ECNL moving to school year not calendar

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:They already know what they are going to do at this point about age spans. They haven’t gotten this far and don’t know. So no amount of emailing them to allow this or that is going to matter.

I don't think they do. The US Youth Soccer guy hinted that they would be creating different rules to accommodate different districts/states. This will never work because districts change start dates all the time. Also it would be impossible to keep track of all the different states and school start dates to maintain up to date rules.

That is for local league. For national league, it can only have one cutoff date with no waivers. And ECNL CEO already hinted 9/1. I will bet my money on it.

We'll see, 9/1 + 60 gets rid of ALL complaints from parents + trapped players.

9/1 by itself still has trapped players depending on the state/district. Which means they'll still have a group of complaining parents.

ECNL will not give a f**k on those parents whose kids are marginal and can only play down to join NL. They will not bring value to ECNL.

Just reread your comment and I don't think you understand how 9/1 + 60 would work.

With 9/1 + 60 players born from 9/1 to 9/1 that year only need to show a birth cert to register to play.

If you were born 60 days before 9/1 you can play with your grade by providing a birth cert and proof of school enrollment at X grade.

All others that are a year older in school but are born 60 days before 9/1 won't be able to play down. (Because they're not in the correct grade in school)

Make sense? Nobody is playing down + all trapped players are addressed.

Scouts would only see one grade playing on the field during showcases.

They will go to a hard cutoff date if 9/1. If I remember right during the last podcast (I know, I know) they brought up percentage of players effected by saying 9/1 will be effect the least amount of players as opposed to 8/1. I would say they have thought it through and are going with a hard date. They don’t want to mess with +30-60 when they can just set the date.

The reason why I know 9/1 + 60 will happen is because it addresses all kinds of issues + makes things easier for clubs to implement SY.

Go listen to it then
They are just trying to minimize the trap player and never said eliminate the trap player. If you do the + 60 might as well go to a 14 month span….they are not going to do that.

You don't want to do this because it allows players to play down a grade in school.

9/1 + 60 doesn't allow (aug july) players who started school early and are a grade ahead to play down with the grade they should be in school.

+ 60 picks up kids born 60 days BEFORE the cutofff (9/1), right? Doesn’t that address kids who started school late (or have a school cutoff (8/1) that is earlier than the soccer cutoff (9/1))? I’m asking about players who are born AFTER the soccer cutoff. 9/1 cutoff for school and soccer says a Sept 2012 kid is u12 and 6th grade (the oldest in her class). But if that kid started school one year early, she’s actually in 7th grade (the youngest in her class) and her teammates are in 6th grade. +60 doesn’t address that, right?

Correct, 9/1 + 60 does not allow kids that are older (traditionally) than their grade in school to "play down" with their grade in school.

Put more bluntly if your kid is a "hold back / regrade" 9/1 + 60 won't let them play with the grade they're in at school.They"ll have to play with the grade up.

So the 9/1 + 60 is basically what USA Lacrosse has done, but limits it to two months as oppose to 3? You have a 9/1 soccer cutoff, but if you’re within 60 days of the cutoff (July and August months) then you can play with your graduation year. So if you’re born Aug 3, 2012, but a 2031 grad as opposed to a 2030 grad since you started late, then you’d play with your grad year since you’re within 60 days from the cutoff, right?

Kind of..

It also makes sure players who are of age but not in the correct grade can't play down.

Different opinion. 9/1+60 is stupid.

Everyone except you knows that you're embarrassing yourself.

Or it’s stupid and makes things more complicated than they need to be.

Anytime you give one subset an option you don’t give the others, it just screws up the system and lends itself to abuse.

Would 1/1+60 make sense? No.

9/1+60 only makes marginal sense because SY isn’t a clean date. But it’s not workable nationally, and it’s not workable competitively.

But it takes a stupid issue, age cutoffs, and just ups the complication, which makes it dumber than the underlying issue.

Welcome to a gigantic duh...

As I've said before I prefer BY because it's easier for clubs to implement + makes more sense.

I've only included 9/1 + 60 detail because it's the only way to implement SY + make it work for everyone involved.

Having a mid July kid and suggesting SY+60 is saying I want to be at the front of the line. Preferring BY over SY in this instance is saying I prefer to be in the middle of the line rather than the back. Just generic selfishness cloaked in pretend empathy.

Believe it or not but my kid is a trapped player and I still prefer BY. From a personal perspective this allows them to "play up" at a more challenging level.

But I would consider switching to a SY+60 league. SY+60 isn't that bad if it completely addressesed all trapped players. It would be nice to go to a tournament and everyone on the field was one grade.

It would be annoying switching to SY to address trapped players and there were still trapped players.

I think you give too much credit to "grades". They can vary especially by district and even more so, between public and private. That's why soccer really should stick to AGE.

SY+60 has an age window and grade requirements.

On paper, perhaps -- although it's not really been documented as an option in this youth soccer discussion anywhere, except as examples from other sports -- where they STRUGGLE with implementation/cheating.

SY+60 eligibility window is 14 months

Only players born between 7/1 and 9/1 would need to provide an additional proof of grade enrolled in school.

You might get a couple of players lieing about their grade in school. But they would still need to be in the 14 month eligibility window. Which means even though they're cheating they're also the same age as other players from different states. Annoying but not the end of the world + would be easy to address. Definately not GY though.

As mentioned several pages back, SY +60 rewards parents that held their July kid back or enrolled them late in states where the school cutoff is in August or September (almost all states). SY +60 guy doesn’t realize/understand/get that part.

What’s your definition of an award in this scenario? Bring the “oldest”? There will always be an oldest and youngest no matter what. The goal is to align as many kids within their school year that works across an entire country.

This argument for grade year is great and all but in this is a zero sum game, more people are against grade year than for it and leagues are against going grade year.

Nobody is argueing for GY.

They are argueing for SY+60 which completely bans the players GY allows.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:“Regrades”? These are kids! How about some humanity and remembering that these are kids we are focused on. I guess parents should tell their Kindergarten child who was born in late August and wants to join their school soccer team that they can’t because they are a “regrade” because their preschool teachers and pediatrician recommended they do a Pre-K year before starting Kindergarten. 🙄

Good point. .... Still, if it's a school soccer team, there is no problem whatsoever.

That’s not true. Most local leagues that school teams play in are under the umbrella of SFYS/AYSO/US Club. They aren’t run by the school they are just formed by parents and filled with kids in the grade.

The folks at soccerparenting.com who've written about the change disagree (The argue for a switch to SY, btw). They report many rec leagues never changed because they preferred grades. Then, school systems themselves, of course, at middle and high school play by grade.

School systems do not play by grade

They do ... 7-8 and 9-12.

😒 that’s is “gradeS” at best.

There is not play by grade in school, it is play by school level.

Stop being so pedantic. Schools play by grade. Often. In MS, there's usually a 7th grade team AND 8th grade team. Sometimes they are combined. In big HS, there's often a freshmen (9th grade team). Geez.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:They already know what they are going to do at this point about age spans. They haven’t gotten this far and don’t know. So no amount of emailing them to allow this or that is going to matter.

I don't think they do. The US Youth Soccer guy hinted that they would be creating different rules to accommodate different districts/states. This will never work because districts change start dates all the time. Also it would be impossible to keep track of all the different states and school start dates to maintain up to date rules.

That is for local league. For national league, it can only have one cutoff date with no waivers. And ECNL CEO already hinted 9/1. I will bet my money on it.

We'll see, 9/1 + 60 gets rid of ALL complaints from parents + trapped players.

9/1 by itself still has trapped players depending on the state/district. Which means they'll still have a group of complaining parents.

ECNL will not give a f**k on those parents whose kids are marginal and can only play down to join NL. They will not bring value to ECNL.

Just reread your comment and I don't think you understand how 9/1 + 60 would work.

With 9/1 + 60 players born from 9/1 to 9/1 that year only need to show a birth cert to register to play.

If you were born 60 days before 9/1 you can play with your grade by providing a birth cert and proof of school enrollment at X grade.

All others that are a year older in school but are born 60 days before 9/1 won't be able to play down. (Because they're not in the correct grade in school)

Make sense? Nobody is playing down + all trapped players are addressed.

Scouts would only see one grade playing on the field during showcases.

They will go to a hard cutoff date if 9/1. If I remember right during the last podcast (I know, I know) they brought up percentage of players effected by saying 9/1 will be effect the least amount of players as opposed to 8/1. I would say they have thought it through and are going with a hard date. They don’t want to mess with +30-60 when they can just set the date.

The reason why I know 9/1 + 60 will happen is because it addresses all kinds of issues + makes things easier for clubs to implement SY.

Go listen to it then
They are just trying to minimize the trap player and never said eliminate the trap player. If you do the + 60 might as well go to a 14 month span….they are not going to do that.

You don't want to do this because it allows players to play down a grade in school.

