Why does no one acknowledge how overworked teachers are?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Returning to this thread:

If you read the first 20-odd pages, there are a lot of people saying that indeed teachers do work hard. The first few posts are about how people DO, in fact, acknowledge how hard teachers work.

There are a couple of posters who did poop on teachers, true.

There were also posters that said, "hey we are all overworked." (Which is not saying that teachers AREN'T overworked, its' saying other people are overworked as well.)

There are also a couple of teachers who are ridiculously dug in to the narrative that they have the hardest job ever (worse apparently than poop scuba divers).

Oh yeah, there's the "parents suck" teacher as well, who always chimes in to just keep everything positive.

This is just a summary so no one thinks this entire thread is just "teachers have easy jobs."

Yet there are plenty of posts that refuse to acknowledge that teaching can be demanding, and the tired “but summers” argument is the usual go-to.

There are staggering misconceptions about teaching throughout this thread. I wouldn’t presume to know what it’s like to be a doctor or a “poop scuba diver,” but it’s clearly okay to assume what teaching is like. We’ve all been in classrooms, after all. We’ve all seen teachers in our daily lives. I guess that makes all of us on this thread clear experts in the education field. Sigh.

There is one (hopefully one) teacher who is suggesting that indeed they do know what every job entails, and that they do all of it as a teacher. And upthread there are plenty of comments where teachers presume to know what other jobs do or what the conditions are (and why their jobs are worse). This is part of why this thread won't die.

I think the main problem, as described numerous times upthread, is the phrasing of the OP. It's such a "what about me?" statement, despite the fact that there are teacher appreciation weeks, national news articles about teachers being overworked (suggesting they acknowledge that teachers are overworked), threads all the time here about how to appreciate teachers, etc.

DP. I'm assuming that poster is a troll, because I don't think anyone with more than a high school education would actually believe that poop divers and teachers have overlapping sanitation skills.

Not a troll and if you think I haven't had to clean up pretty much every bodily function out of my classroom you'd be wrong. I'm not diving 20,000 leagues to get it, but it is there on occasion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People who hate children and don't understand what they are like shouldn't be teaching.

Cool story. Quit your high-paying job, get in there and show them how it’s done! Enjoy your first year teacher pay cut. Come back and post your results here. Can’t wait!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:People that hate teachers shouldnt be parents.

I do love the ever-present “Parents are bad” teacher poster. Part of your job is going to be interaction with parents. Eventually you need to learn to deal, or you need to realize the job isn’t for you.

People who hate and burn with hate and anger are probably either depressed or need help and should seek therapy.

Exactly. The ever-present "parents are bad" teacher should probably seek therapy.

The crappy Teachers Are Terrible parents should seek therapy, and/or parenting classes. And I’m a DP. Feel free to ask Jeff.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If you think teaching is easy be a sub for one day in public American schools and you will be eaten alive as kids treat you like Jackie Robinson on his first game ever in MLB throwing trash and cussing you out as you lose your voice trying to talk over them. Then your principal comes in and berates you for being terrible at your job and being stupid for not being able to control students. It's horrible horrible horrible. The helplessness and zero life control give teachers pstd.

My job has meetings in the middle of the night occasionally. I survived.

Given the choice, I’ll take middle-of-the-night meetings any day over teaching. You also mention they happen “occasionally,” whereas the stress/panic of teaching happens all day, every day.

Except you’re not teaching all day, every day during the year, are you? Look, I get it, teaching is hard and maybe you don’t like your career decision. That’s totally ok. But wild exaggerations like that don’t help. We all know your get massive amounts of time off. You’re up at night in the middle of July or on Christmas Eve with night terrors about something that happened at work that day? That actually is some people’s reality. So let’s at least try to have some perspective.

This is why DCUM is so toxic. Guess what? I go to therapy because of teaching. I have been for years. This job can be so abusive and can break the toughest of people. Also: I am always working. ALWAYS. If I’m not at work, I’m at home prepping for work. That’s on weekends. That’s over the summer.

You can tell me to gain perspective, and I’m going to ask the same of you. There’s a reason DCUM is filled with threads like this one. It’s because teaching is HARD, and it’s only those who haven’t tried it who think otherwise.

I am a career changer. I came from a tough corporate job. It was a breeze compared to what I do now.

