Return to school: What about the MCPS magnets?

[Anonymous]

N.B: I’m using magnet very loosely here to mean all the especially programs that admit small groups of students whether by test or by application. That could be CAP at Blair or an ES language immersion. Please don’t derail the discussion over whether X program is really a magnet. For the purpose of this discussion, let’s assume it’s programs with 100 or fewer seats each entry year. For example, Magnet A admitted 100 students out of 900 applications and has a waiting list.

How will this fall impact magnets?

The point of magnets is rigorous learning in a peer cohort. Take away the cohort with 1/2 the 10th grade in Magnet A electing to learn at home and the experience is not the same.

Magnet classes are usually taught by teachers with experience teaching highly gifted students. If classes are split in two to permit social distancing, what does the teaching look like? Will there be eight rather than four grade 7 magnet sections at Magnet B. Will the school hire twice as many teachers with some sections taught by teachers shifted from non-magnet courses? Or will students do a two days on/three days off schedule so everyone has the same experienced teacher?

[Anonymous]

My child just graduated from a competitive magnet after being in magnets since 4th grade. The teachers are really a mixed bag. Some have years of magnet experience and GT training. Others are new/inexperienced - similar to every kids public school experience. Some are really special and committed to the magnets. Others are not.

I do not think magnet kids will suffer any more or less than other MCPS kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:N.B: I’m using magnet very loosely here to mean all the especially programs that admit small groups of students whether by test or by application. That could be CAP at Blair or an ES language immersion. Please don’t derail the discussion over whether X program is really a magnet. For the purpose of this discussion, let’s assume it’s programs with 100 or fewer seats each entry year. For example, Magnet A admitted 100 students out of 900 applications and has a waiting list.

How will this fall impact magnets?

The point of magnets is rigorous learning in a peer cohort. Take away the cohort with 1/2 the 10th grade in Magnet A electing to learn at home and the experience is not the same.

Magnet classes are usually taught by teachers with experience teaching highly gifted students. If classes are split in two to permit social distancing, what does the teaching look like? Will there be eight rather than four grade 7 magnet sections at Magnet B. Will the school hire twice as many teachers with some sections taught by teachers shifted from non-magnet courses? Or will students do a two days on/three days off schedule so everyone has the same experienced teacher?

Not really. The point of magnets is providing students with opportunities to receive specialized instruction in schools outside of their local attendance boundaries.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/info/choice/ChoiceStudyReport-Version2-20160307.pdf

[Anonymous]

I think that the one thing you can bet on is the magnet programs not getting disproportionate resources - time physically in school, additional teachers, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:N.B: I’m using magnet very loosely here to mean all the especially programs that admit small groups of students whether by test or by application. That could be CAP at Blair or an ES language immersion. Please don’t derail the discussion over whether X program is really a magnet. For the purpose of this discussion, let’s assume it’s programs with 100 or fewer seats each entry year. For example, Magnet A admitted 100 students out of 900 applications and has a waiting list.

How will this fall impact magnets?

The point of magnets is rigorous learning in a peer cohort. Take away the cohort with 1/2 the 10th grade in Magnet A electing to learn at home and the experience is not the same.

Magnet classes are usually taught by teachers with experience teaching highly gifted students. If classes are split in two to permit social distancing, what does the teaching look like? Will there be eight rather than four grade 7 magnet sections at Magnet B. Will the school hire twice as many teachers with some sections taught by teachers shifted from non-magnet courses? Or will students do a two days on/three days off schedule so everyone has the same experienced teacher?

Not really. The point of magnets is providing students with opportunities to receive specialized instruction in schools outside of their local attendance boundaries.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/info/choice/ChoiceStudyReport-Version2-20160307.pdf

That’s a definition of a magnet, not a reason students choose magnet. Families would just as happily receive specialized instruction at their home schools if available. 2018-19 and 2019-20 saw many admitted MS magnet families do exactly that by selecting enriched courses rather than hour long commutes. If the high schools offered mini-magnets, the same would happen. People do the commute for courses AND cohort, not for courses and commute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:N.B: I’m using magnet very loosely here to mean all the especially programs that admit small groups of students whether by test or by application. That could be CAP at Blair or an ES language immersion. Please don’t derail the discussion over whether X program is really a magnet. For the purpose of this discussion, let’s assume it’s programs with 100 or fewer seats each entry year. For example, Magnet A admitted 100 students out of 900 applications and has a waiting list.

How will this fall impact magnets?

