and not only that...if you own a used one you'd better be ready to deal with the cost and inconvenience of having it sit in the shop more often than a normal vehicle.

3. I'm of the mindset that to afford a luxury car you should be able to pay cash for it without it significantly affecting your net worth, and without depleting savings. Doesn't mean you have to pay cash if there is an attractive financing offer, but you should have the ability to. You're clearly thinking this through and asked us to talk you out of this, so reflect on that statement you made, "the idea of having TWO high car payments just makes my stomach turn...we can afford the payments..." Thinking about it as "we can afford the payments" is why most middle-class people are swimming in debt. It takes some restraint, but life is so much less stressful if you think about it as can we afford to buy this thing.

If I were in your shoes I would:
--Seriously consider how much of a priority having two luxury cars is in your life. Are you car fanatics and thus care a lot about this? If so, that's okay. It's not wrong to spend more on something if you're willing to spend less in another category. But make it a conscious decision and know that prioritizing this means de-prioritizing other wants in your life. One range rover repair = 4 international flights to France (in the future, I suppose).
--Don't make a snap decision to take on one or two luxury cars in a pandemic. Pay off your other car and then start making payments to a savings account you can use to buy the car you want. Also, COVID messed up the used car market and demand is much higher than supply right now, so used car prices are rising. Not a great time to buy a used car if you can wait it out until next year.
--When the time is right, get a gently used Lexus and pay cash. That is the perfect sweet spot for the frugal-ish person who makes a decent but not lavish income and wants a pretty good (not cutting edge) luxury car that won't cost an arm and a leg to maintain.

OP here, thanks this was great. Yes, I have tried to talk to DH and told him how everything I've ever read about RR has been it's such an unreliable and expensive car to repair! He doesn't seem to care. I would rather pay more for a Lexus than get a RR. He still likes "the look" of them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thanks this was great. Yes, I have tried to talk to DH and told him how everything I've ever read about RR has been it's such an unreliable and expensive car to repair! He doesn't seem to care. I would rather pay more for a Lexus than get a RR. He still likes "the look" of them

Prior long poster here. Let's see if we can convince him otherwise. Buying a RR is like buying a boat. You are buying something that is a rarity for an asset, in that it simultaneously:
--Plummets in value so rapidly that you're losing pools of money every day on depreciation alone and easily ending up in a negative equity position unless you pay cash or have a big down payment
--Eats you alive in repairs
--Wastes oodles of your time going back and forth to the repair shop (is this how you want to be spending your limited

Thus, RR owners are:
A) people who make such a high income that they barely notice the cost and aren't sacrificing anything in other life categories (these people generally lease RRs so as to ditch them before they explode into a maintenance time bomb after 36 months)
B) car enthusiasts with the desire and skill to do all major and minor repairs on their own (they buy the used ones coming off lease from group A...even still, parts cost a lot)
C) people with company car allowances or other true business reasons for owning this vehicle without forking over personal $ for it
D) relatively successful middle-class people who sort of understand the RR reputation for abysmal reliability but see groups A/B/C driving them and think, hey, I work hard I should treat myself, really how bad could it be? All without truly understanding the headache they are getting into in terms of the mountains of cash they are pouring into a hole, the level they are adversely impacting other life goals, and the fact that high-maintenance cars are much more than just a cost headache. Does he know how it feels to miss important work meetings and family events because he is suddenly stranded on the side of the highway multiple times, followed by towing and shuffling back and forth to the repair shop? Is his time not worth much to him?

