FCPS difference between Algebra and Algebra Honors and Math 8

[Anonymous]

What are the big differences. Our child was recommended for Math 7 Honors this year, but we opted for Math 7 to keep things light and fun. He gets perfect scores, but it takes work. He is not naturally gifted in math. I was told next year the kids from math 7 go one of three ways Math 8, Algebra or Algebra Honors, but honors is rare. We are not interested in Honors, but wonder if even Algebra is a bit much since you skip Math 8. I notice in Math 7, they don't do many extensions and they keep things simple. I wonder how well it truly prepares them for even regular Algebra.

Also, what is Math 8 like? We are not of the mentality of rush, rush, rush. Our kid is not bored in Math 7 and actually feels confident and loves math because it is the one class he finds easy. I am just wondering if it is worth it to skip Math 8, even if a student is strong. He doesn't get bored when things are easy, he just has more time to focus on other subjects.

[Anonymous]

Given that about 75-80 % of white and asian kids take Algebra I by 8th grade, you might want to think about whether you want your kid to do Math 8 in 8th grade.

Your child should definitely NOT take Alg I Hons next year. So the only question is whether he should do MAth 8 or Alg. I.

If your kid is doing well in Math 7, then he is prepared for Alg. I.

We left the choice of math classes for 7th and 8th grade up to our kid. I felt that it was important for him to have the choice and if it was too easy or too hard, he would have ownership of the decision and learn from that choice.

There isn't a truly "wrong" answer -- but there is information that one can consider (regarding future math classes, peer group in the math class your kid chooses, etc.) that might tip the scale in one direction or the other.

[Anonymous]

I teach all 3 of those courses.

Please know that this isn't a decision set it stone right now. You can put down your initial choice on the course request form, wait and see how the rest of the year plays out, what the SOL score looks like, etc, and then change your decision over the summer.

The math 7/math 8 curriculums really changed last year. They are now far more challenging classes than they were 2, 3, 10 years ago. Math 8 is truly first semester algebra spread over a year, with a sprinkling of other things. Math 7 is finally a decent step towards algebra, instead of an overly basic repeat of 6th grade.

I kept spreadsheets for years showing the progression of math 7 SOL scores to algebra SOL scores. Historically a 450 in math 7 was going to pass algebra with an A or a B. (Understand that all schools teach algebra differently too--some include extensions when possible, some keep it extremely basic. It's hard to make recommendations without knowing the school).

In my experience, the jump to algebra from math 7 is challenging for almost all kids, but most who are well prepared rise to that challenge. If you are worried, I'd get a tutor for the first 2 months of school to get through expressions and equations. If your DC can get through those successfully, you can wean off the support.

[Anonymous]

OP here. This is helpful. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Given that about 75-80 % of white and asian kids take Algebra I by 8th grade, you might want to think about whether you want your kid to do Math 8 in 8th grade.

Your child should definitely NOT take Alg I Hons next year. So the only question is whether he should do MAth 8 or Alg. I.

If your kid is doing well in Math 7, then he is prepared for Alg. I.

We left the choice of math classes for 7th and 8th grade up to our kid. I felt that it was important for him to have the choice and if it was too easy or too hard, he would have ownership of the decision and learn from that choice.

There isn't a truly "wrong" answer -- but there is information that one can consider (regarding future math classes, peer group in the math class your kid chooses, etc.) that might tip the scale in one direction or the other.

The truth is that 50% of the white kids and 35% of the Asian kids do not belong in Algebra I in the 8th grade. The teacher has to dilute the curriculum down to the dumbest common denominator. So while your Honors/AAP darling is on record for taking Algebra I, they are realistically taking Math 8-plus or Algebra I Lite. Don't believe it? Check SAT scores. Math scores continue to decline as enrollment in Honors and AP courses increases. It'sall smoke and mirrors, people.

