D.C. needs to get a lot more car friendly

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just so you know. The owner of Bread Furst himself has said that the location was specifically picked because of parking, visibility and neighborhood household income. He would be the absolute last person to want to make Connecticut a one lane road without parking.

I can't speak for the owner of Bread Furst, but many business owners are in favor of traffic calming. They know that a lot of their business comes from people who arrive on foot, and they don't enjoy risking their own lives getting to work.

Oh please do share the names of these businesses that are clamoring for narrower streets, no parking and physical impediments.

Business owners hate it when it’s easy for people to come to their stores

Totally. I just dug up this really interesting research from NYC that is strong support for traffic calming being very good for local business.

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/dot-economic-benefits-of-sustainable-streets.pdf

This is a straw man. The issue is not how calm the traffic is, the issue is whether the traffic can stop and spend. TaKe away parking and take away curbside access (hello bike lane) and those businesses will fail.

Lol, bikers spend quite a bit and don't waste valuable parking spaces.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/more-businesses-in-san-diego-begin-to-embrace-bike-lanes/2951045/

The only problem is that the number of bikers is tiny.

And they make it harder to walk around because they don't follow traffic rules

"There's so few of them that they make it hard to walk around, and I'm going to ignore the vehicles that actually kill pedestrians" is a very interesting take. Like, some real five dimensional logical. Or just pure BS. Yeah, pure BS. Thanks.

I know these are difficult concepts and helmet laws are a relatively new phenomenon but try and follow:

The argument you proferred was that bicylists and bike lanes would be economically beneficial to retail businesses. That they would make up any business lost due to lost parking etc. The problem with that argument is two fold and for two different reasons. Firstly there arent anywhere near enough bicyclists, especially yearround, to make up that volume and secondly, any benfits from increased pedestrianization due to less cars is completely offset by bike lanes due to bicyclists not stopping at lights and stop signs. In short, there are not enough bicyclists to make up lost demand AND pedestrian access is not improved.

1. You don't know how much business will be lost from removal of some parking. It's not 100% and it may not even be a large percent.
2. You don't know how much increased business comes from bicyclists and pedestrians.
You're just making stuff up to fit your narrative. Please go back to grade school for how to make an argument.

Really? Physician, heal thyself.

Narrower lanes, no parking, and physical impediments will not increase either density or business. Increased density requires wider not narrower lanes. Increased walkability requires no physical impediments and no bike thoroughfares. Parking is a function of density. If there is enough density, 300% more than now, then parking is less necessary but the catch-22 is that in order to get past the first stages of increased density there needs to be more parking.

That is the problem of using "pedestrian safety" and economic development as a stalking horse for bike lanes. Bike lanes do neither while the anti-car measures actively harm economic development by reducing access and demand. DC has nowhere near the level of population density for neighborhoods to be entirely self-sustaining.

Ok, more conjecture. Cool, thanks.

Oh sorry. Was the basic logic to complicated or are you just in the denial phase? It's basic economics. It's also all the pro-density arguments you make. The only problem you have is that the specific measures you want to implement - narrow roads, no parking and physical impediments - decrease rather than increase population density.

Oh, cool. City development is basic economics. Who knew it was so simple?

You're showing your ignorance here.

Isn't it. I mean all we have to do is increase congestion, remove parking and make walking more complicated. Once we reduce access and demand then we'll have an economic nirvana.

1. Remove sidewalks, bike lanes, bus stuff, add travel lanes and parking
2. ?
3. Profit!

Interesting that you say that. Nobody has proposed any of that. What is being demanded is eliminating roads, narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments with the specific and stated goal of increasing congestion in order to reduce demand which will somehow miraculously result in more business and a population increase. This is a phenomenally stupid idea.

What is being "demanded" is traffic calming and creating space for other forms of transit - bus, pedestrian, bike. Traffic calming, by definition, slows down traffic. No, you do not have the right to drive through DC at 50MPH and block other forms of transit with your free parking.

What you're claiming (in the absence of all evidence) is that traffic calming ruins business.

