lax culture from an insider

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it only D1 which gets commitments from/recruits freshmen and sophomores?

All these so-called commitments are is a statement by a boy to the coach of a college that saying your school is where I want to go.

No one signs anything. No one is offered anything by the school like a scholarship or even a paid official visit.

Recruiting, as defined by the NCAA, can't even occur till the Jr year. There are a whole set of rules and a handbook available on-line at NCAA.org

Players are free to do anything they want after "committing". And the school isn't bound to do anything.

There are different rules for DI and DIII since the DIII can't offer grants in aid.

Do yourself a favor. Read the handbook. You'll be light years ahead of everybody on here in terms of understanding the official terminology and the rules.

It's a verbal promise from a 15 yr old.

It's a silly practice that tends to limit the perceived flexibility of the student-athlete without any real commitment from the school.

We have had three boys go through the recruiting process, two of which were for more than one sport.


But the same rules apply to football and basketball and that doesn't stop the hoopla over "commits." We get that "decomitting" is possible, "committing" is still noteworthy.

[Anonymous]

The commentary in the last couple of posts on "commitments" is accurate; however, in general the colleges do try to honor them out of self-interest. If the coach of a top lacrosse program is seen as not honoring those commitments, it will make it more difficult for them in future recruiting. (Lots of discussion about these sorts of things on lacrosse forums like LaxPower.)

For the Ivies, you'll see language about a recruit "committing to the admissions process" at Ivy School X. That reflects the fact that the coaches at the Ivies have less control over the admissions process (although of course they have significant input) and that the standardized test scores (not available for freshman/sophomores) will be a major part of that equation.

Finally, yes, Division III recruiting generally happens later. Much more common to see kids focusing on DIII schools in the summer after junior year and committing (for what that's worth) in the fall of senior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The commentary in the last couple of posts on "commitments" is accurate; however, in general the colleges do try to honor them out of self-interest. If the coach of a top lacrosse program is seen as not honoring those commitments, it will make it more difficult for them in future recruiting. (Lots of discussion about these sorts of things on lacrosse forums like LaxPower.)

For the Ivies, you'll see language about a recruit "committing to the admissions process" at Ivy School X. That reflects the fact that the coaches at the Ivies have less control over the admissions process (although of course they have significant input) and that the standardized test scores (not available for freshman/sophomores) will be a major part of that equation.

Finally, yes, Division III recruiting generally happens later. Much more common to see kids focusing on DIII schools in the summer after junior year and committing (for what that's worth) in the fall of senior year.

The recent data are challenging some of these points. Our son is one of the "commits to the admissions process" at an Ivy, which basically means he has a preferenced chance of admission if he meets certain academic requirements. The requirements are very high, and if you blow it all bets are off. Also, there are situations where kids who were offered spots have them pulled. This year there is one Landon senior who was a lacrosse commit to UVa, and he didn't hold up in the grades and is out.

Also, there are examples of programs that have a coaching change and rescind the prior coach's commit list. Happened at Penn State couple years ago and is happening now at Cornell. Something to be aware of as a risk.

Basically I think this whole lacrosse thing is a blessing to be able to get your kid favored to be admitted to a good school that he otherwise would not be certain to get into. The scholarship money in lacrosse is also really low...25% of tuition is considered a jackpot. So in many regards, if you can't afford an expensive college, you'll find better luck having some lacrosse coach help with admissions at a school with a great endowment. Financial aid is a better dollars possibility than lacrosse. Then there is the other side...the 15 year olds of course love the status of bei ng a "commit" and the parents love to brag on it too. Is what it is. I just think focus on securing a good college for academics and that is the most you and your kid can see out of this. Nobody is going to make millions in this sport so prepare for a future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The commentary in the last couple of posts on "commitments" is accurate; however, in general the colleges do try to honor them out of self-interest. If the coach of a top lacrosse program is seen as not honoring those commitments, it will make it more difficult for them in future recruiting. (Lots of discussion about these sorts of things on lacrosse forums like LaxPower.)

For the Ivies, you'll see language about a recruit "committing to the admissions process" at Ivy School X. That reflects the fact that the coaches at the Ivies have less control over the admissions process (although of course they have significant input) and that the standardized test scores (not available for freshman/sophomores) will be a major part of that equation.

Finally, yes, Division III recruiting generally happens later. Much more common to see kids focusing on DIII schools in the summer after junior year and committing (for what that's worth) in the fall of senior year.

