ECNL moving to school year not calendar

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Anonymous wrote:They already know what they are going to do at this point about age spans. They haven’t gotten this far and don’t know. So no amount of emailing them to allow this or that is going to matter.

I don't think they do. The US Youth Soccer guy hinted that they would be creating different rules to accommodate different districts/states. This will never work because districts change start dates all the time. Also it would be impossible to keep track of all the different states and school start dates to maintain up to date rules.

That is for local league. For national league, it can only have one cutoff date with no waivers. And ECNL CEO already hinted 9/1. I will bet my money on it.

We'll see, 9/1 + 60 gets rid of ALL complaints from parents + trapped players.

9/1 by itself still has trapped players depending on the state/district. Which means they'll still have a group of complaining parents.

ECNL will not give a f**k on those parents whose kids are marginal and can only play down to join NL. They will not bring value to ECNL.

Just reread your comment and I don't think you understand how 9/1 + 60 would work.

With 9/1 + 60 players born from 9/1 to 9/1 that year only need to show a birth cert to register to play.

If you were born 60 days before 9/1 you can play with your grade by providing a birth cert and proof of school enrollment at X grade.

All others that are a year older in school but are born 60 days before 9/1 won't be able to play down. (Because they're not in the correct grade in school)

Make sense? Nobody is playing down + all trapped players are addressed.

Scouts would only see one grade playing on the field during showcases.

They will go to a hard cutoff date if 9/1. If I remember right during the last podcast (I know, I know) they brought up percentage of players effected by saying 9/1 will be effect the least amount of players as opposed to 8/1. I would say they have thought it through and are going with a hard date. They don’t want to mess with +30-60 when they can just set the date.

The reason why I know 9/1 + 60 will happen is because it addresses all kinds of issues + makes things easier for clubs to implement SY.

Go listen to it then
They are just trying to minimize the trap player and never said eliminate the trap player. If you do the + 60 might as well go to a 14 month span….they are not going to do that.

You don't want to do this because it allows players to play down a grade in school.

9/1 + 60 doesn't allow (aug july) players who started school early and are a grade ahead to play down with the grade they should be in school.

+ 60 picks up kids born 60 days BEFORE the cutofff (9/1), right? Doesn’t that address kids who started school late (or have a school cutoff (8/1) that is earlier than the soccer cutoff (9/1))? I’m asking about players who are born AFTER the soccer cutoff. 9/1 cutoff for school and soccer says a Sept 2012 kid is u12 and 6th grade (the oldest in her class). But if that kid started school one year early, she’s actually in 7th grade (the youngest in her class) and her teammates are in 6th grade. +60 doesn’t address that, right?

Correct, 9/1 + 60 does not allow kids that are older (traditionally) than their grade in school to "play down" with their grade in school.

Put more bluntly if your kid is a "hold back / regrade" 9/1 + 60 won't let them play with the grade they're in at school.They"ll have to play with the grade up.

So the 9/1 + 60 is basically what USA Lacrosse has done, but limits it to two months as oppose to 3? You have a 9/1 soccer cutoff, but if you’re within 60 days of the cutoff (July and August months) then you can play with your graduation year. So if you’re born Aug 3, 2012, but a 2031 grad as opposed to a 2030 grad since you started late, then you’d play with your grad year since you’re within 60 days from the cutoff, right?

Kind of..

It also makes sure players who are of age but not in the correct grade can't play down.

Different opinion. 9/1+60 is stupid.

Everyone except you knows that you're embarrassing yourself.

Or it’s stupid and makes things more complicated than they need to be.

Anytime you give one subset an option you don’t give the others, it just screws up the system and lends itself to abuse.

Would 1/1+60 make sense? No.

9/1+60 only makes marginal sense because SY isn’t a clean date. But it’s not workable nationally, and it’s not workable competitively.

But it takes a stupid issue, age cutoffs, and just ups the complication, which makes it dumber than the underlying issue.

Welcome to a gigantic duh...

As I've said before I prefer BY because it's easier for clubs to implement + makes more sense.

I've only included 9/1 + 60 detail because it's the only way to implement SY + make it work for everyone involved.

Having a mid July kid and suggesting SY+60 is saying I want to be at the front of the line. Preferring BY over SY in this instance is saying I prefer to be in the middle of the line rather than the back. Just generic selfishness cloaked in pretend empathy.

Believe it or not but my kid is a trapped player and I still prefer BY. From a personal perspective this allows them to "play up" at a more challenging level.

But I would consider switching to a SY+60 league. SY+60 isn't that bad if it completely addressesed all trapped players. It would be nice to go to a tournament and everyone on the field was one grade.

It would be annoying switching to SY to address trapped players and there were still trapped players.

I think you give too much credit to "grades". They can vary especially by district and even more so, between public and private. That's why soccer really should stick to AGE.

SY+60 has an age window and grade requirements.

On paper, perhaps -- although it's not really been documented as an option in this youth soccer discussion anywhere, except as examples from other sports -- where they STRUGGLE with implementation/cheating.

SY+60 eligibility window is 14 months

Only players born between 7/1 and 9/1 would need to provide an additional proof of grade enrolled in school.

You might get a couple of players lieing about their grade in school. But they would still need to be in the 14 month eligibility window. Which means even though they're cheating they're also the same age as other players from different states. Annoying but not the end of the world + would be easy to address. Definately not GY though.

As mentioned several pages back, SY +60 rewards parents that held their July kid back or enrolled them late in states where the school cutoff is in August or September (almost all states). SY +60 guy doesn’t realize/understand/get that part.

What’s your definition of an award in this scenario? Bring the “oldest”? There will always be an oldest and youngest no matter what. The goal is to align as many kids within their school year that works across an entire country.

This argument for grade year is great and all but in this is a zero sum game, more people are against grade year than for it and leagues are against going grade year.

Nobody is argueing for GY.

They are argueing for SY+60 which completely bans the players GY allows.

That's what other sports have tried/trying and apparently failing at because it open's Pandora's box.

Can you give an actual example?

https://www.reddit.com/r/lacrosse/comments/1dck4jr/why_can_youth_lacrosse_not_go_to_birth_years/?sort=top

And Lacrosse made a change to fix that, which is very similar to this SY 60+ thing (I didn’t start that).

Hasn't filtered down very well ... https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1251438.page

So your sample size is a new post you started to get someone else’s opinion?

And that conversation doesn’t even talk about the change. It just talks about what it used to be.

Listen - NO ONE WANTS a true grade/grad year system because WE ALL AGREE that having the potential for a 24 month disparity between players isn’t good. What’s being discussed is not that. And if people really are having a hard time understanding that then there is nothing more anyone can do or say to help them do so.

Don't gaslight that thread. There's some clear questions about SY+90 and they pretty much don't think much of it.

I can’t tell if you’re joking

Anything SY+## is a joke, aka fiction. Lacrosse confirms expanding beyond 12 months causes disenchantment.

Does it though? Lacrosse seems to have had a bigger problem with the straight grad year.

I’m honestly having a hard time wondering why people are so butt hurt about a 60 days, or 61, etc. It’s just a reasonable solution to keep kids in the same school year.

Because playing down a year is viewed as cheating and it is not one of the options.

But nobody is playing down with SY+60 in fact it specifically protects against this.

July and August birthdates will be considered holdbacks, cheaters etc as they will need grade waivers to play down a year. This isn't the first rodeo for soccer so they aren't going to open the floodgates for parental harassment meaning the will hold fast to a 12 month window.

They’re not playing down a year. Can’t help you if you can’t grasp that.

If you have teammates who are more than a year younger than you, then you are playing down a year from an age perspective. The fact that you are in the same grade in school doesn’t change that reality. The trapped player is a real issue that deserves attention, but it is a social issue, not a physical one. +60 solves a social issue for July/August kids whose parents either held them back or who live in a place with a school cutoff that is earlier than whatever cutoff we end up with in soccer, but that solution creates a new physical issue, which is that these kids are much older than some of their teammates. Again, no solution is perfect.

+1

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Anonymous wrote:They already know what they are going to do at this point about age spans. They haven’t gotten this far and don’t know. So no amount of emailing them to allow this or that is going to matter.

I don't think they do. The US Youth Soccer guy hinted that they would be creating different rules to accommodate different districts/states. This will never work because districts change start dates all the time. Also it would be impossible to keep track of all the different states and school start dates to maintain up to date rules.

That is for local league. For national league, it can only have one cutoff date with no waivers. And ECNL CEO already hinted 9/1. I will bet my money on it.

We'll see, 9/1 + 60 gets rid of ALL complaints from parents + trapped players.

9/1 by itself still has trapped players depending on the state/district. Which means they'll still have a group of complaining parents.

ECNL will not give a f**k on those parents whose kids are marginal and can only play down to join NL. They will not bring value to ECNL.

Just reread your comment and I don't think you understand how 9/1 + 60 would work.

With 9/1 + 60 players born from 9/1 to 9/1 that year only need to show a birth cert to register to play.

If you were born 60 days before 9/1 you can play with your grade by providing a birth cert and proof of school enrollment at X grade.

All others that are a year older in school but are born 60 days before 9/1 won't be able to play down. (Because they're not in the correct grade in school)

Make sense? Nobody is playing down + all trapped players are addressed.

Scouts would only see one grade playing on the field during showcases.

They will go to a hard cutoff date if 9/1. If I remember right during the last podcast (I know, I know) they brought up percentage of players effected by saying 9/1 will be effect the least amount of players as opposed to 8/1. I would say they have thought it through and are going with a hard date. They don’t want to mess with +30-60 when they can just set the date.

The reason why I know 9/1 + 60 will happen is because it addresses all kinds of issues + makes things easier for clubs to implement SY.

Go listen to it then
They are just trying to minimize the trap player and never said eliminate the trap player. If you do the + 60 might as well go to a 14 month span….they are not going to do that.

You don't want to do this because it allows players to play down a grade in school.

9/1 + 60 doesn't allow (aug july) players who started school early and are a grade ahead to play down with the grade they should be in school.

+ 60 picks up kids born 60 days BEFORE the cutofff (9/1), right? Doesn’t that address kids who started school late (or have a school cutoff (8/1) that is earlier than the soccer cutoff (9/1))? I’m asking about players who are born AFTER the soccer cutoff. 9/1 cutoff for school and soccer says a Sept 2012 kid is u12 and 6th grade (the oldest in her class). But if that kid started school one year early, she’s actually in 7th grade (the youngest in her class) and her teammates are in 6th grade. +60 doesn’t address that, right?

Correct, 9/1 + 60 does not allow kids that are older (traditionally) than their grade in school to "play down" with their grade in school.

Put more bluntly if your kid is a "hold back / regrade" 9/1 + 60 won't let them play with the grade they're in at school.They"ll have to play with the grade up.

So the 9/1 + 60 is basically what USA Lacrosse has done, but limits it to two months as oppose to 3? You have a 9/1 soccer cutoff, but if you’re within 60 days of the cutoff (July and August months) then you can play with your graduation year. So if you’re born Aug 3, 2012, but a 2031 grad as opposed to a 2030 grad since you started late, then you’d play with your grad year since you’re within 60 days from the cutoff, right?

Kind of..

It also makes sure players who are of age but not in the correct grade can't play down.

Different opinion. 9/1+60 is stupid.

Everyone except you knows that you're embarrassing yourself.

Or it’s stupid and makes things more complicated than they need to be.

Anytime you give one subset an option you don’t give the others, it just screws up the system and lends itself to abuse.