[Anonymous]

My son was pushed into Algebra 1 in 7th grade. I didn’t think he was ready but the school said he scores on their placement test showed readiness. He ended the year with a C. I wanted him to repeat it in 8th grade and I think he ended the year with a low B. His high school placement test showed he wasn’t ready to skip Algebra 1 so he is taking it again. I wish I had listened to my gut in 7th grade but the schools are very motivated to get kids to place out of Algebra 1 in high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given that about 75-80 % of white and asian kids take Algebra I by 8th grade, you might want to think about whether you want your kid to do Math 8 in 8th grade.

Your child should definitely NOT take Alg I Hons next year. So the only question is whether he should do MAth 8 or Alg. I.

If your kid is doing well in Math 7, then he is prepared for Alg. I.

We left the choice of math classes for 7th and 8th grade up to our kid. I felt that it was important for him to have the choice and if it was too easy or too hard, he would have ownership of the decision and learn from that choice.

There isn't a truly "wrong" answer -- but there is information that one can consider (regarding future math classes, peer group in the math class your kid chooses, etc.) that might tip the scale in one direction or the other.

The truth is that 50% of the white kids and 35% of the Asian kids do not belong in Algebra I in the 8th grade. The teacher has to dilute the curriculum down to the dumbest common denominator. So while your Honors/AAP darling is on record for taking Algebra I, they are realistically taking Math 8-plus or Algebra I Lite. Don't believe it? Check SAT scores. Math scores continue to decline as enrollment in Honors and AP courses increases. It'sall smoke and mirrors, people.

you're making QUITE a few logical leaps that do not make logical sense.

There are many reasons SAT scores might decline (although I do not have proof that SAT scores have actually declined). Even if we assume your assertion for the sake of the argument, it could be that kids aren't as good at Alg. II concepts or Geometry concepts. Or that the SAT math has pre-calc that kids aren't understanding. You can't just claim that SAT scores have declined (without citation) and then point to Alg. I and say "ah HA! -- it's Alg I's fault!). Not only could there be deficiencies in higher level math, but there could be DIFFERENT kids taking the SAT now than there were X years ago when you say the SAT math scores were higher. Maybe there are more minorities taking the SAT in this area and they historically have lower math scores. Again -- you provided no support for your claim that the scores are lower, so we really can't accept your conclusion that it's all because kids are taking Alg. I in 8th grade and the Alg. I in 8th grade is weaker.

Then we move on to your claim that those SAT math scores have declined as "enrollment in Honors and AP courses increases." Well, let's see -- which honors and AP courses would you be speaking of??? Because I'm pretty sure that most kids are not taking AP math courses, and those that do, are typically taking them in junior or senior year. In fact, the kids who take AP Calc are really NOT the ones who would be having a hard time on SAT math. And the ones taking AP Stat, typically take that senior year -- which would be AFTER they have already taken the SAT. As for kids taking honors -- I'm not sure how that is even relevant to the claim you are making about Alg. I in 8th grade being watered down -- we aren't talking about Alg. I Hons.... so how is it that taking Alg I in 8th relates to kids taking honors math and not doing well on the SAT? Your arguments are full of holes and don't make logical sense. But, I guess we should just take your word that "50% of the white kids and 35% of the asian kids do not belong in Alg I in 8th grade."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given that about 75-80 % of white and asian kids take Algebra I by 8th grade, you might want to think about whether you want your kid to do Math 8 in 8th grade.

Your child should definitely NOT take Alg I Hons next year. So the only question is whether he should do MAth 8 or Alg. I.

If your kid is doing well in Math 7, then he is prepared for Alg. I.

We left the choice of math classes for 7th and 8th grade up to our kid. I felt that it was important for him to have the choice and if it was too easy or too hard, he would have ownership of the decision and learn from that choice.

There isn't a truly "wrong" answer -- but there is information that one can consider (regarding future math classes, peer group in the math class your kid chooses, etc.) that might tip the scale in one direction or the other.

