We need homes. A lot of homes. Not just affordable, but also middle-income homes.

[Anonymous]

1. what do you mean by middle income?

2. What do you mean by affordable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get why people think putting duplexes in is going to result in affordable homes. Do they think a lot that now holds a $1 million house will be torn down and replaced by two houses worth $500k? That’s not actually how the real estate market works. Why would someone tear down’a house for no financial gai n? Some will be made into duplexes and my guess is that each of those two new homes will be sold for about $1.5 -$2.5 million. (Please review DuPont circle condo projects in former SFHs in DuPont Circle) and other SFHs will be torn down and replaced by larger, fancier SFH that will sell for $2-3 million. It’s just a really dumb assumption.

Exactly. The YIMBYs just like deflecting blame from their developer heroes who could be building more housing but aren’t.

Speaking of YIMBYs, that's the status of the proposal to add substantial workforce housing on top of the Adas Israel parking lot at Porter Street in Cleveland Park. Rabbi Alexander as been a prominent proponent of building more affordable housing in Ward 3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don’t understand people who say there is no affordable housing in a city that is one top ten markets in the richest country in the world. Go get a job that pays more or commute like the rest of the 7 billion people on the planet. What makes you so special? Go big or go home. That’s life in the city.

For the record, people who used this post to castigate liberals. I'm a liberal. Very, very liberal. What I angers me, is the "smart growth" folks is their insistence that they get affordable housing in Ward 3. There are a lot of less expensive places to live in this city. But you want to live with the other rich white people. Ward 8. PG County, parts of MoCo, have less expensive housing. Buy a condo. DO you know how many families of four are living in a 650 square foot apartments in NYC with hour long commutes on a loud smelly trains? you all need to grow up.

It isn't that the smart growth advocates want the housing for themselves. Most of them live in million + homes. They want affordable housing for their communities because they believe in 1) more density supporting the local retail 2) economic and racial diversity and 3) environmental benefits of having more people live in a compact urban center rather than plowing up more fields for single family homes.

Are you opposed to those three things?

Of course rich people living in $1M homes don't want more SFHs. They don't care what everyone else is left with, especially the poors.

They want more diverse people in their neighborhood, which based on your response, or lack thereof, you are opposed to. And they are fine with people living in SFH, but it is unsustainable to have all of the acres of land just be SFH. So you are basically opposed to the three elements I posted. Fair enough.

These are just developer talking points to persuade DC to relax zoning for much more market-rate, dense development. Most people can see through this cynical spin. For example, the chair of Cleveland Park Smart Growth owns a business that was the national pollster for the Trump campaign while Trump was promising the save neighborhoods from affordable housing. And then he and other Smart Growth lobbyists pivot for other clients to push Smart Growth as encouraging affordable housing, racial diversity and environmental benefits? Such horse hooey!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don’t understand people who say there is no affordable housing in a city that is one top ten markets in the richest country in the world. Go get a job that pays more or commute like the rest of the 7 billion people on the planet. What makes you so special? Go big or go home. That’s life in the city.

For the record, people who used this post to castigate liberals. I'm a liberal. Very, very liberal. What I angers me, is the "smart growth" folks is their insistence that they get affordable housing in Ward 3. There are a lot of less expensive places to live in this city. But you want to live with the other rich white people. Ward 8. PG County, parts of MoCo, have less expensive housing. Buy a condo. DO you know how many families of four are living in a 650 square foot apartments in NYC with hour long commutes on a loud smelly trains? you all need to grow up.

It isn't that the smart growth advocates want the housing for themselves. Most of them live in million + homes. They want affordable housing for their communities because they believe in 1) more density supporting the local retail 2) economic and racial diversity and 3) environmental benefits of having more people live in a compact urban center rather than plowing up more fields for single family homes.

Are you opposed to those three things?

Of course rich people living in $1M homes don't want more SFHs. They don't care what everyone else is left with, especially the poors.