Would 1/1+60 make sense? No.

9/1+60 only makes marginal sense because SY isn’t a clean date. But it’s not workable nationally, and it’s not workable competitively.

But it takes a stupid issue, age cutoffs, and just ups the complication, which makes it dumber than the underlying issue.

Welcome to a gigantic duh...

As I've said before I prefer BY because it's easier for clubs to implement + makes more sense.

I've only included 9/1 + 60 detail because it's the only way to implement SY + make it work for everyone involved.

Having a mid July kid and suggesting SY+60 is saying I want to be at the front of the line. Preferring BY over SY in this instance is saying I prefer to be in the middle of the line rather than the back. Just generic selfishness cloaked in pretend empathy.

Believe it or not but my kid is a trapped player and I still prefer BY. From a personal perspective this allows them to "play up" at a more challenging level.

But I would consider switching to a SY+60 league. SY+60 isn't that bad if it completely addressesed all trapped players. It would be nice to go to a tournament and everyone on the field was one grade.

It would be annoying switching to SY to address trapped players and there were still trapped players.

I think you give too much credit to "grades". They can vary especially by district and even more so, between public and private. That's why soccer really should stick to AGE.

SY+60 has an age window and grade requirements.

On paper, perhaps -- although it's not really been documented as an option in this youth soccer discussion anywhere, except as examples from other sports -- where they STRUGGLE with implementation/cheating.

SY+60 eligibility window is 14 months

Only players born between 7/1 and 9/1 would need to provide an additional proof of grade enrolled in school.

You might get a couple of players lieing about their grade in school. But they would still need to be in the 14 month eligibility window. Which means even though they're cheating they're also the same age as other players from different states. Annoying but not the end of the world + would be easy to address. Definately not GY though.

As mentioned several pages back, SY +60 rewards parents that held their July kid back or enrolled them late in states where the school cutoff is in August or September (almost all states). SY +60 guy doesn’t realize/understand/get that part.

What’s your definition of an award in this scenario? Bring the “oldest”? There will always be an oldest and youngest no matter what. The goal is to align as many kids within their school year that works across an entire country.

This argument for grade year is great and all but in this is a zero sum game, more people are against grade year than for it and leagues are against going grade year.

Nobody is argueing for GY.

They are argueing for SY+60 which completely bans the players GY allows.

That's what other sports have tried/trying and apparently failing at because it open's Pandora's box.

Can you give an actual example?

https://www.reddit.com/r/lacrosse/comments/1dck4jr/why_can_youth_lacrosse_not_go_to_birth_years/?sort=top

And Lacrosse made a change to fix that, which is very similar to this SY 60+ thing (I didn’t start that).

Hasn't filtered down very well ... https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1251438.page

So your sample size is a new post you started to get someone else’s opinion?

And that conversation doesn’t even talk about the change. It just talks about what it used to be.

Listen - NO ONE WANTS a true grade/grad year system because WE ALL AGREE that having the potential for a 24 month disparity between players isn’t good. What’s being discussed is not that. And if people really are having a hard time understanding that then there is nothing more anyone can do or say to help them do so.

Don't gaslight that thread. There's some clear questions about SY+90 and they pretty much don't think much of it.

I can’t tell if you’re joking

Anything SY+## is a joke, aka fiction. Lacrosse confirms expanding beyond 12 months causes disenchantment.

Does it though? Lacrosse seems to have had a bigger problem with the straight grad year.

I’m honestly having a hard time wondering why people are so butt hurt about a 60 days, or 61, etc. It’s just a reasonable solution to keep kids in the same school year.

Because playing down a year is viewed as cheating and it is not one of the options.

But nobody is playing down with SY+60 in fact it specifically protects against this.

July and August birthdates will be considered holdbacks, cheaters etc as they will need grade waivers to play down a year. This isn't the first rodeo for soccer so they aren't going to open the floodgates for parental harassment meaning the will hold fast to a 12 month window.

They’re not playing down a year. Can’t help you if you can’t grasp that.

Yes, they are playing down by definition if they are outside the established 12 month window.

We’re not talking about a 12 month window. We’re talking about grouping kids in their same grade with a slightly more flexible (and realistic) timeframe that includes all kids within a grade while protecting against extreme cases of holdbacks.

Yeah, I get it. You want a 12 month window with a few days shy of a full 2 months allowance for kids to playdown who will be referred to as cheaters. Like they are scorned in lacrosse.

In the current BY system, a Sept/Oct kid who started school a few weeks early plays with kids in the same grade. If we move to SY (whether 8/1 or 9/1), that same kid will now be grouped with kids a grade below her/his grade. Is s/he a “cheater” if she plays with her new age group under the new SY rules?

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Anonymous wrote:They already know what they are going to do at this point about age spans. They haven’t gotten this far and don’t know. So no amount of emailing them to allow this or that is going to matter.

I don't think they do. The US Youth Soccer guy hinted that they would be creating different rules to accommodate different districts/states. This will never work because districts change start dates all the time. Also it would be impossible to keep track of all the different states and school start dates to maintain up to date rules.

That is for local league. For national league, it can only have one cutoff date with no waivers. And ECNL CEO already hinted 9/1. I will bet my money on it.

We'll see, 9/1 + 60 gets rid of ALL complaints from parents + trapped players.

9/1 by itself still has trapped players depending on the state/district. Which means they'll still have a group of complaining parents.

ECNL will not give a f**k on those parents whose kids are marginal and can only play down to join NL. They will not bring value to ECNL.

Just reread your comment and I don't think you understand how 9/1 + 60 would work.

With 9/1 + 60 players born from 9/1 to 9/1 that year only need to show a birth cert to register to play.

If you were born 60 days before 9/1 you can play with your grade by providing a birth cert and proof of school enrollment at X grade.

All others that are a year older in school but are born 60 days before 9/1 won't be able to play down. (Because they're not in the correct grade in school)

Make sense? Nobody is playing down + all trapped players are addressed.

Scouts would only see one grade playing on the field during showcases.

They will go to a hard cutoff date if 9/1. If I remember right during the last podcast (I know, I know) they brought up percentage of players effected by saying 9/1 will be effect the least amount of players as opposed to 8/1. I would say they have thought it through and are going with a hard date. They don’t want to mess with +30-60 when they can just set the date.

The reason why I know 9/1 + 60 will happen is because it addresses all kinds of issues + makes things easier for clubs to implement SY.

Go listen to it then
They are just trying to minimize the trap player and never said eliminate the trap player. If you do the + 60 might as well go to a 14 month span….they are not going to do that.

You don't want to do this because it allows players to play down a grade in school.

9/1 + 60 doesn't allow (aug july) players who started school early and are a grade ahead to play down with the grade they should be in school.

+ 60 picks up kids born 60 days BEFORE the cutofff (9/1), right? Doesn’t that address kids who started school late (or have a school cutoff (8/1) that is earlier than the soccer cutoff (9/1))? I’m asking about players who are born AFTER the soccer cutoff. 9/1 cutoff for school and soccer says a Sept 2012 kid is u12 and 6th grade (the oldest in her class). But if that kid started school one year early, she’s actually in 7th grade (the youngest in her class) and her teammates are in 6th grade. +60 doesn’t address that, right?

Correct, 9/1 + 60 does not allow kids that are older (traditionally) than their grade in school to "play down" with their grade in school.

Put more bluntly if your kid is a "hold back / regrade" 9/1 + 60 won't let them play with the grade they're in at school.They"ll have to play with the grade up.

So the 9/1 + 60 is basically what USA Lacrosse has done, but limits it to two months as oppose to 3? You have a 9/1 soccer cutoff, but if you’re within 60 days of the cutoff (July and August months) then you can play with your graduation year. So if you’re born Aug 3, 2012, but a 2031 grad as opposed to a 2030 grad since you started late, then you’d play with your grad year since you’re within 60 days from the cutoff, right?

Kind of..

It also makes sure players who are of age but not in the correct grade can't play down.

Different opinion. 9/1+60 is stupid.

Everyone except you knows that you're embarrassing yourself.

Or it’s stupid and makes things more complicated than they need to be.

Anytime you give one subset an option you don’t give the others, it just screws up the system and lends itself to abuse.

Would 1/1+60 make sense? No.

9/1+60 only makes marginal sense because SY isn’t a clean date. But it’s not workable nationally, and it’s not workable competitively.

But it takes a stupid issue, age cutoffs, and just ups the complication, which makes it dumber than the underlying issue.

Welcome to a gigantic duh...

As I've said before I prefer BY because it's easier for clubs to implement + makes more sense.

I've only included 9/1 + 60 detail because it's the only way to implement SY + make it work for everyone involved.

Having a mid July kid and suggesting SY+60 is saying I want to be at the front of the line. Preferring BY over SY in this instance is saying I prefer to be in the middle of the line rather than the back. Just generic selfishness cloaked in pretend empathy.

Believe it or not but my kid is a trapped player and I still prefer BY. From a personal perspective this allows them to "play up" at a more challenging level.

But I would consider switching to a SY+60 league. SY+60 isn't that bad if it completely addressesed all trapped players. It would be nice to go to a tournament and everyone on the field was one grade.

It would be annoying switching to SY to address trapped players and there were still trapped players.

I think you give too much credit to "grades". They can vary especially by district and even more so, between public and private. That's why soccer really should stick to AGE.

SY+60 has an age window and grade requirements.

On paper, perhaps -- although it's not really been documented as an option in this youth soccer discussion anywhere, except as examples from other sports -- where they STRUGGLE with implementation/cheating.

SY+60 eligibility window is 14 months

Only players born between 7/1 and 9/1 would need to provide an additional proof of grade enrolled in school.

You might get a couple of players lieing about their grade in school. But they would still need to be in the 14 month eligibility window. Which means even though they're cheating they're also the same age as other players from different states. Annoying but not the end of the world + would be easy to address. Definately not GY though.

As mentioned several pages back, SY +60 rewards parents that held their July kid back or enrolled them late in states where the school cutoff is in August or September (almost all states). SY +60 guy doesn’t realize/understand/get that part.

What’s your definition of an award in this scenario? Bring the “oldest”? There will always be an oldest and youngest no matter what. The goal is to align as many kids within their school year that works across an entire country.

This argument for grade year is great and all but in this is a zero sum game, more people are against grade year than for it and leagues are against going grade year.

Nobody is argueing for GY.

They are argueing for SY+60 which completely bans the players GY allows.

That's what other sports have tried/trying and apparently failing at because it open's Pandora's box.

Can you give an actual example?

https://www.reddit.com/r/lacrosse/comments/1dck4jr/why_can_youth_lacrosse_not_go_to_birth_years/?sort=top

And Lacrosse made a change to fix that, which is very similar to this SY 60+ thing (I didn’t start that).

Hasn't filtered down very well ... https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1251438.page

So your sample size is a new post you started to get someone else’s opinion?

And that conversation doesn’t even talk about the change. It just talks about what it used to be.

Listen - NO ONE WANTS a true grade/grad year system because WE ALL AGREE that having the potential for a 24 month disparity between players isn’t good. What’s being discussed is not that. And if people really are having a hard time understanding that then there is nothing more anyone can do or say to help them do so.

Don't gaslight that thread. There's some clear questions about SY+90 and they pretty much don't think much of it.

I can’t tell if you’re joking

Anything SY+## is a joke, aka fiction. Lacrosse confirms expanding beyond 12 months causes disenchantment.

