If you are wealthy would you send your kids to a W school over private?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure why a PP feels so defensive about MCPS. MCPS class sizes are ridiculously too large for students to receive individualized instruction. MCPS is demoralized by the demands due to the staffing shortages, unaddressed misconduct by superiors, and low pay.Finally, private schools returned to in person instruction for the 2020-2021 school year while MCPS remained online. Private schools never adjusted their curriculum during the pandemic and thus, students didn’t experience learning loss like their MCPS peers.

Keep fooling yourself that MCPS is superior school system. MCPS is the free option, not the academically superior option. Like another PP said, in life you get what you pay for.

While I certainly recognize the problems facing MCPS and other public school districts, private schools are not superior for everyone. DD's best friend hated their private. Other parents would kill to have their kids there but for her it was not really challenging, not enough smart kids, not enough ideas. She felt the classroom discussion was always mediocre because only a small percentage of kids were actually smart and motivated. She was bored. Most of them came from similar backgrounds. In her public magnet the entire class is smart and motivated and the perspectives are more eye-opening. FWIW, DD is very smart and likes the private.

+1 Can't have too many diverse opinions when the class sizes are super small, and where being "different" could mean being a social outcast. Speaking of which, not a lot of social groups to choose from. If you are on the oust with your friend group, you don't have a lot of other friend groups to choose from in a small private. That could be a death sentence for a kid who is not popular or just different.

I understand the desire for small class sizes and more focused students in the class. Those would be good reasons to put your kid in private.

I feel like you all think these schools have like 20 kids in a grade. Most top private schools have grades with 50-60 kids. Not a 2,000 person MCPS high school, but also not minuscule.

Bullis has around 100 per grade in high school. The largest class for my child had 20 students. The smallest had 10.

One huge difference that allowed diversity in the discussions was that all students are expected to actively participate. It’s a mandatory part of the class grade.

My child said that at Hoover and Churchill he could sit in the back of the classroom and tune out. The same students answered teacher questions so everyone else could be quiet if they wanted.

At Bullis, some classes were taught in a circle in which everyone could see each other. My child said he had to do the homework and follow along in class because he would be asked questions by the teacher several times in class. He didn’t want to be unprepared in front of his peers.

For those who have a preconceived idea of the types of students who attend private schools, I would encourage you to tour campus on a school day and compare the diversity to a W school. Students wear uniforms so there’s no popularity contest based on clothes. Bullying of others is a dismissible offense so my son thought as a transfer student he was more welcomed there than Churchill.

I will just leave it at this - Sure, there are very wealthy students at Bullis. It’s in Potomac after all. However, my son has also made friends from good families with limited means so they lived in neighborhoods where poverty is an issue and there is gun violence in their neighborhoods. Bullis offers a far better education than their local public schools, with transportation and scholarships so they travel long distances for the opportunities. Bullis has a wonderful counseling department that has hands on help so students whose parents don’t understand the college search process are not left to miss out on scholarships and admission deadlines. Churchill has only one College and Career counselor for about 500 students so there is very little help with the process. One my child’s friends described in an English class the first time a white adult at a public park called him the N word. A very important lesson about the power and hurt words can cause. Students feel even in the small classes that Bullis has that it is safe place to share without judgement. For a school that gained national news attention for N Word cards, I don’t think this friend would have shared the same experience in a class discussion at Churchill.

yes, but the point is that most kids at these expensive private schools will not have too divergent opinions. Most of them come from the same SES/income background. Hard to have a discussion with divergent opinions when most kids are from the same class background.

And you think it’s different at W schools with <5% FARMS and all the kids from one geographic area? Give me a fking break.

There are more lower income kids at W schools than at privates, and there are more kids, period. So yes, a public school, even a wealthyish one, will have more divergent view points than a private one where the school gatekeeps who is in and who is not.

<5% FARMS vs 20% on financial aid.

Did someone really type this as a reasonable response??? Private schools give financial aid to families w/ Sox figure incomes.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure why a PP feels so defensive about MCPS. MCPS class sizes are ridiculously too large for students to receive individualized instruction. MCPS is demoralized by the demands due to the staffing shortages, unaddressed misconduct by superiors, and low pay.Finally, private schools returned to in person instruction for the 2020-2021 school year while MCPS remained online. Private schools never adjusted their curriculum during the pandemic and thus, students didn’t experience learning loss like their MCPS peers.

Keep fooling yourself that MCPS is superior school system. MCPS is the free option, not the academically superior option. Like another PP said, in life you get what you pay for.

While I certainly recognize the problems facing MCPS and other public school districts, private schools are not superior for everyone. DD's best friend hated their private. Other parents would kill to have their kids there but for her it was not really challenging, not enough smart kids, not enough ideas. She felt the classroom discussion was always mediocre because only a small percentage of kids were actually smart and motivated. She was bored. Most of them came from similar backgrounds. In her public magnet the entire class is smart and motivated and the perspectives are more eye-opening. FWIW, DD is very smart and likes the private.