They want more diverse people in their neighborhood, which based on your response, or lack thereof, you are opposed to. And they are fine with people living in SFH, but it is unsustainable to have all of the acres of land just be SFH. So you are basically opposed to the three elements I posted. Fair enough.

These are just developer talking points to persuade DC to relax zoning for much more market-rate, dense development. Most people can see through this cynical spin. For example, the chair of Cleveland Park Smart Growth owns a business that was the national pollster for the Trump campaign while Trump was promising the save neighborhoods from affordable housing. And then he and other Smart Growth lobbyists pivot for other clients to push Smart Growth as encouraging affordable housing, racial diversity and environmental benefits? Such horse hooey!

You keep bringing up this Trump dude. Hint champ, nobody cares. It's polling. Nobody. Cares.

Thousands of new jobs are being created in DC. Market-rate development is needed. Sorry to burst your bubble. Take Econ 101.

[Anonymous]

What is market-rate development? It seems we have market-rate development now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don’t understand people who say there is no affordable housing in a city that is one top ten markets in the richest country in the world. Go get a job that pays more or commute like the rest of the 7 billion people on the planet. What makes you so special? Go big or go home. That’s life in the city.

For the record, people who used this post to castigate liberals. I'm a liberal. Very, very liberal. What I angers me, is the "smart growth" folks is their insistence that they get affordable housing in Ward 3. There are a lot of less expensive places to live in this city. But you want to live with the other rich white people. Ward 8. PG County, parts of MoCo, have less expensive housing. Buy a condo. DO you know how many families of four are living in a 650 square foot apartments in NYC with hour long commutes on a loud smelly trains? you all need to grow up.

It isn't that the smart growth advocates want the housing for themselves. Most of them live in million + homes. They want affordable housing for their communities because they believe in 1) more density supporting the local retail 2) economic and racial diversity and 3) environmental benefits of having more people live in a compact urban center rather than plowing up more fields for single family homes.

Are you opposed to those three things?

Of course rich people living in $1M homes don't want more SFHs. They don't care what everyone else is left with, especially the poors.

They want more diverse people in their neighborhood, which based on your response, or lack thereof, you are opposed to. And they are fine with people living in SFH, but it is unsustainable to have all of the acres of land just be SFH. So you are basically opposed to the three elements I posted. Fair enough.

These are just developer talking points to persuade DC to relax zoning for much more market-rate, dense development. Most people can see through this cynical spin. For example, the chair of Cleveland Park Smart Growth owns a business that was the national pollster for the Trump campaign while Trump was promising the save neighborhoods from affordable housing. And then he and other Smart Growth lobbyists pivot for other clients to push Smart Growth as encouraging affordable housing, racial diversity and environmental benefits? Such horse hooey!

You keep bringing up this Trump dude. Hint champ, nobody cares. It's polling. Nobody. Cares.

Thousands of new jobs are being created in DC. Market-rate development is needed. Sorry to burst your bubble. Take Econ 101.

So true what they say, that DC Smart Growth is Trumpy operatives making lobbying pitches in the language of woke progressivism, to push DC zoning deregulatory and obtain windfall profit opportunities for their private developer clients. Sleazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is market-rate development? It seems we have market-rate development now.

DC has lots of it. Even in Ward 3, which the development lobby claims has no new housing being built, there are currently 2000+ new market-rate units under construction (1500 across from Sidwell Friends School alone), and much more in the pipeline.

However, what the market seems to want in DC right now is single family homes, so now is hardly the time to re-zone SFH neighborhoods to high density.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is market-rate development? It seems we have market-rate development now.

DC has lots of it. Even in Ward 3, which the development lobby claims has no new housing being built, there are currently 2000+ new market-rate units under construction (1500 across from Sidwell Friends School alone), and much more in the pipeline.

However, what the market seems to want in DC right now is single family homes, so now is hardly the time to re-zone SFH neighborhoods to high density.

Agree. Density sucks and would just push all the wealthy families out of DC entirely. That tax base is vital to the city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is market-rate development? It seems we have market-rate development now.

