Yemeni Former Gitmo detainees help train bomber wannabe

[Anonymous]

2 former Yemeni Gitmo detainees, released in 2008, apparently provided training and logistic support to the Christmas day airline bomber.

In the effort to shut down Gitmo, 6 more Yemeni detainees were released in December 2009. There are about 80 remaining. Should we keep releasing them? What are our options?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/29/AR2009122902289.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR

[Anonymous]

On that same note, would it have been more prudent to have handed this terrorist over to the military or the CIA so that he could be interviewed at length to determine if there were/ are any pending and immediate threats? AQ usually strikes multiple targets (ie, U.S. embassy bombings, 9-11) in a short time period. His Mirandized statement was not necessary for a successful prosecution.

[Anonymous]

I am increasingly coming to believe that we are our own worst enemies. We have become so "civilized" that we have lost our survival instinct. These people (al Queda of the place du jour) want to kill us. All of us, not just Republicans, not just Aryans, not just Jews - every last one of us. What is it going to take to wake up?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:2 former Yemeni Gitmo detainees, released in 2008, apparently provided training and logistic support to the Christmas day airline bomber.

This "fact" apparently originated with an ABC News report. ABC has since corrected the report to acknowledge that one of the two former detainees turned himself in to Saudi authorities last February. Therefore, there is no way that individual could have been involved in the Christmas day incident.

The information alleging the second individual's involvement seems to have come from the same source as the information about the first. Therefore, it should be taken with a considerable amount of salt.

It is almost always the case that in the aftermath of events such as the attempted Christmas bombing, a ton of misinformation gets spread. I have no idea why people don't learn to take a deep breath and wait for something more than unattributed quotes from unnamed individuals. The fact that some Republican politicians are not only helping to spread such misinformation, but actively trying to raise money from it, is shameful.

[Anonymous]

I had read it in the Post, so it is not just Republicans who were spreading the word.

[Anonymous]

I guess I cannot blame any of the Gitmo detainees for hating the United States. Everybody that was any where in the vicinity during the U.S. roundup were considered enemies and tortured as such. Therefore, if you were not a terrorist when you went into Gitmo, the U.S. actions ultimately turned many of them into terrorists. Yes, we are are own worst enemies. Now how can the problem be corrected. Do we continue to detain those who were never enemy combatants until the US swept them up and treated them as such because now many may and are very well indeed haters of the U.S.A.

[Anonymous]

Oh please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh please.

I think the PP has a point. Even the Bush Administration had to concede that they picked up a bunch of nobodies. And after the way they were treated, it is hard to imagine they would have anything but dislike for our country. I don't believe that they are likely to train the next bomber, but I bet a lot of them would pick up a gun just to get some revenge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess I cannot blame any of the Gitmo detainees for hating the United States. Everybody that was any where in the vicinity during the U.S. roundup were considered enemies and tortured as such. Therefore, if you were not a terrorist when you went into Gitmo, the U.S. actions ultimately turned many of them into terrorists. Yes, we are are own worst enemies. Now how can the problem be corrected. Do we continue to detain those who were never enemy combatants until the US swept them up and treated them as such because now many may and are very well indeed haters of the U.S.A.

Exaggeration much? I second the "oh please" - the disrespect you show our military is astounding! My friends and family do not indiscriminately round up Iraqis - or Yemenis in Afganistan and Iraq for that matter - and torture them. That I even have to type that sentence is disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Exaggeration much? I second the "oh please" - the disrespect you show our military is astounding! My friends and family do not indiscriminately round up Iraqis - or Yemenis in Afganistan and Iraq for that matter - and torture them. That I even have to type that sentence is disgusting.

I'm sure your family members are all wonderful people. But it's rotten debate logic to respond to a claim that shit happens by treating it as a personal insult.

Note please, that I did not say that you are a rotten person or that you are incapable of logic. Most of us make slips like that now and then, especially when under the emotional stress of feeling insulted by a general statement that we have taken personally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had read it in the Post, so it is not just Republicans who were spreading the word.

You are correct and Steele is wrong. As reported in the Washington Post today, the number 2 AQ leader in Yemen is a former Gitmo detainee. He was involved in the September 2008 attack on the US embassy in Sanaa, which resulted in 1 US death and multiple Yemeni deaths.

