Women’s v. Men’s pay

[Anonymous]

This topic had to be started given all the media coverage on this item. Should the players in the USWNT be paid the same as the players on the USMNT?

First let’s break down the arguments.

1) The question is separate from men’s pro club salaries v. women’s pro club salaries. The disparity here is market driven. More people watch men’s pro soccer live and on tv/streaming, buy their jerseys, sponsor their matches, etc. Hence the higher men’s salary. No argument there.

2) The question is also separate from non-soccer earnings from endorsements and other promotions. There it is much more about looks, personality, and popularity. For instance Alex M. makes a lot more in this arena than the vast majority of US pro men. No one will argue that she should give up her higher earnings in this area to others to be “equal,” and vice versa.

3) So that leaves us with USNT compensation. I believe that for participating on the USNT all players, men or women should be paid equal compensation per game and training session with expenses covered. The base pay should be nominal and should not depend upon results. All bonus money paid to USSF and all other revenues generated by USSF for USNT team games above and beyond that to cover their base pay and expenses should go into a youth development fund to help promote and pay for soccer for under privileged kids and areas. This will help reduce the pay-to-play barriers in the US for poor youths and will drive a more altruistic motive for playing on and succeeding as a USNT. The better the teams perform the more money there is for our nation’s youth. If some pro players don’t won’t to play for the NT because the comp is not high enough, that is fine, we don’t want your self-interested attitude anyhow. USSF would also pressure clubs to not restrict their best pros to play for USNT due to fear of injury or schedule conflicts. Most wouldn’t anyhow as they enjoy the free marketing. Why do I believe in this approach? Because playing for your country is not about you or about making a cushy salary, it is about representing and sacrificing for your country and providing something back to the younger generation.

[Anonymous]

Everyone gets paid what they demand. If they don’t demand much because they want the money to go to youth programs it will be inhaled by FIFA corruption. And frankly that’s where it’s mostly going either way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone gets paid what they demand. If they don’t demand much because they want the money to go to youth programs it will be inhaled by FIFA corruption. And frankly that’s where it’s mostly going either way.

Woman here. While this is true, they've done studies that show that even women who demand higher pay get it less often than when men demand higher pay. So that's not a panacea.

[Anonymous]

You know most equal pay arguments in sports are % of revenue which is how men ‘s contracts are written.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This topic had to be started given all the media coverage on this item. Should the players in the USWNT be paid the same as the players on the USMNT?

First let’s break down the arguments.

1) The question is separate from men’s pro club salaries v. women’s pro club salaries. The disparity here is market driven. More people watch men’s pro soccer live and on tv/streaming, buy their jerseys, sponsor their matches, etc. Hence the higher men’s salary. No argument there.

2) The question is also separate from non-soccer earnings from endorsements and other promotions. There it is much more about looks, personality, and popularity. For instance Alex M. makes a lot more in this arena than the vast majority of US pro men. No one will argue that she should give up her higher earnings in this area to others to be “equal,” and vice versa.

3) So that leaves us with USNT compensation. I believe that for participating on the USNT all players, men or women should be paid equal compensation per game and training session with expenses covered. The base pay should be nominal and should not depend upon results. All bonus money paid to USSF and all other revenues generated by USSF for USNT team games above and beyond that to cover their base pay and expenses should go into a youth development fund to help promote and pay for soccer for under privileged kids and areas. This will help reduce the pay-to-play barriers in the US for poor youths and will drive a more altruistic motive for playing on and succeeding as a USNT. The better the teams perform the more money there is for our nation’s youth. If some pro players don’t won’t to play for the NT because the comp is not high enough, that is fine, we don’t want your self-interested attitude anyhow. USSF would also pressure clubs to not restrict their best pros to play for USNT due to fear of injury or schedule conflicts. Most wouldn’t anyhow as they enjoy the free marketing. Why do I believe in this approach? Because playing for your country is not about you or about making a cushy salary, it is about representing and sacrificing for your country and providing something back to the younger generation.

As far as National Team salary goes the women have both performed better and generated more money for Us Soccer. They should be paid no less then the men’s National Team members.

As far as salaries for professional players in league games (NWSL) compared to men/MLS, well they need to draw more fans than a Texas high school football game. That is on US. So go to Spirit games, lots of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You know most equal pay arguments in sports are % of revenue which is how men ‘s contracts are written.

See point #2 above and get back on topic.

[Anonymous]

The national team on both sides (men and women) have a players union and plenty of resources to hire the best negotiators. If their negotiators are doing a bad job, blame the negotiators.

