ECNL moving to school year not calendar

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid doing the minimum at BY and is middle to low performer not showing high future potential isn't going to become Gavi with a switch to SY

Your statement doesn't make sense.

SY teams would be 6 months older than BY.

What I think you were trying to say is not very good SY players shouldn't expect to become superstars just by switching to BY. Assuming they can play "down" in BY depending on what month they were born.

Overall it would be nice to have different options so parents can't claim RAE as the booyman holding their kid back or giving them an advantage.

How does SY or BY today/tomorrow change who you were/are/will be as a player, especially if you're mediocre or lesser?

It doesn't at the highest levels.

I was just playing along with the RAE/DEI im a victim disciple.

Ironically, you appear to be labeling yourself a victim with the change from BY to SY.

I am convinced that you’re the most terrified SY supporting parent on this thread. What will your excuse be when this switch doesn’t work out in your favor? Will that be the last straw? Will you pull your kid out then?

I don't actually want SY. I want RAE reduced so our adult national teams can have a larger bases to pick from and then actually have shot compete for high level international tournaments.

It’s soo funny reading all the BY parent comments…stop living through your children and let them just have fun…BY parents don’t like the switch to SY because it is to their disadvantage. Yes, we need a bigger base to pick from and more kids involved so SY is better to ID talent….

Makes no sense. Assuming you are referring to identifying talent for the highest competition levels at national or international — but these levels are BY aligned and so the base to pick from stays exactly as is now. SY does not change that base.

One of the benefits is SY (along with decreasing the number of trapped players) is increasing the number of players in the sport, as more kids stay with the sport longer since they get to play with their friends from school in their grade.

That is false.

This is being trotted out as a justification for the switch by ECNL in “solidarity” with their rec partners, USYS and AYSO.

But let’s be clear, there is zero proof that SY will increase or prolong participation. In fact there is plenty of evidence that the 13/14 year cliff is not sport or age cutoff specific. The SY switch will be an experiment in which over the next 10 years or so we can see if there is any sustained uptick in participation - but as of right now it is only a hypothesis.

And I’m pointing this out as SY supporter!

The reports disagree with you. And yes, I of course support the move to SY. You’d have to be a selfish person not to. If only to minimize trapped players. But there are also benefits to moving to SY and most of the rest of the world uses SY (those whose SY is same as BY and those whose SY is similar to the U.S.)

I’m pointing this poster out as a selfish BY honk.

Just because you want something to be so, doesn’t make it so. Are you a child?

Please, point us to the reportS that:
1) show a school year age cutoff increases participation in soccer.
2) shows that a school year age cutoff reduces the early teen sports participation cliff (70+% of kids quoting organized sports between 12&14).

And for clarification, a report is not:
-An article on a forum quoting people who theorize about the effects
-a YouTube / blog / tweet by some rando (official or not)
- a paragraph on a marketing summary that states a hypothesis based on information not contained or studied in the document it’s written

A report has empirical data illustrating the testing or study if the data.

I know what you’ll produce will either be nothing OR something that sustains your ignorance of this subject. But go on, try, maybe you’ll learn something.

Are we allowed to go back to the justification of reducing RAE on why they changed from SY to BY creating this mess in the first place?

Oh please 🙄
No one was talking about RAE in 2017 or whenever the change happened

US Soccer went to BY because the rest of the real soccer world outside England does BY.
England has programs in place to deal with RAE as a federation. We don't.

The US has access to the exact same tools and knowledge about RAE as Spain, Germany, France, the UK etc.

The issue isn’t the USSF, the issue is your local club or coach, AND the parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid doing the minimum at BY and is middle to low performer not showing high future potential isn't going to become Gavi with a switch to SY

Your statement doesn't make sense.

SY teams would be 6 months older than BY.

What I think you were trying to say is not very good SY players shouldn't expect to become superstars just by switching to BY. Assuming they can play "down" in BY depending on what month they were born.

Overall it would be nice to have different options so parents can't claim RAE as the booyman holding their kid back or giving them an advantage.

How does SY or BY today/tomorrow change who you were/are/will be as a player, especially if you're mediocre or lesser?

It doesn't at the highest levels.

I was just playing along with the RAE/DEI im a victim disciple.

Ironically, you appear to be labeling yourself a victim with the change from BY to SY.

I am convinced that you’re the most terrified SY supporting parent on this thread. What will your excuse be when this switch doesn’t work out in your favor? Will that be the last straw? Will you pull your kid out then?

I don't actually want SY. I want RAE reduced so our adult national teams can have a larger bases to pick from and then actually have shot compete for high level international tournaments.

It’s soo funny reading all the BY parent comments…stop living through your children and let them just have fun…BY parents don’t like the switch to SY because it is to their disadvantage. Yes, we need a bigger base to pick from and more kids involved so SY is better to ID talent….

Makes no sense. Assuming you are referring to identifying talent for the highest competition levels at national or international — but these levels are BY aligned and so the base to pick from stays exactly as is now. SY does not change that base.

One of the benefits is SY (along with decreasing the number of trapped players) is increasing the number of players in the sport, as more kids stay with the sport longer since they get to play with their friends from school in their grade.

You must be talking about rec soccer or little kid non-competitive soccer ? Competitive players on the best ECNL teams do not make choices to play with friends from school or in their grade.

Yes, this is in regard to soccer at the younger ages. And the more players that join soccer and stay with it (for instance, past the years in which RAE is most prevelant), the larger the pool of talented soccer players the national teams can pull from.

This sounds true!

It also is leaning heavily on the “Best Athletes don’t play soccer in the US” theory. A la “LeBron would be better than Messi if he was born in Spain.”