9/1 + 60 doesn't allow (aug july) players who started school early and are a grade ahead to play down with the grade they should be in school.

+ 60 picks up kids born 60 days BEFORE the cutofff (9/1), right? Doesn’t that address kids who started school late (or have a school cutoff (8/1) that is earlier than the soccer cutoff (9/1))? I’m asking about players who are born AFTER the soccer cutoff. 9/1 cutoff for school and soccer says a Sept 2012 kid is u12 and 6th grade (the oldest in her class). But if that kid started school one year early, she’s actually in 7th grade (the youngest in her class) and her teammates are in 6th grade. +60 doesn’t address that, right?

Correct, 9/1 + 60 does not allow kids that are older (traditionally) than their grade in school to "play down" with their grade in school.

Put more bluntly if your kid is a "hold back / regrade" 9/1 + 60 won't let them play with the grade they're in at school.They"ll have to play with the grade up.

So the 9/1 + 60 is basically what USA Lacrosse has done, but limits it to two months as oppose to 3? You have a 9/1 soccer cutoff, but if you’re within 60 days of the cutoff (July and August months) then you can play with your graduation year. So if you’re born Aug 3, 2012, but a 2031 grad as opposed to a 2030 grad since you started late, then you’d play with your grad year since you’re within 60 days from the cutoff, right?

Kind of..

It also makes sure players who are of age but not in the correct grade can't play down.

Different opinion. 9/1+60 is stupid.

Everyone except you knows that you're embarrassing yourself.

Or it’s stupid and makes things more complicated than they need to be.

Anytime you give one subset an option you don’t give the others, it just screws up the system and lends itself to abuse.

Would 1/1+60 make sense? No.

9/1+60 only makes marginal sense because SY isn’t a clean date. But it’s not workable nationally, and it’s not workable competitively.

But it takes a stupid issue, age cutoffs, and just ups the complication, which makes it dumber than the underlying issue.

Welcome to a gigantic duh...

As I've said before I prefer BY because it's easier for clubs to implement + makes more sense.

I've only included 9/1 + 60 detail because it's the only way to implement SY + make it work for everyone involved.

Having a mid July kid and suggesting SY+60 is saying I want to be at the front of the line. Preferring BY over SY in this instance is saying I prefer to be in the middle of the line rather than the back. Just generic selfishness cloaked in pretend empathy.

Believe it or not but my kid is a trapped player and I still prefer BY. From a personal perspective this allows them to "play up" at a more challenging level.

But I would consider switching to a SY+60 league. SY+60 isn't that bad if it completely addressesed all trapped players. It would be nice to go to a tournament and everyone on the field was one grade.

It would be annoying switching to SY to address trapped players and there were still trapped players.

I think you give too much credit to "grades". They can vary especially by district and even more so, between public and private. That's why soccer really should stick to AGE.

SY+60 has an age window and grade requirements.

On paper, perhaps -- although it's not really been documented as an option in this youth soccer discussion anywhere, except as examples from other sports -- where they STRUGGLE with implementation/cheating.

SY+60 eligibility window is 14 months

Only players born between 7/1 and 9/1 would need to provide an additional proof of grade enrolled in school.

You might get a couple of players lieing about their grade in school. But they would still need to be in the 14 month eligibility window. Which means even though they're cheating they're also the same age as other players from different states. Annoying but not the end of the world + would be easy to address. Definately not GY though.

As mentioned several pages back, SY +60 rewards parents that held their July kid back or enrolled them late in states where the school cutoff is in August or September (almost all states). SY +60 guy doesn’t realize/understand/get that part.

I understand completely and there's states who's cutoff is in July.

I'm happy trading 2 months of potential RAE for completely eliminating all trapped players.

It's not that big of a deal, 2 months will not change anything. The only time 2 months would come into play is when different states with different cutoff dates would play each other. And again it's 2 months!

Serious merit to 7/1 to 6/30. If misaligned, play up with your grade if you want. But I don't think it is being considered.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:They already know what they are going to do at this point about age spans. They haven’t gotten this far and don’t know. So no amount of emailing them to allow this or that is going to matter.

I don't think they do. The US Youth Soccer guy hinted that they would be creating different rules to accommodate different districts/states. This will never work because districts change start dates all the time. Also it would be impossible to keep track of all the different states and school start dates to maintain up to date rules.

That is for local league. For national league, it can only have one cutoff date with no waivers. And ECNL CEO already hinted 9/1. I will bet my money on it.

We'll see, 9/1 + 60 gets rid of ALL complaints from parents + trapped players.

9/1 by itself still has trapped players depending on the state/district. Which means they'll still have a group of complaining parents.

ECNL will not give a f**k on those parents whose kids are marginal and can only play down to join NL. They will not bring value to ECNL.

Just reread your comment and I don't think you understand how 9/1 + 60 would work.

With 9/1 + 60 players born from 9/1 to 9/1 that year only need to show a birth cert to register to play.

If you were born 60 days before 9/1 you can play with your grade by providing a birth cert and proof of school enrollment at X grade.

All others that are a year older in school but are born 60 days before 9/1 won't be able to play down. (Because they're not in the correct grade in school)

Make sense? Nobody is playing down + all trapped players are addressed.

Scouts would only see one grade playing on the field during showcases.

They will go to a hard cutoff date if 9/1. If I remember right during the last podcast (I know, I know) they brought up percentage of players effected by saying 9/1 will be effect the least amount of players as opposed to 8/1. I would say they have thought it through and are going with a hard date. They don’t want to mess with +30-60 when they can just set the date.

The reason why I know 9/1 + 60 will happen is because it addresses all kinds of issues + makes things easier for clubs to implement SY.

Go listen to it then
They are just trying to minimize the trap player and never said eliminate the trap player. If you do the + 60 might as well go to a 14 month span….they are not going to do that.

You don't want to do this because it allows players to play down a grade in school.

9/1 + 60 doesn't allow (aug july) players who started school early and are a grade ahead to play down with the grade they should be in school.

+ 60 picks up kids born 60 days BEFORE the cutofff (9/1), right? Doesn’t that address kids who started school late (or have a school cutoff (8/1) that is earlier than the soccer cutoff (9/1))? I’m asking about players who are born AFTER the soccer cutoff. 9/1 cutoff for school and soccer says a Sept 2012 kid is u12 and 6th grade (the oldest in her class). But if that kid started school one year early, she’s actually in 7th grade (the youngest in her class) and her teammates are in 6th grade. +60 doesn’t address that, right?

Correct, 9/1 + 60 does not allow kids that are older (traditionally) than their grade in school to "play down" with their grade in school.

Put more bluntly if your kid is a "hold back / regrade" 9/1 + 60 won't let them play with the grade they're in at school.They"ll have to play with the grade up.

So the 9/1 + 60 is basically what USA Lacrosse has done, but limits it to two months as oppose to 3? You have a 9/1 soccer cutoff, but if you’re within 60 days of the cutoff (July and August months) then you can play with your graduation year. So if you’re born Aug 3, 2012, but a 2031 grad as opposed to a 2030 grad since you started late, then you’d play with your grad year since you’re within 60 days from the cutoff, right?

Kind of..

It also makes sure players who are of age but not in the correct grade can't play down.

Different opinion. 9/1+60 is stupid.

Everyone except you knows that you're embarrassing yourself.

Or it’s stupid and makes things more complicated than they need to be.

Anytime you give one subset an option you don’t give the others, it just screws up the system and lends itself to abuse.

Would 1/1+60 make sense? No.

9/1+60 only makes marginal sense because SY isn’t a clean date. But it’s not workable nationally, and it’s not workable competitively.

But it takes a stupid issue, age cutoffs, and just ups the complication, which makes it dumber than the underlying issue.

Welcome to a gigantic duh...

As I've said before I prefer BY because it's easier for clubs to implement + makes more sense.

I've only included 9/1 + 60 detail because it's the only way to implement SY + make it work for everyone involved.

Having a mid July kid and suggesting SY+60 is saying I want to be at the front of the line. Preferring BY over SY in this instance is saying I prefer to be in the middle of the line rather than the back. Just generic selfishness cloaked in pretend empathy.

Believe it or not but my kid is a trapped player and I still prefer BY. From a personal perspective this allows them to "play up" at a more challenging level.

But I would consider switching to a SY+60 league. SY+60 isn't that bad if it completely addressesed all trapped players. It would be nice to go to a tournament and everyone on the field was one grade.

It would be annoying switching to SY to address trapped players and there were still trapped players.

I think you give too much credit to "grades". They can vary especially by district and even more so, between public and private. That's why soccer really should stick to AGE.

SY+60 has an age window and grade requirements.

On paper, perhaps -- although it's not really been documented as an option in this youth soccer discussion anywhere, except as examples from other sports -- where they STRUGGLE with implementation/cheating.

SY+60 eligibility window is 14 months

Only players born between 7/1 and 9/1 would need to provide an additional proof of grade enrolled in school.