+1 Can't have too many diverse opinions when the class sizes are super small, and where being "different" could mean being a social outcast. Speaking of which, not a lot of social groups to choose from. If you are on the oust with your friend group, you don't have a lot of other friend groups to choose from in a small private. That could be a death sentence for a kid who is not popular or just different.

I understand the desire for small class sizes and more focused students in the class. Those would be good reasons to put your kid in private.

I feel like you all think these schools have like 20 kids in a grade. Most top private schools have grades with 50-60 kids. Not a 2,000 person MCPS high school, but also not minuscule.

Bullis has around 100 per grade in high school. The largest class for my child had 20 students. The smallest had 10.

One huge difference that allowed diversity in the discussions was that all students are expected to actively participate. It’s a mandatory part of the class grade.

My child said that at Hoover and Churchill he could sit in the back of the classroom and tune out. The same students answered teacher questions so everyone else could be quiet if they wanted.

At Bullis, some classes were taught in a circle in which everyone could see each other. My child said he had to do the homework and follow along in class because he would be asked questions by the teacher several times in class. He didn’t want to be unprepared in front of his peers.

For those who have a preconceived idea of the types of students who attend private schools, I would encourage you to tour campus on a school day and compare the diversity to a W school. Students wear uniforms so there’s no popularity contest based on clothes. Bullying of others is a dismissible offense so my son thought as a transfer student he was more welcomed there than Churchill.

I will just leave it at this - Sure, there are very wealthy students at Bullis. It’s in Potomac after all. However, my son has also made friends from good families with limited means so they lived in neighborhoods where poverty is an issue and there is gun violence in their neighborhoods. Bullis offers a far better education than their local public schools, with transportation and scholarships so they travel long distances for the opportunities. Bullis has a wonderful counseling department that has hands on help so students whose parents don’t understand the college search process are not left to miss out on scholarships and admission deadlines. Churchill has only one College and Career counselor for about 500 students so there is very little help with the process. One my child’s friends described in an English class the first time a white adult at a public park called him the N word. A very important lesson about the power and hurt words can cause. Students feel even in the small classes that Bullis has that it is safe place to share without judgement. For a school that gained national news attention for N Word cards, I don’t think this friend would have shared the same experience in a class discussion at Churchill.

yes, but the point is that most kids at these expensive private schools will not have too divergent opinions. Most of them come from the same SES/income background. Hard to have a discussion with divergent opinions when most kids are from the same class background.

And you think it’s different at W schools with <5% FARMS and all the kids from one geographic area? Give me a fking break.

There are more lower income kids at W schools than at privates, and there are more kids, period. So yes, a public school, even a wealthyish one, will have more divergent view points than a private one where the school gatekeeps who is in and who is not.

<5% FARMS vs 20% on financial aid.

Did someone really type this as a reasonable response??? Private schools give financial aid to families w/ Sox figure incomes.

I used to think that too until my kids went to private.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why people think rich people would send their kids to schools with fewer advanced classes is so bonkers to me.

They believe (rightly or wrongly) that their advanced courses are actually more rigorous than the prescribed AP courses.

But, there seems to be enough angst among those parents that those expensive privates don't offer AP classes, and how this might impact their kids' college chances.

I have nothing against private schools. I thought about putting DC in a private school because DC seemed to need smaller class sizes. But this DC doesn't need any more advanced classes that our home public schools don't offer. And I think that is for the majority of both public and private kids.

Andover has almost no AP courses. Enough said.

Andover is not most private schools in a lot of ways. That’s certainly not the basis of comparison for this thread so let’s not pretend it is.

[Anonymous]

This is silly and we don’t do private but APs seem like an odd metric. It’s just another standardized curriculum that can be as much of a limitation as a strength.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:private schools parents can try to justify paying up to $55000 for a subpar education from here to the heaven, but the fact is none of them can compete with the Ws.
Choose any academic competition and the W schools will run circles around them.

With this attitude and line of thinking YOU are much better off in public school. Many don't agree with you in private so you won't fit in, plus it sounds like you want o raise a "competitor" while most people in private are looking to raise trend setters and leaders.

Just check the stats on all your favorite leaders....pick an industry. While there will be public kids and private kids in both, leaders are overly represented from private. Less than 10% of the kids in the community try attend private, so that's your benchmark. If private kids are represented above 10%, then kids generally are better off.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:private schools parents can try to justify paying up to $55000 for a subpar education from here to the heaven, but the fact is none of them can compete with the Ws.
Choose any academic competition and the W schools will run circles around them.

With this attitude and line of thinking YOU are much better off in public school. Many don't agree with you in private so you won't fit in, plus it sounds like you want o raise a "competitor" while most people in private are looking to raise trend setters and leaders.