Too many variables, too many counterfactuals. Not enough proof.

But it sounds good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid doing the minimum at BY and is middle to low performer not showing high future potential isn't going to become Gavi with a switch to SY

Your statement doesn't make sense.

SY teams would be 6 months older than BY.

What I think you were trying to say is not very good SY players shouldn't expect to become superstars just by switching to BY. Assuming they can play "down" in BY depending on what month they were born.

Overall it would be nice to have different options so parents can't claim RAE as the booyman holding their kid back or giving them an advantage.

How does SY or BY today/tomorrow change who you were/are/will be as a player, especially if you're mediocre or lesser?

It doesn't at the highest levels.

I was just playing along with the RAE/DEI im a victim disciple.

Ironically, you appear to be labeling yourself a victim with the change from BY to SY.

I am convinced that you’re the most terrified SY supporting parent on this thread. What will your excuse be when this switch doesn’t work out in your favor? Will that be the last straw? Will you pull your kid out then?

I don't actually want SY. I want RAE reduced so our adult national teams can have a larger bases to pick from and then actually have shot compete for high level international tournaments.

Selfish people tend to assume that everyone else is just as selfish as they are. Just live and let live.

Having both SY and BY for at least mid level travel and above in most areas could be the solution for RAE that is needed. In the past few decades, youth soccer has had SY and then BY but not both at the same time. But creating a 22 months transition waiting period seems like it could have immense unintended negative consequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid doing the minimum at BY and is middle to low performer not showing high future potential isn't going to become Gavi with a switch to SY

Your statement doesn't make sense.

SY teams would be 6 months older than BY.

What I think you were trying to say is not very good SY players shouldn't expect to become superstars just by switching to BY. Assuming they can play "down" in BY depending on what month they were born.

Overall it would be nice to have different options so parents can't claim RAE as the booyman holding their kid back or giving them an advantage.

How does SY or BY today/tomorrow change who you were/are/will be as a player, especially if you're mediocre or lesser?

It doesn't at the highest levels.

I was just playing along with the RAE/DEI im a victim disciple.

Ironically, you appear to be labeling yourself a victim with the change from BY to SY.

I am convinced that you’re the most terrified SY supporting parent on this thread. What will your excuse be when this switch doesn’t work out in your favor? Will that be the last straw? Will you pull your kid out then?

I don't actually want SY. I want RAE reduced so our adult national teams can have a larger bases to pick from and then actually have shot compete for high level international tournaments.

It’s soo funny reading all the BY parent comments…stop living through your children and let them just have fun…BY parents don’t like the switch to SY because it is to their disadvantage. Yes, we need a bigger base to pick from and more kids involved so SY is better to ID talent….

Makes no sense. Assuming you are referring to identifying talent for the highest competition levels at national or international — but these levels are BY aligned and so the base to pick from stays exactly as is now. SY does not change that base.

One of the benefits is SY (along with decreasing the number of trapped players) is increasing the number of players in the sport, as more kids stay with the sport longer since they get to play with their friends from school in their grade.

You must be talking about rec soccer or little kid non-competitive soccer ? Competitive players on the best ECNL teams do not make choices to play with friends from school or in their grade.

Yes, this is in regard to soccer at the younger ages. And the more players that join soccer and stay with it (for instance, past the years in which RAE is most prevelant), the larger the pool of talented soccer players the national teams can pull from.

This sounds true!

It also is leaning heavily on the “Best Athletes don’t play soccer in the US” theory. A la “LeBron would be better than Messi if he was born in Spain.”

Too many variables, too many counterfactuals. Not enough proof.

But it sounds good.

The funny thing about that theory is that the people that use it are the same ones that complain about the US only picking the biggest fastest strongest and not developing soccer talent. It’s almost like they don’t really have a point they just like to complain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid doing the minimum at BY and is middle to low performer not showing high future potential isn't going to become Gavi with a switch to SY

Your statement doesn't make sense.

SY teams would be 6 months older than BY.

What I think you were trying to say is not very good SY players shouldn't expect to become superstars just by switching to BY. Assuming they can play "down" in BY depending on what month they were born.

Overall it would be nice to have different options so parents can't claim RAE as the booyman holding their kid back or giving them an advantage.

How does SY or BY today/tomorrow change who you were/are/will be as a player, especially if you're mediocre or lesser?

It doesn't at the highest levels.

I was just playing along with the RAE/DEI im a victim disciple.

Ironically, you appear to be labeling yourself a victim with the change from BY to SY.

I am convinced that you’re the most terrified SY supporting parent on this thread. What will your excuse be when this switch doesn’t work out in your favor? Will that be the last straw? Will you pull your kid out then?

I don't actually want SY. I want RAE reduced so our adult national teams can have a larger bases to pick from and then actually have shot compete for high level international tournaments.

It’s soo funny reading all the BY parent comments…stop living through your children and let them just have fun…BY parents don’t like the switch to SY because it is to their disadvantage. Yes, we need a bigger base to pick from and more kids involved so SY is better to ID talent….

Makes no sense. Assuming you are referring to identifying talent for the highest competition levels at national or international — but these levels are BY aligned and so the base to pick from stays exactly as is now. SY does not change that base.

One of the benefits is SY (along with decreasing the number of trapped players) is increasing the number of players in the sport, as more kids stay with the sport longer since they get to play with their friends from school in their grade.

That is false.

This is being trotted out as a justification for the switch by ECNL in “solidarity” with their rec partners, USYS and AYSO.