You might get a couple of players lieing about their grade in school. But they would still need to be in the 14 month eligibility window. Which means even though they're cheating they're also the same age as other players from different states. Annoying but not the end of the world + would be easy to address. Definately not GY though.

As mentioned several pages back, SY +60 rewards parents that held their July kid back or enrolled them late in states where the school cutoff is in August or September (almost all states). SY +60 guy doesn’t realize/understand/get that part.

I understand completely and there's states who's cutoff is in July.

I'm happy trading 2 months of potential RAE for completely eliminating all trapped players.

It's not that big of a deal, 2 months will not change anything. The only time 2 months would come into play is when different states with different cutoff dates would play each other. And again it's 2 months!

2 months for a state may mean a lot vs. a state that has a later registration date. Some are October, i think. Now that window gets wider, doesn't it? I think what people properly point out is you can't have a uniform system, even to include all the SAME grade. It's a fool's errand and instead the tweaking just seems like trying to give some group in the new system an advantage (which is very youth sports/soccer).

[Anonymous]

Some posters here claim the proponents of 9/1 + 60 or 9/1 to 7/31 with flex for August to play with their grade are all greedy parents of older summer born kids who only want their kids to get some advantage. But in fact both approaches allow younger born summer kids to also be enrolled with their grade without having to convince a team/club to let them play up a grade, as could be the case with earlier strict cutoff dates. The goal is to facilitate all kids to play with their grade absent the extreme outliers you can get with a grad year approach. This is such a logical way to proceed and it’s baffling if league leadership doesn’t see it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:They already know what they are going to do at this point about age spans. They haven’t gotten this far and don’t know. So no amount of emailing them to allow this or that is going to matter.

I don't think they do. The US Youth Soccer guy hinted that they would be creating different rules to accommodate different districts/states. This will never work because districts change start dates all the time. Also it would be impossible to keep track of all the different states and school start dates to maintain up to date rules.

That is for local league. For national league, it can only have one cutoff date with no waivers. And ECNL CEO already hinted 9/1. I will bet my money on it.

We'll see, 9/1 + 60 gets rid of ALL complaints from parents + trapped players.

9/1 by itself still has trapped players depending on the state/district. Which means they'll still have a group of complaining parents.

ECNL will not give a f**k on those parents whose kids are marginal and can only play down to join NL. They will not bring value to ECNL.

Just reread your comment and I don't think you understand how 9/1 + 60 would work.

With 9/1 + 60 players born from 9/1 to 9/1 that year only need to show a birth cert to register to play.

If you were born 60 days before 9/1 you can play with your grade by providing a birth cert and proof of school enrollment at X grade.

All others that are a year older in school but are born 60 days before 9/1 won't be able to play down. (Because they're not in the correct grade in school)

Make sense? Nobody is playing down + all trapped players are addressed.

Scouts would only see one grade playing on the field during showcases.

They will go to a hard cutoff date if 9/1. If I remember right during the last podcast (I know, I know) they brought up percentage of players effected by saying 9/1 will be effect the least amount of players as opposed to 8/1. I would say they have thought it through and are going with a hard date. They don’t want to mess with +30-60 when they can just set the date.

The reason why I know 9/1 + 60 will happen is because it addresses all kinds of issues + makes things easier for clubs to implement SY.

Go listen to it then
They are just trying to minimize the trap player and never said eliminate the trap player. If you do the + 60 might as well go to a 14 month span….they are not going to do that.

You don't want to do this because it allows players to play down a grade in school.

9/1 + 60 doesn't allow (aug july) players who started school early and are a grade ahead to play down with the grade they should be in school.

+ 60 picks up kids born 60 days BEFORE the cutofff (9/1), right? Doesn’t that address kids who started school late (or have a school cutoff (8/1) that is earlier than the soccer cutoff (9/1))? I’m asking about players who are born AFTER the soccer cutoff. 9/1 cutoff for school and soccer says a Sept 2012 kid is u12 and 6th grade (the oldest in her class). But if that kid started school one year early, she’s actually in 7th grade (the youngest in her class) and her teammates are in 6th grade. +60 doesn’t address that, right?

Correct, 9/1 + 60 does not allow kids that are older (traditionally) than their grade in school to "play down" with their grade in school.

Put more bluntly if your kid is a "hold back / regrade" 9/1 + 60 won't let them play with the grade they're in at school.They"ll have to play with the grade up.

So the 9/1 + 60 is basically what USA Lacrosse has done, but limits it to two months as oppose to 3? You have a 9/1 soccer cutoff, but if you’re within 60 days of the cutoff (July and August months) then you can play with your graduation year. So if you’re born Aug 3, 2012, but a 2031 grad as opposed to a 2030 grad since you started late, then you’d play with your grad year since you’re within 60 days from the cutoff, right?

Kind of..

It also makes sure players who are of age but not in the correct grade can't play down.

Different opinion. 9/1+60 is stupid.

Everyone except you knows that you're embarrassing yourself.

Or it’s stupid and makes things more complicated than they need to be.

Anytime you give one subset an option you don’t give the others, it just screws up the system and lends itself to abuse.

Would 1/1+60 make sense? No.

9/1+60 only makes marginal sense because SY isn’t a clean date. But it’s not workable nationally, and it’s not workable competitively.

But it takes a stupid issue, age cutoffs, and just ups the complication, which makes it dumber than the underlying issue.

Welcome to a gigantic duh...

As I've said before I prefer BY because it's easier for clubs to implement + makes more sense.

I've only included 9/1 + 60 detail because it's the only way to implement SY + make it work for everyone involved.

Having a mid July kid and suggesting SY+60 is saying I want to be at the front of the line. Preferring BY over SY in this instance is saying I prefer to be in the middle of the line rather than the back. Just generic selfishness cloaked in pretend empathy.

Believe it or not but my kid is a trapped player and I still prefer BY. From a personal perspective this allows them to "play up" at a more challenging level.

But I would consider switching to a SY+60 league. SY+60 isn't that bad if it completely addressesed all trapped players. It would be nice to go to a tournament and everyone on the field was one grade.

It would be annoying switching to SY to address trapped players and there were still trapped players.

I think you give too much credit to "grades". They can vary especially by district and even more so, between public and private. That's why soccer really should stick to AGE.

SY+60 has an age window and grade requirements.

On paper, perhaps -- although it's not really been documented as an option in this youth soccer discussion anywhere, except as examples from other sports -- where they STRUGGLE with implementation/cheating.

SY+60 eligibility window is 14 months

Only players born between 7/1 and 9/1 would need to provide an additional proof of grade enrolled in school.

You might get a couple of players lieing about their grade in school. But they would still need to be in the 14 month eligibility window. Which means even though they're cheating they're also the same age as other players from different states. Annoying but not the end of the world + would be easy to address. Definately not GY though.

As mentioned several pages back, SY +60 rewards parents that held their July kid back or enrolled them late in states where the school cutoff is in August or September (almost all states). SY +60 guy doesn’t realize/understand/get that part.

What’s your definition of an award in this scenario? Bring the “oldest”? There will always be an oldest and youngest no matter what. The goal is to align as many kids within their school year that works across an entire country.

This argument for grade year is great and all but in this is a zero sum game, more people are against grade year than for it and leagues are against going grade year.

Nobody is argueing for GY.

They are argueing for SY+60 which completely bans the players GY allows.

That's what other sports have tried/trying and apparently failing at because it open's Pandora's box.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:They already know what they are going to do at this point about age spans. They haven’t gotten this far and don’t know. So no amount of emailing them to allow this or that is going to matter.

I don't think they do. The US Youth Soccer guy hinted that they would be creating different rules to accommodate different districts/states. This will never work because districts change start dates all the time. Also it would be impossible to keep track of all the different states and school start dates to maintain up to date rules.

That is for local league. For national league, it can only have one cutoff date with no waivers. And ECNL CEO already hinted 9/1. I will bet my money on it.

We'll see, 9/1 + 60 gets rid of ALL complaints from parents + trapped players.

9/1 by itself still has trapped players depending on the state/district. Which means they'll still have a group of complaining parents.

ECNL will not give a f**k on those parents whose kids are marginal and can only play down to join NL. They will not bring value to ECNL.

Just reread your comment and I don't think you understand how 9/1 + 60 would work.

With 9/1 + 60 players born from 9/1 to 9/1 that year only need to show a birth cert to register to play.

If you were born 60 days before 9/1 you can play with your grade by providing a birth cert and proof of school enrollment at X grade.

All others that are a year older in school but are born 60 days before 9/1 won't be able to play down. (Because they're not in the correct grade in school)

Make sense? Nobody is playing down + all trapped players are addressed.

Scouts would only see one grade playing on the field during showcases.

They will go to a hard cutoff date if 9/1. If I remember right during the last podcast (I know, I know) they brought up percentage of players effected by saying 9/1 will be effect the least amount of players as opposed to 8/1. I would say they have thought it through and are going with a hard date. They don’t want to mess with +30-60 when they can just set the date.