Just check the stats on all your favorite leaders....pick an industry. While there will be public kids and private kids in both, leaders are overly represented from private. Less than 10% of the kids in the community try attend private, so that's your benchmark. If private kids are represented above 10%, then kids generally are better off.

Is the private school a cause or effect? Bill Gates went to private school, but his big entrepreneural break was a nepotism contract he got from his mom's friend on the board of IBM. But he got into computers because his private school has a rare at the time powerful computer.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:We are in a fortunate situation financially...never considered private schools to be justified from a Return on Investment, but they do have benefits. If money was a non-issue, would you go private or a W school?

If your child is bright, send them to a W. There's more high level classes at a W then at a private. They can take almost every AP class out there and really build up a strong transcript. If your child is on an education plan or is a so-so student, send them to private. They'll get more support then they will at a W, where they can get lost in the shuffle.

What if they are bright but you want a school where they develop a Rolodex, a network, superior sports and facilities? How about a school that is not subject to MCPS bureaucracy and politics?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:private schools parents can try to justify paying up to $55000 for a subpar education from here to the heaven, but the fact is none of them can compete with the Ws.
Choose any academic competition and the W schools will run circles around them.

With this attitude and line of thinking YOU are much better off in public school. Many don't agree with you in private so you won't fit in, plus it sounds like you want o raise a "competitor" while most people in private are looking to raise trend setters and leaders.

Just check the stats on all your favorite leaders....pick an industry. While there will be public kids and private kids in both, leaders are overly represented from private. Less than 10% of the kids in the community try attend private, so that's your benchmark. If private kids are represented above 10%, then kids generally are better off.

Is the private school a cause or effect? Bill Gates went to private school, but his big entrepreneural break was a nepotism contract he got from his mom's friend on the board of IBM. But he got into computers because his private school has a rare at the time powerful computer.

Do you think public school kids don’t benefit from nepotism? We’re talking about public schools in Potomac and Bethesda, not Compton.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:In our W neighborhood probably about 1/3 of the kids go to private. A large percentage were struggling in public for one reason or another. Many are quirky and could not deal socially with the big competitive environment of public schools and others were having trouble being motivated academically. I can think of only a handful of popular well adjusted kids who are A students who decided to go to private even for 9th.

Where I live in Bethesda 20817, everyone--or nearly everyone--with money is doing private. Liberal or Conservative. They have the resources and want out of MCPS.

yet, Whitman has 2000+ students. Must be all those poor people in Whitman.

Nobody said all poor. The net worth of those in private is just much, much higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why people think rich people would send their kids to schools with fewer advanced classes is so bonkers to me.

Why would rich people care about advanced classes? You can get into a better college this year by taking the "most challenging classes" at a school with a low ceiling. And the classes don't matter for getting you rich paying jobs.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:In our W neighborhood probably about 1/3 of the kids go to private. A large percentage were struggling in public for one reason or another. Many are quirky and could not deal socially with the big competitive environment of public schools and others were having trouble being motivated academically. I can think of only a handful of popular well adjusted kids who are A students who decided to go to private even for 9th.

Where I live in Bethesda 20817, everyone--or nearly everyone--with money is doing private. Liberal or Conservative. They have the resources and want out of MCPS.

yet, Whitman has 2000+ students. Must be all those poor people in Whitman.

Nobody said all poor. The net worth of those in private is just much, much higher.

Ah yes. Whitman, the school that draws from some of the wealthiest places in America, has poor students. LOLOLOL

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why people think rich people would send their kids to schools with fewer advanced classes is so bonkers to me.

Why would rich people care about advanced classes? You can get into a better college this year by taking the "most challenging classes" at a school with a low ceiling. And the classes don't matter for getting you rich paying jobs.

This is such utter BS.

[Anonymous]

Why would a college accept a kid from a school with very few advanced classes?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why people think rich people would send their kids to schools with fewer advanced classes is so bonkers to me.

Why would rich people care about advanced classes? You can get into a better college this year by taking the "most challenging classes" at a school with a low ceiling. And the classes don't matter for getting you rich paying jobs.

This is such utter BS.

Dp.. not really BS. Rich people use their connections to get their kids great internships and jobs. It doesn't matter if the kid is dumb as sh1t or took the easiest math class.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:IF both W schools and privates were free, what would you choose?

I am a new poster and have not been able to read all 46 pages of this thread but I did skim through a it and approached our choice much like you posed this question. We are in a W cluster but had considered private. Particularly Bullis. We decided to stick with our W cluster for many reasons but mostly because the diversity that you speak of at Bullis turned us off. We went to a football game and all the kids they bussed in were playing and the remaining student section was not diverse at all. I also truly believe that the math curriculm in our W cluster is leaps and bounds ahead of Bullis. Other factors lead to our decision as well but in the end even if it was free we decided to pass on private. In my opinion Private is worth it if you go for name recognition which is therefore only worth it when looking for single sex schools and that was not appealing for us.