But let’s be clear, there is zero proof that SY will increase or prolong participation. In fact there is plenty of evidence that the 13/14 year cliff is not sport or age cutoff specific. The SY switch will be an experiment in which over the next 10 years or so we can see if there is any sustained uptick in participation - but as of right now it is only a hypothesis.

And I’m pointing this out as SY supporter!

The reports disagree with you. And yes, I of course support the move to SY. You’d have to be a selfish person not to. If only to minimize trapped players. But there are also benefits to moving to SY and most of the rest of the world uses SY (those whose SY is same as BY and those whose SY is similar to the U.S.)

I’m pointing this poster out as a selfish BY honk.

Just because you want something to be so, doesn’t make it so. Are you a child?

Please, point us to the reportS that:
1) show a school year age cutoff increases participation in soccer.
2) shows that a school year age cutoff reduces the early teen sports participation cliff (70+% of kids quoting organized sports between 12&14).

And for clarification, a report is not:
-An article on a forum quoting people who theorize about the effects
-a YouTube / blog / tweet by some rando (official or not)
- a paragraph on a marketing summary that states a hypothesis based on information not contained or studied in the document it’s written

A report has empirical data illustrating the testing or study if the data.

I know what you’ll produce will either be nothing OR something that sustains your ignorance of this subject. But go on, try, maybe you’ll learn something.

Are we allowed to go back to the justification of reducing RAE on why they changed from SY to BY creating this mess in the first place?

Oh please 🙄
No one was talking about RAE in 2017 or whenever the change happened

US Soccer went to BY because the rest of the real soccer world outside England does BY.
England has programs in place to deal with RAE as a federation. We don't.

The US has access to the exact same tools and knowledge about RAE as Spain, Germany, France, the UK etc.

The issue isn’t the USSF, the issue is your local club or coach, AND the parents.

The countries you named and Belgium etc have national youth teams for late developers to address RAE
Their federations implemented biobanding.

But they also have real soccer cultures. We don't

We don't come close to having the same tools.

How is it the parents fault?
You must mean it's pay-to-play fault

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid doing the minimum at BY and is middle to low performer not showing high future potential isn't going to become Gavi with a switch to SY

Your statement doesn't make sense.

SY teams would be 6 months older than BY.

What I think you were trying to say is not very good SY players shouldn't expect to become superstars just by switching to BY. Assuming they can play "down" in BY depending on what month they were born.

Overall it would be nice to have different options so parents can't claim RAE as the booyman holding their kid back or giving them an advantage.

How does SY or BY today/tomorrow change who you were/are/will be as a player, especially if you're mediocre or lesser?

It doesn't at the highest levels.

I was just playing along with the RAE/DEI im a victim disciple.

Ironically, you appear to be labeling yourself a victim with the change from BY to SY.

I am convinced that you’re the most terrified SY supporting parent on this thread. What will your excuse be when this switch doesn’t work out in your favor? Will that be the last straw? Will you pull your kid out then?

I don't actually want SY. I want RAE reduced so our adult national teams can have a larger bases to pick from and then actually have shot compete for high level international tournaments.

Selfish people tend to assume that everyone else is just as selfish as they are. Just live and let live.

Having both SY and BY for at least mid level travel and above in most areas could be the solution for RAE that is needed. In the past few decades, youth soccer has had SY and then BY but not both at the same time. But creating a 22 months transition waiting period seems like it could have immense unintended negative consequences.

Why would the status quo have unintended consequences?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid doing the minimum at BY and is middle to low performer not showing high future potential isn't going to become Gavi with a switch to SY

Your statement doesn't make sense.

SY teams would be 6 months older than BY.

What I think you were trying to say is not very good SY players shouldn't expect to become superstars just by switching to BY. Assuming they can play "down" in BY depending on what month they were born.

Overall it would be nice to have different options so parents can't claim RAE as the booyman holding their kid back or giving them an advantage.

How does SY or BY today/tomorrow change who you were/are/will be as a player, especially if you're mediocre or lesser?

It doesn't at the highest levels.

I was just playing along with the RAE/DEI im a victim disciple.

Ironically, you appear to be labeling yourself a victim with the change from BY to SY.

I am convinced that you’re the most terrified SY supporting parent on this thread. What will your excuse be when this switch doesn’t work out in your favor? Will that be the last straw? Will you pull your kid out then?

I don't actually want SY. I want RAE reduced so our adult national teams can have a larger bases to pick from and then actually have shot compete for high level international tournaments.

It’s soo funny reading all the BY parent comments…stop living through your children and let them just have fun…BY parents don’t like the switch to SY because it is to their disadvantage. Yes, we need a bigger base to pick from and more kids involved so SY is better to ID talent….

Makes no sense. Assuming you are referring to identifying talent for the highest competition levels at national or international — but these levels are BY aligned and so the base to pick from stays exactly as is now. SY does not change that base.

One of the benefits is SY (along with decreasing the number of trapped players) is increasing the number of players in the sport, as more kids stay with the sport longer since they get to play with their friends from school in their grade.

You must be talking about rec soccer or little kid non-competitive soccer ? Competitive players on the best ECNL teams do not make choices to play with friends from school or in their grade.

Yes, this is in regard to soccer at the younger ages. And the more players that join soccer and stay with it (for instance, past the years in which RAE is most prevelant), the larger the pool of talented soccer players the national teams can pull from.

This sounds true!

It also is leaning heavily on the “Best Athletes don’t play soccer in the US” theory. A la “LeBron would be better than Messi if he was born in Spain.”

Too many variables, too many counterfactuals. Not enough proof.

But it sounds good.