Does it though? Lacrosse seems to have had a bigger problem with the straight grad year.

I’m honestly having a hard time wondering why people are so butt hurt about a 60 days, or 61, etc. It’s just a reasonable solution to keep kids in the same school year.

Because playing down a year is viewed as cheating and it is not one of the options.

But nobody is playing down with SY+60 in fact it specifically protects against this.

July and August birthdates will be considered holdbacks, cheaters etc as they will need grade waivers to play down a year. This isn't the first rodeo for soccer so they aren't going to open the floodgates for parental harassment meaning the will hold fast to a 12 month window.

They’re not playing down a year. Can’t help you if you can’t grasp that.

Yes, they are playing down by definition if they are outside the established 12 month window.

We’re not talking about a 12 month window. We’re talking about grouping kids in their same grade with a slightly more flexible (and realistic) timeframe that includes all kids within a grade while protecting against extreme cases of holdbacks.

Yeah, I get it. You want a 12 month window with a few days shy of a full 2 months allowance for kids to playdown who will be referred to as cheaters. Like they are scorned in lacrosse.

Call them cheaters if you will. Scorn away. That’s all noise. What matters TO THESE KIDS is being able to play with their classmates like everyone else and not getting trapped, consistent with the dual goals of school year registration.

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Anonymous wrote:They already know what they are going to do at this point about age spans. They haven’t gotten this far and don’t know. So no amount of emailing them to allow this or that is going to matter.

I don't think they do. The US Youth Soccer guy hinted that they would be creating different rules to accommodate different districts/states. This will never work because districts change start dates all the time. Also it would be impossible to keep track of all the different states and school start dates to maintain up to date rules.

That is for local league. For national league, it can only have one cutoff date with no waivers. And ECNL CEO already hinted 9/1. I will bet my money on it.

We'll see, 9/1 + 60 gets rid of ALL complaints from parents + trapped players.

9/1 by itself still has trapped players depending on the state/district. Which means they'll still have a group of complaining parents.

ECNL will not give a f**k on those parents whose kids are marginal and can only play down to join NL. They will not bring value to ECNL.

Just reread your comment and I don't think you understand how 9/1 + 60 would work.

With 9/1 + 60 players born from 9/1 to 9/1 that year only need to show a birth cert to register to play.

If you were born 60 days before 9/1 you can play with your grade by providing a birth cert and proof of school enrollment at X grade.

All others that are a year older in school but are born 60 days before 9/1 won't be able to play down. (Because they're not in the correct grade in school)

Make sense? Nobody is playing down + all trapped players are addressed.

Scouts would only see one grade playing on the field during showcases.

They will go to a hard cutoff date if 9/1. If I remember right during the last podcast (I know, I know) they brought up percentage of players effected by saying 9/1 will be effect the least amount of players as opposed to 8/1. I would say they have thought it through and are going with a hard date. They don’t want to mess with +30-60 when they can just set the date.

The reason why I know 9/1 + 60 will happen is because it addresses all kinds of issues + makes things easier for clubs to implement SY.

Go listen to it then
They are just trying to minimize the trap player and never said eliminate the trap player. If you do the + 60 might as well go to a 14 month span….they are not going to do that.

You don't want to do this because it allows players to play down a grade in school.

9/1 + 60 doesn't allow (aug july) players who started school early and are a grade ahead to play down with the grade they should be in school.

+ 60 picks up kids born 60 days BEFORE the cutofff (9/1), right? Doesn’t that address kids who started school late (or have a school cutoff (8/1) that is earlier than the soccer cutoff (9/1))? I’m asking about players who are born AFTER the soccer cutoff. 9/1 cutoff for school and soccer says a Sept 2012 kid is u12 and 6th grade (the oldest in her class). But if that kid started school one year early, she’s actually in 7th grade (the youngest in her class) and her teammates are in 6th grade. +60 doesn’t address that, right?

Correct, 9/1 + 60 does not allow kids that are older (traditionally) than their grade in school to "play down" with their grade in school.

Put more bluntly if your kid is a "hold back / regrade" 9/1 + 60 won't let them play with the grade they're in at school.They"ll have to play with the grade up.

So the 9/1 + 60 is basically what USA Lacrosse has done, but limits it to two months as oppose to 3? You have a 9/1 soccer cutoff, but if you’re within 60 days of the cutoff (July and August months) then you can play with your graduation year. So if you’re born Aug 3, 2012, but a 2031 grad as opposed to a 2030 grad since you started late, then you’d play with your grad year since you’re within 60 days from the cutoff, right?

Kind of..

It also makes sure players who are of age but not in the correct grade can't play down.

Different opinion. 9/1+60 is stupid.

Everyone except you knows that you're embarrassing yourself.

Or it’s stupid and makes things more complicated than they need to be.

Anytime you give one subset an option you don’t give the others, it just screws up the system and lends itself to abuse.

Would 1/1+60 make sense? No.

9/1+60 only makes marginal sense because SY isn’t a clean date. But it’s not workable nationally, and it’s not workable competitively.

But it takes a stupid issue, age cutoffs, and just ups the complication, which makes it dumber than the underlying issue.

Welcome to a gigantic duh...

As I've said before I prefer BY because it's easier for clubs to implement + makes more sense.

I've only included 9/1 + 60 detail because it's the only way to implement SY + make it work for everyone involved.

Having a mid July kid and suggesting SY+60 is saying I want to be at the front of the line. Preferring BY over SY in this instance is saying I prefer to be in the middle of the line rather than the back. Just generic selfishness cloaked in pretend empathy.

Believe it or not but my kid is a trapped player and I still prefer BY. From a personal perspective this allows them to "play up" at a more challenging level.

But I would consider switching to a SY+60 league. SY+60 isn't that bad if it completely addressesed all trapped players. It would be nice to go to a tournament and everyone on the field was one grade.

It would be annoying switching to SY to address trapped players and there were still trapped players.

I think you give too much credit to "grades". They can vary especially by district and even more so, between public and private. That's why soccer really should stick to AGE.

SY+60 has an age window and grade requirements.

On paper, perhaps -- although it's not really been documented as an option in this youth soccer discussion anywhere, except as examples from other sports -- where they STRUGGLE with implementation/cheating.

SY+60 eligibility window is 14 months

Only players born between 7/1 and 9/1 would need to provide an additional proof of grade enrolled in school.

You might get a couple of players lieing about their grade in school. But they would still need to be in the 14 month eligibility window. Which means even though they're cheating they're also the same age as other players from different states. Annoying but not the end of the world + would be easy to address. Definately not GY though.

As mentioned several pages back, SY +60 rewards parents that held their July kid back or enrolled them late in states where the school cutoff is in August or September (almost all states). SY +60 guy doesn’t realize/understand/get that part.

What’s your definition of an award in this scenario? Bring the “oldest”? There will always be an oldest and youngest no matter what. The goal is to align as many kids within their school year that works across an entire country.

This argument for grade year is great and all but in this is a zero sum game, more people are against grade year than for it and leagues are against going grade year.

Nobody is argueing for GY.

They are argueing for SY+60 which completely bans the players GY allows.

That's what other sports have tried/trying and apparently failing at because it open's Pandora's box.

Can you give an actual example?

https://www.reddit.com/r/lacrosse/comments/1dck4jr/why_can_youth_lacrosse_not_go_to_birth_years/?sort=top

And Lacrosse made a change to fix that, which is very similar to this SY 60+ thing (I didn’t start that).

Hasn't filtered down very well ... https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1251438.page

So your sample size is a new post you started to get someone else’s opinion?

And that conversation doesn’t even talk about the change. It just talks about what it used to be.

Listen - NO ONE WANTS a true grade/grad year system because WE ALL AGREE that having the potential for a 24 month disparity between players isn’t good. What’s being discussed is not that. And if people really are having a hard time understanding that then there is nothing more anyone can do or say to help them do so.

Don't gaslight that thread. There's some clear questions about SY+90 and they pretty much don't think much of it.

I can’t tell if you’re joking

Anything SY+## is a joke, aka fiction. Lacrosse confirms expanding beyond 12 months causes disenchantment.

Does it though? Lacrosse seems to have had a bigger problem with the straight grad year.

I’m honestly having a hard time wondering why people are so butt hurt about a 60 days, or 61, etc. It’s just a reasonable solution to keep kids in the same school year.

Because playing down a year is viewed as cheating and it is not one of the options.

But nobody is playing down with SY+60 in fact it specifically protects against this.

July and August birthdates will be considered holdbacks, cheaters etc as they will need grade waivers to play down a year. This isn't the first rodeo for soccer so they aren't going to open the floodgates for parental harassment meaning the will hold fast to a 12 month window.

They’re not playing down a year. Can’t help you if you can’t grasp that.

Yes, they are playing down by definition if they are outside the established 12 month window.

We’re not talking about a 12 month window. We’re talking about grouping kids in their same grade with a slightly more flexible (and realistic) timeframe that includes all kids within a grade while protecting against extreme cases of holdbacks.

Yeah, I get it. You want a 12 month window with a few days shy of a full 2 months allowance for kids to playdown who will be referred to as cheaters. Like they are scorned in lacrosse.

Yeah, you don’t get it. But that’s fine. No one needs to be convinced of anything in this forum. Because no matter what anyone says, no one here has any authority or sway to do anything. The leaders of these leagues will decide and life goes on.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:What a mess this is all going to be!
It’s becoming clear why BY is the national and international standard!

Birth year is school year for most nations.

You’ve missed the point completely. From a number of non-ideal options BY is what works best and is the established international standard - it’s the reason national teams have the same standard.

Trying to match school year and soccer year emulates other countries and works best.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:They already know what they are going to do at this point about age spans. They haven’t gotten this far and don’t know. So no amount of emailing them to allow this or that is going to matter.

I don't think they do. The US Youth Soccer guy hinted that they would be creating different rules to accommodate different districts/states. This will never work because districts change start dates all the time. Also it would be impossible to keep track of all the different states and school start dates to maintain up to date rules.

That is for local league. For national league, it can only have one cutoff date with no waivers. And ECNL CEO already hinted 9/1. I will bet my money on it.

We'll see, 9/1 + 60 gets rid of ALL complaints from parents + trapped players.

9/1 by itself still has trapped players depending on the state/district. Which means they'll still have a group of complaining parents.

ECNL will not give a f**k on those parents whose kids are marginal and can only play down to join NL. They will not bring value to ECNL.

Just reread your comment and I don't think you understand how 9/1 + 60 would work.

With 9/1 + 60 players born from 9/1 to 9/1 that year only need to show a birth cert to register to play.

If you were born 60 days before 9/1 you can play with your grade by providing a birth cert and proof of school enrollment at X grade.

All others that are a year older in school but are born 60 days before 9/1 won't be able to play down. (Because they're not in the correct grade in school)

Make sense? Nobody is playing down + all trapped players are addressed.

Scouts would only see one grade playing on the field during showcases.

They will go to a hard cutoff date if 9/1. If I remember right during the last podcast (I know, I know) they brought up percentage of players effected by saying 9/1 will be effect the least amount of players as opposed to 8/1. I would say they have thought it through and are going with a hard date. They don’t want to mess with +30-60 when they can just set the date.

The reason why I know 9/1 + 60 will happen is because it addresses all kinds of issues + makes things easier for clubs to implement SY.

Go listen to it then
They are just trying to minimize the trap player and never said eliminate the trap player. If you do the + 60 might as well go to a 14 month span….they are not going to do that.