The point of magnets is rigorous learning in a peer cohort. Take away the cohort with 1/2 the 10th grade in Magnet A electing to learn at home and the experience is not the same.

Magnet classes are usually taught by teachers with experience teaching highly gifted students. If classes are split in two to permit social distancing, what does the teaching look like? Will there be eight rather than four grade 7 magnet sections at Magnet B. Will the school hire twice as many teachers with some sections taught by teachers shifted from non-magnet courses? Or will students do a two days on/three days off schedule so everyone has the same experienced teacher?

Not really. The point of magnets is providing students with opportunities to receive specialized instruction in schools outside of their local attendance boundaries.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/info/choice/ChoiceStudyReport-Version2-20160307.pdf

That’s a definition of a magnet, not a reason students choose magnet. Families would just as happily receive specialized instruction at their home schools if available. 2018-19 and 2019-20 saw many admitted MS magnet families do exactly that by selecting enriched courses rather than hour long commutes. If the high schools offered mini-magnets, the same would happen. People do the commute for courses AND cohort, not for courses and commute.

Really because it seemed to me there were tons of furious middle school families posting here about not being accepted to magnets despite high scores..and then further furry when the "specialized instruction" was offered to all students at several middle schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:N.B: I’m using magnet very loosely here to mean all the especially programs that admit small groups of students whether by test or by application. That could be CAP at Blair or an ES language immersion. Please don’t derail the discussion over whether X program is really a magnet. For the purpose of this discussion, let’s assume it’s programs with 100 or fewer seats each entry year. For example, Magnet A admitted 100 students out of 900 applications and has a waiting list.

How will this fall impact magnets?

The point of magnets is rigorous learning in a peer cohort. Take away the cohort with 1/2 the 10th grade in Magnet A electing to learn at home and the experience is not the same.

Magnet classes are usually taught by teachers with experience teaching highly gifted students. If classes are split in two to permit social distancing, what does the teaching look like? Will there be eight rather than four grade 7 magnet sections at Magnet B. Will the school hire twice as many teachers with some sections taught by teachers shifted from non-magnet courses? Or will students do a two days on/three days off schedule so everyone has the same experienced teacher?

Not really. The point of magnets is providing students with opportunities to receive specialized instruction in schools outside of their local attendance boundaries.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/info/choice/ChoiceStudyReport-Version2-20160307.pdf

That’s a definition of a magnet, not a reason students choose magnet. Families would just as happily receive specialized instruction at their home schools if available. 2018-19 and 2019-20 saw many admitted MS magnet families do exactly that by selecting enriched courses rather than hour long commutes. If the high schools offered mini-magnets, the same would happen. People do the commute for courses AND cohort, not for courses and commute.

The reason students/parents chose a magnet really isn't relevant to MCPS's decisions about this fall. MCPS will offer what it offers, which almost certainly will not be special treatment for students in magnet programs (nor should it be). If parents don't want their students to be part of the magnet program under those conditions, they can return their students to their local school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child just graduated from a competitive magnet after being in magnets since 4th grade. The teachers are really a mixed bag. Some have years of magnet experience and GT training. Others are new/inexperienced - similar to every kids public school experience. Some are really special and committed to the magnets. Others are not.

I do not think magnet kids will suffer any more or less than other MCPS kids.

+1
I have one kid currently in a magnet, and the switch to DL was pretty dismal for several of the magnet teachers. (The couple of Honors classes were fine, and much better in comparison.) The disadvantage for the magnet teachers (and any specialized program/electives) is that those teachers individually have to convert their courses to online learning. Countywide courses/curriculum provided online content to teachers, which they could modify if they wished. The same will continue next year. I let the magnet coordinator know at the end of the spring of the problems with the magnet courses and suggested that there needed to be targeted training for teachers and review of magnet courses internally before next fall.

Not really. The point of magnets is providing students with opportunities to receive specialized instruction in schools outside of their local attendance boundaries.

Yes, but part of the instructional process is working with peers. The peer cohort and interactions has always been an important part of the magnets (be they test-in, lottery, or immersion). You are grouping like-minded students together and that changes the way teaching and learning occur.