No one is born the best athlete

Soccer skills and IQ has nothing to do with how high you can jump

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid doing the minimum at BY and is middle to low performer not showing high future potential isn't going to become Gavi with a switch to SY

Your statement doesn't make sense.

SY teams would be 6 months older than BY.

What I think you were trying to say is not very good SY players shouldn't expect to become superstars just by switching to BY. Assuming they can play "down" in BY depending on what month they were born.

Overall it would be nice to have different options so parents can't claim RAE as the booyman holding their kid back or giving them an advantage.

How does SY or BY today/tomorrow change who you were/are/will be as a player, especially if you're mediocre or lesser?

It doesn't at the highest levels.

I was just playing along with the RAE/DEI im a victim disciple.

Ironically, you appear to be labeling yourself a victim with the change from BY to SY.

I am convinced that you’re the most terrified SY supporting parent on this thread. What will your excuse be when this switch doesn’t work out in your favor? Will that be the last straw? Will you pull your kid out then?

I don't actually want SY. I want RAE reduced so our adult national teams can have a larger bases to pick from and then actually have shot compete for high level international tournaments.

It’s soo funny reading all the BY parent comments…stop living through your children and let them just have fun…BY parents don’t like the switch to SY because it is to their disadvantage. Yes, we need a bigger base to pick from and more kids involved so SY is better to ID talent….

Makes no sense. Assuming you are referring to identifying talent for the highest competition levels at national or international — but these levels are BY aligned and so the base to pick from stays exactly as is now. SY does not change that base.

One of the benefits is SY (along with decreasing the number of trapped players) is increasing the number of players in the sport, as more kids stay with the sport longer since they get to play with their friends from school in their grade.

That is false.

This is being trotted out as a justification for the switch by ECNL in “solidarity” with their rec partners, USYS and AYSO.

But let’s be clear, there is zero proof that SY will increase or prolong participation. In fact there is plenty of evidence that the 13/14 year cliff is not sport or age cutoff specific. The SY switch will be an experiment in which over the next 10 years or so we can see if there is any sustained uptick in participation - but as of right now it is only a hypothesis.

And I’m pointing this out as SY supporter!

The reports disagree with you. And yes, I of course support the move to SY. You’d have to be a selfish person not to. If only to minimize trapped players. But there are also benefits to moving to SY and most of the rest of the world uses SY (those whose SY is same as BY and those whose SY is similar to the U.S.)

I’m pointing this poster out as a selfish BY honk.

Just because you want something to be so, doesn’t make it so. Are you a child?

Please, point us to the reportS that:
1) show a school year age cutoff increases participation in soccer.
2) shows that a school year age cutoff reduces the early teen sports participation cliff (70+% of kids quoting organized sports between 12&14).

And for clarification, a report is not:
-An article on a forum quoting people who theorize about the effects
-a YouTube / blog / tweet by some rando (official or not)
- a paragraph on a marketing summary that states a hypothesis based on information not contained or studied in the document it’s written

A report has empirical data illustrating the testing or study if the data.

I know what you’ll produce will either be nothing OR something that sustains your ignorance of this subject. But go on, try, maybe you’ll learn something.

I want to see real data that shows the number of trapped players who quit the sport in 8th grade.
Would love to see real data on the number of trapped players in 8th grade who found options to train and play during the 3 months of HS soccer.
What's the average number of trapped players per ECNL team?

There is data actually on quit rate. I don’t think it has the specificity of “trapped players“ for since purposes that’s really not an issue outside of higher level competition where team rosters are relatively stable.

I’ll see if I can dig up the quit rates and share.

From what I remember, quits have been stable since 1999 with a Covid increase in quits, that has reverted since ~2022

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid doing the minimum at BY and is middle to low performer not showing high future potential isn't going to become Gavi with a switch to SY

Your statement doesn't make sense.

SY teams would be 6 months older than BY.

What I think you were trying to say is not very good SY players shouldn't expect to become superstars just by switching to BY. Assuming they can play "down" in BY depending on what month they were born.

Overall it would be nice to have different options so parents can't claim RAE as the booyman holding their kid back or giving them an advantage.

How does SY or BY today/tomorrow change who you were/are/will be as a player, especially if you're mediocre or lesser?

It doesn't at the highest levels.

I was just playing along with the RAE/DEI im a victim disciple.

Ironically, you appear to be labeling yourself a victim with the change from BY to SY.

I am convinced that you’re the most terrified SY supporting parent on this thread. What will your excuse be when this switch doesn’t work out in your favor? Will that be the last straw? Will you pull your kid out then?

I don't actually want SY. I want RAE reduced so our adult national teams can have a larger bases to pick from and then actually have shot compete for high level international tournaments.

It’s soo funny reading all the BY parent comments…stop living through your children and let them just have fun…BY parents don’t like the switch to SY because it is to their disadvantage. Yes, we need a bigger base to pick from and more kids involved so SY is better to ID talent….

Makes no sense. Assuming you are referring to identifying talent for the highest competition levels at national or international — but these levels are BY aligned and so the base to pick from stays exactly as is now. SY does not change that base.

One of the benefits is SY (along with decreasing the number of trapped players) is increasing the number of players in the sport, as more kids stay with the sport longer since they get to play with their friends from school in their grade.

That is false.

This is being trotted out as a justification for the switch by ECNL in “solidarity” with their rec partners, USYS and AYSO.

But let’s be clear, there is zero proof that SY will increase or prolong participation. In fact there is plenty of evidence that the 13/14 year cliff is not sport or age cutoff specific. The SY switch will be an experiment in which over the next 10 years or so we can see if there is any sustained uptick in participation - but as of right now it is only a hypothesis.