Come on say what you mean instead of hiding behind euphemisms. The traffic "calming" proposals are narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments.

The big irony is that none of that calms anything. Instead it increases frustration and congestion. That is your stated goal. To make driving so bad and inconvenient that they look for alternatives. The problem with that is that those alternatives will be other areas.



People do not drive through DC at 50mph. There is too much traffic to do that.

This. 100%

Nobody is going to switch to bikes because traffic is bad. That’s laughable. One thing that will definitely happen is people will circulate less. They won’t move about the city as much and stay closer to home. Hard to see how that’s in anyone interest. But our city is ruled by people who are not just ignorant of economics but actively hostile to it.

This is happening in other cities as well. Museums in San Francisco struggle to survive with the reduced flow of people that has come with closing roads to car traffic. It’s really terrible.

A lot of businesses are leaving DC for the suburbs. There aren’t enough people to sustain their businesses when you take away all the parking, make it too difficult to drive, etc. My guess is that at some point, the city will have to tear out a lot of the bike infrastructure because it hurts businesses (and tax revenue) so much. It’s just not economically viable.

You’re funny!!!!

NP, here. A few years ago, DC changed the lane patterns of Wisconsin Ave near Glover Park. They basically made Wisconsin two lanes rather than four lanes through Glover Park. It created a horrific traffic bottleneck and they had to undo -- at taxpayer expense - everything and go back to the original configuration. This is what's going to happen downtown. It just hasn't been tested yet because people aren't fully. back to working in offices. Once traffic returns all hell will break lose and this experiment will need to be undone.

Smaller, walkable/bikeable streets are better for business than multi lane thoroughfares. Those wanting multi lane throughfares aren’t stopping to shop, they are speeding through as quickly as possible. Foot traffic and bike traffic = customers for businesses on smaller streets.

I don’t think this is true. The Wharf, Pike and Rose and the Mosaic district are doing very well by providing a walkable destination that’s conveniently accessible with abundant parking. Take away the accessibility and parking and the best case result is Georgetown, which is aided by a waterfront, university and historic district.

Just explain where this foot traffic with disposable income is supposed to come from.

Parking at the wharf is one of the greatest nightmares of my life.

The anti-car brigade thought there should be even fewer parking spaces when in fact they should have built more. Less parking than present would make it not worthwhile to visit.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just so you know. The owner of Bread Furst himself has said that the location was specifically picked because of parking, visibility and neighborhood household income. He would be the absolute last person to want to make Connecticut a one lane road without parking.

I can't speak for the owner of Bread Furst, but many business owners are in favor of traffic calming. They know that a lot of their business comes from people who arrive on foot, and they don't enjoy risking their own lives getting to work.

Oh please do share the names of these businesses that are clamoring for narrower streets, no parking and physical impediments.

Business owners hate it when it’s easy for people to come to their stores

Totally. I just dug up this really interesting research from NYC that is strong support for traffic calming being very good for local business.

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/dot-economic-benefits-of-sustainable-streets.pdf

This is a straw man. The issue is not how calm the traffic is, the issue is whether the traffic can stop and spend. TaKe away parking and take away curbside access (hello bike lane) and those businesses will fail.

Lol, bikers spend quite a bit and don't waste valuable parking spaces.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/more-businesses-in-san-diego-begin-to-embrace-bike-lanes/2951045/

The only problem is that the number of bikers is tiny.

And they make it harder to walk around because they don't follow traffic rules

"There's so few of them that they make it hard to walk around, and I'm going to ignore the vehicles that actually kill pedestrians" is a very interesting take. Like, some real five dimensional logical. Or just pure BS. Yeah, pure BS. Thanks.

I know these are difficult concepts and helmet laws are a relatively new phenomenon but try and follow:

The argument you proferred was that bicylists and bike lanes would be economically beneficial to retail businesses. That they would make up any business lost due to lost parking etc. The problem with that argument is two fold and for two different reasons. Firstly there arent anywhere near enough bicyclists, especially yearround, to make up that volume and secondly, any benfits from increased pedestrianization due to less cars is completely offset by bike lanes due to bicyclists not stopping at lights and stop signs. In short, there are not enough bicyclists to make up lost demand AND pedestrian access is not improved.