The truth is that 50% of the white kids and 35% of the Asian kids do not belong in Algebra I in the 8th grade. The teacher has to dilute the curriculum down to the dumbest common denominator. So while your Honors/AAP darling is on record for taking Algebra I, they are realistically taking Math 8-plus or Algebra I Lite. Don't believe it? Check SAT scores. Math scores continue to decline as enrollment in Honors and AP courses increases. It'sall smoke and mirrors, people.

you're making QUITE a few logical leaps that do not make logical sense.

There are many reasons SAT scores might decline (although I do not have proof that SAT scores have actually declined). Even if we assume your assertion for the sake of the argument, it could be that kids aren't as good at Alg. II concepts or Geometry concepts. Or that the SAT math has pre-calc that kids aren't understanding. You can't just claim that SAT scores have declined (without citation) and then point to Alg. I and say "ah HA! -- it's Alg I's fault!). Not only could there be deficiencies in higher level math, but there could be DIFFERENT kids taking the SAT now than there were X years ago when you say the SAT math scores were higher. Maybe there are more minorities taking the SAT in this area and they historically have lower math scores. Again -- you provided no support for your claim that the scores are lower, so we really can't accept your conclusion that it's all because kids are taking Alg. I in 8th grade and the Alg. I in 8th grade is weaker.

Then we move on to your claim that those SAT math scores have declined as "enrollment in Honors and AP courses increases." Well, let's see -- which honors and AP courses would you be speaking of??? Because I'm pretty sure that most kids are not taking AP math courses, and those that do, are typically taking them in junior or senior year. In fact, the kids who take AP Calc are really NOT the ones who would be having a hard time on SAT math. And the ones taking AP Stat, typically take that senior year -- which would be AFTER they have already taken the SAT. As for kids taking honors -- I'm not sure how that is even relevant to the claim you are making about Alg. I in 8th grade being watered down -- we aren't talking about Alg. I Hons.... so how is it that taking Alg I in 8th relates to kids taking honors math and not doing well on the SAT? Your arguments are full of holes and don't make logical sense. But, I guess we should just take your word that "50% of the white kids and 35% of the asian kids do not belong in Alg I in 8th grade."

Whenever SAT scores start to decline, the College Board (in its infinite wisdom and ever-expanding quest for profits) re-centers its scoring -- and voila -- the scores magically increase. It's all smoke and mirrors, sheeple!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son was pushed into Algebra 1 in 7th grade. I didn’t think he was ready but the school said he scores on their placement test showed readiness. He ended the year with a C. I wanted him to repeat it in 8th grade and I think he ended the year with a low B. His high school placement test showed he wasn’t ready to skip Algebra 1 so he is taking it again. I wish I had listened to my gut in 7th grade but the schools are very motivated to get kids to place out of Algebra 1 in high school.

I have been to multiple different "curriculum nights" for 7th graders at different middle schools. At every single one, the math dept. staff absolutely DISCOURAGED parents and kids from doing Alg. I Hons in 7th grade. My kid scored high enough to take it in 7th. He chose not to. Then he realized that all of his classmates ignored the warning and took Alg. I hons. It's o.k. though -- he has an relatively easy year in Math 7 Hons. and has an A in Alg. I hons now. And, he learned a lesson about how to make decisions in the future. It's all good.

I will agree that schools are happy to have kids take Alg in 8th. But, based on my experience at about 4 MSs, they are definitely NOT encouraging kids to take Alg I Hons in 7th. They are very actively DIScouraging it, even though many parents are pushing their kids toward it.

That said, the 7th grade Alg I Hon option does not apply to OP. And the 8th grade Alg. I Hon option does not apply either. OP is only really looking at Math 8 or Alg. I in 8th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given that about 75-80 % of white and asian kids take Algebra I by 8th grade, you might want to think about whether you want your kid to do Math 8 in 8th grade.

Your child should definitely NOT take Alg I Hons next year. So the only question is whether he should do MAth 8 or Alg. I.

If your kid is doing well in Math 7, then he is prepared for Alg. I.