The reason why I know 9/1 + 60 will happen is because it addresses all kinds of issues + makes things easier for clubs to implement SY.

Go listen to it then
They are just trying to minimize the trap player and never said eliminate the trap player. If you do the + 60 might as well go to a 14 month span….they are not going to do that.

You don't want to do this because it allows players to play down a grade in school.

9/1 + 60 doesn't allow (aug july) players who started school early and are a grade ahead to play down with the grade they should be in school.

+ 60 picks up kids born 60 days BEFORE the cutofff (9/1), right? Doesn’t that address kids who started school late (or have a school cutoff (8/1) that is earlier than the soccer cutoff (9/1))? I’m asking about players who are born AFTER the soccer cutoff. 9/1 cutoff for school and soccer says a Sept 2012 kid is u12 and 6th grade (the oldest in her class). But if that kid started school one year early, she’s actually in 7th grade (the youngest in her class) and her teammates are in 6th grade. +60 doesn’t address that, right?

Correct, 9/1 + 60 does not allow kids that are older (traditionally) than their grade in school to "play down" with their grade in school.

Put more bluntly if your kid is a "hold back / regrade" 9/1 + 60 won't let them play with the grade they're in at school.They"ll have to play with the grade up.

So the 9/1 + 60 is basically what USA Lacrosse has done, but limits it to two months as oppose to 3? You have a 9/1 soccer cutoff, but if you’re within 60 days of the cutoff (July and August months) then you can play with your graduation year. So if you’re born Aug 3, 2012, but a 2031 grad as opposed to a 2030 grad since you started late, then you’d play with your grad year since you’re within 60 days from the cutoff, right?

Kind of..

It also makes sure players who are of age but not in the correct grade can't play down.

Different opinion. 9/1+60 is stupid.

Everyone except you knows that you're embarrassing yourself.

Or it’s stupid and makes things more complicated than they need to be.

Anytime you give one subset an option you don’t give the others, it just screws up the system and lends itself to abuse.

Would 1/1+60 make sense? No.

9/1+60 only makes marginal sense because SY isn’t a clean date. But it’s not workable nationally, and it’s not workable competitively.

But it takes a stupid issue, age cutoffs, and just ups the complication, which makes it dumber than the underlying issue.

Welcome to a gigantic duh...

As I've said before I prefer BY because it's easier for clubs to implement + makes more sense.

I've only included 9/1 + 60 detail because it's the only way to implement SY + make it work for everyone involved.

Having a mid July kid and suggesting SY+60 is saying I want to be at the front of the line. Preferring BY over SY in this instance is saying I prefer to be in the middle of the line rather than the back. Just generic selfishness cloaked in pretend empathy.

Believe it or not but my kid is a trapped player and I still prefer BY. From a personal perspective this allows them to "play up" at a more challenging level.

But I would consider switching to a SY+60 league. SY+60 isn't that bad if it completely addressesed all trapped players. It would be nice to go to a tournament and everyone on the field was one grade.

It would be annoying switching to SY to address trapped players and there were still trapped players.

I think you give too much credit to "grades". They can vary especially by district and even more so, between public and private. That's why soccer really should stick to AGE.

SY+60 has an age window and grade requirements.

On paper, perhaps -- although it's not really been documented as an option in this youth soccer discussion anywhere, except as examples from other sports -- where they STRUGGLE with implementation/cheating.

SY+60 eligibility window is 14 months

Only players born between 7/1 and 9/1 would need to provide an additional proof of grade enrolled in school.

You might get a couple of players lieing about their grade in school. But they would still need to be in the 14 month eligibility window. Which means even though they're cheating they're also the same age as other players from different states. Annoying but not the end of the world + would be easy to address. Definately not GY though.

As mentioned several pages back, SY +60 rewards parents that held their July kid back or enrolled them late in states where the school cutoff is in August or September (almost all states). SY +60 guy doesn’t realize/understand/get that part.

What’s your definition of an award in this scenario? Bring the “oldest”? There will always be an oldest and youngest no matter what. The goal is to align as many kids within their school year that works across an entire country.

This argument for grade year is great and all but in this is a zero sum game, more people are against grade year than for it and leagues are against going grade year.

But it is not a grade year in the sense that anyone, regardless of their actual age, can still play on a grade year as long as they are in a certain grade. There are still guardrails to prevent Johnny, the 14 year old 6th grader, from playing with 6th graders.

[Anonymous]

Hitchhiker:
You heard of this thing, the SY +60?

Ted:
Yeah, sure, SY +60. Yeah, the July player scheme.

Hitchhiker:
Yeah, this is going to blow that right out of the water. Listen to this: SY +61.

Ted:
Right. Yes. OK, alright. I see where you're going.

Hitchhiker:
Think about it. You walk into an evaluation, you see SY +60 sittin' there, there's SY +61 right beside it. Which one are you gonna pick, man?

Ted:
I would go for the SY +61.

Hitchhiker:
Bingo, man, bingo. SY +61. And we guarantee just as good a workout as the SY +60 folk.

Ted:
You guarantee it? That's - how do you do that?

Hitchhiker:
If you're not happy with the first 60 days, we're gonna send you the extra day free. You see? That's it. That's our motto. That's where we're comin' from. That's from "A" to "B".

Ted:
That's right. That's - that's good. That's good. Unless, of course, somebody comes up with SY +62. Then you're in trouble, huh?

Hitchhiker:
No! No, no, not SY +62! I said SY +61. Nobody's comin' up with SY +62. Who works out in SY +62 minutes? You won't even get your heart goin, not even a mouse on a wheel.

Ted:
That - good point.

Hitchhiker:
SY +61 the key number here. Think about it. SY +61 doors. SY +61, man, that's the number. SY +61 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.

Ted:
Why?

Hitchhiker:
'Cause you're f***in' fired!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:They already know what they are going to do at this point about age spans. They haven’t gotten this far and don’t know. So no amount of emailing them to allow this or that is going to matter.

I don't think they do. The US Youth Soccer guy hinted that they would be creating different rules to accommodate different districts/states. This will never work because districts change start dates all the time. Also it would be impossible to keep track of all the different states and school start dates to maintain up to date rules.

That is for local league. For national league, it can only have one cutoff date with no waivers. And ECNL CEO already hinted 9/1. I will bet my money on it.

We'll see, 9/1 + 60 gets rid of ALL complaints from parents + trapped players.

9/1 by itself still has trapped players depending on the state/district. Which means they'll still have a group of complaining parents.

ECNL will not give a f**k on those parents whose kids are marginal and can only play down to join NL. They will not bring value to ECNL.

Just reread your comment and I don't think you understand how 9/1 + 60 would work.

With 9/1 + 60 players born from 9/1 to 9/1 that year only need to show a birth cert to register to play.

If you were born 60 days before 9/1 you can play with your grade by providing a birth cert and proof of school enrollment at X grade.

All others that are a year older in school but are born 60 days before 9/1 won't be able to play down. (Because they're not in the correct grade in school)

Make sense? Nobody is playing down + all trapped players are addressed.

Scouts would only see one grade playing on the field during showcases.

They will go to a hard cutoff date if 9/1. If I remember right during the last podcast (I know, I know) they brought up percentage of players effected by saying 9/1 will be effect the least amount of players as opposed to 8/1. I would say they have thought it through and are going with a hard date. They don’t want to mess with +30-60 when they can just set the date.

The reason why I know 9/1 + 60 will happen is because it addresses all kinds of issues + makes things easier for clubs to implement SY.

Go listen to it then
They are just trying to minimize the trap player and never said eliminate the trap player. If you do the + 60 might as well go to a 14 month span….they are not going to do that.

You don't want to do this because it allows players to play down a grade in school.

9/1 + 60 doesn't allow (aug july) players who started school early and are a grade ahead to play down with the grade they should be in school.

+ 60 picks up kids born 60 days BEFORE the cutofff (9/1), right? Doesn’t that address kids who started school late (or have a school cutoff (8/1) that is earlier than the soccer cutoff (9/1))? I’m asking about players who are born AFTER the soccer cutoff. 9/1 cutoff for school and soccer says a Sept 2012 kid is u12 and 6th grade (the oldest in her class). But if that kid started school one year early, she’s actually in 7th grade (the youngest in her class) and her teammates are in 6th grade. +60 doesn’t address that, right?

Correct, 9/1 + 60 does not allow kids that are older (traditionally) than their grade in school to "play down" with their grade in school.

Put more bluntly if your kid is a "hold back / regrade" 9/1 + 60 won't let them play with the grade they're in at school.They"ll have to play with the grade up.

So the 9/1 + 60 is basically what USA Lacrosse has done, but limits it to two months as oppose to 3? You have a 9/1 soccer cutoff, but if you’re within 60 days of the cutoff (July and August months) then you can play with your graduation year. So if you’re born Aug 3, 2012, but a 2031 grad as opposed to a 2030 grad since you started late, then you’d play with your grad year since you’re within 60 days from the cutoff, right?