The recent data are challenging some of these points. Our son is one of the "commits to the admissions process" at an Ivy, which basically means he has a preferenced chance of admission if he meets certain academic requirements. The requirements are very high, and if you blow it all bets are off. Also, there are situations where kids who were offered spots have them pulled. This year there is one Landon senior who was a lacrosse commit to UVa, and he didn't hold up in the grades and is out.

Also, there are examples of programs that have a coaching change and rescind the prior coach's commit list. Happened at Penn State couple years ago and is happening now at Cornell. Something to be aware of as a risk.

Basically I think this whole lacrosse thing is a blessing to be able to get your kid favored to be admitted to a good school that he otherwise would not be certain to get into. The scholarship money in lacrosse is also really low...25% of tuition is considered a jackpot. So in many regards, if you can't afford an expensive college, you'll find better luck having some lacrosse coach help with admissions at a school with a great endowment. Financial aid is a better dollars possibility than lacrosse. Then there is the other side...the 15 year olds of course love the status of bei ng a "commit" and the parents love to brag on it too. Is what it is. I just think focus on securing a good college for academics and that is the most you and your kid can see out of this. Nobody is going to make millions in this sport so prepare for a future.

Thank you for the info. Can you be "recruited" to play lax at college, and get the admissions bump, but get no $. That would be fine by our family. DS is more interested in playing at the college level, and perhaps getting an admissions bump for a school he might otherwise not get into.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The commentary in the last couple of posts on "commitments" is accurate; however, in general the colleges do try to honor them out of self-interest. If the coach of a top lacrosse program is seen as not honoring those commitments, it will make it more difficult for them in future recruiting. (Lots of discussion about these sorts of things on lacrosse forums like LaxPower.)

For the Ivies, you'll see language about a recruit "committing to the admissions process" at Ivy School X. That reflects the fact that the coaches at the Ivies have less control over the admissions process (although of course they have significant input) and that the standardized test scores (not available for freshman/sophomores) will be a major part of that equation.

Finally, yes, Division III recruiting generally happens later. Much more common to see kids focusing on DIII schools in the summer after junior year and committing (for what that's worth) in the fall of senior year.

The recent data are challenging some of these points. Our son is one of the "commits to the admissions process" at an Ivy, which basically means he has a preferenced chance of admission if he meets certain academic requirements. The requirements are very high, and if you blow it all bets are off. Also, there are situations where kids who were offered spots have them pulled. This year there is one Landon senior who was a lacrosse commit to UVa, and he didn't hold up in the grades and is out.

Also, there are examples of programs that have a coaching change and rescind the prior coach's commit list. Happened at Penn State couple years ago and is happening now at Cornell. Something to be aware of as a risk.

Basically I think this whole lacrosse thing is a blessing to be able to get your kid favored to be admitted to a good school that he otherwise would not be certain to get into. The scholarship money in lacrosse is also really low...25% of tuition is considered a jackpot. So in many regards, if you can't afford an expensive college, you'll find better luck having some lacrosse coach help with admissions at a school with a great endowment. Financial aid is a better dollars possibility than lacrosse. Then there is the other side...the 15 year olds of course love the status of bei ng a "commit" and the parents love to brag on it too. Is what it is. I just think focus on securing a good college for academics and that is the most you and your kid can see out of this. Nobody is going to make millions in this sport so prepare for a future.

Thank you for the info. Can you be "recruited" to play lax at college, and get the admissions bump, but get no $. That would be fine by our family. DS is more interested in playing at the college level, and perhaps getting an admissions bump for a school he might otherwise not get into.

That is an excellent question and this is my answer based on severely limited experience of having one kid in this process. Yes, a school can -- and will -- recruit your son with NO intention of offering money or guarantees. Example: when my son was being recruited by UVa, the carrot offered was admission to a good school followed by the coaches noting we were VA instate and that in of itself is a great bargain. Then when asked back they said your son can be a scholarship kid, but we do the dollars later when we know our budget for scholarship money when he is a senior. Then he will get $1000 to $3000 range expected at that point. We know of one other kid locally who did commit early to UVa and got no money. The chase here is a good school and lacrosse prestige on top. Again, I would not let the economics guide your family as far as scholarship bucks. The coaches know when they are selling a great school and a great lacrosse program, and they know you and your kid are likely buyers of those terms. Just what I think

[Anonymous]

For DIII schools there are no athletic scholarships. It's all about getting an extra push through the admissions process. That said, all the DIII schools offer aid so whether they call a athletics related ride or not is semantics.