We cannot release the nearly 90 Yemeni Gitmo detainees back to Yemen. To do so would be foolish. Yemen's civil war has resurfaced, and the that fact it will run out of water and oil in the next fifteen years is not going to help the war on terror. Yemen's last heroic effort in the war on terror was the incarceration of US Cole suspects. They escaped from a prison in Aden. The left needs to wake up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I cannot blame any of the Gitmo detainees for hating the United States. Everybody that was any where in the vicinity during the U.S. roundup were considered enemies and tortured as such. Therefore, if you were not a terrorist when you went into Gitmo, the U.S. actions ultimately turned many of them into terrorists. Yes, we are are own worst enemies. Now how can the problem be corrected. Do we continue to detain those who were never enemy combatants until the US swept them up and treated them as such because now many may and are very well indeed haters of the U.S.A.

Exaggeration much? I second the "oh please" - the disrespect you show our military is astounding! My friends and family do not indiscriminately round up Iraqis - or Yemenis in Afganistan and Iraq for that matter - and torture them. That I even have to type that sentence is disgusting.

Personal much. You are not the only one who has had friends and family fight in Afgahanistan and Iraq, or for that matter do a tour of duty in Guantanomo. Perhaps you should really talk o these friends and family members of yours and ask them to give you the real truth. Or perhaps they withhold such information from you because you cannot handle the truth. The fact of the matter is that many innocent people were rounded up and taken to Cuba. Some of the detainees were turned over to the allies by warring tribes in Afghanistan. It was a means to get rid of their enemies, but not necessary enemies of the U.S. Many of the detainees were tortured, that has been proven over and over again. Hell, you don't have to be a Republican, Democrat or Independent to recognize that information. You simply have to accept the facts. Now do the U.S. release these men who were innocent rounded up, but now would have a serious hatred for the U.S., my independent leaning mind would say, NO. It is truly unfortuante for them, but I do not know how you can prevent them from joining in with groups who would want to do harm to me as a U.S. citizen. Now you can keep your head in the sand and yell that ridiculous call that if you say anything negative about the military or the U.S. you show a disrespect, but don't even begin to presume that you are the only person who has a loved one or friend fight in this ridiculous war called "war on terror". You just stop thinking and keep your head in the sand, for you are probably one of those people who think we should next march into Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, um did I miss any of the places where the U.S. military and intelligence know where there are real Al Quaeda participants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I cannot blame any of the Gitmo detainees for hating the United States. Everybody that was any where in the vicinity during the U.S. roundup were considered enemies and tortured as such. Therefore, if you were not a terrorist when you went into Gitmo, the U.S. actions ultimately turned many of them into terrorists. Yes, we are are own worst enemies. Now how can the problem be corrected. Do we continue to detain those who were never enemy combatants until the US swept them up and treated them as such because now many may and are very well indeed haters of the U.S.A.

Exaggeration much? I second the "oh please" - the disrespect you show our military is astounding! My friends and family do not indiscriminately round up Iraqis - or Yemenis in Afganistan and Iraq for that matter - and torture them. That I even have to type that sentence is disgusting.

Personal much. You are not the only one who has had friends and family fight in Afgahanistan and Iraq, or for that matter do a tour of duty in Guantanomo. Perhaps you should really talk o these friends and family members of yours and ask them to give you the real truth. Or perhaps they withhold such information from you because you cannot handle the truth. The fact of the matter is that many innocent people were rounded up and taken to Cuba. Some of the detainees were turned over to the allies by warring tribes in Afghanistan. It was a means to get rid of their enemies, but not necessary enemies of the U.S. Many of the detainees were tortured, that has been proven over and over again. Hell, you don't have to be a Republican, Democrat or Independent to recognize that information. You simply have to accept the facts. Now do the U.S. release these men who were innocent rounded up, but now would have a serious hatred for the U.S., my independent leaning mind would say, NO. It is truly unfortuante for them, but I do not know how you can prevent them from joining in with groups who would want to do harm to me as a U.S. citizen. Now you can keep your head in the sand and yell that ridiculous call that if you say anything negative about the military or the U.S. you show a disrespect, but don't even begin to presume that you are the only person who has a loved one or friend fight in this ridiculous war called "war on terror". You just stop thinking and keep your head in the sand, for you are probably one of those people who think we should next march into Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, um did I miss any of the places where the U.S. military and intelligence know where there are real Al Quaeda participants.

There is a vast difference between the words MANY and EVERYBODY, between MANY and ALL. While I am not agreeing with your characterization of many (how many makes many), that SOME were rounded up in error is certainly true. Error however, does not mean mal-intent on the part of our armed services. Were some of the innocents subjected to torture to try to get supposed information from them, most probably true also. Again, unless the questioners KNEW that the person was innocent and KNEW that they didn't know anything, did the questioners do wrong? Reasonable people may, and do disagree. There is apparently a wide range of opinion on that - I heard yesterday that recent poll said 70 some percent of americans agreed that the undie-bomber should be waterboarded to learn more. You are likely in the 30% disagreeing, but so be it.