DC has lots of it. Even in Ward 3, which the development lobby claims has no new housing being built, there are currently 2000+ new market-rate units under construction (1500 across from Sidwell Friends School alone), and much more in the pipeline.

However, what the market seems to want in DC right now is single family homes, so now is hardly the time to re-zone SFH neighborhoods to high density.

There isn't space for new SFH in DC proper.

[Anonymous]

For the record, people who used this post to castigate liberals. I'm a liberal. Very, very liberal. What I angers me, is the "smart growth" folks is their insistence that they get affordable housing in Ward 3. There are a lot of less expensive places to live in this city. But you want to live with the other rich white people. Ward 8. PG County, parts of MoCo, have less expensive housing. Buy a condo. DO you know how many families of four are living in a 650 square foot apartments in NYC with hour long commutes on a loud smelly trains? you all need to grow up.

It isn't that the smart growth advocates want the housing for themselves. Most of them live in million + homes. They want affordable housing for their communities because they believe in 1) more density supporting the local retail 2) economic and racial diversity and 3) environmental benefits of having more people live in a compact urban center rather than plowing up more fields for single family homes.

Are you opposed to those three things?


Of course rich people living in $1M homes don't want more SFHs. They don't care what everyone else is left with, especially the poors.


They want more diverse people in their neighborhood, which based on your response, or lack thereof, you are opposed to. And they are fine with people living in SFH, but it is unsustainable to have all of the acres of land just be SFH. So you are basically opposed to the three elements I posted. Fair enough.

These are just developer talking points to persuade DC to relax zoning for much more market-rate, dense development. Most people can see through this cynical spin. For example, the chair of Cleveland Park Smart Growth owns a business that was the national pollster for the Trump campaign while Trump was promising the save neighborhoods from affordable housing. And then he and other Smart Growth lobbyists pivot for other clients to push Smart Growth as encouraging affordable housing, racial diversity and environmental benefits? Such horse hooey!

You keep bringing up this Trump dude. Hint champ, nobody cares. It's polling. Nobody. Cares.

Thousands of new jobs are being created in DC. Market-rate development is needed. Sorry to burst your bubble. Take Econ 101.

Oh yes, the conservative "take econ 101" retort. Those of us who have lived here under several mayors have seen how it's actually played out as opposed to the theoretical academic concept. Whether it's individuals who are poorer being displaced around the Navy Yard to make room for $1million housing or the opportunity hoarding boom that is happening around H Street NE, generally speaking, only those who occupy the top 5% socio-economically can afford many of these new builds. As the PP pointed out the issue is that often the big development class only cares about making money or the issues is that some people just don't want to live with people who are BIPOC, human beings who experience poverty, or neighbors experiencing housing insecurity. As the PP mentioned, "Ward 8. PG County, parts of MoCo, have less expensive housing" or by a condo.

[Anonymous]

Take race off the table. That issue cuts both ways.

1. Rich people in SFH's don't want people of color moving into their neighborhoods..


2. The Upzoning crowd could have access to affordable housing but they don't want to neighborhoods with diverse populations.

Race is a charged accusation. I think folks should put it down for this debate and focus on the housing issue - which has legit points of view on both sides.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Take race off the table. That issue cuts both ways.

1. Rich people in SFH's don't want people of color moving into their neighborhoods..


2. The Upzoning crowd could have access to affordable housing but they don't want to neighborhoods with diverse populations.

Race is a charged accusation. I think folks should put it down for this debate and focus on the housing issue - which has legit points of view on both sides.

The chairman of “Cleveland Park Smart Growth” owns a business that message-tested for Donald Trump such campaign dog whistle gems as “I’m gonna’ save your neighborhoods from affordable housing.” The same operative now spins dense, market-rate mixed-use development (falsely) as providing more affordable housing in DC. The DC Smart Growth industry is shameless, cynical and morally bankrupt, and will say anything to sell the dog food that it is peddling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

For the record, people who used this post to castigate liberals. I'm a liberal. Very, very liberal. What I angers me, is the "smart growth" folks is their insistence that they get affordable housing in Ward 3. There are a lot of less expensive places to live in this city. But you want to live with the other rich white people. Ward 8. PG County, parts of MoCo, have less expensive housing. Buy a condo. DO you know how many families of four are living in a 650 square foot apartments in NYC with hour long commutes on a loud smelly trains? you all need to grow up.