You don't want to do this because it allows players to play down a grade in school.

9/1 + 60 doesn't allow (aug july) players who started school early and are a grade ahead to play down with the grade they should be in school.

+ 60 picks up kids born 60 days BEFORE the cutofff (9/1), right? Doesn’t that address kids who started school late (or have a school cutoff (8/1) that is earlier than the soccer cutoff (9/1))? I’m asking about players who are born AFTER the soccer cutoff. 9/1 cutoff for school and soccer says a Sept 2012 kid is u12 and 6th grade (the oldest in her class). But if that kid started school one year early, she’s actually in 7th grade (the youngest in her class) and her teammates are in 6th grade. +60 doesn’t address that, right?

Correct, 9/1 + 60 does not allow kids that are older (traditionally) than their grade in school to "play down" with their grade in school.

Put more bluntly if your kid is a "hold back / regrade" 9/1 + 60 won't let them play with the grade they're in at school.They"ll have to play with the grade up.

So the 9/1 + 60 is basically what USA Lacrosse has done, but limits it to two months as oppose to 3? You have a 9/1 soccer cutoff, but if you’re within 60 days of the cutoff (July and August months) then you can play with your graduation year. So if you’re born Aug 3, 2012, but a 2031 grad as opposed to a 2030 grad since you started late, then you’d play with your grad year since you’re within 60 days from the cutoff, right?

Kind of..

It also makes sure players who are of age but not in the correct grade can't play down.

Different opinion. 9/1+60 is stupid.

Everyone except you knows that you're embarrassing yourself.

Or it’s stupid and makes things more complicated than they need to be.

Anytime you give one subset an option you don’t give the others, it just screws up the system and lends itself to abuse.

Would 1/1+60 make sense? No.

9/1+60 only makes marginal sense because SY isn’t a clean date. But it’s not workable nationally, and it’s not workable competitively.

But it takes a stupid issue, age cutoffs, and just ups the complication, which makes it dumber than the underlying issue.

Welcome to a gigantic duh...

As I've said before I prefer BY because it's easier for clubs to implement + makes more sense.

I've only included 9/1 + 60 detail because it's the only way to implement SY + make it work for everyone involved.

Having a mid July kid and suggesting SY+60 is saying I want to be at the front of the line. Preferring BY over SY in this instance is saying I prefer to be in the middle of the line rather than the back. Just generic selfishness cloaked in pretend empathy.

Believe it or not but my kid is a trapped player and I still prefer BY. From a personal perspective this allows them to "play up" at a more challenging level.

But I would consider switching to a SY+60 league. SY+60 isn't that bad if it completely addressesed all trapped players. It would be nice to go to a tournament and everyone on the field was one grade.

It would be annoying switching to SY to address trapped players and there were still trapped players.

I think you give too much credit to "grades". They can vary especially by district and even more so, between public and private. That's why soccer really should stick to AGE.

SY+60 has an age window and grade requirements.

On paper, perhaps -- although it's not really been documented as an option in this youth soccer discussion anywhere, except as examples from other sports -- where they STRUGGLE with implementation/cheating.

SY+60 eligibility window is 14 months

Only players born between 7/1 and 9/1 would need to provide an additional proof of grade enrolled in school.

You might get a couple of players lieing about their grade in school. But they would still need to be in the 14 month eligibility window. Which means even though they're cheating they're also the same age as other players from different states. Annoying but not the end of the world + would be easy to address. Definately not GY though.

As mentioned several pages back, SY +60 rewards parents that held their July kid back or enrolled them late in states where the school cutoff is in August or September (almost all states). SY +60 guy doesn’t realize/understand/get that part.

What’s your definition of an award in this scenario? Bring the “oldest”? There will always be an oldest and youngest no matter what. The goal is to align as many kids within their school year that works across an entire country.

This argument for grade year is great and all but in this is a zero sum game, more people are against grade year than for it and leagues are against going grade year.

Nobody is argueing for GY.

They are argueing for SY+60 which completely bans the players GY allows.

That's what other sports have tried/trying and apparently failing at because it open's Pandora's box.

Can you give an actual example?

https://www.reddit.com/r/lacrosse/comments/1dck4jr/why_can_youth_lacrosse_not_go_to_birth_years/?sort=top

And Lacrosse made a change to fix that, which is very similar to this SY 60+ thing (I didn’t start that).

Hasn't filtered down very well ... https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1251438.page

So your sample size is a new post you started to get someone else’s opinion?

And that conversation doesn’t even talk about the change. It just talks about what it used to be.

Listen - NO ONE WANTS a true grade/grad year system because WE ALL AGREE that having the potential for a 24 month disparity between players isn’t good. What’s being discussed is not that. And if people really are having a hard time understanding that then there is nothing more anyone can do or say to help them do so.

Don't gaslight that thread. There's some clear questions about SY+90 and they pretty much don't think much of it.

I can’t tell if you’re joking

Anything SY+## is a joke, aka fiction. Lacrosse confirms expanding beyond 12 months causes disenchantment.

Does it though? Lacrosse seems to have had a bigger problem with the straight grad year.

I’m honestly having a hard time wondering why people are so butt hurt about a 60 days, or 61, etc. It’s just a reasonable solution to keep kids in the same school year.

Because playing down a year is viewed as cheating and it is not one of the options.

But nobody is playing down with SY+60 in fact it specifically protects against this.

July and August birthdates will be considered holdbacks, cheaters etc as they will need grade waivers to play down a year. This isn't the first rodeo for soccer so they aren't going to open the floodgates for parental harassment meaning the will hold fast to a 12 month window.

They’re not playing down a year. Can’t help you if you can’t grasp that.

Yes, they are playing down by definition if they are outside the established 12 month window.

We’re not talking about a 12 month window. We’re talking about grouping kids in their same grade with a slightly more flexible (and realistic) timeframe that includes all kids within a grade while protecting against extreme cases of holdbacks.

Yeah, I get it. You want a 12 month window with a few days shy of a full 2 months allowance for kids to playdown who will be referred to as cheaters. Like they are scorned in lacrosse.

Call them cheaters if you will. Scorn away. That’s all noise. What matters TO THESE KIDS is being able to play with their classmates like everyone else and not getting trapped, consistent with the dual goals of school year registration.

If you cared enough you would have included June kids in your scheme because it matters to them also but you didn't so you lost the moral high ground.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:They already know what they are going to do at this point about age spans. They haven’t gotten this far and don’t know. So no amount of emailing them to allow this or that is going to matter.

I don't think they do. The US Youth Soccer guy hinted that they would be creating different rules to accommodate different districts/states. This will never work because districts change start dates all the time. Also it would be impossible to keep track of all the different states and school start dates to maintain up to date rules.

That is for local league. For national league, it can only have one cutoff date with no waivers. And ECNL CEO already hinted 9/1. I will bet my money on it.

We'll see, 9/1 + 60 gets rid of ALL complaints from parents + trapped players.

9/1 by itself still has trapped players depending on the state/district. Which means they'll still have a group of complaining parents.

ECNL will not give a f**k on those parents whose kids are marginal and can only play down to join NL. They will not bring value to ECNL.

Just reread your comment and I don't think you understand how 9/1 + 60 would work.

With 9/1 + 60 players born from 9/1 to 9/1 that year only need to show a birth cert to register to play.

If you were born 60 days before 9/1 you can play with your grade by providing a birth cert and proof of school enrollment at X grade.

All others that are a year older in school but are born 60 days before 9/1 won't be able to play down. (Because they're not in the correct grade in school)

Make sense? Nobody is playing down + all trapped players are addressed.

Scouts would only see one grade playing on the field during showcases.

They will go to a hard cutoff date if 9/1. If I remember right during the last podcast (I know, I know) they brought up percentage of players effected by saying 9/1 will be effect the least amount of players as opposed to 8/1. I would say they have thought it through and are going with a hard date. They don’t want to mess with +30-60 when they can just set the date.

The reason why I know 9/1 + 60 will happen is because it addresses all kinds of issues + makes things easier for clubs to implement SY.

Go listen to it then
They are just trying to minimize the trap player and never said eliminate the trap player. If you do the + 60 might as well go to a 14 month span….they are not going to do that.

You don't want to do this because it allows players to play down a grade in school.

9/1 + 60 doesn't allow (aug july) players who started school early and are a grade ahead to play down with the grade they should be in school.

+ 60 picks up kids born 60 days BEFORE the cutofff (9/1), right? Doesn’t that address kids who started school late (or have a school cutoff (8/1) that is earlier than the soccer cutoff (9/1))? I’m asking about players who are born AFTER the soccer cutoff. 9/1 cutoff for school and soccer says a Sept 2012 kid is u12 and 6th grade (the oldest in her class). But if that kid started school one year early, she’s actually in 7th grade (the youngest in her class) and her teammates are in 6th grade. +60 doesn’t address that, right?

Correct, 9/1 + 60 does not allow kids that are older (traditionally) than their grade in school to "play down" with their grade in school.

Put more bluntly if your kid is a "hold back / regrade" 9/1 + 60 won't let them play with the grade they're in at school.They"ll have to play with the grade up.

So the 9/1 + 60 is basically what USA Lacrosse has done, but limits it to two months as oppose to 3? You have a 9/1 soccer cutoff, but if you’re within 60 days of the cutoff (July and August months) then you can play with your graduation year. So if you’re born Aug 3, 2012, but a 2031 grad as opposed to a 2030 grad since you started late, then you’d play with your grad year since you’re within 60 days from the cutoff, right?

Kind of..

It also makes sure players who are of age but not in the correct grade can't play down.

Different opinion. 9/1+60 is stupid.

Everyone except you knows that you're embarrassing yourself.

Or it’s stupid and makes things more complicated than they need to be.

Anytime you give one subset an option you don’t give the others, it just screws up the system and lends itself to abuse.

Would 1/1+60 make sense? No.

9/1+60 only makes marginal sense because SY isn’t a clean date. But it’s not workable nationally, and it’s not workable competitively.

But it takes a stupid issue, age cutoffs, and just ups the complication, which makes it dumber than the underlying issue.

Welcome to a gigantic duh...

As I've said before I prefer BY because it's easier for clubs to implement + makes more sense.

I've only included 9/1 + 60 detail because it's the only way to implement SY + make it work for everyone involved.

Having a mid July kid and suggesting SY+60 is saying I want to be at the front of the line. Preferring BY over SY in this instance is saying I prefer to be in the middle of the line rather than the back. Just generic selfishness cloaked in pretend empathy.

Believe it or not but my kid is a trapped player and I still prefer BY. From a personal perspective this allows them to "play up" at a more challenging level.

But I would consider switching to a SY+60 league. SY+60 isn't that bad if it completely addressesed all trapped players. It would be nice to go to a tournament and everyone on the field was one grade.

It would be annoying switching to SY to address trapped players and there were still trapped players.

I think you give too much credit to "grades". They can vary especially by district and even more so, between public and private. That's why soccer really should stick to AGE.

SY+60 has an age window and grade requirements.

On paper, perhaps -- although it's not really been documented as an option in this youth soccer discussion anywhere, except as examples from other sports -- where they STRUGGLE with implementation/cheating.

SY+60 eligibility window is 14 months

Only players born between 7/1 and 9/1 would need to provide an additional proof of grade enrolled in school.

You might get a couple of players lieing about their grade in school. But they would still need to be in the 14 month eligibility window. Which means even though they're cheating they're also the same age as other players from different states. Annoying but not the end of the world + would be easy to address. Definately not GY though.