And I’m pointing this out as SY supporter!

The reports disagree with you. And yes, I of course support the move to SY. You’d have to be a selfish person not to. If only to minimize trapped players. But there are also benefits to moving to SY and most of the rest of the world uses SY (those whose SY is same as BY and those whose SY is similar to the U.S.)

I’m pointing this poster out as a selfish BY honk.

Just because you want something to be so, doesn’t make it so. Are you a child?

Please, point us to the reportS that:
1) show a school year age cutoff increases participation in soccer.
2) shows that a school year age cutoff reduces the early teen sports participation cliff (70+% of kids quoting organized sports between 12&14).

And for clarification, a report is not:
-An article on a forum quoting people who theorize about the effects
-a YouTube / blog / tweet by some rando (official or not)
- a paragraph on a marketing summary that states a hypothesis based on information not contained or studied in the document it’s written

A report has empirical data illustrating the testing or study if the data.

I know what you’ll produce will either be nothing OR something that sustains your ignorance of this subject. But go on, try, maybe you’ll learn something.

I want to see real data that shows the number of trapped players who quit the sport in 8th grade.
Would love to see real data on the number of trapped players in 8th grade who found options to train and play during the 3 months of HS soccer.
What's the average number of trapped players per ECNL team?

There is data actually on quit rate. I don’t think it has the specificity of “trapped players“ for since purposes that’s really not an issue outside of higher level competition where team rosters are relatively stable.

I’ll see if I can dig up the quit rates and share.

From what I remember, quits have been stable since 1999 with a Covid increase in quits, that has reverted since ~2022

Thought this whole thing was about solving a massive trapped player problem

(Are there more than even 5 trapped boys in all of Maryland playing in ECNL that are currently in 8th grade?)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid doing the minimum at BY and is middle to low performer not showing high future potential isn't going to become Gavi with a switch to SY

Your statement doesn't make sense.

SY teams would be 6 months older than BY.

What I think you were trying to say is not very good SY players shouldn't expect to become superstars just by switching to BY. Assuming they can play "down" in BY depending on what month they were born.

Overall it would be nice to have different options so parents can't claim RAE as the booyman holding their kid back or giving them an advantage.

How does SY or BY today/tomorrow change who you were/are/will be as a player, especially if you're mediocre or lesser?

It doesn't at the highest levels.

I was just playing along with the RAE/DEI im a victim disciple.

Ironically, you appear to be labeling yourself a victim with the change from BY to SY.

I am convinced that you’re the most terrified SY supporting parent on this thread. What will your excuse be when this switch doesn’t work out in your favor? Will that be the last straw? Will you pull your kid out then?

I don't actually want SY. I want RAE reduced so our adult national teams can have a larger bases to pick from and then actually have shot compete for high level international tournaments.

It’s soo funny reading all the BY parent comments…stop living through your children and let them just have fun…BY parents don’t like the switch to SY because it is to their disadvantage. Yes, we need a bigger base to pick from and more kids involved so SY is better to ID talent….

Makes no sense. Assuming you are referring to identifying talent for the highest competition levels at national or international — but these levels are BY aligned and so the base to pick from stays exactly as is now. SY does not change that base.

One of the benefits is SY (along with decreasing the number of trapped players) is increasing the number of players in the sport, as more kids stay with the sport longer since they get to play with their friends from school in their grade.

That is false.

This is being trotted out as a justification for the switch by ECNL in “solidarity” with their rec partners, USYS and AYSO.

But let’s be clear, there is zero proof that SY will increase or prolong participation. In fact there is plenty of evidence that the 13/14 year cliff is not sport or age cutoff specific. The SY switch will be an experiment in which over the next 10 years or so we can see if there is any sustained uptick in participation - but as of right now it is only a hypothesis.

And I’m pointing this out as SY supporter!

The reports disagree with you. And yes, I of course support the move to SY. You’d have to be a selfish person not to. If only to minimize trapped players. But there are also benefits to moving to SY and most of the rest of the world uses SY (those whose SY is same as BY and those whose SY is similar to the U.S.)

I’m pointing this poster out as a selfish BY honk.

Just because you want something to be so, doesn’t make it so. Are you a child?

Please, point us to the reportS that:
1) show a school year age cutoff increases participation in soccer.
2) shows that a school year age cutoff reduces the early teen sports participation cliff (70+% of kids quoting organized sports between 12&14).

And for clarification, a report is not:
-An article on a forum quoting people who theorize about the effects
-a YouTube / blog / tweet by some rando (official or not)
- a paragraph on a marketing summary that states a hypothesis based on information not contained or studied in the document it’s written

A report has empirical data illustrating the testing or study if the data.

I know what you’ll produce will either be nothing OR something that sustains your ignorance of this subject. But go on, try, maybe you’ll learn something.

Are we allowed to go back to the justification of reducing RAE on why they changed from SY to BY creating this mess in the first place?

Oh please 🙄
No one was talking about RAE in 2017 or whenever the change happened

US Soccer went to BY because the rest of the real soccer world outside England does BY.
England has programs in place to deal with RAE as a federation. We don't.

Seriously that was absolutely the justification. https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2017/08/five-things-to-know-about-birth-year-registration

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid doing the minimum at BY and is middle to low performer not showing high future potential isn't going to become Gavi with a switch to SY

Your statement doesn't make sense.

SY teams would be 6 months older than BY.

What I think you were trying to say is not very good SY players shouldn't expect to become superstars just by switching to BY. Assuming they can play "down" in BY depending on what month they were born.