Kind of..

It also makes sure players who are of age but not in the correct grade can't play down.

Different opinion. 9/1+60 is stupid.

Everyone except you knows that you're embarrassing yourself.

Or it’s stupid and makes things more complicated than they need to be.

Anytime you give one subset an option you don’t give the others, it just screws up the system and lends itself to abuse.

Would 1/1+60 make sense? No.

9/1+60 only makes marginal sense because SY isn’t a clean date. But it’s not workable nationally, and it’s not workable competitively.

But it takes a stupid issue, age cutoffs, and just ups the complication, which makes it dumber than the underlying issue.

Welcome to a gigantic duh...

As I've said before I prefer BY because it's easier for clubs to implement + makes more sense.

I've only included 9/1 + 60 detail because it's the only way to implement SY + make it work for everyone involved.

Having a mid July kid and suggesting SY+60 is saying I want to be at the front of the line. Preferring BY over SY in this instance is saying I prefer to be in the middle of the line rather than the back. Just generic selfishness cloaked in pretend empathy.

Believe it or not but my kid is a trapped player and I still prefer BY. From a personal perspective this allows them to "play up" at a more challenging level.

But I would consider switching to a SY+60 league. SY+60 isn't that bad if it completely addressesed all trapped players. It would be nice to go to a tournament and everyone on the field was one grade.

It would be annoying switching to SY to address trapped players and there were still trapped players.

I think you give too much credit to "grades". They can vary especially by district and even more so, between public and private. That's why soccer really should stick to AGE.

SY+60 has an age window and grade requirements.

On paper, perhaps -- although it's not really been documented as an option in this youth soccer discussion anywhere, except as examples from other sports -- where they STRUGGLE with implementation/cheating.

SY+60 eligibility window is 14 months

Only players born between 7/1 and 9/1 would need to provide an additional proof of grade enrolled in school.

You might get a couple of players lieing about their grade in school. But they would still need to be in the 14 month eligibility window. Which means even though they're cheating they're also the same age as other players from different states. Annoying but not the end of the world + would be easy to address. Definately not GY though.

As mentioned several pages back, SY +60 rewards parents that held their July kid back or enrolled them late in states where the school cutoff is in August or September (almost all states). SY +60 guy doesn’t realize/understand/get that part.

I understand completely and there's states who's cutoff is in July.

I'm happy trading 2 months of potential RAE for completely eliminating all trapped players.

It's not that big of a deal, 2 months will not change anything. The only time 2 months would come into play is when different states with different cutoff dates would play each other. And again it's 2 months!

Serious merit to 7/1 to 6/30. If misaligned, play up with your grade if you want. But I don't think it is being considered.

Playing up isn't the issue.

The issue is making all school districts with different start dates across America work together. The big trick is you don't want to enable players a grade older to play down. This is why if you choose a single cutoff date there will either be players that can play down or trapped players that are being forced to play up. With a single cutoff date you get a mix of one or or the other with SY.

If you choose SY+60 it doesn't allow playing down but does allow up to 2 months of players born before 9/1. The net effect is that trapped players are eliminated and grade up players are not playing down.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They already know what they are going to do at this point about age spans. They haven’t gotten this far and don’t know. So no amount of emailing them to allow this or that is going to matter.

I don't think they do. The US Youth Soccer guy hinted that they would be creating different rules to accommodate different districts/states. This will never work because districts change start dates all the time. Also it would be impossible to keep track of all the different states and school start dates to maintain up to date rules.

That is for local league. For national league, it can only have one cutoff date with no waivers. And ECNL CEO already hinted 9/1. I will bet my money on it.

We'll see, 9/1 + 60 gets rid of ALL complaints from parents + trapped players.

9/1 by itself still has trapped players depending on the state/district. Which means they'll still have a group of complaining parents.

ECNL will not give a f**k on those parents whose kids are marginal and can only play down to join NL. They will not bring value to ECNL.

Just reread your comment and I don't think you understand how 9/1 + 60 would work.

With 9/1 + 60 players born from 9/1 to 9/1 that year only need to show a birth cert to register to play.

If you were born 60 days before 9/1 you can play with your grade by providing a birth cert and proof of school enrollment at X grade.

All others that are a year older in school but are born 60 days before 9/1 won't be able to play down. (Because they're not in the correct grade in school)

Make sense? Nobody is playing down + all trapped players are addressed.

Scouts would only see one grade playing on the field during showcases.

They will go to a hard cutoff date if 9/1. If I remember right during the last podcast (I know, I know) they brought up percentage of players effected by saying 9/1 will be effect the least amount of players as opposed to 8/1. I would say they have thought it through and are going with a hard date. They don’t want to mess with +30-60 when they can just set the date.

The reason why I know 9/1 + 60 will happen is because it addresses all kinds of issues + makes things easier for clubs to implement SY.

Go listen to it then
They are just trying to minimize the trap player and never said eliminate the trap player. If you do the + 60 might as well go to a 14 month span….they are not going to do that.

You don't want to do this because it allows players to play down a grade in school.

9/1 + 60 doesn't allow (aug july) players who started school early and are a grade ahead to play down with the grade they should be in school.

+ 60 picks up kids born 60 days BEFORE the cutofff (9/1), right? Doesn’t that address kids who started school late (or have a school cutoff (8/1) that is earlier than the soccer cutoff (9/1))? I’m asking about players who are born AFTER the soccer cutoff. 9/1 cutoff for school and soccer says a Sept 2012 kid is u12 and 6th grade (the oldest in her class). But if that kid started school one year early, she’s actually in 7th grade (the youngest in her class) and her teammates are in 6th grade. +60 doesn’t address that, right?

Correct, 9/1 + 60 does not allow kids that are older (traditionally) than their grade in school to "play down" with their grade in school.

Put more bluntly if your kid is a "hold back / regrade" 9/1 + 60 won't let them play with the grade they're in at school.They"ll have to play with the grade up.

So the 9/1 + 60 is basically what USA Lacrosse has done, but limits it to two months as oppose to 3? You have a 9/1 soccer cutoff, but if you’re within 60 days of the cutoff (July and August months) then you can play with your graduation year. So if you’re born Aug 3, 2012, but a 2031 grad as opposed to a 2030 grad since you started late, then you’d play with your grad year since you’re within 60 days from the cutoff, right?

Kind of..

It also makes sure players who are of age but not in the correct grade can't play down.

Different opinion. 9/1+60 is stupid.

Everyone except you knows that you're embarrassing yourself.

Or it’s stupid and makes things more complicated than they need to be.

Anytime you give one subset an option you don’t give the others, it just screws up the system and lends itself to abuse.

Would 1/1+60 make sense? No.

9/1+60 only makes marginal sense because SY isn’t a clean date. But it’s not workable nationally, and it’s not workable competitively.

But it takes a stupid issue, age cutoffs, and just ups the complication, which makes it dumber than the underlying issue.

Welcome to a gigantic duh...

As I've said before I prefer BY because it's easier for clubs to implement + makes more sense.

I've only included 9/1 + 60 detail because it's the only way to implement SY + make it work for everyone involved.

Having a mid July kid and suggesting SY+60 is saying I want to be at the front of the line. Preferring BY over SY in this instance is saying I prefer to be in the middle of the line rather than the back. Just generic selfishness cloaked in pretend empathy.

Believe it or not but my kid is a trapped player and I still prefer BY. From a personal perspective this allows them to "play up" at a more challenging level.

But I would consider switching to a SY+60 league. SY+60 isn't that bad if it completely addressesed all trapped players. It would be nice to go to a tournament and everyone on the field was one grade.

It would be annoying switching to SY to address trapped players and there were still trapped players.

I think you give too much credit to "grades". They can vary especially by district and even more so, between public and private. That's why soccer really should stick to AGE.

SY+60 has an age window and grade requirements.

On paper, perhaps -- although it's not really been documented as an option in this youth soccer discussion anywhere, except as examples from other sports -- where they STRUGGLE with implementation/cheating.

SY+60 eligibility window is 14 months

Only players born between 7/1 and 9/1 would need to provide an additional proof of grade enrolled in school.

You might get a couple of players lieing about their grade in school. But they would still need to be in the 14 month eligibility window. Which means even though they're cheating they're also the same age as other players from different states. Annoying but not the end of the world + would be easy to address. Definately not GY though.

As mentioned several pages back, SY +60 rewards parents that held their July kid back or enrolled them late in states where the school cutoff is in August or September (almost all states). SY +60 guy doesn’t realize/understand/get that part.

What’s your definition of an award in this scenario? Bring the “oldest”? There will always be an oldest and youngest no matter what. The goal is to align as many kids within their school year that works across an entire country.

This argument for grade year is great and all but in this is a zero sum game, more people are against grade year than for it and leagues are against going grade year.

