Holding schools accountable

[Anonymous]

This was posted on a teacher page I follow, in response to the Sandy Hook Project video. My colleagues and I know it is absolutely true that there are little to no consequences for disturbing and violent behavior in elementary schools, at the worst maybe a few day suspension and they’re right back in the classroom doing the same thing. Or they take part in behavior charts where they are rewarded for “having a good day” or after a certain number of stickers.

“Maybe schools should start being held accountable. Almost every single one of these shooters had a troubled past. Often they were given a 1-3 day holiday for some kind of disturbing behavior and then allowed back to school. I grew up in Dayton, Ohio. That shooter made rape and kill lists but was allowed back into the building. FAPE often ignores the majority of the students and caters to the troubled. Most of these kids had IEP's. The rules for how disruptive, violent, or disturbing behavior is handled in schools needs to change. The law is being abused, leaving everyone at risk.

The "real world" has consequences for non-compliant or disruptive behavior. As a system, we aren't doing these kids any favors by not addressing their issues. In fact, we are setting them up to fail.

We could start by returning pre-K and K to play based models. This is how we learn to navigate our world.

I grew up in a somewhat rural area. Numerous students had rifle racks in their trucks. Even a few teachers. We never had a shooting. This is true for a great number of places in the country. So what changed? The school system is a major part of the equation. Throw in all the meds without proper bloodwork and counseling and it's a wonder this isnt happening more often.”

[Anonymous]

It's not the schools fault it's the parents for raising a psychopath

These people are adults when they commit crimes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not the schools fault it's the parents for raising a psychopath

These people are adults when they commit crimes

Parents and schools both contribute to the problem. Parents substitute phones for human affection and interaction— yes, I’m talking to you who hand your toddler your phone in the supermarket and while out to dinner. Parents also don’t give consequences for behavior.

Schools think restorative circles and PBIS will help. They don’t.

As a teacher and a parent, I’m beyond frustrated at the lack of basic common sense.

[Anonymous]

It's been my experience that there is very little schools can do about behavior issues before middle school. In fact, our elementary school principal told me that much. A few troublemakers can disrupt an entire school, and get suspensions here and there, but nothing changes. If suspension is the only tool and it has no impact, what else do you propose the school should do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's been my experience that there is very little schools can do about behavior issues before middle school. In fact, our elementary school principal told me that much. A few troublemakers can disrupt an entire school, and get suspensions here and there, but nothing changes. If suspension is the only tool and it has no impact, what else do you propose the school should do?

Allow major privileges to be taken away. No recess. Eat lunch with an administrator in silence. No taking part in class-wide or school-wide rewards like dance parties (yes that’s a thing now, don’t even get me started). Sit isolated from the rest of the class. All these things, until you can act like you can civilly take part in society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's been my experience that there is very little schools can do about behavior issues before middle school. In fact, our elementary school principal told me that much. A few troublemakers can disrupt an entire school, and get suspensions here and there, but nothing changes. If suspension is the only tool and it has no impact, what else do you propose the school should do?

Allow major privileges to be taken away. No recess. Eat lunch with an administrator in silence. No taking part in class-wide or school-wide rewards like dance parties (yes that’s a thing now, don’t even get me started). Sit isolated from the rest of the class. All these things, until you can act like you can civilly take part in society.

Sounds like a great way to make the child feel more isolated and resentful of his pees and teachers. I would prefer advocating for counseling and parent education programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's been my experience that there is very little schools can do about behavior issues before middle school. In fact, our elementary school principal told me that much. A few troublemakers can disrupt an entire school, and get suspensions here and there, but nothing changes. If suspension is the only tool and it has no impact, what else do you propose the school should do?

Allow major privileges to be taken away. No recess. Eat lunch with an administrator in silence. No taking part in class-wide or school-wide rewards like dance parties (yes that’s a thing now, don’t even get me started). Sit isolated from the rest of the class. All these things, until you can act like you can civilly take part in society.

Sounds like a great way to make the child feel more isolated and resentful of his pees and teachers. I would prefer advocating for counseling and parent education programs.

Yeah, because that will do anything.

[Anonymous]

I’m not sure kicking them out of school would make anyone safer. Isn’t that what happened with the sandy hook shooter?