We left the choice of math classes for 7th and 8th grade up to our kid. I felt that it was important for him to have the choice and if it was too easy or too hard, he would have ownership of the decision and learn from that choice.

There isn't a truly "wrong" answer -- but there is information that one can consider (regarding future math classes, peer group in the math class your kid chooses, etc.) that might tip the scale in one direction or the other.

The truth is that 50% of the white kids and 35% of the Asian kids do not belong in Algebra I in the 8th grade. The teacher has to dilute the curriculum down to the dumbest common denominator. So while your Honors/AAP darling is on record for taking Algebra I, they are realistically taking Math 8-plus or Algebra I Lite. Don't believe it? Check SAT scores. Math scores continue to decline as enrollment in Honors and AP courses increases. It'sall smoke and mirrors, people.

you're making QUITE a few logical leaps that do not make logical sense.

There are many reasons SAT scores might decline (although I do not have proof that SAT scores have actually declined). Even if we assume your assertion for the sake of the argument, it could be that kids aren't as good at Alg. II concepts or Geometry concepts. Or that the SAT math has pre-calc that kids aren't understanding. You can't just claim that SAT scores have declined (without citation) and then point to Alg. I and say "ah HA! -- it's Alg I's fault!). Not only could there be deficiencies in higher level math, but there could be DIFFERENT kids taking the SAT now than there were X years ago when you say the SAT math scores were higher. Maybe there are more minorities taking the SAT in this area and they historically have lower math scores. Again -- you provided no support for your claim that the scores are lower, so we really can't accept your conclusion that it's all because kids are taking Alg. I in 8th grade and the Alg. I in 8th grade is weaker.

Then we move on to your claim that those SAT math scores have declined as "enrollment in Honors and AP courses increases." Well, let's see -- which honors and AP courses would you be speaking of??? Because I'm pretty sure that most kids are not taking AP math courses, and those that do, are typically taking them in junior or senior year. In fact, the kids who take AP Calc are really NOT the ones who would be having a hard time on SAT math. And the ones taking AP Stat, typically take that senior year -- which would be AFTER they have already taken the SAT. As for kids taking honors -- I'm not sure how that is even relevant to the claim you are making about Alg. I in 8th grade being watered down -- we aren't talking about Alg. I Hons.... so how is it that taking Alg I in 8th relates to kids taking honors math and not doing well on the SAT? Your arguments are full of holes and don't make logical sense. But, I guess we should just take your word that "50% of the white kids and 35% of the asian kids do not belong in Alg I in 8th grade."

Whenever SAT scores start to decline, the College Board (in its infinite wisdom and ever-expanding quest for profits) re-centers its scoring -- and voila -- the scores magically increase. It's all smoke and mirrors, sheeple!

STill not proof or citations... sigh.... sheeple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given that about 75-80 % of white and asian kids take Algebra I by 8th grade, you might want to think about whether you want your kid to do Math 8 in 8th grade.

Your child should definitely NOT take Alg I Hons next year. So the only question is whether he should do MAth 8 or Alg. I.

If your kid is doing well in Math 7, then he is prepared for Alg. I.

We left the choice of math classes for 7th and 8th grade up to our kid. I felt that it was important for him to have the choice and if it was too easy or too hard, he would have ownership of the decision and learn from that choice.

There isn't a truly "wrong" answer -- but there is information that one can consider (regarding future math classes, peer group in the math class your kid chooses, etc.) that might tip the scale in one direction or the other.

The truth is that 50% of the white kids and 35% of the Asian kids do not belong in Algebra I in the 8th grade. The teacher has to dilute the curriculum down to the dumbest common denominator. So while your Honors/AAP darling is on record for taking Algebra I, they are realistically taking Math 8-plus or Algebra I Lite. Don't believe it? Check SAT scores. Math scores continue to decline as enrollment in Honors and AP courses increases. It'sall smoke and mirrors, people.

you're making QUITE a few logical leaps that do not make logical sense.