It isn't that the smart growth advocates want the housing for themselves. Most of them live in million + homes. They want affordable housing for their communities because they believe in 1) more density supporting the local retail 2) economic and racial diversity and 3) environmental benefits of having more people live in a compact urban center rather than plowing up more fields for single family homes.

Are you opposed to those three things?


Of course rich people living in $1M homes don't want more SFHs. They don't care what everyone else is left with, especially the poors.


They want more diverse people in their neighborhood, which based on your response, or lack thereof, you are opposed to. And they are fine with people living in SFH, but it is unsustainable to have all of the acres of land just be SFH. So you are basically opposed to the three elements I posted. Fair enough.

These are just developer talking points to persuade DC to relax zoning for much more market-rate, dense development. Most people can see through this cynical spin. For example, the chair of Cleveland Park Smart Growth owns a business that was the national pollster for the Trump campaign while Trump was promising the save neighborhoods from affordable housing. And then he and other Smart Growth lobbyists pivot for other clients to push Smart Growth as encouraging affordable housing, racial diversity and environmental benefits? Such horse hooey!

You keep bringing up this Trump dude. Hint champ, nobody cares. It's polling. Nobody. Cares.

Thousands of new jobs are being created in DC. Market-rate development is needed. Sorry to burst your bubble. Take Econ 101.

Oh yes, the conservative "take econ 101" retort. Those of us who have lived here under several mayors have seen how it's actually played out as opposed to the theoretical academic concept. Whether it's individuals who are poorer being displaced around the Navy Yard to make room for $1million housing or the opportunity hoarding boom that is happening around H Street NE, generally speaking, only those who occupy the top 5% socio-economically can afford many of these new builds. As the PP pointed out the issue is that often the big development class only cares about making money or the issues is that some people just don't want to live with people who are BIPOC, human beings who experience poverty, or neighbors experiencing housing insecurity. As the PP mentioned, "Ward 8. PG County, parts of MoCo, have less expensive housing" or by a condo.


People live in the whitest places they can afford.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is market-rate development? It seems we have market-rate development now.

Market rate development means: anyone is free to build the housing they want on their residential property and neither zoning boards nor historical commissions nor abutters nor NIMBYs get a veto.

Free to build the housing you want if you own the land. That’s what we need.

(I am a homeowner and am not a developer. Also, socially shun that trumper. Unbelievable to me he has anyone in DC that will talk to him after working for Trump. Some people have crappy values and no morals.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

For the record, people who used this post to castigate liberals. I'm a liberal. Very, very liberal. What I angers me, is the "smart growth" folks is their insistence that they get affordable housing in Ward 3. There are a lot of less expensive places to live in this city. But you want to live with the other rich white people. Ward 8. PG County, parts of MoCo, have less expensive housing. Buy a condo. DO you know how many families of four are living in a 650 square foot apartments in NYC with hour long commutes on a loud smelly trains? you all need to grow up.

It isn't that the smart growth advocates want the housing for themselves. Most of them live in million + homes. They want affordable housing for their communities because they believe in 1) more density supporting the local retail 2) economic and racial diversity and 3) environmental benefits of having more people live in a compact urban center rather than plowing up more fields for single family homes.

Are you opposed to those three things?

The funny thing about Smart Growth advocates is that they abandon those three principals en masse as soon as a developer wants to plow up fields and cut down trees in Clarksburg or Dale City. Casey Anderson rails against the 270 expansion but he helped create the need for the 270 expansion when he approved all of that greenfield density, and he's been advocating for increasing density in Olney of all places.