New to this thread, but man. Teachers really do think they have the hardest job in the world, don't they? Why does it always have to be crappy job Olympics? I haven't once seen a teacher say something like "wow, that is not a problem we have to deal with!" or "gee that also sounds hard!"

It's like someone can say that their job is high-stress dangerous muck diving in sewage to re-weld old plumbing (a job which exists!), and a teacher will be like "well at least you have a muck diving suit! I accidentally touched poop with my bare hands once!!!!"

Well considering we also have to deal with bathroom issues, at least in ES, this is a bad example. I think the reason you never see teachers say the bolded is because our job is all encompassing. We are lawyers and doctors, we are managers and low level data entry employees, we are secretaries and diplomats (and plumbers). Im curious what part of your jobs that you think are unique that teachers don't actually do!

NP. Look, I agree teaching is a hard job but it’s this kind of melodramatic exaggeration that makes people roll their eyes and then discredit any actual point you may be trying to make.

I notice that you didn't actually address the point of my post. What is unique to other jobs that teachers do not do?

they don’t work summers

You know you've lost the argument when you revert to coming at teachers unpaid summer time

Thr time off in the summer IS THE ACTUAL win to the argument. It's the whole argument. Unpaid is irrelevant - just budget better. For most people in the workforce, The idea of having literal weeks, maybe even months of not working is an actual dream. An unlivable dream.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Ohhh, thanks for the laugh. I needed that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If you think teaching is easy be a sub for one day in public American schools and you will be eaten alive as kids treat you like Jackie Robinson on his first game ever in MLB throwing trash and cussing you out as you lose your voice trying to talk over them. Then your principal comes in and berates you for being terrible at your job and being stupid for not being able to control students. It's horrible horrible horrible. The helplessness and zero life control give teachers pstd.

My job has meetings in the middle of the night occasionally. I survived.

Given the choice, I’ll take middle-of-the-night meetings any day over teaching. You also mention they happen “occasionally,” whereas the stress/panic of teaching happens all day, every day.

Except you’re not teaching all day, every day during the year, are you? Look, I get it, teaching is hard and maybe you don’t like your career decision. That’s totally ok. But wild exaggerations like that don’t help. We all know your get massive amounts of time off. You’re up at night in the middle of July or on Christmas Eve with night terrors about something that happened at work that day? That actually is some people’s reality. So let’s at least try to have some perspective.

This is why DCUM is so toxic. Guess what? I go to therapy because of teaching. I have been for years. This job can be so abusive and can break the toughest of people. Also: I am always working. ALWAYS. If I’m not at work, I’m at home prepping for work. That’s on weekends. That’s over the summer.

You can tell me to gain perspective, and I’m going to ask the same of you. There’s a reason DCUM is filled with threads like this one. It’s because teaching is HARD, and it’s only those who haven’t tried it who think otherwise.

I am a career changer. I came from a tough corporate job. It was a breeze compared to what I do now.

New to this thread, but man. Teachers really do think they have the hardest job in the world, don't they? Why does it always have to be crappy job Olympics? I haven't once seen a teacher say something like "wow, that is not a problem we have to deal with!" or "gee that also sounds hard!"

It's like someone can say that their job is high-stress dangerous muck diving in sewage to re-weld old plumbing (a job which exists!), and a teacher will be like "well at least you have a muck diving suit! I accidentally touched poop with my bare hands once!!!!"

Well considering we also have to deal with bathroom issues, at least in ES, this is a bad example. I think the reason you never see teachers say the bolded is because our job is all encompassing. We are lawyers and doctors, we are managers and low level data entry employees, we are secretaries and diplomats (and plumbers). Im curious what part of your jobs that you think are unique that teachers don't actually do!

NP. Look, I agree teaching is a hard job but it’s this kind of melodramatic exaggeration that makes people roll their eyes and then discredit any actual point you may be trying to make.

I notice that you didn't actually address the point of my post. What is unique to other jobs that teachers do not do?

they don’t work summers

You know you've lost the argument when you revert to coming at teachers unpaid summer time

Thr time off in the summer IS THE ACTUAL win to the argument. It's the whole argument. Unpaid is irrelevant - just budget better. For most people in the workforce, The idea of having literal weeks, maybe even months of not working is an actual dream. An unlivable dream.

Let me crush that dream for you.