Nobody is argueing for GY.

They are argueing for SY+60 which completely bans the players GY allows.

That's what other sports have tried/trying and apparently failing at because it open's Pandora's box.

Can you give an actual example?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They already know what they are going to do at this point about age spans. They haven’t gotten this far and don’t know. So no amount of emailing them to allow this or that is going to matter.

I don't think they do. The US Youth Soccer guy hinted that they would be creating different rules to accommodate different districts/states. This will never work because districts change start dates all the time. Also it would be impossible to keep track of all the different states and school start dates to maintain up to date rules.

That is for local league. For national league, it can only have one cutoff date with no waivers. And ECNL CEO already hinted 9/1. I will bet my money on it.

We'll see, 9/1 + 60 gets rid of ALL complaints from parents + trapped players.

9/1 by itself still has trapped players depending on the state/district. Which means they'll still have a group of complaining parents.

ECNL will not give a f**k on those parents whose kids are marginal and can only play down to join NL. They will not bring value to ECNL.

Just reread your comment and I don't think you understand how 9/1 + 60 would work.

With 9/1 + 60 players born from 9/1 to 9/1 that year only need to show a birth cert to register to play.

If you were born 60 days before 9/1 you can play with your grade by providing a birth cert and proof of school enrollment at X grade.

All others that are a year older in school but are born 60 days before 9/1 won't be able to play down. (Because they're not in the correct grade in school)

Make sense? Nobody is playing down + all trapped players are addressed.

Scouts would only see one grade playing on the field during showcases.

They will go to a hard cutoff date if 9/1. If I remember right during the last podcast (I know, I know) they brought up percentage of players effected by saying 9/1 will be effect the least amount of players as opposed to 8/1. I would say they have thought it through and are going with a hard date. They don’t want to mess with +30-60 when they can just set the date.

The reason why I know 9/1 + 60 will happen is because it addresses all kinds of issues + makes things easier for clubs to implement SY.

Go listen to it then
They are just trying to minimize the trap player and never said eliminate the trap player. If you do the + 60 might as well go to a 14 month span….they are not going to do that.

You don't want to do this because it allows players to play down a grade in school.

9/1 + 60 doesn't allow (aug july) players who started school early and are a grade ahead to play down with the grade they should be in school.

+ 60 picks up kids born 60 days BEFORE the cutofff (9/1), right? Doesn’t that address kids who started school late (or have a school cutoff (8/1) that is earlier than the soccer cutoff (9/1))? I’m asking about players who are born AFTER the soccer cutoff. 9/1 cutoff for school and soccer says a Sept 2012 kid is u12 and 6th grade (the oldest in her class). But if that kid started school one year early, she’s actually in 7th grade (the youngest in her class) and her teammates are in 6th grade. +60 doesn’t address that, right?

Correct, 9/1 + 60 does not allow kids that are older (traditionally) than their grade in school to "play down" with their grade in school.

Put more bluntly if your kid is a "hold back / regrade" 9/1 + 60 won't let them play with the grade they're in at school.They"ll have to play with the grade up.

So the 9/1 + 60 is basically what USA Lacrosse has done, but limits it to two months as oppose to 3? You have a 9/1 soccer cutoff, but if you’re within 60 days of the cutoff (July and August months) then you can play with your graduation year. So if you’re born Aug 3, 2012, but a 2031 grad as opposed to a 2030 grad since you started late, then you’d play with your grad year since you’re within 60 days from the cutoff, right?

Kind of..

It also makes sure players who are of age but not in the correct grade can't play down.

Different opinion. 9/1+60 is stupid.

Everyone except you knows that you're embarrassing yourself.

Or it’s stupid and makes things more complicated than they need to be.

Anytime you give one subset an option you don’t give the others, it just screws up the system and lends itself to abuse.

Would 1/1+60 make sense? No.

9/1+60 only makes marginal sense because SY isn’t a clean date. But it’s not workable nationally, and it’s not workable competitively.

But it takes a stupid issue, age cutoffs, and just ups the complication, which makes it dumber than the underlying issue.

Welcome to a gigantic duh...

As I've said before I prefer BY because it's easier for clubs to implement + makes more sense.

I've only included 9/1 + 60 detail because it's the only way to implement SY + make it work for everyone involved.

Having a mid July kid and suggesting SY+60 is saying I want to be at the front of the line. Preferring BY over SY in this instance is saying I prefer to be in the middle of the line rather than the back. Just generic selfishness cloaked in pretend empathy.

Believe it or not but my kid is a trapped player and I still prefer BY. From a personal perspective this allows them to "play up" at a more challenging level.

But I would consider switching to a SY+60 league. SY+60 isn't that bad if it completely addressesed all trapped players. It would be nice to go to a tournament and everyone on the field was one grade.

It would be annoying switching to SY to address trapped players and there were still trapped players.

I think you give too much credit to "grades". They can vary especially by district and even more so, between public and private. That's why soccer really should stick to AGE.

SY+60 has an age window and grade requirements.

On paper, perhaps -- although it's not really been documented as an option in this youth soccer discussion anywhere, except as examples from other sports -- where they STRUGGLE with implementation/cheating.

SY+60 eligibility window is 14 months

Only players born between 7/1 and 9/1 would need to provide an additional proof of grade enrolled in school.

You might get a couple of players lieing about their grade in school. But they would still need to be in the 14 month eligibility window. Which means even though they're cheating they're also the same age as other players from different states. Annoying but not the end of the world + would be easy to address. Definately not GY though.

As mentioned several pages back, SY +60 rewards parents that held their July kid back or enrolled them late in states where the school cutoff is in August or September (almost all states). SY +60 guy doesn’t realize/understand/get that part.

What’s your definition of an award in this scenario? Bring the “oldest”? There will always be an oldest and youngest no matter what. The goal is to align as many kids within their school year that works across an entire country.

This argument for grade year is great and all but in this is a zero sum game, more people are against grade year than for it and leagues are against going grade year.

Nobody is argueing for GY.

They are argueing for SY+60 which completely bans the players GY allows.

That's what other sports have tried/trying and apparently failing at because it open's Pandora's box.

Can you give an actual example?

https://www.reddit.com/r/lacrosse/comments/1dck4jr/why_can_youth_lacrosse_not_go_to_birth_years/?sort=top

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hitchhiker:
You heard of this thing, the SY +60?

Ted:
Yeah, sure, SY +60. Yeah, the July player scheme.

Hitchhiker:
Yeah, this is going to blow that right out of the water. Listen to this: SY +61.

Ted:
Right. Yes. OK, alright. I see where you're going.

Hitchhiker:
Think about it. You walk into an evaluation, you see SY +60 sittin' there, there's SY +61 right beside it. Which one are you gonna pick, man?

Ted:
I would go for the SY +61.

Hitchhiker:
Bingo, man, bingo. SY +61. And we guarantee just as good a workout as the SY +60 folk.

Ted:
You guarantee it? That's - how do you do that?

Hitchhiker:
If you're not happy with the first 60 days, we're gonna send you the extra day free. You see? That's it. That's our motto. That's where we're comin' from. That's from "A" to "B".

Ted:
That's right. That's - that's good. That's good. Unless, of course, somebody comes up with SY +62. Then you're in trouble, huh?

Hitchhiker:
No! No, no, not SY +62! I said SY +61. Nobody's comin' up with SY +62. Who works out in SY +62 minutes? You won't even get your heart goin, not even a mouse on a wheel.

Ted:
That - good point.

Hitchhiker:
SY +61 the key number here. Think about it. SY +61 doors. SY +61, man, that's the number. SY +61 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.

Ted:
Why?

Hitchhiker:
'Cause you're f***in' fired!

I already made the 6 min abs joke on the SY+6? guy, but you definitely sold it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:They already know what they are going to do at this point about age spans. They haven’t gotten this far and don’t know. So no amount of emailing them to allow this or that is going to matter.

I don't think they do. The US Youth Soccer guy hinted that they would be creating different rules to accommodate different districts/states. This will never work because districts change start dates all the time. Also it would be impossible to keep track of all the different states and school start dates to maintain up to date rules.

That is for local league. For national league, it can only have one cutoff date with no waivers. And ECNL CEO already hinted 9/1. I will bet my money on it.

We'll see, 9/1 + 60 gets rid of ALL complaints from parents + trapped players.

9/1 by itself still has trapped players depending on the state/district. Which means they'll still have a group of complaining parents.

ECNL will not give a f**k on those parents whose kids are marginal and can only play down to join NL. They will not bring value to ECNL.

Just reread your comment and I don't think you understand how 9/1 + 60 would work.

With 9/1 + 60 players born from 9/1 to 9/1 that year only need to show a birth cert to register to play.

If you were born 60 days before 9/1 you can play with your grade by providing a birth cert and proof of school enrollment at X grade.

All others that are a year older in school but are born 60 days before 9/1 won't be able to play down. (Because they're not in the correct grade in school)

Make sense? Nobody is playing down + all trapped players are addressed.