I agree parents need to be held accountable by the schools. Maybe they need to sit with their child during school if that’s what it takes. I would do it if it were my kid acting out. Or mandatory parenting classes.

Teachers and administrators cannot do the work of parenting.
Also, schools are actually safer than they were 15 years ago, by almost every measure. We have to be careful about becoming alarmist.

https://www.the74million.org/despite-focus-on-school-shootings-classroom-violence-is-on-the-decline-and-5-other-key-facts-from-a-new-federal-report-on-school-safety/

[Anonymous]

I’m not sure kicking them out of school would make anyone safer. Isn’t that what happened with the sandy hook shooter?

I agree parents need to be held accountable by the schools. Maybe they need to sit with their child during school if that’s what it takes. I would do it if it were my kid acting out. Or mandatory parenting classes.

Teachers and administrators cannot do the work of parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure kicking them out of school would make anyone safer. Isn’t that what happened with the sandy hook shooter?

I agree parents need to be held accountable by the schools. Maybe they need to sit with their child during school if that’s what it takes. I would do it if it were my kid acting out. Or mandatory parenting classes.

Teachers and administrators cannot do the work of parenting.
Also, schools are actually safer than they were 15 years ago, by almost every measure. We have to be careful about becoming alarmist.

https://www.the74million.org/despite-focus-on-school-shootings-classroom-violence-is-on-the-decline-and-5-other-key-facts-from-a-new-federal-report-on-school-safety/

I fully agree with this. I have said countless times that parents will only start to take the problem seriously once they are inconvenienced. Otherwise they don't care what happens because it's 7 hours of free babysitting. Parents will straight up tell us it's our problem between the hours of 8:45-3:30 and they don't want to be involved. They couldn't care less that other people's children are being prevented from learning due to their child's behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's been my experience that there is very little schools can do about behavior issues before middle school. In fact, our elementary school principal told me that much. A few troublemakers can disrupt an entire school, and get suspensions here and there, but nothing changes. If suspension is the only tool and it has no impact, what else do you propose the school should do?

For starters, acknowledge that there's a decent # of kids who should not be on the Gen Ed track. If a kid has serious behavior problems or has an IQ in the 60s or 70s, they aren't going to fare well in a regular classroom past about 2nd grade, even with a lot of extra support. The state has a hard-on about only letting 1% of students be eligible for VAAP (everyone else is expected to take the SOL). That's ridiculous and unfair and schools should push back. Fund more centers and pay people who work there accordingly. Also, don't roll over when parents protest restrictive classrooms or centers and let teachers start cracking down on behavior issues early on.

[Anonymous]

Parents complain and suddenly the kid who told me to suck him gets in school suspension instead of out of school, after he choked me a few weeks before that, fir which he was suspended but not on paper. Schools don’t want the statistics for behavior to look bad. They don’t want parents upset. Kids with IEPs have parents who are in denial and refuse to get counseling. Not all, but enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's been my experience that there is very little schools can do about behavior issues before middle school. In fact, our elementary school principal told me that much. A few troublemakers can disrupt an entire school, and get suspensions here and there, but nothing changes. If suspension is the only tool and it has no impact, what else do you propose the school should do?

For starters, acknowledge that there's a decent # of kids who should not be on the Gen Ed track. If a kid has serious behavior problems or has an IQ in the 60s or 70s, they aren't going to fare well in a regular classroom past about 2nd grade, even with a lot of extra support. The state has a hard-on about only letting 1% of students be eligible for VAAP (everyone else is expected to take the SOL). That's ridiculous and unfair and schools should push back. Fund more centers and pay people who work there accordingly. Also, don't roll over when parents protest restrictive classrooms or centers and let teachers start cracking down on behavior issues early on.

If you want the above to happen, you parents will need to fight back and get the laws changed. Because teachers have been so disrespected for so long, NO ONE, literally no one, listens to one word we say. So, parents, if you don't like what is happening in school, YOU will have to do the work of getting laws changed. Parents of special education students fought long and hard for the rights of their kids. If you regular ed parents want something different , you'll have to do the same.

[Anonymous]

OP, I can only assume you are not very familiar with education laws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I can only assume you are not very familiar with education laws.

Law is made by people to serve people. If a law starts to harm teacher and student, citizen should voice their concern and advocate change.