As mentioned several pages back, SY +60 rewards parents that held their July kid back or enrolled them late in states where the school cutoff is in August or September (almost all states). SY +60 guy doesn’t realize/understand/get that part.

What’s your definition of an award in this scenario? Bring the “oldest”? There will always be an oldest and youngest no matter what. The goal is to align as many kids within their school year that works across an entire country.

This argument for grade year is great and all but in this is a zero sum game, more people are against grade year than for it and leagues are against going grade year.

Nobody is argueing for GY.

They are argueing for SY+60 which completely bans the players GY allows.

That's what other sports have tried/trying and apparently failing at because it open's Pandora's box.

Can you give an actual example?

https://www.reddit.com/r/lacrosse/comments/1dck4jr/why_can_youth_lacrosse_not_go_to_birth_years/?sort=top

And Lacrosse made a change to fix that, which is very similar to this SY 60+ thing (I didn’t start that).

Hasn't filtered down very well ... https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1251438.page

So your sample size is a new post you started to get someone else’s opinion?

And that conversation doesn’t even talk about the change. It just talks about what it used to be.

Listen - NO ONE WANTS a true grade/grad year system because WE ALL AGREE that having the potential for a 24 month disparity between players isn’t good. What’s being discussed is not that. And if people really are having a hard time understanding that then there is nothing more anyone can do or say to help them do so.

Don't gaslight that thread. There's some clear questions about SY+90 and they pretty much don't think much of it.

I can’t tell if you’re joking

Anything SY+## is a joke, aka fiction. Lacrosse confirms expanding beyond 12 months causes disenchantment.

Does it though? Lacrosse seems to have had a bigger problem with the straight grad year.

I’m honestly having a hard time wondering why people are so butt hurt about a 60 days, or 61, etc. It’s just a reasonable solution to keep kids in the same school year.

Because playing down a year is viewed as cheating and it is not one of the options.

But nobody is playing down with SY+60 in fact it specifically protects against this.

July and August birthdates will be considered holdbacks, cheaters etc as they will need grade waivers to play down a year. This isn't the first rodeo for soccer so they aren't going to open the floodgates for parental harassment meaning the will hold fast to a 12 month window.

They’re not playing down a year. Can’t help you if you can’t grasp that.

Yes, they are playing down by definition if they are outside the established 12 month window.

We’re not talking about a 12 month window. We’re talking about grouping kids in their same grade with a slightly more flexible (and realistic) timeframe that includes all kids within a grade while protecting against extreme cases of holdbacks.

Yeah, I get it. You want a 12 month window with a few days shy of a full 2 months allowance for kids to playdown who will be referred to as cheaters. Like they are scorned in lacrosse.

Call them cheaters if you will. Scorn away. That’s all noise. What matters TO THESE KIDS is being able to play with their classmates like everyone else and not getting trapped, consistent with the dual goals of school year registration.

People making the argument about playing with classmates don't have kids that play at high levels of soccer or are U little parents with no understanding of travel soccer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:They already know what they are going to do at this point about age spans. They haven’t gotten this far and don’t know. So no amount of emailing them to allow this or that is going to matter.

I don't think they do. The US Youth Soccer guy hinted that they would be creating different rules to accommodate different districts/states. This will never work because districts change start dates all the time. Also it would be impossible to keep track of all the different states and school start dates to maintain up to date rules.

That is for local league. For national league, it can only have one cutoff date with no waivers. And ECNL CEO already hinted 9/1. I will bet my money on it.

We'll see, 9/1 + 60 gets rid of ALL complaints from parents + trapped players.

9/1 by itself still has trapped players depending on the state/district. Which means they'll still have a group of complaining parents.

ECNL will not give a f**k on those parents whose kids are marginal and can only play down to join NL. They will not bring value to ECNL.

Just reread your comment and I don't think you understand how 9/1 + 60 would work.

With 9/1 + 60 players born from 9/1 to 9/1 that year only need to show a birth cert to register to play.

If you were born 60 days before 9/1 you can play with your grade by providing a birth cert and proof of school enrollment at X grade.

All others that are a year older in school but are born 60 days before 9/1 won't be able to play down. (Because they're not in the correct grade in school)

Make sense? Nobody is playing down + all trapped players are addressed.

Scouts would only see one grade playing on the field during showcases.

They will go to a hard cutoff date if 9/1. If I remember right during the last podcast (I know, I know) they brought up percentage of players effected by saying 9/1 will be effect the least amount of players as opposed to 8/1. I would say they have thought it through and are going with a hard date. They don’t want to mess with +30-60 when they can just set the date.

The reason why I know 9/1 + 60 will happen is because it addresses all kinds of issues + makes things easier for clubs to implement SY.

Go listen to it then
They are just trying to minimize the trap player and never said eliminate the trap player. If you do the + 60 might as well go to a 14 month span….they are not going to do that.

You don't want to do this because it allows players to play down a grade in school.

9/1 + 60 doesn't allow (aug july) players who started school early and are a grade ahead to play down with the grade they should be in school.

+ 60 picks up kids born 60 days BEFORE the cutofff (9/1), right? Doesn’t that address kids who started school late (or have a school cutoff (8/1) that is earlier than the soccer cutoff (9/1))? I’m asking about players who are born AFTER the soccer cutoff. 9/1 cutoff for school and soccer says a Sept 2012 kid is u12 and 6th grade (the oldest in her class). But if that kid started school one year early, she’s actually in 7th grade (the youngest in her class) and her teammates are in 6th grade. +60 doesn’t address that, right?

Correct, 9/1 + 60 does not allow kids that are older (traditionally) than their grade in school to "play down" with their grade in school.

Put more bluntly if your kid is a "hold back / regrade" 9/1 + 60 won't let them play with the grade they're in at school.They"ll have to play with the grade up.

So the 9/1 + 60 is basically what USA Lacrosse has done, but limits it to two months as oppose to 3? You have a 9/1 soccer cutoff, but if you’re within 60 days of the cutoff (July and August months) then you can play with your graduation year. So if you’re born Aug 3, 2012, but a 2031 grad as opposed to a 2030 grad since you started late, then you’d play with your grad year since you’re within 60 days from the cutoff, right?

Kind of..

It also makes sure players who are of age but not in the correct grade can't play down.

Different opinion. 9/1+60 is stupid.

Everyone except you knows that you're embarrassing yourself.

Or it’s stupid and makes things more complicated than they need to be.

Anytime you give one subset an option you don’t give the others, it just screws up the system and lends itself to abuse.

Would 1/1+60 make sense? No.

9/1+60 only makes marginal sense because SY isn’t a clean date. But it’s not workable nationally, and it’s not workable competitively.

But it takes a stupid issue, age cutoffs, and just ups the complication, which makes it dumber than the underlying issue.

Welcome to a gigantic duh...

As I've said before I prefer BY because it's easier for clubs to implement + makes more sense.

I've only included 9/1 + 60 detail because it's the only way to implement SY + make it work for everyone involved.

Having a mid July kid and suggesting SY+60 is saying I want to be at the front of the line. Preferring BY over SY in this instance is saying I prefer to be in the middle of the line rather than the back. Just generic selfishness cloaked in pretend empathy.

Believe it or not but my kid is a trapped player and I still prefer BY. From a personal perspective this allows them to "play up" at a more challenging level.

But I would consider switching to a SY+60 league. SY+60 isn't that bad if it completely addressesed all trapped players. It would be nice to go to a tournament and everyone on the field was one grade.

It would be annoying switching to SY to address trapped players and there were still trapped players.

I think you give too much credit to "grades". They can vary especially by district and even more so, between public and private. That's why soccer really should stick to AGE.

SY+60 has an age window and grade requirements.

On paper, perhaps -- although it's not really been documented as an option in this youth soccer discussion anywhere, except as examples from other sports -- where they STRUGGLE with implementation/cheating.

SY+60 eligibility window is 14 months

Only players born between 7/1 and 9/1 would need to provide an additional proof of grade enrolled in school.

You might get a couple of players lieing about their grade in school. But they would still need to be in the 14 month eligibility window. Which means even though they're cheating they're also the same age as other players from different states. Annoying but not the end of the world + would be easy to address. Definately not GY though.

As mentioned several pages back, SY +60 rewards parents that held their July kid back or enrolled them late in states where the school cutoff is in August or September (almost all states). SY +60 guy doesn’t realize/understand/get that part.

What’s your definition of an award in this scenario? Bring the “oldest”? There will always be an oldest and youngest no matter what. The goal is to align as many kids within their school year that works across an entire country.

This argument for grade year is great and all but in this is a zero sum game, more people are against grade year than for it and leagues are against going grade year.

Nobody is argueing for GY.

They are argueing for SY+60 which completely bans the players GY allows.

That's what other sports have tried/trying and apparently failing at because it open's Pandora's box.

Can you give an actual example?

https://www.reddit.com/r/lacrosse/comments/1dck4jr/why_can_youth_lacrosse_not_go_to_birth_years/?sort=top

And Lacrosse made a change to fix that, which is very similar to this SY 60+ thing (I didn’t start that).

Hasn't filtered down very well ... https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1251438.page

So your sample size is a new post you started to get someone else’s opinion?

And that conversation doesn’t even talk about the change. It just talks about what it used to be.

Listen - NO ONE WANTS a true grade/grad year system because WE ALL AGREE that having the potential for a 24 month disparity between players isn’t good. What’s being discussed is not that. And if people really are having a hard time understanding that then there is nothing more anyone can do or say to help them do so.

Don't gaslight that thread. There's some clear questions about SY+90 and they pretty much don't think much of it.

I can’t tell if you’re joking

Anything SY+## is a joke, aka fiction. Lacrosse confirms expanding beyond 12 months causes disenchantment.

Does it though? Lacrosse seems to have had a bigger problem with the straight grad year.

I’m honestly having a hard time wondering why people are so butt hurt about a 60 days, or 61, etc. It’s just a reasonable solution to keep kids in the same school year.

Because playing down a year is viewed as cheating and it is not one of the options.

But nobody is playing down with SY+60 in fact it specifically protects against this.

July and August birthdates will be considered holdbacks, cheaters etc as they will need grade waivers to play down a year. This isn't the first rodeo for soccer so they aren't going to open the floodgates for parental harassment meaning the will hold fast to a 12 month window.

They’re not playing down a year. Can’t help you if you can’t grasp that.

Yes, they are playing down by definition if they are outside the established 12 month window.

We’re not talking about a 12 month window. We’re talking about grouping kids in their same grade with a slightly more flexible (and realistic) timeframe that includes all kids within a grade while protecting against extreme cases of holdbacks.

Yeah, I get it. You want a 12 month window with a few days shy of a full 2 months allowance for kids to playdown who will be referred to as cheaters. Like they are scorned in lacrosse.

Call them cheaters if you will. Scorn away. That’s all noise. What matters TO THESE KIDS is being able to play with their classmates like everyone else and not getting trapped, consistent with the dual goals of school year registration.

People making the argument about playing with classmates don't have kids that play at high levels of soccer or are U little parents with no understanding of travel soccer.

No one makes an argument why playing with classmates is what ECNL kids want, they make the argument that playing with classmates is how kids ENTER soccer. This is literally what US Club and everyone have been saying the whole time. They want kids to be able to play with classmates so they start playing soccer because more kids playing soccer means finding more exceptional soccer players.