My point is that adjectives matter and if you assume ALL detainees are innocent, this can have disasterous future repercussions. Ditto that ALL military personnel round up ALL innocent people and torture ALL of them. I do react personally when people that I KNOW to be good, decent, hard working, and willing to do a job that many of us are not are labeled torturers just because a few within that group did engage in torture. If we do and should agree that all Muslims are not jihadists, then we likewise should agree that all members of our military do not indiscriminately round up innocent civilians in a war zone to torture.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, my numbers are wrong. 58% are ok with waterboarding the undie bomber, 30% opposed.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/december_2009/58_favor_waterboarding_of_plane_terrorist_to_get_information

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess I cannot blame any of the Gitmo detainees for hating the United States. Everybody that was any where in the vicinity during the U.S. roundup were considered enemies and tortured as such. Therefore, if you were not a terrorist when you went into Gitmo, the U.S. actions ultimately turned many of them into terrorists. Yes, we are are own worst enemies. Now how can the problem be corrected. Do we continue to detain those who were never enemy combatants until the US swept them up and treated them as such because now many may and are very well indeed haters of the U.S.A.

Exaggeration much? I second the "oh please" - the disrespect you show our military is astounding! My friends and family do not indiscriminately round up Iraqis - or Yemenis in Afganistan and Iraq for that matter - and torture them. That I even have to type that sentence is disgusting.

Personal much. You are not the only one who has had friends and family fight in Afgahanistan and Iraq, or for that matter do a tour of duty in Guantanomo. Perhaps you should really talk o these friends and family members of yours and ask them to give you the real truth. Or perhaps they withhold such information from you because you cannot handle the truth. The fact of the matter is that many innocent people were rounded up and taken to Cuba. Some of the detainees were turned over to the allies by warring tribes in Afghanistan. It was a means to get rid of their enemies, but not necessary enemies of the U.S. Many of the detainees were tortured, that has been proven over and over again. Hell, you don't have to be a Republican, Democrat or Independent to recognize that information. You simply have to accept the facts. Now do the U.S. release these men who were innocent rounded up, but now would have a serious hatred for the U.S., my independent leaning mind would say, NO. It is truly unfortuante for them, but I do not know how you can prevent them from joining in with groups who would want to do harm to me as a U.S. citizen. Now you can keep your head in the sand and yell that ridiculous call that if you say anything negative about the military or the U.S. you show a disrespect, but don't even begin to presume that you are the only person who has a loved one or friend fight in this ridiculous war called "war on terror". You just stop thinking and keep your head in the sand, for you are probably one of those people who think we should next march into Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, um did I miss any of the places where the U.S. military and intelligence know where there are real Al Quaeda participants.

There is a vast difference between the words MANY and EVERYBODY, between MANY and ALL. While I am not agreeing with your characterization of many (how many makes many), that SOME were rounded up in error is certainly true. Error however, does not mean mal-intent on the part of our armed services. Were some of the innocents subjected to torture to try to get supposed information from them, most probably true also. Again, unless the questioners KNEW that the person was innocent and KNEW that they didn't know anything, did the questioners do wrong? Reasonable people may, and do disagree. There is apparently a wide range of opinion on that - I heard yesterday that recent poll said 70 some percent of americans agreed that the undie-bomber should be waterboarded to learn more. You are likely in the 30% disagreeing, but so be it.

My point is that adjectives matter and if you assume ALL detainees are innocent, this can have disasterous future repercussions. Ditto that ALL military personnel round up ALL innocent people and torture ALL of them. I do react personally when people that I KNOW to be good, decent, hard working, and willing to do a job that many of us are not are labeled torturers just because a few within that group did engage in torture. If we do and should agree that all Muslims are not jihadists, then we likewise should agree that all members of our military do not indiscriminately round up innocent civilians in a war zone to torture.

Your entire rant is about a logical error you made in reading the other person's post. That poster never said that everyone rounded up was innocent. She said that everyone in the vicinity was rounded up (regardless of innocence). That has proven to be true. The numbers of prisoners released, and the reasons given for their release, clearly demonstrates that more often than not we rounded up people with insufficient evidence. Clearly neither that poster or any other sane person believes that ALL detainees were innocent and so stop distorting her argument.

Lastly, right and wrong is not determined by a poll. If you need to look to public opinion to see right from wrong, you have an insufficiently developed moral framework.