Scouts would only see one grade playing on the field during showcases.

They will go to a hard cutoff date if 9/1. If I remember right during the last podcast (I know, I know) they brought up percentage of players effected by saying 9/1 will be effect the least amount of players as opposed to 8/1. I would say they have thought it through and are going with a hard date. They don’t want to mess with +30-60 when they can just set the date.

The reason why I know 9/1 + 60 will happen is because it addresses all kinds of issues + makes things easier for clubs to implement SY.

Go listen to it then
They are just trying to minimize the trap player and never said eliminate the trap player. If you do the + 60 might as well go to a 14 month span….they are not going to do that.

You don't want to do this because it allows players to play down a grade in school.

9/1 + 60 doesn't allow (aug july) players who started school early and are a grade ahead to play down with the grade they should be in school.

+ 60 picks up kids born 60 days BEFORE the cutofff (9/1), right? Doesn’t that address kids who started school late (or have a school cutoff (8/1) that is earlier than the soccer cutoff (9/1))? I’m asking about players who are born AFTER the soccer cutoff. 9/1 cutoff for school and soccer says a Sept 2012 kid is u12 and 6th grade (the oldest in her class). But if that kid started school one year early, she’s actually in 7th grade (the youngest in her class) and her teammates are in 6th grade. +60 doesn’t address that, right?

Correct, 9/1 + 60 does not allow kids that are older (traditionally) than their grade in school to "play down" with their grade in school.

Put more bluntly if your kid is a "hold back / regrade" 9/1 + 60 won't let them play with the grade they're in at school.They"ll have to play with the grade up.

So the 9/1 + 60 is basically what USA Lacrosse has done, but limits it to two months as oppose to 3? You have a 9/1 soccer cutoff, but if you’re within 60 days of the cutoff (July and August months) then you can play with your graduation year. So if you’re born Aug 3, 2012, but a 2031 grad as opposed to a 2030 grad since you started late, then you’d play with your grad year since you’re within 60 days from the cutoff, right?

Kind of..

It also makes sure players who are of age but not in the correct grade can't play down.

Different opinion. 9/1+60 is stupid.

Everyone except you knows that you're embarrassing yourself.

Or it’s stupid and makes things more complicated than they need to be.

Anytime you give one subset an option you don’t give the others, it just screws up the system and lends itself to abuse.

Would 1/1+60 make sense? No.

9/1+60 only makes marginal sense because SY isn’t a clean date. But it’s not workable nationally, and it’s not workable competitively.

But it takes a stupid issue, age cutoffs, and just ups the complication, which makes it dumber than the underlying issue.

Welcome to a gigantic duh...

As I've said before I prefer BY because it's easier for clubs to implement + makes more sense.

I've only included 9/1 + 60 detail because it's the only way to implement SY + make it work for everyone involved.

Having a mid July kid and suggesting SY+60 is saying I want to be at the front of the line. Preferring BY over SY in this instance is saying I prefer to be in the middle of the line rather than the back. Just generic selfishness cloaked in pretend empathy.

Believe it or not but my kid is a trapped player and I still prefer BY. From a personal perspective this allows them to "play up" at a more challenging level.

But I would consider switching to a SY+60 league. SY+60 isn't that bad if it completely addressesed all trapped players. It would be nice to go to a tournament and everyone on the field was one grade.

It would be annoying switching to SY to address trapped players and there were still trapped players.

I think you give too much credit to "grades". They can vary especially by district and even more so, between public and private. That's why soccer really should stick to AGE.

SY+60 has an age window and grade requirements.

On paper, perhaps -- although it's not really been documented as an option in this youth soccer discussion anywhere, except as examples from other sports -- where they STRUGGLE with implementation/cheating.

SY+60 eligibility window is 14 months

Only players born between 7/1 and 9/1 would need to provide an additional proof of grade enrolled in school.

You might get a couple of players lieing about their grade in school. But they would still need to be in the 14 month eligibility window. Which means even though they're cheating they're also the same age as other players from different states. Annoying but not the end of the world + would be easy to address. Definately not GY though.

As mentioned several pages back, SY +60 rewards parents that held their July kid back or enrolled them late in states where the school cutoff is in August or September (almost all states). SY +60 guy doesn’t realize/understand/get that part.

I understand completely and there's states who's cutoff is in July.

I'm happy trading 2 months of potential RAE for completely eliminating all trapped players.

It's not that big of a deal, 2 months will not change anything. The only time 2 months would come into play is when different states with different cutoff dates would play each other. And again it's 2 months!

Serious merit to 7/1 to 6/30. If misaligned, play up with your grade if you want. But I don't think it is being considered.

Playing up isn't the issue.

The issue is making all school districts with different start dates across America work together. The big trick is you don't want to enable players a grade older to play down. This is why if you choose a single cutoff date there will either be players that can play down or trapped players that are being forced to play up. With a single cutoff date you get a mix of one or or the other with SY.

If you choose SY+60 it doesn't allow playing down but does allow up to 2 months of players born before 9/1. The net effect is that trapped players are eliminated and grade up players are not playing down.

Playing on grade is less convoluted if that's what you want.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:They already know what they are going to do at this point about age spans. They haven’t gotten this far and don’t know. So no amount of emailing them to allow this or that is going to matter.

I don't think they do. The US Youth Soccer guy hinted that they would be creating different rules to accommodate different districts/states. This will never work because districts change start dates all the time. Also it would be impossible to keep track of all the different states and school start dates to maintain up to date rules.

That is for local league. For national league, it can only have one cutoff date with no waivers. And ECNL CEO already hinted 9/1. I will bet my money on it.

We'll see, 9/1 + 60 gets rid of ALL complaints from parents + trapped players.

9/1 by itself still has trapped players depending on the state/district. Which means they'll still have a group of complaining parents.

ECNL will not give a f**k on those parents whose kids are marginal and can only play down to join NL. They will not bring value to ECNL.

Just reread your comment and I don't think you understand how 9/1 + 60 would work.

With 9/1 + 60 players born from 9/1 to 9/1 that year only need to show a birth cert to register to play.

If you were born 60 days before 9/1 you can play with your grade by providing a birth cert and proof of school enrollment at X grade.

All others that are a year older in school but are born 60 days before 9/1 won't be able to play down. (Because they're not in the correct grade in school)

Make sense? Nobody is playing down + all trapped players are addressed.

Scouts would only see one grade playing on the field during showcases.

They will go to a hard cutoff date if 9/1. If I remember right during the last podcast (I know, I know) they brought up percentage of players effected by saying 9/1 will be effect the least amount of players as opposed to 8/1. I would say they have thought it through and are going with a hard date. They don’t want to mess with +30-60 when they can just set the date.

The reason why I know 9/1 + 60 will happen is because it addresses all kinds of issues + makes things easier for clubs to implement SY.

Go listen to it then
They are just trying to minimize the trap player and never said eliminate the trap player. If you do the + 60 might as well go to a 14 month span….they are not going to do that.

You don't want to do this because it allows players to play down a grade in school.

9/1 + 60 doesn't allow (aug july) players who started school early and are a grade ahead to play down with the grade they should be in school.

+ 60 picks up kids born 60 days BEFORE the cutofff (9/1), right? Doesn’t that address kids who started school late (or have a school cutoff (8/1) that is earlier than the soccer cutoff (9/1))? I’m asking about players who are born AFTER the soccer cutoff. 9/1 cutoff for school and soccer says a Sept 2012 kid is u12 and 6th grade (the oldest in her class). But if that kid started school one year early, she’s actually in 7th grade (the youngest in her class) and her teammates are in 6th grade. +60 doesn’t address that, right?

Correct, 9/1 + 60 does not allow kids that are older (traditionally) than their grade in school to "play down" with their grade in school.

Put more bluntly if your kid is a "hold back / regrade" 9/1 + 60 won't let them play with the grade they're in at school.They"ll have to play with the grade up.

So the 9/1 + 60 is basically what USA Lacrosse has done, but limits it to two months as oppose to 3? You have a 9/1 soccer cutoff, but if you’re within 60 days of the cutoff (July and August months) then you can play with your graduation year. So if you’re born Aug 3, 2012, but a 2031 grad as opposed to a 2030 grad since you started late, then you’d play with your grad year since you’re within 60 days from the cutoff, right?

Kind of..

It also makes sure players who are of age but not in the correct grade can't play down.

Different opinion. 9/1+60 is stupid.

Everyone except you knows that you're embarrassing yourself.

Or it’s stupid and makes things more complicated than they need to be.

Anytime you give one subset an option you don’t give the others, it just screws up the system and lends itself to abuse.

Would 1/1+60 make sense? No.

9/1+60 only makes marginal sense because SY isn’t a clean date. But it’s not workable nationally, and it’s not workable competitively.

But it takes a stupid issue, age cutoffs, and just ups the complication, which makes it dumber than the underlying issue.