When they talk about changing age groups they aren’t thinking about your ECNL daughter at all, not even for a second. They know they don’t care about their classmates. They’re not even thinking about current YNT kids who already found there way there or kids on a pro pathway. They are thinking 100000% about making more soccer players at all levels and ages.

[Anonymous]

The SY +60 is today's Simpsons monorail

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taJ4MFCxiuo

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The SY +60 is today's Simpsons monorail

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taJ4MFCxiuo

Man, I already made the monorail salesman joke earlier also.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:They already know what they are going to do at this point about age spans. They haven’t gotten this far and don’t know. So no amount of emailing them to allow this or that is going to matter.

I don't think they do. The US Youth Soccer guy hinted that they would be creating different rules to accommodate different districts/states. This will never work because districts change start dates all the time. Also it would be impossible to keep track of all the different states and school start dates to maintain up to date rules.

That is for local league. For national league, it can only have one cutoff date with no waivers. And ECNL CEO already hinted 9/1. I will bet my money on it.

We'll see, 9/1 + 60 gets rid of ALL complaints from parents + trapped players.

9/1 by itself still has trapped players depending on the state/district. Which means they'll still have a group of complaining parents.

ECNL will not give a f**k on those parents whose kids are marginal and can only play down to join NL. They will not bring value to ECNL.

Just reread your comment and I don't think you understand how 9/1 + 60 would work.

With 9/1 + 60 players born from 9/1 to 9/1 that year only need to show a birth cert to register to play.

If you were born 60 days before 9/1 you can play with your grade by providing a birth cert and proof of school enrollment at X grade.

All others that are a year older in school but are born 60 days before 9/1 won't be able to play down. (Because they're not in the correct grade in school)

Make sense? Nobody is playing down + all trapped players are addressed.

Scouts would only see one grade playing on the field during showcases.

They will go to a hard cutoff date if 9/1. If I remember right during the last podcast (I know, I know) they brought up percentage of players effected by saying 9/1 will be effect the least amount of players as opposed to 8/1. I would say they have thought it through and are going with a hard date. They don’t want to mess with +30-60 when they can just set the date.

The reason why I know 9/1 + 60 will happen is because it addresses all kinds of issues + makes things easier for clubs to implement SY.

Go listen to it then
They are just trying to minimize the trap player and never said eliminate the trap player. If you do the + 60 might as well go to a 14 month span….they are not going to do that.

You don't want to do this because it allows players to play down a grade in school.

9/1 + 60 doesn't allow (aug july) players who started school early and are a grade ahead to play down with the grade they should be in school.

+ 60 picks up kids born 60 days BEFORE the cutofff (9/1), right? Doesn’t that address kids who started school late (or have a school cutoff (8/1) that is earlier than the soccer cutoff (9/1))? I’m asking about players who are born AFTER the soccer cutoff. 9/1 cutoff for school and soccer says a Sept 2012 kid is u12 and 6th grade (the oldest in her class). But if that kid started school one year early, she’s actually in 7th grade (the youngest in her class) and her teammates are in 6th grade. +60 doesn’t address that, right?

Correct, 9/1 + 60 does not allow kids that are older (traditionally) than their grade in school to "play down" with their grade in school.

Put more bluntly if your kid is a "hold back / regrade" 9/1 + 60 won't let them play with the grade they're in at school.They"ll have to play with the grade up.

So the 9/1 + 60 is basically what USA Lacrosse has done, but limits it to two months as oppose to 3? You have a 9/1 soccer cutoff, but if you’re within 60 days of the cutoff (July and August months) then you can play with your graduation year. So if you’re born Aug 3, 2012, but a 2031 grad as opposed to a 2030 grad since you started late, then you’d play with your grad year since you’re within 60 days from the cutoff, right?

Kind of..

It also makes sure players who are of age but not in the correct grade can't play down.

Different opinion. 9/1+60 is stupid.

Everyone except you knows that you're embarrassing yourself.

Or it’s stupid and makes things more complicated than they need to be.

Anytime you give one subset an option you don’t give the others, it just screws up the system and lends itself to abuse.

Would 1/1+60 make sense? No.

9/1+60 only makes marginal sense because SY isn’t a clean date. But it’s not workable nationally, and it’s not workable competitively.

But it takes a stupid issue, age cutoffs, and just ups the complication, which makes it dumber than the underlying issue.

Welcome to a gigantic duh...

As I've said before I prefer BY because it's easier for clubs to implement + makes more sense.

I've only included 9/1 + 60 detail because it's the only way to implement SY + make it work for everyone involved.

Having a mid July kid and suggesting SY+60 is saying I want to be at the front of the line. Preferring BY over SY in this instance is saying I prefer to be in the middle of the line rather than the back. Just generic selfishness cloaked in pretend empathy.

Believe it or not but my kid is a trapped player and I still prefer BY. From a personal perspective this allows them to "play up" at a more challenging level.

But I would consider switching to a SY+60 league. SY+60 isn't that bad if it completely addressesed all trapped players. It would be nice to go to a tournament and everyone on the field was one grade.

It would be annoying switching to SY to address trapped players and there were still trapped players.

I think you give too much credit to "grades". They can vary especially by district and even more so, between public and private. That's why soccer really should stick to AGE.

SY+60 has an age window and grade requirements.

On paper, perhaps -- although it's not really been documented as an option in this youth soccer discussion anywhere, except as examples from other sports -- where they STRUGGLE with implementation/cheating.

SY+60 eligibility window is 14 months

Only players born between 7/1 and 9/1 would need to provide an additional proof of grade enrolled in school.

You might get a couple of players lieing about their grade in school. But they would still need to be in the 14 month eligibility window. Which means even though they're cheating they're also the same age as other players from different states. Annoying but not the end of the world + would be easy to address. Definately not GY though.

As mentioned several pages back, SY +60 rewards parents that held their July kid back or enrolled them late in states where the school cutoff is in August or September (almost all states). SY +60 guy doesn’t realize/understand/get that part.

What’s your definition of an award in this scenario? Bring the “oldest”? There will always be an oldest and youngest no matter what. The goal is to align as many kids within their school year that works across an entire country.

This argument for grade year is great and all but in this is a zero sum game, more people are against grade year than for it and leagues are against going grade year.

Nobody is argueing for GY.

They are argueing for SY+60 which completely bans the players GY allows.

That's what other sports have tried/trying and apparently failing at because it open's Pandora's box.

Can you give an actual example?

https://www.reddit.com/r/lacrosse/comments/1dck4jr/why_can_youth_lacrosse_not_go_to_birth_years/?sort=top

And Lacrosse made a change to fix that, which is very similar to this SY 60+ thing (I didn’t start that).

Hasn't filtered down very well ... https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1251438.page

So your sample size is a new post you started to get someone else’s opinion?

And that conversation doesn’t even talk about the change. It just talks about what it used to be.

Listen - NO ONE WANTS a true grade/grad year system because WE ALL AGREE that having the potential for a 24 month disparity between players isn’t good. What’s being discussed is not that. And if people really are having a hard time understanding that then there is nothing more anyone can do or say to help them do so.

Don't gaslight that thread. There's some clear questions about SY+90 and they pretty much don't think much of it.

I can’t tell if you’re joking

Anything SY+## is a joke, aka fiction. Lacrosse confirms expanding beyond 12 months causes disenchantment.

Does it though? Lacrosse seems to have had a bigger problem with the straight grad year.

I’m honestly having a hard time wondering why people are so butt hurt about a 60 days, or 61, etc. It’s just a reasonable solution to keep kids in the same school year.

Because playing down a year is viewed as cheating and it is not one of the options.

But nobody is playing down with SY+60 in fact it specifically protects against this.

July and August birthdates will be considered holdbacks, cheaters etc as they will need grade waivers to play down a year. This isn't the first rodeo for soccer so they aren't going to open the floodgates for parental harassment meaning the will hold fast to a 12 month window.

They’re not playing down a year. Can’t help you if you can’t grasp that.

Yes, they are playing down by definition if they are outside the established 12 month window.

We’re not talking about a 12 month window. We’re talking about grouping kids in their same grade with a slightly more flexible (and realistic) timeframe that includes all kids within a grade while protecting against extreme cases of holdbacks.

Yeah, I get it. You want a 12 month window with a few days shy of a full 2 months allowance for kids to playdown who will be referred to as cheaters. Like they are scorned in lacrosse.

Call them cheaters if you will. Scorn away. That’s all noise. What matters TO THESE KIDS is being able to play with their classmates like everyone else and not getting trapped, consistent with the dual goals of school year registration.

People making the argument about playing with classmates don't have kids that play at high levels of soccer or are U little parents with no understanding of travel soccer.

It’s more so school year (with bumpers) as opposed to classmates. The classmates thing goes away after U little because a lot of those kids move on to another sport anyway.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:They already know what they are going to do at this point about age spans. They haven’t gotten this far and don’t know. So no amount of emailing them to allow this or that is going to matter.

I don't think they do. The US Youth Soccer guy hinted that they would be creating different rules to accommodate different districts/states. This will never work because districts change start dates all the time. Also it would be impossible to keep track of all the different states and school start dates to maintain up to date rules.

That is for local league. For national league, it can only have one cutoff date with no waivers. And ECNL CEO already hinted 9/1. I will bet my money on it.

We'll see, 9/1 + 60 gets rid of ALL complaints from parents + trapped players.

9/1 by itself still has trapped players depending on the state/district. Which means they'll still have a group of complaining parents.

ECNL will not give a f**k on those parents whose kids are marginal and can only play down to join NL. They will not bring value to ECNL.

Just reread your comment and I don't think you understand how 9/1 + 60 would work.

With 9/1 + 60 players born from 9/1 to 9/1 that year only need to show a birth cert to register to play.

If you were born 60 days before 9/1 you can play with your grade by providing a birth cert and proof of school enrollment at X grade.

All others that are a year older in school but are born 60 days before 9/1 won't be able to play down. (Because they're not in the correct grade in school)

Make sense? Nobody is playing down + all trapped players are addressed.

Scouts would only see one grade playing on the field during showcases.

They will go to a hard cutoff date if 9/1. If I remember right during the last podcast (I know, I know) they brought up percentage of players effected by saying 9/1 will be effect the least amount of players as opposed to 8/1. I would say they have thought it through and are going with a hard date. They don’t want to mess with +30-60 when they can just set the date.

The reason why I know 9/1 + 60 will happen is because it addresses all kinds of issues + makes things easier for clubs to implement SY.

Go listen to it then
They are just trying to minimize the trap player and never said eliminate the trap player. If you do the + 60 might as well go to a 14 month span….they are not going to do that.

You don't want to do this because it allows players to play down a grade in school.

9/1 + 60 doesn't allow (aug july) players who started school early and are a grade ahead to play down with the grade they should be in school.

+ 60 picks up kids born 60 days BEFORE the cutofff (9/1), right? Doesn’t that address kids who started school late (or have a school cutoff (8/1) that is earlier than the soccer cutoff (9/1))? I’m asking about players who are born AFTER the soccer cutoff. 9/1 cutoff for school and soccer says a Sept 2012 kid is u12 and 6th grade (the oldest in her class). But if that kid started school one year early, she’s actually in 7th grade (the youngest in her class) and her teammates are in 6th grade. +60 doesn’t address that, right?

Correct, 9/1 + 60 does not allow kids that are older (traditionally) than their grade in school to "play down" with their grade in school.