In short, WNT opted for a fixed base salary regardless of winning is losing. MNT opted to be paid for performance.

Soccer players aren't the "little guy" like some factory worker making minimum wage. They have plenty of resources to hire negotiators and ensure they get the best deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This topic had to be started given all the media coverage on this item. Should the players in the USWNT be paid the same as the players on the USMNT?

First let’s break down the arguments.

1) The question is separate from men’s pro club salaries v. women’s pro club salaries. The disparity here is market driven. More people watch men’s pro soccer live and on tv/streaming, buy their jerseys, sponsor their matches, etc. Hence the higher men’s salary. No argument there.

2) The question is also separate from non-soccer earnings from endorsements and other promotions. There it is much more about looks, personality, and popularity. For instance Alex M. makes a lot more in this arena than the vast majority of US pro men. No one will argue that she should give up her higher earnings in this area to others to be “equal,” and vice versa.

3) So that leaves us with USNT compensation. I believe that for participating on the USNT all players, men or women should be paid equal compensation per game and training session with expenses covered. The base pay should be nominal and should not depend upon results. All bonus money paid to USSF and all other revenues generated by USSF for USNT team games above and beyond that to cover their base pay and expenses should go into a youth development fund to help promote and pay for soccer for under privileged kids and areas. This will help reduce the pay-to-play barriers in the US for poor youths and will drive a more altruistic motive for playing on and succeeding as a USNT. The better the teams perform the more money there is for our nation’s youth. If some pro players don’t won’t to play for the NT because the comp is not high enough, that is fine, we don’t want your self-interested attitude anyhow. USSF would also pressure clubs to not restrict their best pros to play for USNT due to fear of injury or schedule conflicts. Most wouldn’t anyhow as they enjoy the free marketing. Why do I believe in this approach? Because playing for your country is not about you or about making a cushy salary, it is about representing and sacrificing for your country and providing something back to the younger generation.

So #3 will not happen. The USNT is more like the Olympics. The vast majority of viewers are not soccer fans but fans of event. So this allows an opportunity to get endorsements deal. The players make $250k if they win and estimated endorsement deals in the range of a million. The NWSL divides $315k between all players on their team(20 min to max of 22 players). There are a few non-allocated players(national team members like Rapinio, etc) and these players get a salary from the USNT. It seems they do not publish these numbers. You can get an idea of the money paid out. If you refuse the national team you do not get the money.

U.S. national team players, as well as the league’s small front office. U.S. Soccer public records list NWSL expenses at $2,390,703 for fiscal year 2017.

https://equalizersoccer.com/2018/07/13/non-allocated-players-at-center-of-growing-nwsl-uswnt-tension/

[Anonymous]

The women are paid according to the terms of the collective bargaining agreement they negotiated for in 2017. The women had one year where their revenue was higher than the men. Most every other year the revenue from the men is 4x greater. The women receive a larger share of the revenue they generate than the men. This lawsuit is not real, it is a tool to use when they renegotiate their CBA next year. I hope they make more! But to argue their pay is not fair compared to men is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know most equal pay arguments in sports are % of revenue which is how men ‘s contracts are written.

See point #2 above and get back on topic.

You clearly don’t understand the issue if you think #2 covers it and this is off topic.

[Anonymous]

The advertising was pitiful leading up to the games. That affects revenue. If it were not for the lawsuit I’m not sure anybody would have known about the 1st games.

[Anonymous]

Good twitter thread from McMegan

https://twitter.com/asymmetricinfo/status/1148940254885425153

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The women are paid according to the terms of the collective bargaining agreement they negotiated for in 2017. The women had one year where their revenue was higher than the men. Most every other year the revenue from the men is 4x greater. The women receive a larger share of the revenue they generate than the men. This lawsuit is not real, it is a tool to use when they renegotiate their CBA next year. I hope they make more! But to argue their pay is not fair compared to men is ridiculous.

This.

[Anonymous]

Reading the actual complaint by USWNT players is very instructive:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5763925-C-D-Cal-2-19-Cv-01717-1-0.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reading the actual complaint by USWNT players is very instructive:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5763925-C-D-Cal-2-19-Cv-01717-1-0.html

Interesting that the women get paid more vs the men because US soccer does not pay the men. It seems the men would only get more money if they won the World Cup(or advanced the QF). I guess this is just a negotiating tactic because the NWSL would fold without those payments to the big name women players.