1. You don't know how much business will be lost from removal of some parking. It's not 100% and it may not even be a large percent.
2. You don't know how much increased business comes from bicyclists and pedestrians.
You're just making stuff up to fit your narrative. Please go back to grade school for how to make an argument.

Really? Physician, heal thyself.

Narrower lanes, no parking, and physical impediments will not increase either density or business. Increased density requires wider not narrower lanes. Increased walkability requires no physical impediments and no bike thoroughfares. Parking is a function of density. If there is enough density, 300% more than now, then parking is less necessary but the catch-22 is that in order to get past the first stages of increased density there needs to be more parking.

That is the problem of using "pedestrian safety" and economic development as a stalking horse for bike lanes. Bike lanes do neither while the anti-car measures actively harm economic development by reducing access and demand. DC has nowhere near the level of population density for neighborhoods to be entirely self-sustaining.

Ok, more conjecture. Cool, thanks.

Oh sorry. Was the basic logic to complicated or are you just in the denial phase? It's basic economics. It's also all the pro-density arguments you make. The only problem you have is that the specific measures you want to implement - narrow roads, no parking and physical impediments - decrease rather than increase population density.

Oh, cool. City development is basic economics. Who knew it was so simple?

You're showing your ignorance here.

Isn't it. I mean all we have to do is increase congestion, remove parking and make walking more complicated. Once we reduce access and demand then we'll have an economic nirvana.

1. Remove sidewalks, bike lanes, bus stuff, add travel lanes and parking
2. ?
3. Profit!

Interesting that you say that. Nobody has proposed any of that. What is being demanded is eliminating roads, narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments with the specific and stated goal of increasing congestion in order to reduce demand which will somehow miraculously result in more business and a population increase. This is a phenomenally stupid idea.

What is being "demanded" is traffic calming and creating space for other forms of transit - bus, pedestrian, bike. Traffic calming, by definition, slows down traffic. No, you do not have the right to drive through DC at 50MPH and block other forms of transit with your free parking.

What you're claiming (in the absence of all evidence) is that traffic calming ruins business.

Come on say what you mean instead of hiding behind euphemisms. The traffic "calming" proposals are narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments.

The big irony is that none of that calms anything. Instead it increases frustration and congestion. That is your stated goal. To make driving so bad and inconvenient that they look for alternatives. The problem with that is that those alternatives will be other areas.



People do not drive through DC at 50mph. There is too much traffic to do that.

This. 100%

Nobody is going to switch to bikes because traffic is bad. That’s laughable. One thing that will definitely happen is people will circulate less. They won’t move about the city as much and stay closer to home. Hard to see how that’s in anyone interest. But our city is ruled by people who are not just ignorant of economics but actively hostile to it.

This is happening in other cities as well. Museums in San Francisco struggle to survive with the reduced flow of people that has come with closing roads to car traffic. It’s really terrible.

A lot of businesses are leaving DC for the suburbs. There aren’t enough people to sustain their businesses when you take away all the parking, make it too difficult to drive, etc. My guess is that at some point, the city will have to tear out a lot of the bike infrastructure because it hurts businesses (and tax revenue) so much. It’s just not economically viable.

You’re funny!!!!

NP, here. A few years ago, DC changed the lane patterns of Wisconsin Ave near Glover Park. They basically made Wisconsin two lanes rather than four lanes through Glover Park. It created a horrific traffic bottleneck and they had to undo -- at taxpayer expense - everything and go back to the original configuration. This is what's going to happen downtown. It just hasn't been tested yet because people aren't fully. back to working in offices. Once traffic returns all hell will break lose and this experiment will need to be undone.

16th Street is going to be an unholy mess once there's a full return.

Between induced congestion, the pandemic and inflation a decade of extraordinary growth is at risk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just so you know. The owner of Bread Furst himself has said that the location was specifically picked because of parking, visibility and neighborhood household income. He would be the absolute last person to want to make Connecticut a one lane road without parking.

