Center Level IV school versus local level IV

[Anonymous]

I realize that center schools nor local level IV programs throughout FCPS are created equal.

But.....

If you have a student who'll be entering into Fairfax County in 3rd grade and going directly into a full-time Level IV AAP program, in general, would you lean toward going to the base school or the center school?

I'd love to hear the pros and cons of each option. Of the parents I've spoken with in my neighborhood, most chose to keep their kids at the base school because the kids didn't want to leave their friends. I'm looking for other evidence as to why one option might be more beneficial than the other, not "keep them with their friends."

My DD will be coming into FCPS from a private school, so I'm weighing the whole "I have some friends at this place already" a little bit less in this decision (FWIW, she has two neighborhood friends who go to our base school, as they play soccer together).

[Anonymous]

I think the centers tend to be more rigorous because they draw from kids from multiple different ES. They also offer more social opportunities as there are more kids (local IV programs often only have enough for 1 class of AAP kids that are with each other year after year). For a "new kid" coming in, it might be good to go to the center where all the kids are "new kids" to each other. Also a center usually has multiple AAP teachers in each grade who can share resources, collaborate etc.

On the downside, the days are often long for an AAP kid with a bus-ride and they are separated from the neighborhood kids.

[Anonymous]

My base doesn’t offer LLIV so I don’t have much to offer beyond that if you name schools you will get much better and relevant responses. Even if you only want to name the center at least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My base doesn’t offer LLIV so I don’t have much to offer beyond that if you name schools you will get much better and relevant responses. Even if you only want to name the center at least.

OP here. Happy to share. The LIV center school is Oak Hill ES. Our base school is Lees Corner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the centers tend to be more rigorous because they draw from kids from multiple different ES. They also offer more social opportunities as there are more kids (local IV programs often only have enough for 1 class of AAP kids that are with each other year after year). For a "new kid" coming in, it might be good to go to the center where all the kids are "new kids" to each other. Also a center usually has multiple AAP teachers in each grade who can share resources, collaborate etc.

On the downside, the days are often long for an AAP kid with a bus-ride and they are separated from the neighborhood kids.

OP here. That's a great point about there being more "new kids" at the center school. I also looked up the PTA websites of both schools and noticed that Oak Hill ES (our center school) offers more extracurriculars that are STEM-focused (which my DD really likes and participates in now in her current school).

[Anonymous]

This depends on so many things. And it is very dependent on the specific schools.

Is your base school in the same pyramid as your center school? (Will they be going to different high schools?)
Is your base school any good? Academic and community? Extracurriculars?
Is your center school any good? Academic and community? Extracurriculars?
Do you have other kids that may or may not want to go to a center?
Does your kid do well with big changes?

[Anonymous]

Sibling?
Do not split up siblings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sibling?
Do not split up siblings

She has a younger sibling, but the child won't be going to FCPS elementary school for another 4ish years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This depends on so many things. And it is very dependent on the specific schools.

Is your base school in the same pyramid as your center school? (Will they be going to different high schools?)
Is your base school any good? Academic and community? Extracurriculars?
Is your center school any good? Academic and community? Extracurriculars?
Do you have other kids that may or may not want to go to a center?
Does your kid do well with big changes?

Switching from private to public school is a big change no matter what....so regardless of what school we choose, it'll be a big change for her.

Yes, I have a younger child who won't be in FCPS for another couple of years, so that's not relevant right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This depends on so many things. And it is very dependent on the specific schools.

Is your base school in the same pyramid as your center school? (Will they be going to different high schools?)
Is your base school any good? Academic and community? Extracurriculars?
Is your center school any good? Academic and community? Extracurriculars?
Do you have other kids that may or may not want to go to a center?
Does your kid do well with big changes?

Switching from private to public school is a big change no matter what....so regardless of what school we choose, it'll be a big change for her.


Yes, I have a younger child who won't be in FCPS for another couple of years, so that's not relevant right now.