To OPs question, the lack of peer interaction was definitely unfortunate this spring, but should be improved next fall with DL. However, it will never been the same as in-person (which is true for all students). Depending on how next year goes, we may re-evaluate options for 2021-22 school year. I think this is the same for all families - current learning situation is not ideal for most kids, everyone will make the best of a poor situation, and everyone will be constantly evaluating whether a different solution meets their child's needs better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child just graduated from a competitive magnet after being in magnets since 4th grade. The teachers are really a mixed bag. Some have years of magnet experience and GT training. Others are new/inexperienced - similar to every kids public school experience. Some are really special and committed to the magnets. Others are not.

I do not think magnet kids will suffer any more or less than other MCPS kids.

+1
I have one kid currently in a magnet, and the switch to DL was pretty dismal for several of the magnet teachers. (The couple of Honors classes were fine, and much better in comparison.) The disadvantage for the magnet teachers (and any specialized program/electives) is that those teachers individually have to convert their courses to online learning. Countywide courses/curriculum provided online content to teachers, which they could modify if they wished. The same will continue next year. I let the magnet coordinator know at the end of the spring of the problems with the magnet courses and suggested that there needed to be targeted training for teachers and review of magnet courses internally before next fall.

Not really. The point of magnets is providing students with opportunities to receive specialized instruction in schools outside of their local attendance boundaries.

Yes, but part of the instructional process is working with peers. The peer cohort and interactions has always been an important part of the magnets (be they test-in, lottery, or immersion). You are grouping like-minded students together and that changes the way teaching and learning occur.

To OPs question, the lack of peer interaction was definitely unfortunate this spring, but should be improved next fall with DL. However, it will never been the same as in-person (which is true for all students). Depending on how next year goes, we may re-evaluate options for 2021-22 school year. I think this is the same for all families - current learning situation is not ideal for most kids, everyone will make the best of a poor situation, and everyone will be constantly evaluating whether a different solution meets their child's needs better.

That's true for school in general.

Also, the idea of "like-minded students" may be true for high school application magnet programs, but otherwise, no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child just graduated from a competitive magnet after being in magnets since 4th grade. The teachers are really a mixed bag. Some have years of magnet experience and GT training. Others are new/inexperienced - similar to every kids public school experience. Some are really special and committed to the magnets. Others are not.

I do not think magnet kids will suffer any more or less than other MCPS kids.

+1
I have one kid currently in a magnet, and the switch to DL was pretty dismal for several of the magnet teachers. (The couple of Honors classes were fine, and much better in comparison.) The disadvantage for the magnet teachers (and any specialized program/electives) is that those teachers individually have to convert their courses to online learning. Countywide courses/curriculum provided online content to teachers, which they could modify if they wished. The same will continue next year. I let the magnet coordinator know at the end of the spring of the problems with the magnet courses and suggested that there needed to be targeted training for teachers and review of magnet courses internally before next fall.

Not really. The point of magnets is providing students with opportunities to receive specialized instruction in schools outside of their local attendance boundaries.

Yes, but part of the instructional process is working with peers. The peer cohort and interactions has always been an important part of the magnets (be they test-in, lottery, or immersion). You are grouping like-minded students together and that changes the way teaching and learning occur.

To OPs question, the lack of peer interaction was definitely unfortunate this spring, but should be improved next fall with DL. However, it will never been the same as in-person (which is true for all students). Depending on how next year goes, we may re-evaluate options for 2021-22 school year. I think this is the same for all families - current learning situation is not ideal for most kids, everyone will make the best of a poor situation, and everyone will be constantly evaluating whether a different solution meets their child's needs better.

That's true for school in general.

Also, the idea of "like-minded students" may be true for high school application magnet programs, but otherwise, no.

It’s true for the 4 MS test-in programs as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child just graduated from a competitive magnet after being in magnets since 4th grade. The teachers are really a mixed bag. Some have years of magnet experience and GT training. Others are new/inexperienced - similar to every kids public school experience. Some are really special and committed to the magnets. Others are not.

I do not think magnet kids will suffer any more or less than other MCPS kids.

+1
I have one kid currently in a magnet, and the switch to DL was pretty dismal for several of the magnet teachers. (The couple of Honors classes were fine, and much better in comparison.) The disadvantage for the magnet teachers (and any specialized program/electives) is that those teachers individually have to convert their courses to online learning. Countywide courses/curriculum provided online content to teachers, which they could modify if they wished. The same will continue next year. I let the magnet coordinator know at the end of the spring of the problems with the magnet courses and suggested that there needed to be targeted training for teachers and review of magnet courses internally before next fall.

Not really. The point of magnets is providing students with opportunities to receive specialized instruction in schools outside of their local attendance boundaries.