Overall it would be nice to have different options so parents can't claim RAE as the booyman holding their kid back or giving them an advantage.

How does SY or BY today/tomorrow change who you were/are/will be as a player, especially if you're mediocre or lesser?

It doesn't at the highest levels.

I was just playing along with the RAE/DEI im a victim disciple.

Ironically, you appear to be labeling yourself a victim with the change from BY to SY.

I am convinced that you’re the most terrified SY supporting parent on this thread. What will your excuse be when this switch doesn’t work out in your favor? Will that be the last straw? Will you pull your kid out then?

I don't actually want SY. I want RAE reduced so our adult national teams can have a larger bases to pick from and then actually have shot compete for high level international tournaments.

It’s soo funny reading all the BY parent comments…stop living through your children and let them just have fun…BY parents don’t like the switch to SY because it is to their disadvantage. Yes, we need a bigger base to pick from and more kids involved so SY is better to ID talent….

Makes no sense. Assuming you are referring to identifying talent for the highest competition levels at national or international — but these levels are BY aligned and so the base to pick from stays exactly as is now. SY does not change that base.

One of the benefits is SY (along with decreasing the number of trapped players) is increasing the number of players in the sport, as more kids stay with the sport longer since they get to play with their friends from school in their grade.

That is false.

This is being trotted out as a justification for the switch by ECNL in “solidarity” with their rec partners, USYS and AYSO.

But let’s be clear, there is zero proof that SY will increase or prolong participation. In fact there is plenty of evidence that the 13/14 year cliff is not sport or age cutoff specific. The SY switch will be an experiment in which over the next 10 years or so we can see if there is any sustained uptick in participation - but as of right now it is only a hypothesis.

And I’m pointing this out as SY supporter!

The reports disagree with you. And yes, I of course support the move to SY. You’d have to be a selfish person not to. If only to minimize trapped players. But there are also benefits to moving to SY and most of the rest of the world uses SY (those whose SY is same as BY and those whose SY is similar to the U.S.)

I’m pointing this poster out as a selfish BY honk.

Just because you want something to be so, doesn’t make it so. Are you a child?

Please, point us to the reportS that:
1) show a school year age cutoff increases participation in soccer.
2) shows that a school year age cutoff reduces the early teen sports participation cliff (70+% of kids quoting organized sports between 12&14).

And for clarification, a report is not:
-An article on a forum quoting people who theorize about the effects
-a YouTube / blog / tweet by some rando (official or not)
- a paragraph on a marketing summary that states a hypothesis based on information not contained or studied in the document it’s written

A report has empirical data illustrating the testing or study if the data.

I know what you’ll produce will either be nothing OR something that sustains your ignorance of this subject. But go on, try, maybe you’ll learn something.

Are we allowed to go back to the justification of reducing RAE on why they changed from SY to BY creating this mess in the first place?

Oh please 🙄
No one was talking about RAE in 2017 or whenever the change happened

US Soccer went to BY because the rest of the real soccer world outside England does BY.
England has programs in place to deal with RAE as a federation. We don't.

Seriously that was absolutely the justification. https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2017/08/five-things-to-know-about-birth-year-registration

Exactly, our U-17 teams were getting beat in international competition because they were heavy q3-q4. Maybe the US just sucks at identifying talent, hence the ham fisted move to BY to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid doing the minimum at BY and is middle to low performer not showing high future potential isn't going to become Gavi with a switch to SY

Your statement doesn't make sense.

SY teams would be 6 months older than BY.

What I think you were trying to say is not very good SY players shouldn't expect to become superstars just by switching to BY. Assuming they can play "down" in BY depending on what month they were born.

Overall it would be nice to have different options so parents can't claim RAE as the booyman holding their kid back or giving them an advantage.

How does SY or BY today/tomorrow change who you were/are/will be as a player, especially if you're mediocre or lesser?

It doesn't at the highest levels.

I was just playing along with the RAE/DEI im a victim disciple.

Ironically, you appear to be labeling yourself a victim with the change from BY to SY.

I am convinced that you’re the most terrified SY supporting parent on this thread. What will your excuse be when this switch doesn’t work out in your favor? Will that be the last straw? Will you pull your kid out then?

I don't actually want SY. I want RAE reduced so our adult national teams can have a larger bases to pick from and then actually have shot compete for high level international tournaments.

It’s soo funny reading all the BY parent comments…stop living through your children and let them just have fun…BY parents don’t like the switch to SY because it is to their disadvantage. Yes, we need a bigger base to pick from and more kids involved so SY is better to ID talent….

Makes no sense. Assuming you are referring to identifying talent for the highest competition levels at national or international — but these levels are BY aligned and so the base to pick from stays exactly as is now. SY does not change that base.

One of the benefits is SY (along with decreasing the number of trapped players) is increasing the number of players in the sport, as more kids stay with the sport longer since they get to play with their friends from school in their grade.

That is false.

This is being trotted out as a justification for the switch by ECNL in “solidarity” with their rec partners, USYS and AYSO.

But let’s be clear, there is zero proof that SY will increase or prolong participation. In fact there is plenty of evidence that the 13/14 year cliff is not sport or age cutoff specific. The SY switch will be an experiment in which over the next 10 years or so we can see if there is any sustained uptick in participation - but as of right now it is only a hypothesis.

And I’m pointing this out as SY supporter!

The reports disagree with you. And yes, I of course support the move to SY. You’d have to be a selfish person not to. If only to minimize trapped players. But there are also benefits to moving to SY and most of the rest of the world uses SY (those whose SY is same as BY and those whose SY is similar to the U.S.)