I can't speak for the owner of Bread Furst, but many business owners are in favor of traffic calming. They know that a lot of their business comes from people who arrive on foot, and they don't enjoy risking their own lives getting to work.

Oh please do share the names of these businesses that are clamoring for narrower streets, no parking and physical impediments.

Business owners hate it when it’s easy for people to come to their stores

Totally. I just dug up this really interesting research from NYC that is strong support for traffic calming being very good for local business.

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/dot-economic-benefits-of-sustainable-streets.pdf

This is a straw man. The issue is not how calm the traffic is, the issue is whether the traffic can stop and spend. TaKe away parking and take away curbside access (hello bike lane) and those businesses will fail.

Lol, bikers spend quite a bit and don't waste valuable parking spaces.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/more-businesses-in-san-diego-begin-to-embrace-bike-lanes/2951045/

The only problem is that the number of bikers is tiny.

And they make it harder to walk around because they don't follow traffic rules

"There's so few of them that they make it hard to walk around, and I'm going to ignore the vehicles that actually kill pedestrians" is a very interesting take. Like, some real five dimensional logical. Or just pure BS. Yeah, pure BS. Thanks.

I know these are difficult concepts and helmet laws are a relatively new phenomenon but try and follow:

The argument you proferred was that bicylists and bike lanes would be economically beneficial to retail businesses. That they would make up any business lost due to lost parking etc. The problem with that argument is two fold and for two different reasons. Firstly there arent anywhere near enough bicyclists, especially yearround, to make up that volume and secondly, any benfits from increased pedestrianization due to less cars is completely offset by bike lanes due to bicyclists not stopping at lights and stop signs. In short, there are not enough bicyclists to make up lost demand AND pedestrian access is not improved.

1. You don't know how much business will be lost from removal of some parking. It's not 100% and it may not even be a large percent.
2. You don't know how much increased business comes from bicyclists and pedestrians.
You're just making stuff up to fit your narrative. Please go back to grade school for how to make an argument.

Really? Physician, heal thyself.

Narrower lanes, no parking, and physical impediments will not increase either density or business. Increased density requires wider not narrower lanes. Increased walkability requires no physical impediments and no bike thoroughfares. Parking is a function of density. If there is enough density, 300% more than now, then parking is less necessary but the catch-22 is that in order to get past the first stages of increased density there needs to be more parking.

That is the problem of using "pedestrian safety" and economic development as a stalking horse for bike lanes. Bike lanes do neither while the anti-car measures actively harm economic development by reducing access and demand. DC has nowhere near the level of population density for neighborhoods to be entirely self-sustaining.

Ok, more conjecture. Cool, thanks.

Oh sorry. Was the basic logic to complicated or are you just in the denial phase? It's basic economics. It's also all the pro-density arguments you make. The only problem you have is that the specific measures you want to implement - narrow roads, no parking and physical impediments - decrease rather than increase population density.

Oh, cool. City development is basic economics. Who knew it was so simple?

You're showing your ignorance here.

Isn't it. I mean all we have to do is increase congestion, remove parking and make walking more complicated. Once we reduce access and demand then we'll have an economic nirvana.

1. Remove sidewalks, bike lanes, bus stuff, add travel lanes and parking
2. ?
3. Profit!

Interesting that you say that. Nobody has proposed any of that. What is being demanded is eliminating roads, narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments with the specific and stated goal of increasing congestion in order to reduce demand which will somehow miraculously result in more business and a population increase. This is a phenomenally stupid idea.

What is being "demanded" is traffic calming and creating space for other forms of transit - bus, pedestrian, bike. Traffic calming, by definition, slows down traffic. No, you do not have the right to drive through DC at 50MPH and block other forms of transit with your free parking.

What you're claiming (in the absence of all evidence) is that traffic calming ruins business.

Come on say what you mean instead of hiding behind euphemisms. The traffic "calming" proposals are narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments.