There are many reasons SAT scores might decline (although I do not have proof that SAT scores have actually declined). Even if we assume your assertion for the sake of the argument, it could be that kids aren't as good at Alg. II concepts or Geometry concepts. Or that the SAT math has pre-calc that kids aren't understanding. You can't just claim that SAT scores have declined (without citation) and then point to Alg. I and say "ah HA! -- it's Alg I's fault!). Not only could there be deficiencies in higher level math, but there could be DIFFERENT kids taking the SAT now than there were X years ago when you say the SAT math scores were higher. Maybe there are more minorities taking the SAT in this area and they historically have lower math scores. Again -- you provided no support for your claim that the scores are lower, so we really can't accept your conclusion that it's all because kids are taking Alg. I in 8th grade and the Alg. I in 8th grade is weaker.

Then we move on to your claim that those SAT math scores have declined as "enrollment in Honors and AP courses increases." Well, let's see -- which honors and AP courses would you be speaking of??? Because I'm pretty sure that most kids are not taking AP math courses, and those that do, are typically taking them in junior or senior year. In fact, the kids who take AP Calc are really NOT the ones who would be having a hard time on SAT math. And the ones taking AP Stat, typically take that senior year -- which would be AFTER they have already taken the SAT. As for kids taking honors -- I'm not sure how that is even relevant to the claim you are making about Alg. I in 8th grade being watered down -- we aren't talking about Alg. I Hons.... so how is it that taking Alg I in 8th relates to kids taking honors math and not doing well on the SAT? Your arguments are full of holes and don't make logical sense. But, I guess we should just take your word that "50% of the white kids and 35% of the asian kids do not belong in Alg I in 8th grade."

Whenever SAT scores start to decline, the College Board (in its infinite wisdom and ever-expanding quest for profits) re-centers its scoring -- and voila -- the scores magically increase. It's all smoke and mirrors, sheeple!

STill not proof or citations... sigh.... sheeple.

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR REFUTATIONS!

https://www.nsf.gov/nsb/sei/edTool/data/highschool-08.html

https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2019-10-30/across-the-board-scores-drop-in-math-and-reading-for-us-students

https://edsource.org/2016/u-s-math-scores-decline-on-international-test-of-15-year-olds/573768

https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2018/10/17/math-scores-slide-to-a-20-year-low.html

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE SMOKE!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Given that about 75-80 % of white and asian kids take Algebra I by 8th grade, you might want to think about whether you want your kid to do Math 8 in 8th grade.

Your child should definitely NOT take Alg I Hons next year. So the only question is whether he should do MAth 8 or Alg. I.

If your kid is doing well in Math 7, then he is prepared for Alg. I.

We left the choice of math classes for 7th and 8th grade up to our kid. I felt that it was important for him to have the choice and if it was too easy or too hard, he would have ownership of the decision and learn from that choice.

There isn't a truly "wrong" answer -- but there is information that one can consider (regarding future math classes, peer group in the math class your kid chooses, etc.) that might tip the scale in one direction or the other.

+1 OP, our DD is exact situation as your child. 98% second quarter. Reached out to teacher if it was possible/appropriate to move to Honors THIS year. Recommend against since she will have missed a couple of units, but if maintained performance, she would recommend Alg in 8th.

[Anonymous]

I would ask the current math teacher and the guidance counselor for their opinions. They will have a good idea how kids similar to yours have done in the two options, and they will have a good idea of the teachers in those courses, and that can make a difference. I am a teacher and am not putting down teachers, but if they seem to think your child will have a positive experience in Math 8, and seem less enthusiastic about Algebra I, I’d take their advice. It is true that there are likely to be less behavior issues in higher level classes, but that’s not for sure. You can also ask the guidance counselor to place him with a teacher that will be a good fit for him in Algebra. My daughter was weak in math and when I met with the counselor before school started she looked at the assigned teacher and without saying anything, changed it. I didn’t k ow anything about the math teachers, but later my daughter had interactions with the original teacher on her schedule and said it would have been terrible. I went in because I wanted math taught every day, and the other classes on the block schedule, which is how they did it back then, and my request hadn’t been honored.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given that about 75-80 % of white and asian kids take Algebra I by 8th grade, you might want to think about whether you want your kid to do Math 8 in 8th grade.