I’m pointing this poster out as a selfish BY honk.

Just because you want something to be so, doesn’t make it so. Are you a child?

Please, point us to the reportS that:
1) show a school year age cutoff increases participation in soccer.
2) shows that a school year age cutoff reduces the early teen sports participation cliff (70+% of kids quoting organized sports between 12&14).

And for clarification, a report is not:
-An article on a forum quoting people who theorize about the effects
-a YouTube / blog / tweet by some rando (official or not)
- a paragraph on a marketing summary that states a hypothesis based on information not contained or studied in the document it’s written

A report has empirical data illustrating the testing or study if the data.

I know what you’ll produce will either be nothing OR something that sustains your ignorance of this subject. But go on, try, maybe you’ll learn something.

Are we allowed to go back to the justification of reducing RAE on why they changed from SY to BY creating this mess in the first place?

Oh please 🙄
No one was talking about RAE in 2017 or whenever the change happened

US Soccer went to BY because the rest of the real soccer world outside England does BY.
England has programs in place to deal with RAE as a federation. We don't.

Seriously that was absolutely the justification. https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2017/08/five-things-to-know-about-birth-year-registration

Shh don't let facts get in the way of the RAE narrative some parent has built in their head.

REA DOES NOT MATTER at the highest levels. You have players with ridiculous natural ability/talent playing up 1-2 years. These are the ones that have a shot at playing professionally or for a national team. Until you've seen natural talent of this level I can see how parents might think that if their kid just trained harder or paid their club to have a higher soccer iq matters. It doesn't when unicorns are bigger faster and often younger.

Here's an example, on my kids team there is a very well known pro sports players kid. She's playing 2 years up and her natural abilities are off the charts. The coaches all love her and so does the national team coaches. REA has nothing to do with her crazy level of natural talent. These are the type of players that play professionally. Don't kid yourself. The month or year your kid was born in don't matter when the have freakish natural ability.

It's hard to explain this to a littles rec parent that has no idea how things work at the highest levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid doing the minimum at BY and is middle to low performer not showing high future potential isn't going to become Gavi with a switch to SY

Your statement doesn't make sense.

SY teams would be 6 months older than BY.

What I think you were trying to say is not very good SY players shouldn't expect to become superstars just by switching to BY. Assuming they can play "down" in BY depending on what month they were born.

Overall it would be nice to have different options so parents can't claim RAE as the booyman holding their kid back or giving them an advantage.

How does SY or BY today/tomorrow change who you were/are/will be as a player, especially if you're mediocre or lesser?

It doesn't at the highest levels.

I was just playing along with the RAE/DEI im a victim disciple.

Ironically, you appear to be labeling yourself a victim with the change from BY to SY.

I am convinced that you’re the most terrified SY supporting parent on this thread. What will your excuse be when this switch doesn’t work out in your favor? Will that be the last straw? Will you pull your kid out then?

I don't actually want SY. I want RAE reduced so our adult national teams can have a larger bases to pick from and then actually have shot compete for high level international tournaments.

It’s soo funny reading all the BY parent comments…stop living through your children and let them just have fun…BY parents don’t like the switch to SY because it is to their disadvantage. Yes, we need a bigger base to pick from and more kids involved so SY is better to ID talent….

Makes no sense. Assuming you are referring to identifying talent for the highest competition levels at national or international — but these levels are BY aligned and so the base to pick from stays exactly as is now. SY does not change that base.

One of the benefits is SY (along with decreasing the number of trapped players) is increasing the number of players in the sport, as more kids stay with the sport longer since they get to play with their friends from school in their grade.

That is false.

This is being trotted out as a justification for the switch by ECNL in “solidarity” with their rec partners, USYS and AYSO.

But let’s be clear, there is zero proof that SY will increase or prolong participation. In fact there is plenty of evidence that the 13/14 year cliff is not sport or age cutoff specific. The SY switch will be an experiment in which over the next 10 years or so we can see if there is any sustained uptick in participation - but as of right now it is only a hypothesis.

And I’m pointing this out as SY supporter!

The reports disagree with you. And yes, I of course support the move to SY. You’d have to be a selfish person not to. If only to minimize trapped players. But there are also benefits to moving to SY and most of the rest of the world uses SY (those whose SY is same as BY and those whose SY is similar to the U.S.)

I’m pointing this poster out as a selfish BY honk.

Just because you want something to be so, doesn’t make it so. Are you a child?

Please, point us to the reportS that:
1) show a school year age cutoff increases participation in soccer.
2) shows that a school year age cutoff reduces the early teen sports participation cliff (70+% of kids quoting organized sports between 12&14).

And for clarification, a report is not:
-An article on a forum quoting people who theorize about the effects
-a YouTube / blog / tweet by some rando (official or not)
- a paragraph on a marketing summary that states a hypothesis based on information not contained or studied in the document it’s written

A report has empirical data illustrating the testing or study if the data.

I know what you’ll produce will either be nothing OR something that sustains your ignorance of this subject. But go on, try, maybe you’ll learn something.

Are we allowed to go back to the justification of reducing RAE on why they changed from SY to BY creating this mess in the first place?

Oh please 🙄
No one was talking about RAE in 2017 or whenever the change happened

US Soccer went to BY because the rest of the real soccer world outside England does BY.
England has programs in place to deal with RAE as a federation. We don't.

Seriously that was absolutely the justification. https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2017/08/five-things-to-know-about-birth-year-registration

Shh don't let facts get in the way of the RAE narrative some parent has built in their head.