The big irony is that none of that calms anything. Instead it increases frustration and congestion. That is your stated goal. To make driving so bad and inconvenient that they look for alternatives. The problem with that is that those alternatives will be other areas.



People do not drive through DC at 50mph. There is too much traffic to do that.

This. 100%

Nobody is going to switch to bikes because traffic is bad. That’s laughable. One thing that will definitely happen is people will circulate less. They won’t move about the city as much and stay closer to home. Hard to see how that’s in anyone interest. But our city is ruled by people who are not just ignorant of economics but actively hostile to it.

This is happening in other cities as well. Museums in San Francisco struggle to survive with the reduced flow of people that has come with closing roads to car traffic. It’s really terrible.

A lot of businesses are leaving DC for the suburbs. There aren’t enough people to sustain their businesses when you take away all the parking, make it too difficult to drive, etc. My guess is that at some point, the city will have to tear out a lot of the bike infrastructure because it hurts businesses (and tax revenue) so much. It’s just not economically viable.

You’re funny!!!!

NP, here. A few years ago, DC changed the lane patterns of Wisconsin Ave near Glover Park. They basically made Wisconsin two lanes rather than four lanes through Glover Park. It created a horrific traffic bottleneck and they had to undo -- at taxpayer expense - everything and go back to the original configuration. This is what's going to happen downtown. It just hasn't been tested yet because people aren't fully. back to working in offices. Once traffic returns all hell will break lose and this experiment will need to be undone.

Smaller, walkable/bikeable streets are better for business than multi lane thoroughfares. Those wanting multi lane throughfares aren’t stopping to shop, they are speeding through as quickly as possible. Foot traffic and bike traffic = customers for businesses on smaller streets.

I don’t think this is true. The Wharf, Pike and Rose and the Mosaic district are doing very well by providing a walkable destination that’s conveniently accessible with abundant parking. Take away the accessibility and parking and the best case result is Georgetown, which is aided by a waterfront, university and historic district.

Just explain where this foot traffic with disposable income is supposed to come from.

again, traffic calming does not mean shutting down a city. It means … making the streets safe and accessible to everyone. The Wharf does not have free street parking; and Georgetown is doing fine with limited parking. The decline of GT storefronts has to do with DC shifting to *more* pedestrian friendly social areas that are more accessible by transit (Wharf, U St)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just so you know. The owner of Bread Furst himself has said that the location was specifically picked because of parking, visibility and neighborhood household income. He would be the absolute last person to want to make Connecticut a one lane road without parking.

I can't speak for the owner of Bread Furst, but many business owners are in favor of traffic calming. They know that a lot of their business comes from people who arrive on foot, and they don't enjoy risking their own lives getting to work.

Oh please do share the names of these businesses that are clamoring for narrower streets, no parking and physical impediments.

Business owners hate it when it’s easy for people to come to their stores

Totally. I just dug up this really interesting research from NYC that is strong support for traffic calming being very good for local business.

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/dot-economic-benefits-of-sustainable-streets.pdf

This is a straw man. The issue is not how calm the traffic is, the issue is whether the traffic can stop and spend. TaKe away parking and take away curbside access (hello bike lane) and those businesses will fail.

Lol, bikers spend quite a bit and don't waste valuable parking spaces.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/more-businesses-in-san-diego-begin-to-embrace-bike-lanes/2951045/

The only problem is that the number of bikers is tiny.

And they make it harder to walk around because they don't follow traffic rules

"There's so few of them that they make it hard to walk around, and I'm going to ignore the vehicles that actually kill pedestrians" is a very interesting take. Like, some real five dimensional logical. Or just pure BS. Yeah, pure BS. Thanks.

I know these are difficult concepts and helmet laws are a relatively new phenomenon but try and follow:

The argument you proferred was that bicylists and bike lanes would be economically beneficial to retail businesses. That they would make up any business lost due to lost parking etc. The problem with that argument is two fold and for two different reasons. Firstly there arent anywhere near enough bicyclists, especially yearround, to make up that volume and secondly, any benfits from increased pedestrianization due to less cars is completely offset by bike lanes due to bicyclists not stopping at lights and stop signs. In short, there are not enough bicyclists to make up lost demand AND pedestrian access is not improved.