Welcome to a gigantic duh...

As I've said before I prefer BY because it's easier for clubs to implement + makes more sense.

I've only included 9/1 + 60 detail because it's the only way to implement SY + make it work for everyone involved.

Having a mid July kid and suggesting SY+60 is saying I want to be at the front of the line. Preferring BY over SY in this instance is saying I prefer to be in the middle of the line rather than the back. Just generic selfishness cloaked in pretend empathy.

Believe it or not but my kid is a trapped player and I still prefer BY. From a personal perspective this allows them to "play up" at a more challenging level.

But I would consider switching to a SY+60 league. SY+60 isn't that bad if it completely addressesed all trapped players. It would be nice to go to a tournament and everyone on the field was one grade.

It would be annoying switching to SY to address trapped players and there were still trapped players.

I think you give too much credit to "grades". They can vary especially by district and even more so, between public and private. That's why soccer really should stick to AGE.

SY+60 has an age window and grade requirements.

On paper, perhaps -- although it's not really been documented as an option in this youth soccer discussion anywhere, except as examples from other sports -- where they STRUGGLE with implementation/cheating.

SY+60 eligibility window is 14 months

Only players born between 7/1 and 9/1 would need to provide an additional proof of grade enrolled in school.

You might get a couple of players lieing about their grade in school. But they would still need to be in the 14 month eligibility window. Which means even though they're cheating they're also the same age as other players from different states. Annoying but not the end of the world + would be easy to address. Definately not GY though.

As mentioned several pages back, SY +60 rewards parents that held their July kid back or enrolled them late in states where the school cutoff is in August or September (almost all states). SY +60 guy doesn’t realize/understand/get that part.

I understand completely and there's states who's cutoff is in July.

I'm happy trading 2 months of potential RAE for completely eliminating all trapped players.

It's not that big of a deal, 2 months will not change anything. The only time 2 months would come into play is when different states with different cutoff dates would play each other. And again it's 2 months!

Serious merit to 7/1 to 6/30. If misaligned, play up with your grade if you want. But I don't think it is being considered.

Playing up isn't the issue.

The issue is making all school districts with different start dates across America work together. The big trick is you don't want to enable players a grade older to play down. This is why if you choose a single cutoff date there will either be players that can play down or trapped players that are being forced to play up. With a single cutoff date you get a mix of one or or the other with SY.

If you choose SY+60 it doesn't allow playing down but does allow up to 2 months of players born before 9/1. The net effect is that trapped players are eliminated and grade up players are not playing down.

Except that 2 months is a deal-breaker. I think, based on what's been released, is all the big leagues have conceded that going SY will improve the trapped player situation but not fix it completely because they don't want to mess at all with GY issues, especially at higher club levels where they want the 12-month window. I guess we'll all find out if that's true soon enough.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They already know what they are going to do at this point about age spans. They haven’t gotten this far and don’t know. So no amount of emailing them to allow this or that is going to matter.

I don't think they do. The US Youth Soccer guy hinted that they would be creating different rules to accommodate different districts/states. This will never work because districts change start dates all the time. Also it would be impossible to keep track of all the different states and school start dates to maintain up to date rules.

That is for local league. For national league, it can only have one cutoff date with no waivers. And ECNL CEO already hinted 9/1. I will bet my money on it.

We'll see, 9/1 + 60 gets rid of ALL complaints from parents + trapped players.

9/1 by itself still has trapped players depending on the state/district. Which means they'll still have a group of complaining parents.

ECNL will not give a f**k on those parents whose kids are marginal and can only play down to join NL. They will not bring value to ECNL.

Just reread your comment and I don't think you understand how 9/1 + 60 would work.

With 9/1 + 60 players born from 9/1 to 9/1 that year only need to show a birth cert to register to play.

If you were born 60 days before 9/1 you can play with your grade by providing a birth cert and proof of school enrollment at X grade.

All others that are a year older in school but are born 60 days before 9/1 won't be able to play down. (Because they're not in the correct grade in school)

Make sense? Nobody is playing down + all trapped players are addressed.

Scouts would only see one grade playing on the field during showcases.

They will go to a hard cutoff date if 9/1. If I remember right during the last podcast (I know, I know) they brought up percentage of players effected by saying 9/1 will be effect the least amount of players as opposed to 8/1. I would say they have thought it through and are going with a hard date. They don’t want to mess with +30-60 when they can just set the date.

The reason why I know 9/1 + 60 will happen is because it addresses all kinds of issues + makes things easier for clubs to implement SY.

Go listen to it then
They are just trying to minimize the trap player and never said eliminate the trap player. If you do the + 60 might as well go to a 14 month span….they are not going to do that.

You don't want to do this because it allows players to play down a grade in school.

9/1 + 60 doesn't allow (aug july) players who started school early and are a grade ahead to play down with the grade they should be in school.

+ 60 picks up kids born 60 days BEFORE the cutofff (9/1), right? Doesn’t that address kids who started school late (or have a school cutoff (8/1) that is earlier than the soccer cutoff (9/1))? I’m asking about players who are born AFTER the soccer cutoff. 9/1 cutoff for school and soccer says a Sept 2012 kid is u12 and 6th grade (the oldest in her class). But if that kid started school one year early, she’s actually in 7th grade (the youngest in her class) and her teammates are in 6th grade. +60 doesn’t address that, right?

Correct, 9/1 + 60 does not allow kids that are older (traditionally) than their grade in school to "play down" with their grade in school.

Put more bluntly if your kid is a "hold back / regrade" 9/1 + 60 won't let them play with the grade they're in at school.They"ll have to play with the grade up.

So the 9/1 + 60 is basically what USA Lacrosse has done, but limits it to two months as oppose to 3? You have a 9/1 soccer cutoff, but if you’re within 60 days of the cutoff (July and August months) then you can play with your graduation year. So if you’re born Aug 3, 2012, but a 2031 grad as opposed to a 2030 grad since you started late, then you’d play with your grad year since you’re within 60 days from the cutoff, right?

Kind of..

It also makes sure players who are of age but not in the correct grade can't play down.

Different opinion. 9/1+60 is stupid.

Everyone except you knows that you're embarrassing yourself.

Or it’s stupid and makes things more complicated than they need to be.

Anytime you give one subset an option you don’t give the others, it just screws up the system and lends itself to abuse.

Would 1/1+60 make sense? No.

9/1+60 only makes marginal sense because SY isn’t a clean date. But it’s not workable nationally, and it’s not workable competitively.

But it takes a stupid issue, age cutoffs, and just ups the complication, which makes it dumber than the underlying issue.

Welcome to a gigantic duh...

As I've said before I prefer BY because it's easier for clubs to implement + makes more sense.

I've only included 9/1 + 60 detail because it's the only way to implement SY + make it work for everyone involved.

Having a mid July kid and suggesting SY+60 is saying I want to be at the front of the line. Preferring BY over SY in this instance is saying I prefer to be in the middle of the line rather than the back. Just generic selfishness cloaked in pretend empathy.

Believe it or not but my kid is a trapped player and I still prefer BY. From a personal perspective this allows them to "play up" at a more challenging level.

But I would consider switching to a SY+60 league. SY+60 isn't that bad if it completely addressesed all trapped players. It would be nice to go to a tournament and everyone on the field was one grade.

It would be annoying switching to SY to address trapped players and there were still trapped players.

I think you give too much credit to "grades". They can vary especially by district and even more so, between public and private. That's why soccer really should stick to AGE.

SY+60 has an age window and grade requirements.

On paper, perhaps -- although it's not really been documented as an option in this youth soccer discussion anywhere, except as examples from other sports -- where they STRUGGLE with implementation/cheating.

SY+60 eligibility window is 14 months

Only players born between 7/1 and 9/1 would need to provide an additional proof of grade enrolled in school.

You might get a couple of players lieing about their grade in school. But they would still need to be in the 14 month eligibility window. Which means even though they're cheating they're also the same age as other players from different states. Annoying but not the end of the world + would be easy to address. Definately not GY though.

As mentioned several pages back, SY +60 rewards parents that held their July kid back or enrolled them late in states where the school cutoff is in August or September (almost all states). SY +60 guy doesn’t realize/understand/get that part.

What’s your definition of an award in this scenario? Bring the “oldest”? There will always be an oldest and youngest no matter what. The goal is to align as many kids within their school year that works across an entire country.

This argument for grade year is great and all but in this is a zero sum game, more people are against grade year than for it and leagues are against going grade year.

Nobody is argueing for GY.

They are argueing for SY+60 which completely bans the players GY allows.

That's what other sports have tried/trying and apparently failing at because it open's Pandora's box.

Can you give an actual example?

https://www.reddit.com/r/lacrosse/comments/1dck4jr/why_can_youth_lacrosse_not_go_to_birth_years/?sort=top

And Lacrosse made a change to fix that, which is very similar to this SY 60+ thing (I didn’t start that).