I work 60 hours a week x 40 weeks = 2400 hours
I work (minimum) 2 weeks during my unpaid summer = 80 hours
Total: 2480 hours

A 40-hour a week job, 50 weeks a year: 2000 hours —- 480 hours less.

As I see it, my summer vacation is my break for a grueling year. Also, my job is always ON. There are no long lunches, breaks in a friend’s office, etc.

Am I complaining? No. But I am going to say “summers off” is the MOST annoying misconception I hear about my job.

Lol what. I’m not sure where you’re getting this mythical idea of the 40 hours a week, hard stop job…unless you’re talking about factory workers or something, most of us are working more than 40 hours a week. Why would only the hours teachers work on evenings/mornings/weekends count as extra, and not everyone else? (Besides the fact that it plays well into your preferred narrative…)

And to act like getting 3 consecutive months off every year PLUS 3-4 other weeks throughout the year isn’t an amazing and completely one of a kind perk is idiotic

What teacher gets a 3 month summer? Try 2… tops. And it’s unpaid. Why do we ignore the fact teachers are actually 10-month employees? And your “3-4 weeks” extra? Where is that?

Again: you get paid for 12 months of work. Teachers don’t.

If teachers have it so great… apply!!! Clearly people have tried it and realized it isn’t the awesome deal non-teachers think it is.

Right, because I do 12 months of work. You do not. That is the difference, and having THAT much time off every single year is unheard of in any other profession (in America, at least)

This. Mic drop.

“Mic drop?” Oh, I’m so embarrassed for you. Are you 13?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All the teachers posting three paragraph responses, are you counting your time on DCUM in your 60 hr work weeks?

Pot, kettle.

Do you know how many hours are left between 168 and 60, even counting sleep? Buffoon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Returning to this thread:

If you read the first 20-odd pages, there are a lot of people saying that indeed teachers do work hard. The first few posts are about how people DO, in fact, acknowledge how hard teachers work.

There are a couple of posters who did poop on teachers, true.

There were also posters that said, "hey we are all overworked." (Which is not saying that teachers AREN'T overworked, its' saying other people are overworked as well.)

There are also a couple of teachers who are ridiculously dug in to the narrative that they have the hardest job ever (worse apparently than poop scuba divers).

Oh yeah, there's the "parents suck" teacher as well, who always chimes in to just keep everything positive.

This is just a summary so no one thinks this entire thread is just "teachers have easy jobs."

Yet there are plenty of posts that refuse to acknowledge that teaching can be demanding, and the tired “but summers” argument is the usual go-to.

There are staggering misconceptions about teaching throughout this thread. I wouldn’t presume to know what it’s like to be a doctor or a “poop scuba diver,” but it’s clearly okay to assume what teaching is like. We’ve all been in classrooms, after all. We’ve all seen teachers in our daily lives. I guess that makes all of us on this thread clear experts in the education field. Sigh.

+1 It's like thinking that owning a car makes you an expert mechanic.

But don’t you understand? Having been students in the 80s/90s makes them experts on teachers’ jobs in 2023. Not enough eyeroll emojis in the world.

[Anonymous]

Thr time off in the summer IS THE ACTUAL win to the argument. It's the whole argument. Unpaid is irrelevant - just budget better. For most people in the workforce, The idea of having literal weeks, maybe even months of not working is an actual dream. An unlivable dream.



Yeah, it's great when you don't have enough money to pay your bills let alone do anything with the time off other than try to find work. It's fine if you have a safety net like your spouse's income or your parent's income to prop you up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a former teacher. My perspective is 1) teachers underestimate how overworked everyone else is. They think they’re uniquely working unpaid overtime when just about anyone in a salaried role is feeling the same pressure, especially if they want to be regarded as good as their job. Same as teachers. 2) A ton of this, teachers bring on themselves. Take decorating rooms. No one is making them do that. You choose to go blow $200 at Michaels and then spend a weekend taping kitschy crap to the walls.

If you’re actually a former teacher, you’ve been out of the classroom for a long long time to say something like #1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a former teacher. My perspective is 1) teachers underestimate how overworked everyone else is. They think they’re uniquely working unpaid overtime when just about anyone in a salaried role is feeling the same pressure, especially if they want to be regarded as good as their job. Same as teachers. 2) A ton of this, teachers bring on themselves. Take decorating rooms. No one is making them do that. You choose to go blow $200 at Michaels and then spend a weekend taping kitschy crap to the walls.