[Anonymous]

It's not semantics pp. DI can give athletic scholarships to super rich kids; whereas, DIII can give FA to needy students but not super rich kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not semantics pp. DI can give athletic scholarships to super rich kids; whereas, DIII can give FA to needy students but not super rich kids.

You are pretty far off and missing a point completely. Not all D1 schools are scholarship schools, like The Ivies. There are about 45 D1 scholarship programs by my count, and assuming they are all fully funded they have 12.6 scholarships in the program. Divide by four and that gives a little over 3 scholarships per recruiting class, and a recruiting class is 12 kids a year.

That means there are optimistic counts of 135 D1 scholarships per class in male D1 lacrosse. My son was recruited by some less than fully funded programs like Colgate, so I could only guess the real number is about 100 D1 scholarships per class in male lacrosse.

Your point is some rich kids get a fraction scholarship to Bucknell or Colgate or UVa and good for them. The right info for parents on this board is to recognize that lacrosse is about the worst way to hope to pay for college. Financial aid advantages due to places that have a great endowment and want a good kid and good lacrosse player from a family not so rich. Think "synthetic scholarship". My son was walked through an Ivy league campus on a visit by a player on almost a free ride. Working class family, and the school has the resources to make it work for families whether the kid is an artist or an athlete. I think a lot of families would be stunned to see how much better it is financially at some of the most expensive and prestigious colleges. Remember, lacrosse and the club, HS and college lacrosse coaches are using you and your son. Use lacrosse back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The commentary in the last couple of posts on "commitments" is accurate; however, in general the colleges do try to honor them out of self-interest. If the coach of a top lacrosse program is seen as not honoring those commitments, it will make it more difficult for them in future recruiting. (Lots of discussion about these sorts of things on lacrosse forums like LaxPower.)

For the Ivies, you'll see language about a recruit "committing to the admissions process" at Ivy School X. That reflects the fact that the coaches at the Ivies have less control over the admissions process (although of course they have significant input) and that the standardized test scores (not available for freshman/sophomores) will be a major part of that equation.

Finally, yes, Division III recruiting generally happens later. Much more common to see kids focusing on DIII schools in the summer after junior year and committing (for what that's worth) in the fall of senior year.

The recent data are challenging some of these points. Our son is one of the "commits to the admissions process" at an Ivy, which basically means he has a preferenced chance of admission if he meets certain academic requirements. The requirements are very high, and if you blow it all bets are off. Also, there are situations where kids who were offered spots have them pulled. This year there is one Landon senior who was a lacrosse commit to UVa, and he didn't hold up in the grades and is out.

Also, there are examples of programs that have a coaching change and rescind the prior coach's commit list. Happened at Penn State couple years ago and is happening now at Cornell. Something to be aware of as a risk.

Basically I think this whole lacrosse thing is a blessing to be able to get your kid favored to be admitted to a good school that he otherwise would not be certain to get into. The scholarship money in lacrosse is also really low...25% of tuition is considered a jackpot. So in many regards, if you can't afford an expensive college, you'll find better luck having some lacrosse coach help with admissions at a school with a great endowment. Financial aid is a better dollars possibility than lacrosse. Then there is the other side...the 15 year olds of course love the status of bei ng a "commit" and the parents love to brag on it too. Is what it is. I just think focus on securing a good college for academics and that is the most you and your kid can see out of this. Nobody is going to make millions in this sport so prepare for a future.

All good points. It is a continuously evolving (or devolving?!) process and your current experience is helpful. I'm glad you highlighted the issue of available scholarship money. For many families in this area, it is more about getting the additional help at getting into a great school like an Ivy, but there's also a lot of people who think there is a pot of gold at the end of the recruiting rainbow and that just isn't the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The commentary in the last couple of posts on "commitments" is accurate; however, in general the colleges do try to honor them out of self-interest. If the coach of a top lacrosse program is seen as not honoring those commitments, it will make it more difficult for them in future recruiting. (Lots of discussion about these sorts of things on lacrosse forums like LaxPower.)

For the Ivies, you'll see language about a recruit "committing to the admissions process" at Ivy School X. That reflects the fact that the coaches at the Ivies have less control over the admissions process (although of course they have significant input) and that the standardized test scores (not available for freshman/sophomores) will be a major part of that equation.