Students who play sports are also students who are in the classroom. The Bulls football program is one of the best high school football program in the US. It has phenomenal athletes that earn the attention of D1 schools for college scholarship opportunities. Same for other athletic programs at the school.

A better measurement of the academic atmosphere is a tour of the school during the school day. Unlike public schools, athletes wear the same uniform as all other students. There’s nothing on them that represents themselves as a football player.

For math, child left Churchill for Bullis specifically for their STEM program. There were more advanced classes at Bullis for math and electives not offered at Churchill. The peer group for advanced math was around 12 students to Churchill’s 2 (hence why my son, if he stayed at Churchill, wouldn’t have a math class past 11th grade). The top math, science, and AP economics classes were taught by university professors. The quality of instruction and availability for help during office hours was also a huge benefit at Bullis.

Finally, help with the college search process was another benefit of private. Counselors at Bullis have a small fraction of students compared to their MCPS counterparts. Bullis counselors actually have several meetings with students to help them come up with a list of colleges, read essays, and provide feedback. They also help students chunk out the deadlines. At Churchill there was zero help with navigating the college process.

dp.. I call BS. It's a simple numbers game. Public schools like the Ws have way more students than Bullis, and many are also UMC. There are way more high achieving students in public schools than there are at Bullis simply because there are more public school students than private schools.

if your DS was that advanced in math he could've gone to Blair STEM, but it seems to me that he is probably not intuitively advanced as much as he is coached to be advanced. And yes, a lot of public school students are also tutored and coached to be advanced in math, as well, but they don't send their kids to private because they think private is much more advanced in STEM than Blair, for example.

BS meter is showing all the way to the right.

PP - this thread is asking if money wasn’t a factor, would you send your child to a W school or private. Blair is not a W school nor do most people in Potomac wish to put their child on a 45 minute bus ride to Silver Spring for access to a challenging math class and a segregated school within a school.

You may not agree with our choice, however, Bullis was a wonderful experience for my son. Bullis met his needs and provided a more challenging curriculum than Churchill. Bullis was also only 10 minutes from our house.

How did Bullis provide a more challenging math curriculum than your W school?

I’m not the person you’re responding to, but we’ve posted course catalogs for private schools repeatedly and compared them to W schools. The course offerings at private schools on the high school level are just as advanced if not more than the W schools.

Course offerings in catalogs are marketing brochures. It doesn't mean that the courses are taught every year. It will depend on if there are enough students who want or have the ability to take those classes. Works the same way in public schools and colleges. There are course offerings in catalogues that aren't always offered every year at that particular school.

That’s your excuse? Ok, so post proof that private schools don’t actually offer the advanced courses as much as public schools do. Otherwise it’s just obvious you’re grasping at straws to crap on private schools.

? not an excuse. Just stating the way it is. Colleges do the same.

But to use it as a way to argue private schools are weaker in math, you’d have to prove that the advanced courses are offered less often than at public schools.

ok, then maybe the Bullis parent could tell which advanced math course their kid took at Bullis that a W school didn't have, and also how many kids were in that advanced math class?

The kids in the advanced math classes in public are getting outside enrichment for math. It’s not from the teachings of public.

Nonsense. My kid at a W took multivariable calculus and I can assure that neither he nor his peers used tutors or outside help. We moved our kids from private to public for lots of reasons, and more advanced math and science classes was very much one of those reasons. The schools may be larger, but within each of those W schools there is a very significant cohort of smart, disciplined, and motivated students who do not need the coddling that so many private school kids do. No regrets.

Not sure which private school you came from or what anonymous W school your children attended. However, not all W high schools offer math beyond Calculus BC. We were in this situation and either my child had to transfer to a public school other than our neighborhood W school or not have an opportunity to participate in after school athletics so he could travel to Montgomery College for math. Transportation to the other school or to Montgomery College had to be supplied by our family. MCPS said that because there were not enough students in our school to take multi variable so it wasn’t being offered.

How recently?

Wootton, Whitman, and WJ all advertise it in their catalog currently.

And virtual academy is being deployed more since COVID, avoiding commute.

The school was Wootton and it was Pre-COVID. The catalog doesn’t guarantee that the class will be available for your child. They need a minimum number of students and a qualified teacher for the class to exist. It’s easier for MCPS to require students to go to other locations or simply say anything above Calculus BC is an elective. They also suggested that my child not take math his Junior and Senior year of high school.

You must be a troll. Maryland requires 4 years of math. No school would ever suggest that. They would instead encourage your child to take AP Stats or other math elective or slow down the Calc sequence by taking Calc AB first and then Calc BC.