Prepping/Scamming the Cogat

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the folly of the school system for using a single test easily mimicked by learned parents and students (in their day to day "test prep" interaction with their children) as a major determinant for AAP admission. No parent will stop reading and playing fun mental games with their children for the sake of Carol of AAP concern they may be cheating. Give me a break, lady.

This is not the sole basis of AAP. THERE IS THE NNAT, the GBRS and the other input. What has happen, practically, is because of the test prep industry, the CogAT has been down weighted compared to the GBRS and student performance. That has pissed of people whose kids that aced the tests, but then get rejected because of a low GBRS. That only happens because of the test prep industry. An average to below average kid who performs at the very advanced (130+ on the CogAT) level is either a) prepped, or b) a genius.

The county can not tell. They make there own decisions.

Frankly my personal opinion is the county should come out with a clear statement on prepping for the CogAT/FXAT and NNAT. Say the thinking in the most unambiguous way. Something like "Test Prep for the CogAT violates the spirit of the test"

What if a kid tests well on NNAT/CoGAT without prep but the GBRS and work performance is not exemplary. Don’t you think it is unfair to these kids? My DC is only in 1st grade and did very well on the NNAT (99 percentile). If it were up to her current teacher she would probably receive a low assessment for GBRS and for work performance. She’s bored out of her mind. I believe the teacher actually knows this but does not have the capability to provide anything additional for my DC. The teacher has her bring her own books to school and sends her to the literacy center to read for long stretches of time to keep her occupied.
I just hope the 2nd grade teacher sees her potential and judges her more accurately.

Why would it be unfair? GBRS and school work examples are independent of NNAT/CogAt, either prepped or not. What the teacher thinks about your child has nothing to do with prepping for the tests.

[Anonymous]

There is homework prep, school work prep, NNAT prep, GoCAT prep, SAT prep, teacher rec (polishing the apple) prep, test prep, game prep, tutor prep, parent prep, piano and violin prep, and a good night's sleep and hearty breakfast prep.

And some lone loser Is worried about "test prep"?

[Anonymous]

Violates the spirit of the test?

Geeesh, what utter rubbish?

Does high SES (tutors and expensive academic courses) violate the spirit of education and tests?

[Anonymous]

the issue is not prepping per se. It is prepping using a copy of the test, presumably with the right answers. It is like taking an IQ test when someone gave you the answers the day before. It does not make you smarter, but it will raise your measured score.

So, you can raise your score on the CogAT (maybe), but the raised score does not make you smarter, and does not make you more capable of doing AAP work. That is the issue.

The think is, in some countries, test prep is the standard operating positions....where there is one chance to excel, and if you "blow" the test you can not succeed. In the USA, one test never defines you. There are multiple second chances, whether it be taking a WISC for AAP appeal to multiple SAT's to open enrollment community colleges.

It does not matter where you start your education. It matters where you finish. In the USA, prepping for the CogAT will have minimal impact on your overall life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Violates the spirit of the test?

Geeesh, what utter rubbish?

Does high SES (tutors and expensive academic courses) violate the spirit of education and tests?

I don't know. I never needed a tutor. I figured it out on my own. I must be an under achiever.

[Anonymous]

So how many FCPS children have a cpoy of the GoCAT test with answer their back pockets before test day?

This is the epitome of paranoia.

[Anonymous]

18:09 has summed it up very nicely.

There are people from other countries who assume that every country is just like their old country. It is difficult for them to understand that things are different here, because the idea of one test deciding the rest of a young person's life is so ingrained in their thinking. They hear about this AAP program and think that it must be the golden ticket to a good life here. They think that AAP must be a "better" program and don't realize that it is just a different program for those who learn in a different way. Prepping to do well on the second grade test will not change the way a child learns, it will simply cause a false result on the test.

And then they get their kids into AAP and complain that it is not so great after all!

[Anonymous]

The country on top of the test prep charts is America - our country in case you were not aware.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:the issue is not prepping per se. It is prepping using a copy of the test, presumably with the right answers. It is like taking an IQ test when someone gave you the answers the day before. It does not make you smarter, but it will raise your measured score.

So, you can raise your score on the CogAT (maybe), but the raised score does not make you smarter, and does not make you more capable of doing AAP work. That is the issue.

The think is, in some countries, test prep is the standard operating positions....where there is one chance to excel, and if you "blow" the test you can not succeed. In the USA, one test never defines you. There are multiple second chances, whether it be taking a WISC for AAP appeal to multiple SAT's to open enrollment community colleges.

It does not matter where you start your education. It matters where you finish. In the USA, prepping for the CogAT will have minimal impact on your overall life.

Good points, so true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So how many FCPS children have a cpoy of the GoCAT test with answer their back pockets before test day?

This is the epitome of paranoia.

You have been posting GoCAT for pages. It's CogAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:18:09 has summed it up very nicely.

There are people from other countries who assume that every country is just like their old country. It is difficult for them to understand that things are different here, because the idea of one test deciding the rest of a young person's life is so ingrained in their thinking. They hear about this AAP program and think that it must be the golden ticket to a good life here. They think that AAP must be a "better" program and don't realize that it is just a different program for those who learn in a different way. Prepping to do well on the second grade test will not change the way a child learns, it will simply cause a false result on the test.

And then they get their kids into AAP and complain that it is not so great after all!

Do you have a child in AAP? It is just an accelerated academic program. It is not, as currently executed by Fairfax County, a program for kids who "learn in a different way." Maybe that's how it was in the past, but not currently. It basically is honors elementary. I think that's why so many people want their kids in AAP because they know their kids can handle it.

[Anonymous]

So it boils down to students from other countries?

Perhaps we shoul resurrect the paragraph summarizing the real truth and fear. Have you noticed the American students that dominate our graduate schools, honors classes, IB and AP programs, TJ, magnet schools, national prizes?

The NOVA nut thinks all these kids have the GoCAT test with answers in their back pockets. 18:06

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:the issue is not prepping per se. It is prepping using a copy of the test, presumably with the right answers. It is like taking an IQ test when someone gave you the answers the day before. It does not make you smarter, but it will raise your measured score.

So, you can raise your score on the CogAT (maybe), but the raised score does not make you smarter, and does not make you more capable of doing AAP work. That is the issue.

The think is, in some countries, test prep is the standard operating positions....where there is one chance to excel, and if you "blow" the test you can not succeed. In the USA, one test never defines you. There are multiple second chances, whether it be taking a WISC for AAP appeal to multiple SAT's to open enrollment community colleges.

It does not matter where you start your education. It matters where you finish. In the USA, prepping for the CogAT will have minimal impact on your overall life.

the same "form" of the test apparently was being used for prep - not a test with the exact same questions. Nobody had the correct answers ahead of time. Practicing the materials would presumably raise a kid's measured score - that's the whole point of prepping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The country on top of the test prep charts is America - our country in case you were not aware.

I find this very hard to believe. The entrance exams for high school in Korea and Japan are famous for requiring hours and hours of test prep - hence the term "entrance exam hell."

I'd like to see the "test prep charts" you referenced - if you have it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So it boils down to students from other countries?

Perhaps we shoul resurrect the paragraph summarizing the real truth and fear. Have you noticed the American students that dominate our graduate schools, honors classes, IB and AP programs, TJ, magnet schools, national prizes?

The NOVA nut thinks all these kids have the GoCAT test with answers in their back pockets. 18:06

CogAT, not GoCAT.