If you’re actually a former teacher, you’ve been out of the classroom for a long long time to say something like #1.

And as for 2, you've clearly never seen the classroom checklists that my admin passes out the first week of school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Returning to this thread:

If you read the first 20-odd pages, there are a lot of people saying that indeed teachers do work hard. The first few posts are about how people DO, in fact, acknowledge how hard teachers work.

There are a couple of posters who did poop on teachers, true.

There were also posters that said, "hey we are all overworked." (Which is not saying that teachers AREN'T overworked, its' saying other people are overworked as well.)

There are also a couple of teachers who are ridiculously dug in to the narrative that they have the hardest job ever (worse apparently than poop scuba divers).

Oh yeah, there's the "parents suck" teacher as well, who always chimes in to just keep everything positive.

This is just a summary so no one thinks this entire thread is just "teachers have easy jobs."

Yet there are plenty of posts that refuse to acknowledge that teaching can be demanding, and the tired “but summers” argument is the usual go-to.

There are staggering misconceptions about teaching throughout this thread. I wouldn’t presume to know what it’s like to be a doctor or a “poop scuba diver,” but it’s clearly okay to assume what teaching is like. We’ve all been in classrooms, after all. We’ve all seen teachers in our daily lives. I guess that makes all of us on this thread clear experts in the education field. Sigh.

There is one (hopefully one) teacher who is suggesting that indeed they do know what every job entails, and that they do all of it as a teacher. And upthread there are plenty of comments where teachers presume to know what other jobs do or what the conditions are (and why their jobs are worse). This is part of why this thread won't die.

I think the main problem, as described numerous times upthread, is the phrasing of the OP. It's such a "what about me?" statement, despite the fact that there are teacher appreciation weeks, national news articles about teachers being overworked (suggesting they acknowledge that teachers are overworked), threads all the time here about how to appreciate teachers, etc.

DP. I'm assuming that poster is a troll, because I don't think anyone with more than a high school education would actually believe that poop divers and teachers have overlapping sanitation skills.

Not a troll and if you think I haven't had to clean up pretty much every bodily function out of my classroom you'd be wrong. I'm not diving 20,000 leagues to get it, but it is there on occasion.

Right, yes…this is a completely, COMPLETELY different story. Not even close to comparable. That you would imply that is laughable…what grade do you teach?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Returning to this thread:

If you read the first 20-odd pages, there are a lot of people saying that indeed teachers do work hard. The first few posts are about how people DO, in fact, acknowledge how hard teachers work.

There are a couple of posters who did poop on teachers, true.

There were also posters that said, "hey we are all overworked." (Which is not saying that teachers AREN'T overworked, its' saying other people are overworked as well.)

There are also a couple of teachers who are ridiculously dug in to the narrative that they have the hardest job ever (worse apparently than poop scuba divers).

Oh yeah, there's the "parents suck" teacher as well, who always chimes in to just keep everything positive.

This is just a summary so no one thinks this entire thread is just "teachers have easy jobs."

Yet there are plenty of posts that refuse to acknowledge that teaching can be demanding, and the tired “but summers” argument is the usual go-to.

There are staggering misconceptions about teaching throughout this thread. I wouldn’t presume to know what it’s like to be a doctor or a “poop scuba diver,” but it’s clearly okay to assume what teaching is like. We’ve all been in classrooms, after all. We’ve all seen teachers in our daily lives. I guess that makes all of us on this thread clear experts in the education field. Sigh.

+1 It's like thinking that owning a car makes you an expert mechanic.

But don’t you understand? Having been students in the 80s/90s makes them experts on teachers’ jobs in 2023. Not enough eyeroll emojis in the world.

I suspect this is a big part of the problem on this thread. Unless you teach, you have no idea what the job is really like. There’s a good reason teachers are quitting in droves: the pace and the conditions aren’t sustainable. You have to give up all work/life balance to get it all done, and people are increasingly refusing to do that.

The anti-teacher posters on this thread will continue to discredit the fact real problems exist within this profession. Nothing will change their minds, which were likely made up when they were teenagers seeing only a fraction of the work their own teachers performed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Returning to this thread:

If you read the first 20-odd pages, there are a lot of people saying that indeed teachers do work hard. The first few posts are about how people DO, in fact, acknowledge how hard teachers work.