Your child should definitely NOT take Alg I Hons next year. So the only question is whether he should do MAth 8 or Alg. I.

If your kid is doing well in Math 7, then he is prepared for Alg. I.

We left the choice of math classes for 7th and 8th grade up to our kid. I felt that it was important for him to have the choice and if it was too easy or too hard, he would have ownership of the decision and learn from that choice.

There isn't a truly "wrong" answer -- but there is information that one can consider (regarding future math classes, peer group in the math class your kid chooses, etc.) that might tip the scale in one direction or the other.

The truth is that 50% of the white kids and 35% of the Asian kids do not belong in Algebra I in the 8th grade. The teacher has to dilute the curriculum down to the dumbest common denominator. So while your Honors/AAP darling is on record for taking Algebra I, they are realistically taking Math 8-plus or Algebra I Lite. Don't believe it? Check SAT scores. Math scores continue to decline as enrollment in Honors and AP courses increases. It'sall smoke and mirrors, people.

you're making QUITE a few logical leaps that do not make logical sense.

There are many reasons SAT scores might decline (although I do not have proof that SAT scores have actually declined). Even if we assume your assertion for the sake of the argument, it could be that kids aren't as good at Alg. II concepts or Geometry concepts. Or that the SAT math has pre-calc that kids aren't understanding. You can't just claim that SAT scores have declined (without citation) and then point to Alg. I and say "ah HA! -- it's Alg I's fault!). Not only could there be deficiencies in higher level math, but there could be DIFFERENT kids taking the SAT now than there were X years ago when you say the SAT math scores were higher. Maybe there are more minorities taking the SAT in this area and they historically have lower math scores. Again -- you provided no support for your claim that the scores are lower, so we really can't accept your conclusion that it's all because kids are taking Alg. I in 8th grade and the Alg. I in 8th grade is weaker.

Then we move on to your claim that those SAT math scores have declined as "enrollment in Honors and AP courses increases." Well, let's see -- which honors and AP courses would you be speaking of??? Because I'm pretty sure that most kids are not taking AP math courses, and those that do, are typically taking them in junior or senior year. In fact, the kids who take AP Calc are really NOT the ones who would be having a hard time on SAT math. And the ones taking AP Stat, typically take that senior year -- which would be AFTER they have already taken the SAT. As for kids taking honors -- I'm not sure how that is even relevant to the claim you are making about Alg. I in 8th grade being watered down -- we aren't talking about Alg. I Hons.... so how is it that taking Alg I in 8th relates to kids taking honors math and not doing well on the SAT? Your arguments are full of holes and don't make logical sense. But, I guess we should just take your word that "50% of the white kids and 35% of the asian kids do not belong in Alg I in 8th grade."

Whenever SAT scores start to decline, the College Board (in its infinite wisdom and ever-expanding quest for profits) re-centers its scoring -- and voila -- the scores magically increase. It's all smoke and mirrors, sheeple!

STill not proof or citations... sigh.... sheeple.

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR REFUTATIONS!

https://www.nsf.gov/nsb/sei/edTool/data/highschool-08.html

https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2019-10-30/across-the-board-scores-drop-in-math-and-reading-for-us-students

https://edsource.org/2016/u-s-math-scores-decline-on-international-test-of-15-year-olds/573768

https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2018/10/17/math-scores-slide-to-a-20-year-low.html

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE SMOKE!

None of those speak to FCPS students ...or FCPS white and asian students (who are the ones most likely to take Alg 1 in 8th grade). Your logic is flawed.

[Anonymous]

Help me understand this:

IF

Math 7 vs Math 7 Honors is the same as Math 7 vs PreAlgebra

THEN,

Math 8 vs Math 8 Honors is the same as ??? vs Algebra?