REA DOES NOT MATTER at the highest levels. You have players with ridiculous natural ability/talent playing up 1-2 years. These are the ones that have a shot at playing professionally or for a national team. Until you've seen natural talent of this level I can see how parents might think that if their kid just trained harder or paid their club to have a higher soccer iq matters. It doesn't when unicorns are bigger faster and often younger.

Here's an example, on my kids team there is a very well known pro sports players kid. She's playing 2 years up and her natural abilities are off the charts. The coaches all love her and so does the national team coaches. REA has nothing to do with her crazy level of natural talent. These are the type of players that play professionally. Don't kid yourself. The month or year your kid was born in don't matter when the have freakish natural ability.

It's hard to explain this to a littles rec parent that has no idea how things work at the highest levels.

Good talent identification is looking at the parents and the kids genetic potential. You can see from a young age that some kids just move different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kid doing the minimum at BY and is middle to low performer not showing high future potential isn't going to become Gavi with a switch to SY

Your statement doesn't make sense.

SY teams would be 6 months older than BY.

What I think you were trying to say is not very good SY players shouldn't expect to become superstars just by switching to BY. Assuming they can play "down" in BY depending on what month they were born.

Overall it would be nice to have different options so parents can't claim RAE as the booyman holding their kid back or giving them an advantage.

How does SY or BY today/tomorrow change who you were/are/will be as a player, especially if you're mediocre or lesser?

It doesn't at the highest levels.

I was just playing along with the RAE/DEI im a victim disciple.

Ironically, you appear to be labeling yourself a victim with the change from BY to SY.

I am convinced that you’re the most terrified SY supporting parent on this thread. What will your excuse be when this switch doesn’t work out in your favor? Will that be the last straw? Will you pull your kid out then?

I don't actually want SY. I want RAE reduced so our adult national teams can have a larger bases to pick from and then actually have shot compete for high level international tournaments.

It’s soo funny reading all the BY parent comments…stop living through your children and let them just have fun…BY parents don’t like the switch to SY because it is to their disadvantage. Yes, we need a bigger base to pick from and more kids involved so SY is better to ID talent….

Makes no sense. Assuming you are referring to identifying talent for the highest competition levels at national or international — but these levels are BY aligned and so the base to pick from stays exactly as is now. SY does not change that base.

One of the benefits is SY (along with decreasing the number of trapped players) is increasing the number of players in the sport, as more kids stay with the sport longer since they get to play with their friends from school in their grade.

That is false.

This is being trotted out as a justification for the switch by ECNL in “solidarity” with their rec partners, USYS and AYSO.

But let’s be clear, there is zero proof that SY will increase or prolong participation. In fact there is plenty of evidence that the 13/14 year cliff is not sport or age cutoff specific. The SY switch will be an experiment in which over the next 10 years or so we can see if there is any sustained uptick in participation - but as of right now it is only a hypothesis.

And I’m pointing this out as SY supporter!

The reports disagree with you. And yes, I of course support the move to SY. You’d have to be a selfish person not to. If only to minimize trapped players. But there are also benefits to moving to SY and most of the rest of the world uses SY (those whose SY is same as BY and those whose SY is similar to the U.S.)

I’m pointing this poster out as a selfish BY honk.

Just because you want something to be so, doesn’t make it so. Are you a child?

Please, point us to the reportS that:
1) show a school year age cutoff increases participation in soccer.
2) shows that a school year age cutoff reduces the early teen sports participation cliff (70+% of kids quoting organized sports between 12&14).

And for clarification, a report is not:
-An article on a forum quoting people who theorize about the effects
-a YouTube / blog / tweet by some rando (official or not)
- a paragraph on a marketing summary that states a hypothesis based on information not contained or studied in the document it’s written

A report has empirical data illustrating the testing or study if the data.

I know what you’ll produce will either be nothing OR something that sustains your ignorance of this subject. But go on, try, maybe you’ll learn something.

Are we allowed to go back to the justification of reducing RAE on why they changed from SY to BY creating this mess in the first place?

Oh please 🙄
No one was talking about RAE in 2017 or whenever the change happened

US Soccer went to BY because the rest of the real soccer world outside England does BY.
England has programs in place to deal with RAE as a federation. We don't.

Seriously that was absolutely the justification. https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2017/08/five-things-to-know-about-birth-year-registration

Shh don't let facts get in the way of the RAE narrative some parent has built in their head.

REA DOES NOT MATTER at the highest levels. You have players with ridiculous natural ability/talent playing up 1-2 years. These are the ones that have a shot at playing professionally or for a national team. Until you've seen natural talent of this level I can see how parents might think that if their kid just trained harder or paid their club to have a higher soccer iq matters. It doesn't when unicorns are bigger faster and often younger.

Here's an example, on my kids team there is a very well known pro sports players kid. She's playing 2 years up and her natural abilities are off the charts. The coaches all love her and so does the national team coaches. REA has nothing to do with her crazy level of natural talent. These are the type of players that play professionally. Don't kid yourself. The month or year your kid was born in don't matter when the have freakish natural ability.

It's hard to explain this to a littles rec parent that has no idea how things work at the highest levels.

Ignorance shouted from the rooftop.

If YOU knew everything about the impacts of RAE, then you would know the studies All show and conclude that the highest levels at older ages are impacted by the late developers who never get selected for A teams and quit the sport, or are stuck on B teams not getting the highest levels of coaching and competition.

RAE is not just about early vs late developers.
It's about good late developers not getting selected at younger ages.
Hence people like Kevin De Bruyne being biobanded.

[Anonymous]

Who is the pro players kid?