Finally, yes, Division III recruiting generally happens later. Much more common to see kids focusing on DIII schools in the summer after junior year and committing (for what that's worth) in the fall of senior year.

The recent data are challenging some of these points. Our son is one of the "commits to the admissions process" at an Ivy, which basically means he has a preferenced chance of admission if he meets certain academic requirements. The requirements are very high, and if you blow it all bets are off. Also, there are situations where kids who were offered spots have them pulled. This year there is one Landon senior who was a lacrosse commit to UVa, and he didn't hold up in the grades and is out.

Also, there are examples of programs that have a coaching change and rescind the prior coach's commit list. Happened at Penn State couple years ago and is happening now at Cornell. Something to be aware of as a risk.

Basically I think this whole lacrosse thing is a blessing to be able to get your kid favored to be admitted to a good school that he otherwise would not be certain to get into. The scholarship money in lacrosse is also really low...25% of tuition is considered a jackpot. So in many regards, if you can't afford an expensive college, you'll find better luck having some lacrosse coach help with admissions at a school with a great endowment. Financial aid is a better dollars possibility than lacrosse. Then there is the other side...the 15 year olds of course love the status of bei ng a "commit" and the parents love to brag on it too. Is what it is. I just think focus on securing a good college for academics and that is the most you and your kid can see out of this. Nobody is going to make millions in this sport so prepare for a future.

All good points. It is a continuously evolving (or devolving?!) process and your current experience is helpful. I'm glad you highlighted the issue of available scholarship money. For many families in this area, it is more about getting the additional help at getting into a great school like an Ivy, but there's also a lot of people who think there is a pot of gold at the end of the recruiting rainbow and that just isn't the case.

I think the process is devolving and goes earlier and worse from here. You have the right aim...get the kid to as good a school as you can with the help of lacrosse. And good luck. I hope your experience with the sleazy club lacrosse operators and others is bearable. That is the bad side of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The commentary in the last couple of posts on "commitments" is accurate; however, in general the colleges do try to honor them out of self-interest. If the coach of a top lacrosse program is seen as not honoring those commitments, it will make it more difficult for them in future recruiting. (Lots of discussion about these sorts of things on lacrosse forums like LaxPower.)

For the Ivies, you'll see language about a recruit "committing to the admissions process" at Ivy School X. That reflects the fact that the coaches at the Ivies have less control over the admissions process (although of course they have significant input) and that the standardized test scores (not available for freshman/sophomores) will be a major part of that equation.

Finally, yes, Division III recruiting generally happens later. Much more common to see kids focusing on DIII schools in the summer after junior year and committing (for what that's worth) in the fall of senior year.

On the Ivies - They operate under the Ivy League Academic Index which considers SATs and Class Rank.

Each Ivy has a different Academic Index and the Athletic Department must make sure the none of the levels are over-subscribed.

So you don't know your Academic Index Score and you don't know how many athletes they will accept at the various Academic Index levels

[Anonymous]

Who cares about lacrosse? There isn't even a viable professional league. Lacrosse should be dropped from the NCAA program as it isn't even a sport played throughout the US, let alone the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who cares about lacrosse? There isn't even a viable professional league. Lacrosse should be dropped from the NCAA program as it isn't even a sport played throughout the US, let alone the world.

Who cares about Lacrosse?

Not you, I guess.

But the schools that play it do. So much so that they are willing to leapfrog less qualified students into their freshman classes. I'll bet you care about that.

[Anonymous]

Prior poster: I actually don't care if a particular school admits poorly qualified lacrosse players, since I'm confident my son will be accepted to a top school based on academic merit. Way too much emphasis on non-revenue sports on this blog, when more intelligent conversations could occur on more important topics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Prior poster: I actually don't care if a particular school admits poorly qualified lacrosse players, since I'm confident my son will be accepted to a top school based on academic merit. Way too much emphasis on non-revenue sports on this blog, when more intelligent conversations could occur on more important topics.

You care a lot. Your kid could have a perfect GPA and not get into any high level college of his/her choice. Yale and Princeton reject thousands of HS valedictorians each year. Sports affords some advantages in admissions. And top schools don't take exceptional athletes who are bad students. There are enough exceptional athletes in every non revenue sport who are also top students. You need to have both to get the advantage a sport can give.