There may be a couple other kids coming from private in the center school -- it's not uncommon for kids to go private and then switch to public if they qualify for AAP. In my DDs center class there are 3/24 kids who came from private that I know of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the centers tend to be more rigorous because they draw from kids from multiple different ES. They also offer more social opportunities as there are more kids (local IV programs often only have enough for 1 class of AAP kids that are with each other year after year). For a "new kid" coming in, it might be good to go to the center where all the kids are "new kids" to each other. Also a center usually has multiple AAP teachers in each grade who can share resources, collaborate etc.

On the downside, the days are often long for an AAP kid with a bus-ride and they are separated from the neighborhood kids.

As a parent who had a kid in base school for 2 years and then 4 years at a center, I agree 100% with the above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the centers tend to be more rigorous because they draw from kids from multiple different ES. They also offer more social opportunities as there are more kids (local IV programs often only have enough for 1 class of AAP kids that are with each other year after year). For a "new kid" coming in, it might be good to go to the center where all the kids are "new kids" to each other. Also a center usually has multiple AAP teachers in each grade who can share resources, collaborate etc.

On the downside, the days are often long for an AAP kid with a bus-ride and they are separated from the neighborhood kids.

Thanks, this is good insight. You say the centers are more rigorous because they pull kids from multiple elementary schools in the area. Any other reasons why it might be more rigorous? Because teachers have more of an opportunity to collaborate (because there are more of them in a center), or that the center has more resources because there’s a more concentrated segment of kids in level 4?

From the folks in my neighborhood, I keep hearing “my kid wanted to stay with their friends so we stayed at the base school.” And that is totally fine, but as I said previously, as someone who is coming from outside FCPS the whole friends argument seems.....not compelling enough when we potentially have an opportunity to go somewhere with more rigor, more resources and more social opportunities. Or maybe I’m way off base?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the centers tend to be more rigorous because they draw from kids from multiple different ES. They also offer more social opportunities as there are more kids (local IV programs often only have enough for 1 class of AAP kids that are with each other year after year). For a "new kid" coming in, it might be good to go to the center where all the kids are "new kids" to each other. Also a center usually has multiple AAP teachers in each grade who can share resources, collaborate etc.

On the downside, the days are often long for an AAP kid with a bus-ride and they are separated from the neighborhood kids.

Thanks, this is good insight. You say the centers are more rigorous because they pull kids from multiple elementary schools in the area. Any other reasons why it might be more rigorous? Because teachers have more of an opportunity to collaborate (because there are more of them in a center), or that the center has more resources because there’s a more concentrated segment of kids in level 4?

From the folks in my neighborhood, I keep hearing “my kid wanted to stay with their friends so we stayed at the base school.” And that is totally fine, but as I said previously, as someone who is coming from outside FCPS the whole friends argument seems.....not compelling enough when we potentially have an opportunity to go somewhere with more rigor, more resources and more social opportunities. Or maybe I’m way off base?!

AAP teachers have a lot more latitude than gen ed. I think the collaboration of teachers is big in the center--they hold each other to a pace and get ideas from each other on how to go deeper in language arts/social studies. Math in a local IV program will do the typical AAP accelerated pace, in a center there are often spin-off groups of advanced kids that do further acceleration and more math teams. In one way, it's really just a matter of numbers--more AAP kids, more AAP teachers = more support for extracurricular academics, for extensions, for accelerated groups.

But there are also more qualitative differences in my experience. In many Local IV programs, only a portion of the AAP class is often center-eligible, principals have discretion to add kids who they think would benefit (or whose parents strongly advocate for their placement). I think this actually makes the AAP program more permeable and effective for a wider range of kids, but in practice it means the pace might be slower or projects less of the intensity that you see at the center. For instance, one of my DCs is highly attuned to social pressure--in the AAP center if she gets excited about a project she'll write 20 pages on it, do lots of detailed work, talk excitedly and no one blinks at it because many of them do the same thing about something that interests them. She has spin-off "book groups" outside of school because they want to read and talk about another book by an author they are reading in school, and has shared writing docs for stories with different friends in class and they have written hundreds of pages together.