There are a couple of posters who did poop on teachers, true.

There were also posters that said, "hey we are all overworked." (Which is not saying that teachers AREN'T overworked, its' saying other people are overworked as well.)

There are also a couple of teachers who are ridiculously dug in to the narrative that they have the hardest job ever (worse apparently than poop scuba divers).

Oh yeah, there's the "parents suck" teacher as well, who always chimes in to just keep everything positive.

This is just a summary so no one thinks this entire thread is just "teachers have easy jobs."

Yet there are plenty of posts that refuse to acknowledge that teaching can be demanding, and the tired “but summers” argument is the usual go-to.

There are staggering misconceptions about teaching throughout this thread. I wouldn’t presume to know what it’s like to be a doctor or a “poop scuba diver,” but it’s clearly okay to assume what teaching is like. We’ve all been in classrooms, after all. We’ve all seen teachers in our daily lives. I guess that makes all of us on this thread clear experts in the education field. Sigh.

There is one (hopefully one) teacher who is suggesting that indeed they do know what every job entails, and that they do all of it as a teacher. And upthread there are plenty of comments where teachers presume to know what other jobs do or what the conditions are (and why their jobs are worse). This is part of why this thread won't die.

I think the main problem, as described numerous times upthread, is the phrasing of the OP. It's such a "what about me?" statement, despite the fact that there are teacher appreciation weeks, national news articles about teachers being overworked (suggesting they acknowledge that teachers are overworked), threads all the time here about how to appreciate teachers, etc.

DP. I'm assuming that poster is a troll, because I don't think anyone with more than a high school education would actually believe that poop divers and teachers have overlapping sanitation skills.

Not a troll and if you think I haven't had to clean up pretty much every bodily function out of my classroom you'd be wrong. I'm not diving 20,000 leagues to get it, but it is there on occasion.

Right, yes…this is a completely, COMPLETELY different story. Not even close to comparable. That you would imply that is laughable…what grade do you teach?

Sorry the poop you pick up isn't poopy enough. We've reached peak DCUM teacher hate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Returning to this thread:

If you read the first 20-odd pages, there are a lot of people saying that indeed teachers do work hard. The first few posts are about how people DO, in fact, acknowledge how hard teachers work.

There are a couple of posters who did poop on teachers, true.

There were also posters that said, "hey we are all overworked." (Which is not saying that teachers AREN'T overworked, its' saying other people are overworked as well.)

There are also a couple of teachers who are ridiculously dug in to the narrative that they have the hardest job ever (worse apparently than poop scuba divers).

Oh yeah, there's the "parents suck" teacher as well, who always chimes in to just keep everything positive.

This is just a summary so no one thinks this entire thread is just "teachers have easy jobs."

Yet there are plenty of posts that refuse to acknowledge that teaching can be demanding, and the tired “but summers” argument is the usual go-to.

There are staggering misconceptions about teaching throughout this thread. I wouldn’t presume to know what it’s like to be a doctor or a “poop scuba diver,” but it’s clearly okay to assume what teaching is like. We’ve all been in classrooms, after all. We’ve all seen teachers in our daily lives. I guess that makes all of us on this thread clear experts in the education field. Sigh.

+1 It's like thinking that owning a car makes you an expert mechanic.

But don’t you understand? Having been students in the 80s/90s makes them experts on teachers’ jobs in 2023. Not enough eyeroll emojis in the world.

I suspect this is a big part of the problem on this thread. Unless you teach, you have no idea what the job is really like. There’s a good reason teachers are quitting in droves: the pace and the conditions aren’t sustainable. You have to give up all work/life balance to get it all done, and people are increasingly refusing to do that.

The anti-teacher posters on this thread will continue to discredit the fact real problems exist within this profession. Nothing will change their minds, which were likely made up when they were teenagers seeing only a fraction of the work their own teachers performed.

To add to that, anyone who graduated >20 years ago, which I suspect is a significant number of posters on this forum, has no idea what it’s like in schools now that funding is tied to discipline referrals or lack thereof, graduation rates and passing test scores.

[Anonymous]

You guys, teachers have the hardest job of all jobs. Full stop. No other job is harder or paid less. It's ridiculous to pretend otherwise. Teachers are the most put-upon, least respected group of people everywhere.