I say do the math for the total cost of ownership over 5 years, using that car reviewer's repair cost numbers and showing how much a RR depreciates over 5 years (look at RRs for sale 5 years older than the model year he is considering), comparing a used RR to a used Lexus. Also, play out a few scenarios with both choices e.g. what happens if one of us loses a job? What happens if one of us encounters big medical bills? How does a $700 RR payment plus a surprise $4,000 repair in a single month work? Do you have the level of cash savings to where that is barely noticed in a monthly budget or is it really going to hurt? Try to position it as you're not suggesting he choose either a RR or a 1999 Corolla, but rather you work hard and intelligent people in your situation buy a smart luxury car, not a dumb one. Intelligent people don't buy assets that depreciate as rapidly in value as a RR, unless that represents such a minuscule fraction of their income. The 2 year old Lexus is such a smart happy medium. And unlike the RR, which you'll be selling 3 years after buying it once you're sick of it being a money pit and time suck, you'll actually be content with keeping the Lexus for a long time with very reasonable upkeep costs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thanks this was great. Yes, I have tried to talk to DH and told him how everything I've ever read about RR has been it's such an unreliable and expensive car to repair! He doesn't seem to care. I would rather pay more for a Lexus than get a RR. He still likes "the look" of them

Prior long poster here. Let's see if we can convince him otherwise. Buying a RR is like buying a boat. You are buying something that is a rarity for an asset, in that it simultaneously:
--Plummets in value so rapidly that you're losing pools of money every day on depreciation alone and easily ending up in a negative equity position unless you pay cash or have a big down payment
--Eats you alive in repairs
--Wastes oodles of your time going back and forth to the repair shop (is this how you want to be spending your limited

Thus, RR owners are:
A) people who make such a high income that they barely notice the cost and aren't sacrificing anything in other life categories (these people generally lease RRs so as to ditch them before they explode into a maintenance time bomb after 36 months)
B) car enthusiasts with the desire and skill to do all major and minor repairs on their own (they buy the used ones coming off lease from group A...even still, parts cost a lot)
C) people with company car allowances or other true business reasons for owning this vehicle without forking over personal $ for it
D) relatively successful middle-class people who sort of understand the RR reputation for abysmal reliability but see groups A/B/C driving them and think, hey, I work hard I should treat myself, really how bad could it be? All without truly understanding the headache they are getting into in terms of the mountains of cash they are pouring into a hole, the level they are adversely impacting other life goals, and the fact that high-maintenance cars are much more than just a cost headache. Does he know how it feels to miss important work meetings and family events because he is suddenly stranded on the side of the highway multiple times, followed by towing and shuffling back and forth to the repair shop? Is his time not worth much to him?

I say do the math for the total cost of ownership over 5 years, using that car reviewer's repair cost numbers and showing how much a RR depreciates over 5 years (look at RRs for sale 5 years older than the model year he is considering), comparing a used RR to a used Lexus. Also, play out a few scenarios with both choices e.g. what happens if one of us loses a job? What happens if one of us encounters big medical bills? How does a $700 RR payment plus a surprise $4,000 repair in a single month work? Do you have the level of cash savings to where that is barely noticed in a monthly budget or is it really going to hurt? Try to position it as you're not suggesting he choose either a RR or a 1999 Corolla, but rather you work hard and intelligent people in your situation buy a smart luxury car, not a dumb one. Intelligent people don't buy assets that depreciate as rapidly in value as a RR, unless that represents such a minuscule fraction of their income. The 2 year old Lexus is such a smart happy medium. And unlike the RR, which you'll be selling 3 years after buying it once you're sick of it being a money pit and time suck, you'll actually be content with keeping the Lexus for a long time with very reasonable upkeep costs.

Another great post! (I'm the +100 guy above). To OP, please read this one: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/880424.page

[Anonymous]

OP it is our mission to help you steer this ship away from the iceberg. You must try some of these angles on him and let us know if it works.

+1 on the link above. Can you imagine how much of a punch in the gut it would be to get stranded on the highway, miss a work meeting, learn that your RR had to be repaired at the cost of $18k, and thus be stuck because if you don't do the repair and try to sell it broken, you're looking at possibly the world's greatest negative equity situation.

OP come on do it for us!

[Anonymous]

OP we're getting worried that you've failed to give us an update, and we fear the worst -- that you're sitting in a Range Rover repair shop waiting room as we speak. What's the deal?