Put more bluntly if your kid is a "hold back / regrade" 9/1 + 60 won't let them play with the grade they're in at school.They"ll have to play with the grade up.

So the 9/1 + 60 is basically what USA Lacrosse has done, but limits it to two months as oppose to 3? You have a 9/1 soccer cutoff, but if you’re within 60 days of the cutoff (July and August months) then you can play with your graduation year. So if you’re born Aug 3, 2012, but a 2031 grad as opposed to a 2030 grad since you started late, then you’d play with your grad year since you’re within 60 days from the cutoff, right?

Kind of..

It also makes sure players who are of age but not in the correct grade can't play down.

Different opinion. 9/1+60 is stupid.

Everyone except you knows that you're embarrassing yourself.

Or it’s stupid and makes things more complicated than they need to be.

Anytime you give one subset an option you don’t give the others, it just screws up the system and lends itself to abuse.

Would 1/1+60 make sense? No.

9/1+60 only makes marginal sense because SY isn’t a clean date. But it’s not workable nationally, and it’s not workable competitively.

But it takes a stupid issue, age cutoffs, and just ups the complication, which makes it dumber than the underlying issue.

Welcome to a gigantic duh...

As I've said before I prefer BY because it's easier for clubs to implement + makes more sense.

I've only included 9/1 + 60 detail because it's the only way to implement SY + make it work for everyone involved.

Having a mid July kid and suggesting SY+60 is saying I want to be at the front of the line. Preferring BY over SY in this instance is saying I prefer to be in the middle of the line rather than the back. Just generic selfishness cloaked in pretend empathy.

Believe it or not but my kid is a trapped player and I still prefer BY. From a personal perspective this allows them to "play up" at a more challenging level.

But I would consider switching to a SY+60 league. SY+60 isn't that bad if it completely addressesed all trapped players. It would be nice to go to a tournament and everyone on the field was one grade.

It would be annoying switching to SY to address trapped players and there were still trapped players.

I think you give too much credit to "grades". They can vary especially by district and even more so, between public and private. That's why soccer really should stick to AGE.

SY+60 has an age window and grade requirements.

On paper, perhaps -- although it's not really been documented as an option in this youth soccer discussion anywhere, except as examples from other sports -- where they STRUGGLE with implementation/cheating.

SY+60 eligibility window is 14 months

Only players born between 7/1 and 9/1 would need to provide an additional proof of grade enrolled in school.

You might get a couple of players lieing about their grade in school. But they would still need to be in the 14 month eligibility window. Which means even though they're cheating they're also the same age as other players from different states. Annoying but not the end of the world + would be easy to address. Definately not GY though.

As mentioned several pages back, SY +60 rewards parents that held their July kid back or enrolled them late in states where the school cutoff is in August or September (almost all states). SY +60 guy doesn’t realize/understand/get that part.

What’s your definition of an award in this scenario? Bring the “oldest”? There will always be an oldest and youngest no matter what. The goal is to align as many kids within their school year that works across an entire country.

This argument for grade year is great and all but in this is a zero sum game, more people are against grade year than for it and leagues are against going grade year.

Nobody is argueing for GY.

They are argueing for SY+60 which completely bans the players GY allows.

That's what other sports have tried/trying and apparently failing at because it open's Pandora's box.

Can you give an actual example?

https://www.reddit.com/r/lacrosse/comments/1dck4jr/why_can_youth_lacrosse_not_go_to_birth_years/?sort=top

And Lacrosse made a change to fix that, which is very similar to this SY 60+ thing (I didn’t start that).

Hasn't filtered down very well ... https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1251438.page

So your sample size is a new post you started to get someone else’s opinion?

And that conversation doesn’t even talk about the change. It just talks about what it used to be.

Listen - NO ONE WANTS a true grade/grad year system because WE ALL AGREE that having the potential for a 24 month disparity between players isn’t good. What’s being discussed is not that. And if people really are having a hard time understanding that then there is nothing more anyone can do or say to help them do so.

Don't gaslight that thread. There's some clear questions about SY+90 and they pretty much don't think much of it.

I can’t tell if you’re joking

Anything SY+## is a joke, aka fiction. Lacrosse confirms expanding beyond 12 months causes disenchantment.

Does it though? Lacrosse seems to have had a bigger problem with the straight grad year.

I’m honestly having a hard time wondering why people are so butt hurt about a 60 days, or 61, etc. It’s just a reasonable solution to keep kids in the same school year.

Because playing down a year is viewed as cheating and it is not one of the options.

But nobody is playing down with SY+60 in fact it specifically protects against this.

July and August birthdates will be considered holdbacks, cheaters etc as they will need grade waivers to play down a year. This isn't the first rodeo for soccer so they aren't going to open the floodgates for parental harassment meaning the will hold fast to a 12 month window.

They’re not playing down a year. Can’t help you if you can’t grasp that.

Yes, they are playing down by definition if they are outside the established 12 month window.

We’re not talking about a 12 month window. We’re talking about grouping kids in their same grade with a slightly more flexible (and realistic) timeframe that includes all kids within a grade while protecting against extreme cases of holdbacks.

Yeah, I get it. You want a 12 month window with a few days shy of a full 2 months allowance for kids to playdown who will be referred to as cheaters. Like they are scorned in lacrosse.

Call them cheaters if you will. Scorn away. That’s all noise. What matters TO THESE KIDS is being able to play with their classmates like everyone else and not getting trapped, consistent with the dual goals of school year registration.

People making the argument about playing with classmates don't have kids that play at high levels of soccer or are U little parents with no understanding of travel soccer.

It’s more so school year (with bumpers) as opposed to classmates. The classmates thing goes away after U little because a lot of those kids move on to another sport anyway.

Definitely a bot.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:They already know what they are going to do at this point about age spans. They haven’t gotten this far and don’t know. So no amount of emailing them to allow this or that is going to matter.

I don't think they do. The US Youth Soccer guy hinted that they would be creating different rules to accommodate different districts/states. This will never work because districts change start dates all the time. Also it would be impossible to keep track of all the different states and school start dates to maintain up to date rules.

That is for local league. For national league, it can only have one cutoff date with no waivers. And ECNL CEO already hinted 9/1. I will bet my money on it.

We'll see, 9/1 + 60 gets rid of ALL complaints from parents + trapped players.

9/1 by itself still has trapped players depending on the state/district. Which means they'll still have a group of complaining parents.

ECNL will not give a f**k on those parents whose kids are marginal and can only play down to join NL. They will not bring value to ECNL.

Just reread your comment and I don't think you understand how 9/1 + 60 would work.

With 9/1 + 60 players born from 9/1 to 9/1 that year only need to show a birth cert to register to play.

If you were born 60 days before 9/1 you can play with your grade by providing a birth cert and proof of school enrollment at X grade.

All others that are a year older in school but are born 60 days before 9/1 won't be able to play down. (Because they're not in the correct grade in school)

Make sense? Nobody is playing down + all trapped players are addressed.

Scouts would only see one grade playing on the field during showcases.

They will go to a hard cutoff date if 9/1. If I remember right during the last podcast (I know, I know) they brought up percentage of players effected by saying 9/1 will be effect the least amount of players as opposed to 8/1. I would say they have thought it through and are going with a hard date. They don’t want to mess with +30-60 when they can just set the date.

The reason why I know 9/1 + 60 will happen is because it addresses all kinds of issues + makes things easier for clubs to implement SY.

Go listen to it then
They are just trying to minimize the trap player and never said eliminate the trap player. If you do the + 60 might as well go to a 14 month span….they are not going to do that.

You don't want to do this because it allows players to play down a grade in school.

9/1 + 60 doesn't allow (aug july) players who started school early and are a grade ahead to play down with the grade they should be in school.

+ 60 picks up kids born 60 days BEFORE the cutofff (9/1), right? Doesn’t that address kids who started school late (or have a school cutoff (8/1) that is earlier than the soccer cutoff (9/1))? I’m asking about players who are born AFTER the soccer cutoff. 9/1 cutoff for school and soccer says a Sept 2012 kid is u12 and 6th grade (the oldest in her class). But if that kid started school one year early, she’s actually in 7th grade (the youngest in her class) and her teammates are in 6th grade. +60 doesn’t address that, right?

Correct, 9/1 + 60 does not allow kids that are older (traditionally) than their grade in school to "play down" with their grade in school.

Put more bluntly if your kid is a "hold back / regrade" 9/1 + 60 won't let them play with the grade they're in at school.They"ll have to play with the grade up.

So the 9/1 + 60 is basically what USA Lacrosse has done, but limits it to two months as oppose to 3? You have a 9/1 soccer cutoff, but if you’re within 60 days of the cutoff (July and August months) then you can play with your graduation year. So if you’re born Aug 3, 2012, but a 2031 grad as opposed to a 2030 grad since you started late, then you’d play with your grad year since you’re within 60 days from the cutoff, right?

Kind of..

It also makes sure players who are of age but not in the correct grade can't play down.

Different opinion. 9/1+60 is stupid.

Everyone except you knows that you're embarrassing yourself.

Or it’s stupid and makes things more complicated than they need to be.

Anytime you give one subset an option you don’t give the others, it just screws up the system and lends itself to abuse.

Would 1/1+60 make sense? No.

9/1+60 only makes marginal sense because SY isn’t a clean date. But it’s not workable nationally, and it’s not workable competitively.

But it takes a stupid issue, age cutoffs, and just ups the complication, which makes it dumber than the underlying issue.

Welcome to a gigantic duh...

As I've said before I prefer BY because it's easier for clubs to implement + makes more sense.

I've only included 9/1 + 60 detail because it's the only way to implement SY + make it work for everyone involved.

Having a mid July kid and suggesting SY+60 is saying I want to be at the front of the line. Preferring BY over SY in this instance is saying I prefer to be in the middle of the line rather than the back. Just generic selfishness cloaked in pretend empathy.

Believe it or not but my kid is a trapped player and I still prefer BY. From a personal perspective this allows them to "play up" at a more challenging level.

But I would consider switching to a SY+60 league. SY+60 isn't that bad if it completely addressesed all trapped players. It would be nice to go to a tournament and everyone on the field was one grade.

It would be annoying switching to SY to address trapped players and there were still trapped players.

I think you give too much credit to "grades". They can vary especially by district and even more so, between public and private. That's why soccer really should stick to AGE.

SY+60 has an age window and grade requirements.

On paper, perhaps -- although it's not really been documented as an option in this youth soccer discussion anywhere, except as examples from other sports -- where they STRUGGLE with implementation/cheating.

SY+60 eligibility window is 14 months

Only players born between 7/1 and 9/1 would need to provide an additional proof of grade enrolled in school.

You might get a couple of players lieing about their grade in school. But they would still need to be in the 14 month eligibility window. Which means even though they're cheating they're also the same age as other players from different states. Annoying but not the end of the world + would be easy to address. Definately not GY though.

As mentioned several pages back, SY +60 rewards parents that held their July kid back or enrolled them late in states where the school cutoff is in August or September (almost all states). SY +60 guy doesn’t realize/understand/get that part.

What’s your definition of an award in this scenario? Bring the “oldest”? There will always be an oldest and youngest no matter what. The goal is to align as many kids within their school year that works across an entire country.

This argument for grade year is great and all but in this is a zero sum game, more people are against grade year than for it and leagues are against going grade year.

Nobody is argueing for GY.

They are argueing for SY+60 which completely bans the players GY allows.

That's what other sports have tried/trying and apparently failing at because it open's Pandora's box.