1. You don't know how much business will be lost from removal of some parking. It's not 100% and it may not even be a large percent.
2. You don't know how much increased business comes from bicyclists and pedestrians.
You're just making stuff up to fit your narrative. Please go back to grade school for how to make an argument.

Really? Physician, heal thyself.

Narrower lanes, no parking, and physical impediments will not increase either density or business. Increased density requires wider not narrower lanes. Increased walkability requires no physical impediments and no bike thoroughfares. Parking is a function of density. If there is enough density, 300% more than now, then parking is less necessary but the catch-22 is that in order to get past the first stages of increased density there needs to be more parking.

That is the problem of using "pedestrian safety" and economic development as a stalking horse for bike lanes. Bike lanes do neither while the anti-car measures actively harm economic development by reducing access and demand. DC has nowhere near the level of population density for neighborhoods to be entirely self-sustaining.

Ok, more conjecture. Cool, thanks.

Oh sorry. Was the basic logic to complicated or are you just in the denial phase? It's basic economics. It's also all the pro-density arguments you make. The only problem you have is that the specific measures you want to implement - narrow roads, no parking and physical impediments - decrease rather than increase population density.

Oh, cool. City development is basic economics. Who knew it was so simple?

You're showing your ignorance here.

Isn't it. I mean all we have to do is increase congestion, remove parking and make walking more complicated. Once we reduce access and demand then we'll have an economic nirvana.

1. Remove sidewalks, bike lanes, bus stuff, add travel lanes and parking
2. ?
3. Profit!

Interesting that you say that. Nobody has proposed any of that. What is being demanded is eliminating roads, narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments with the specific and stated goal of increasing congestion in order to reduce demand which will somehow miraculously result in more business and a population increase. This is a phenomenally stupid idea.

What is being "demanded" is traffic calming and creating space for other forms of transit - bus, pedestrian, bike. Traffic calming, by definition, slows down traffic. No, you do not have the right to drive through DC at 50MPH and block other forms of transit with your free parking.

What you're claiming (in the absence of all evidence) is that traffic calming ruins business.

Come on say what you mean instead of hiding behind euphemisms. The traffic "calming" proposals are narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments.

The big irony is that none of that calms anything. Instead it increases frustration and congestion. That is your stated goal. To make driving so bad and inconvenient that they look for alternatives. The problem with that is that those alternatives will be other areas.



People do not drive through DC at 50mph. There is too much traffic to do that.

This. 100%

Nobody is going to switch to bikes because traffic is bad. That’s laughable. One thing that will definitely happen is people will circulate less. They won’t move about the city as much and stay closer to home. Hard to see how that’s in anyone interest. But our city is ruled by people who are not just ignorant of economics but actively hostile to it.

This is happening in other cities as well. Museums in San Francisco struggle to survive with the reduced flow of people that has come with closing roads to car traffic. It’s really terrible.

A lot of businesses are leaving DC for the suburbs. There aren’t enough people to sustain their businesses when you take away all the parking, make it too difficult to drive, etc. My guess is that at some point, the city will have to tear out a lot of the bike infrastructure because it hurts businesses (and tax revenue) so much. It’s just not economically viable.

You’re funny!!!!

NP, here. A few years ago, DC changed the lane patterns of Wisconsin Ave near Glover Park. They basically made Wisconsin two lanes rather than four lanes through Glover Park. It created a horrific traffic bottleneck and they had to undo -- at taxpayer expense - everything and go back to the original configuration. This is what's going to happen downtown. It just hasn't been tested yet because people aren't fully. back to working in offices. Once traffic returns all hell will break lose and this experiment will need to be undone.

Smaller, walkable/bikeable streets are better for business than multi lane thoroughfares. Those wanting multi lane throughfares aren’t stopping to shop, they are speeding through as quickly as possible. Foot traffic and bike traffic = customers for businesses on smaller streets.