Yes, but part of the instructional process is working with peers. The peer cohort and interactions has always been an important part of the magnets (be they test-in, lottery, or immersion). You are grouping like-minded students together and that changes the way teaching and learning occur.

To OPs question, the lack of peer interaction was definitely unfortunate this spring, but should be improved next fall with DL. However, it will never been the same as in-person (which is true for all students). Depending on how next year goes, we may re-evaluate options for 2021-22 school year. I think this is the same for all families - current learning situation is not ideal for most kids, everyone will make the best of a poor situation, and everyone will be constantly evaluating whether a different solution meets their child's needs better.

That's true for school in general.

Also, the idea of "like-minded students" may be true for high school application magnet programs, but otherwise, no.

It’s true for the 4 MS test-in programs as well.

Not in my kid's experience of their MS test-in program, it wasn't.

[Anonymous]

The home school advanced courses don't offer the same rigor/cohesive program, though that seems almost beside the point right now. The PP is right. It will be what it will be. Every parent will be assessing their child's needs, taking stock of their options and resources, and either changing course or making the most of whatever is available. I would join forces with other parents in your kid's magnet program to arrange small group projects and hangouts to meet your child's social and academic needs. You may be able to do this outside while the weather is nice, maybe go for a group hike etc, as opposed to relying entirely on school and Zoom for this. In my experience, many of the kids who move to the magnet do so not just for the academics, but to find the right peer group. That's equally important. Some are socially precocious, but others have social skills gaps and they need to work on those. Their development can be uneven, with their academic skills eclipsing their ability to relate to friends. The kids in magnet programs also tend to do a lot of reading, exploration etc. on their own and will lose less ground than some others. MCPS knows that and they definitely won't be MCPS's top priority. I don't say that to be discouraging, it's just the way it is. I work in the schools as a counselor, so that has informed my perspective on this.

[Anonymous]

I have a kid in a CES and one in a middle school magnet, so I've been wondering about this. The fact that there are fewer teachers trained to teach these classes (i.e., one teacher per grade for each of the middle school magnet classes) makes me wonder how that will work if there is a choice between DL and hybrid/in-person options, as FCPS is offering. I hope that if we are asked to choose between DL and hybrid options that there will be some information about how the magnet classes will work and whether the DL vs. hybrid options will be equivalent. I don't expect this to be a county priority for resources, but I hope the principals of the schools hosting magnet programs will be putting some effort towards figuring this out.

[Anonymous]

It might be like the decision in VA to not offer IB if the family selects DL.

By selecting DL, an admitted or current magnet student might be enrolled instead in a non-magnet course being taught online. That could mean an enriched course for MS or an Honors or AP course for HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:N.B: I’m using magnet very loosely here to mean all the especially programs that admit small groups of students whether by test or by application. That could be CAP at Blair or an ES language immersion. Please don’t derail the discussion over whether X program is really a magnet. For the purpose of this discussion, let’s assume it’s programs with 100 or fewer seats each entry year. For example, Magnet A admitted 100 students out of 900 applications and has a waiting list.

How will this fall impact magnets?

The point of magnets is rigorous learning in a peer cohort. Take away the cohort with 1/2 the 10th grade in Magnet A electing to learn at home and the experience is not the same.

Magnet classes are usually taught by teachers with experience teaching highly gifted students. If classes are split in two to permit social distancing, what does the teaching look like? Will there be eight rather than four grade 7 magnet sections at Magnet B. Will the school hire twice as many teachers with some sections taught by teachers shifted from non-magnet courses? Or will students do a two days on/three days off schedule so everyone has the same experienced teacher?

Not really. The point of magnets is providing students with opportunities to receive specialized instruction in schools outside of their local attendance boundaries.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/info/choice/ChoiceStudyReport-Version2-20160307.pdf

That’s a definition of a magnet, not a reason students choose magnet. Families would just as happily receive specialized instruction at their home schools if available. 2018-19 and 2019-20 saw many admitted MS magnet families do exactly that by selecting enriched courses rather than hour long commutes. If the high schools offered mini-magnets, the same would happen. People do the commute for courses AND cohort, not for courses and commute.

Really because it seemed to me there were tons of furious middle school families posting here about not being accepted to magnets despite high scores..and then further furry when the "specialized instruction" was offered to all students at several middle schools.

Magnets are about getting the right kids to go to the right schools. The specialized instruction is the carrot that gets the high SES kid's parents to send their kids to schools they otherwise wouldn't