But if she's in a context where any of that would be viewed as "weird" or "nerdy" she would shut that down. I don't know if that would be the case in the local level IV, but in her girl scout troop (which is our neighborhood troop, not her center school's and about 70% of the girls in it are in our base school's local IV program) she talks way more blase and complain-y about school and her school-ish interests.

[Anonymous]

I don't know that pyramid, but sometimes the AAP elementary center feeds into a different middle school than the base school, and then a different high school than the neighborhood, so your child could be going to middle and high school with just a few kids who they know. Not ideal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the centers tend to be more rigorous because they draw from kids from multiple different ES. They also offer more social opportunities as there are more kids (local IV programs often only have enough for 1 class of AAP kids that are with each other year after year). For a "new kid" coming in, it might be good to go to the center where all the kids are "new kids" to each other. Also a center usually has multiple AAP teachers in each grade who can share resources, collaborate etc.

On the downside, the days are often long for an AAP kid with a bus-ride and they are separated from the neighborhood kids.

Thanks, this is good insight. You say the centers are more rigorous because they pull kids from multiple elementary schools in the area. Any other reasons why it might be more rigorous? Because teachers have more of an opportunity to collaborate (because there are more of them in a center), or that the center has more resources because there’s a more concentrated segment of kids in level 4?

From the folks in my neighborhood, I keep hearing “my kid wanted to stay with their friends so we stayed at the base school.” And that is totally fine, but as I said previously, as someone who is coming from outside FCPS the whole friends argument seems.....not compelling enough when we potentially have an opportunity to go somewhere with more rigor, more resources and more social opportunities. Or maybe I’m way off base?!

AAP teachers have a lot more latitude than gen ed. I think the collaboration of teachers is big in the center--they hold each other to a pace and get ideas from each other on how to go deeper in language arts/social studies. Math in a local IV program will do the typical AAP accelerated pace, in a center there are often spin-off groups of advanced kids that do further acceleration and more math teams. In one way, it's really just a matter of numbers--more AAP kids, more AAP teachers = more support for extracurricular academics, for extensions, for accelerated groups.

But there are also more qualitative differences in my experience. In many Local IV programs, only a portion of the AAP class is often center-eligible, principals have discretion to add kids who they think would benefit (or whose parents strongly advocate for their placement). I think this actually makes the AAP program more permeable and effective for a wider range of kids, but in practice it means the pace might be slower or projects less of the intensity that you see at the center. For instance, one of my DCs is highly attuned to social pressure--in the AAP center if she gets excited about a project she'll write 20 pages on it, do lots of detailed work, talk excitedly and no one blinks at it because many of them do the same thing about something that interests them. She has spin-off "book groups" outside of school because they want to read and talk about another book by an author they are reading in school, and has shared writing docs for stories with different friends in class and they have written hundreds of pages together.

But if she's in a context where any of that would be viewed as "weird" or "nerdy" she would shut that down. I don't know if that would be the case in the local level IV, but in her girl scout troop (which is our neighborhood troop, not her center school's and about 70% of the girls in it are in our base school's local IV program) she talks way more blase and complain-y about school and her school-ish interests.

OP here — THANK YOU. This is exactly what I needed to hear.

My daughter, for example, loves chess and STEM related activities. She also loves writing stories, and does so frequently (sounds a lot like your DD!). I want her to be an environment where enjoying learning and doing interesting things like that is just accepted and sort of viewed as the norm, versus her being worried about being labeled as nerdy or uncool. She has such an awesome drive to learn right now and I don’t want that to be compromised because of social influences. Sure, I know one can’t completely avoid the social stuff but I’m really interested in her being in an environment where she surrounds herself with people who can lift her up, so to speak, versus being in a situation where she’d potentially stifle her creativity for fear
Of being viewed as the “weird” one.

Thank you again. This is so very helpful.