Can you give an actual example?

https://www.reddit.com/r/lacrosse/comments/1dck4jr/why_can_youth_lacrosse_not_go_to_birth_years/?sort=top

And Lacrosse made a change to fix that, which is very similar to this SY 60+ thing (I didn’t start that).

Hasn't filtered down very well ... https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1251438.page

So your sample size is a new post you started to get someone else’s opinion?

And that conversation doesn’t even talk about the change. It just talks about what it used to be.

Listen - NO ONE WANTS a true grade/grad year system because WE ALL AGREE that having the potential for a 24 month disparity between players isn’t good. What’s being discussed is not that. And if people really are having a hard time understanding that then there is nothing more anyone can do or say to help them do so.

Don't gaslight that thread. There's some clear questions about SY+90 and they pretty much don't think much of it.

I can’t tell if you’re joking

Anything SY+## is a joke, aka fiction. Lacrosse confirms expanding beyond 12 months causes disenchantment.

Does it though? Lacrosse seems to have had a bigger problem with the straight grad year.

I’m honestly having a hard time wondering why people are so butt hurt about a 60 days, or 61, etc. It’s just a reasonable solution to keep kids in the same school year.

Because playing down a year is viewed as cheating and it is not one of the options.

But nobody is playing down with SY+60 in fact it specifically protects against this.

July and August birthdates will be considered holdbacks, cheaters etc as they will need grade waivers to play down a year. This isn't the first rodeo for soccer so they aren't going to open the floodgates for parental harassment meaning the will hold fast to a 12 month window.

They’re not playing down a year. Can’t help you if you can’t grasp that.

Yes, they are playing down by definition if they are outside the established 12 month window.

We’re not talking about a 12 month window. We’re talking about grouping kids in their same grade with a slightly more flexible (and realistic) timeframe that includes all kids within a grade while protecting against extreme cases of holdbacks.

Yeah, I get it. You want a 12 month window with a few days shy of a full 2 months allowance for kids to playdown who will be referred to as cheaters. Like they are scorned in lacrosse.

Call them cheaters if you will. Scorn away. That’s all noise. What matters TO THESE KIDS is being able to play with their classmates like everyone else and not getting trapped, consistent with the dual goals of school year registration.

People making the argument about playing with classmates don't have kids that play at high levels of soccer or are U little parents with no understanding of travel soccer.

No one makes an argument why playing with classmates is what ECNL kids want, they make the argument that playing with classmates is how kids ENTER soccer. This is literally what US Club and everyone have been saying the whole time. They want kids to be able to play with classmates so they start playing soccer because more kids playing soccer means finding more exceptional soccer players.

When they talk about changing age groups they aren’t thinking about your ECNL daughter at all, not even for a second. They know they don’t care about their classmates. They’re not even thinking about current YNT kids who already found there way there or kids on a pro pathway. They are thinking 100000% about making more soccer players at all levels and ages.

Aren't rec programs already based on SY? Is LS an exception?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:They already know what they are going to do at this point about age spans. They haven’t gotten this far and don’t know. So no amount of emailing them to allow this or that is going to matter.

I don't think they do. The US Youth Soccer guy hinted that they would be creating different rules to accommodate different districts/states. This will never work because districts change start dates all the time. Also it would be impossible to keep track of all the different states and school start dates to maintain up to date rules.

That is for local league. For national league, it can only have one cutoff date with no waivers. And ECNL CEO already hinted 9/1. I will bet my money on it.

We'll see, 9/1 + 60 gets rid of ALL complaints from parents + trapped players.

9/1 by itself still has trapped players depending on the state/district. Which means they'll still have a group of complaining parents.

ECNL will not give a f**k on those parents whose kids are marginal and can only play down to join NL. They will not bring value to ECNL.

Just reread your comment and I don't think you understand how 9/1 + 60 would work.

With 9/1 + 60 players born from 9/1 to 9/1 that year only need to show a birth cert to register to play.

If you were born 60 days before 9/1 you can play with your grade by providing a birth cert and proof of school enrollment at X grade.

All others that are a year older in school but are born 60 days before 9/1 won't be able to play down. (Because they're not in the correct grade in school)

Make sense? Nobody is playing down + all trapped players are addressed.

Scouts would only see one grade playing on the field during showcases.

They will go to a hard cutoff date if 9/1. If I remember right during the last podcast (I know, I know) they brought up percentage of players effected by saying 9/1 will be effect the least amount of players as opposed to 8/1. I would say they have thought it through and are going with a hard date. They don’t want to mess with +30-60 when they can just set the date.

The reason why I know 9/1 + 60 will happen is because it addresses all kinds of issues + makes things easier for clubs to implement SY.

Go listen to it then
They are just trying to minimize the trap player and never said eliminate the trap player. If you do the + 60 might as well go to a 14 month span….they are not going to do that.

You don't want to do this because it allows players to play down a grade in school.

9/1 + 60 doesn't allow (aug july) players who started school early and are a grade ahead to play down with the grade they should be in school.

+ 60 picks up kids born 60 days BEFORE the cutofff (9/1), right? Doesn’t that address kids who started school late (or have a school cutoff (8/1) that is earlier than the soccer cutoff (9/1))? I’m asking about players who are born AFTER the soccer cutoff. 9/1 cutoff for school and soccer says a Sept 2012 kid is u12 and 6th grade (the oldest in her class). But if that kid started school one year early, she’s actually in 7th grade (the youngest in her class) and her teammates are in 6th grade. +60 doesn’t address that, right?

Correct, 9/1 + 60 does not allow kids that are older (traditionally) than their grade in school to "play down" with their grade in school.

Put more bluntly if your kid is a "hold back / regrade" 9/1 + 60 won't let them play with the grade they're in at school.They"ll have to play with the grade up.

So the 9/1 + 60 is basically what USA Lacrosse has done, but limits it to two months as oppose to 3? You have a 9/1 soccer cutoff, but if you’re within 60 days of the cutoff (July and August months) then you can play with your graduation year. So if you’re born Aug 3, 2012, but a 2031 grad as opposed to a 2030 grad since you started late, then you’d play with your grad year since you’re within 60 days from the cutoff, right?

Kind of..

It also makes sure players who are of age but not in the correct grade can't play down.

Different opinion. 9/1+60 is stupid.

Everyone except you knows that you're embarrassing yourself.

Or it’s stupid and makes things more complicated than they need to be.

Anytime you give one subset an option you don’t give the others, it just screws up the system and lends itself to abuse.

Would 1/1+60 make sense? No.

9/1+60 only makes marginal sense because SY isn’t a clean date. But it’s not workable nationally, and it’s not workable competitively.

But it takes a stupid issue, age cutoffs, and just ups the complication, which makes it dumber than the underlying issue.

Welcome to a gigantic duh...

As I've said before I prefer BY because it's easier for clubs to implement + makes more sense.

I've only included 9/1 + 60 detail because it's the only way to implement SY + make it work for everyone involved.

Having a mid July kid and suggesting SY+60 is saying I want to be at the front of the line. Preferring BY over SY in this instance is saying I prefer to be in the middle of the line rather than the back. Just generic selfishness cloaked in pretend empathy.

Believe it or not but my kid is a trapped player and I still prefer BY. From a personal perspective this allows them to "play up" at a more challenging level.

But I would consider switching to a SY+60 league. SY+60 isn't that bad if it completely addressesed all trapped players. It would be nice to go to a tournament and everyone on the field was one grade.

It would be annoying switching to SY to address trapped players and there were still trapped players.

I think you give too much credit to "grades". They can vary especially by district and even more so, between public and private. That's why soccer really should stick to AGE.

SY+60 has an age window and grade requirements.

On paper, perhaps -- although it's not really been documented as an option in this youth soccer discussion anywhere, except as examples from other sports -- where they STRUGGLE with implementation/cheating.

SY+60 eligibility window is 14 months

Only players born between 7/1 and 9/1 would need to provide an additional proof of grade enrolled in school.

You might get a couple of players lieing about their grade in school. But they would still need to be in the 14 month eligibility window. Which means even though they're cheating they're also the same age as other players from different states. Annoying but not the end of the world + would be easy to address. Definately not GY though.

As mentioned several pages back, SY +60 rewards parents that held their July kid back or enrolled them late in states where the school cutoff is in August or September (almost all states). SY +60 guy doesn’t realize/understand/get that part.

What’s your definition of an award in this scenario? Bring the “oldest”? There will always be an oldest and youngest no matter what. The goal is to align as many kids within their school year that works across an entire country.

This argument for grade year is great and all but in this is a zero sum game, more people are against grade year than for it and leagues are against going grade year.

Nobody is argueing for GY.

They are argueing for SY+60 which completely bans the players GY allows.

That's what other sports have tried/trying and apparently failing at because it open's Pandora's box.

Can you give an actual example?

https://www.reddit.com/r/lacrosse/comments/1dck4jr/why_can_youth_lacrosse_not_go_to_birth_years/?sort=top

And Lacrosse made a change to fix that, which is very similar to this SY 60+ thing (I didn’t start that).

Hasn't filtered down very well ... https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1251438.page

So your sample size is a new post you started to get someone else’s opinion?

And that conversation doesn’t even talk about the change. It just talks about what it used to be.

Listen - NO ONE WANTS a true grade/grad year system because WE ALL AGREE that having the potential for a 24 month disparity between players isn’t good. What’s being discussed is not that. And if people really are having a hard time understanding that then there is nothing more anyone can do or say to help them do so.

Don't gaslight that thread. There's some clear questions about SY+90 and they pretty much don't think much of it.

I can’t tell if you’re joking

Anything SY+## is a joke, aka fiction. Lacrosse confirms expanding beyond 12 months causes disenchantment.

Does it though? Lacrosse seems to have had a bigger problem with the straight grad year.

I’m honestly having a hard time wondering why people are so butt hurt about a 60 days, or 61, etc. It’s just a reasonable solution to keep kids in the same school year.

Because playing down a year is viewed as cheating and it is not one of the options.

But nobody is playing down with SY+60 in fact it specifically protects against this.

July and August birthdates will be considered holdbacks, cheaters etc as they will need grade waivers to play down a year. This isn't the first rodeo for soccer so they aren't going to open the floodgates for parental harassment meaning the will hold fast to a 12 month window.

They’re not playing down a year. Can’t help you if you can’t grasp that.

Yes, they are playing down by definition if they are outside the established 12 month window.

We’re not talking about a 12 month window. We’re talking about grouping kids in their same grade with a slightly more flexible (and realistic) timeframe that includes all kids within a grade while protecting against extreme cases of holdbacks.

Yeah, I get it. You want a 12 month window with a few days shy of a full 2 months allowance for kids to playdown who will be referred to as cheaters. Like they are scorned in lacrosse.

Call them cheaters if you will. Scorn away. That’s all noise. What matters TO THESE KIDS is being able to play with their classmates like everyone else and not getting trapped, consistent with the dual goals of school year registration.

People making the argument about playing with classmates don't have kids that play at high levels of soccer or are U little parents with no understanding of travel soccer.

It’s more so school year (with bumpers) as opposed to classmates. The classmates thing goes away after U little because a lot of those kids move on to another sport anyway.

Definitely a bot.

Bringer of truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BY +120

Great idea. Have you thought of going directly to leadership with your novel plan. Or posting ad nauseam of its virtues to end world hunger and create world peace? Best idea I've heard since getting a bb gun for Christmas.

Ha. 😀