I don’t think this is true. The Wharf, Pike and Rose and the Mosaic district are doing very well by providing a walkable destination that’s conveniently accessible with abundant parking. Take away the accessibility and parking and the best case result is Georgetown, which is aided by a waterfront, university and historic district.

Just explain where this foot traffic with disposable income is supposed to come from.

Parking at the wharf is one of the greatest nightmares of my life.

The anti-car brigade thought there should be even fewer parking spaces when in fact they should have built more. Less parking than present would make it not worthwhile to visit.

And yet somehow the Wharf is always packed with people … what it really needs is a shuttle from l’enfant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just so you know. The owner of Bread Furst himself has said that the location was specifically picked because of parking, visibility and neighborhood household income. He would be the absolute last person to want to make Connecticut a one lane road without parking.

I can't speak for the owner of Bread Furst, but many business owners are in favor of traffic calming. They know that a lot of their business comes from people who arrive on foot, and they don't enjoy risking their own lives getting to work.

Oh please do share the names of these businesses that are clamoring for narrower streets, no parking and physical impediments.

Business owners hate it when it’s easy for people to come to their stores

Totally. I just dug up this really interesting research from NYC that is strong support for traffic calming being very good for local business.

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/dot-economic-benefits-of-sustainable-streets.pdf

This is a straw man. The issue is not how calm the traffic is, the issue is whether the traffic can stop and spend. TaKe away parking and take away curbside access (hello bike lane) and those businesses will fail.

Lol, bikers spend quite a bit and don't waste valuable parking spaces.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/more-businesses-in-san-diego-begin-to-embrace-bike-lanes/2951045/

The only problem is that the number of bikers is tiny.

And they make it harder to walk around because they don't follow traffic rules

"There's so few of them that they make it hard to walk around, and I'm going to ignore the vehicles that actually kill pedestrians" is a very interesting take. Like, some real five dimensional logical. Or just pure BS. Yeah, pure BS. Thanks.

I know these are difficult concepts and helmet laws are a relatively new phenomenon but try and follow:

The argument you proferred was that bicylists and bike lanes would be economically beneficial to retail businesses. That they would make up any business lost due to lost parking etc. The problem with that argument is two fold and for two different reasons. Firstly there arent anywhere near enough bicyclists, especially yearround, to make up that volume and secondly, any benfits from increased pedestrianization due to less cars is completely offset by bike lanes due to bicyclists not stopping at lights and stop signs. In short, there are not enough bicyclists to make up lost demand AND pedestrian access is not improved.

1. You don't know how much business will be lost from removal of some parking. It's not 100% and it may not even be a large percent.
2. You don't know how much increased business comes from bicyclists and pedestrians.
You're just making stuff up to fit your narrative. Please go back to grade school for how to make an argument.

Really? Physician, heal thyself.

Narrower lanes, no parking, and physical impediments will not increase either density or business. Increased density requires wider not narrower lanes. Increased walkability requires no physical impediments and no bike thoroughfares. Parking is a function of density. If there is enough density, 300% more than now, then parking is less necessary but the catch-22 is that in order to get past the first stages of increased density there needs to be more parking.

That is the problem of using "pedestrian safety" and economic development as a stalking horse for bike lanes. Bike lanes do neither while the anti-car measures actively harm economic development by reducing access and demand. DC has nowhere near the level of population density for neighborhoods to be entirely self-sustaining.

Ok, more conjecture. Cool, thanks.

Oh sorry. Was the basic logic to complicated or are you just in the denial phase? It's basic economics. It's also all the pro-density arguments you make. The only problem you have is that the specific measures you want to implement - narrow roads, no parking and physical impediments - decrease rather than increase population density.

Oh, cool. City development is basic economics. Who knew it was so simple?

You're showing your ignorance here.

Isn't it. I mean all we have to do is increase congestion, remove parking and make walking more complicated. Once we reduce access and demand then we'll have an economic nirvana.

1. Remove sidewalks, bike lanes, bus stuff, add travel lanes and parking
2. ?
3. Profit!

Interesting that you say that. Nobody has proposed any of that. What is being demanded is eliminating roads, narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments with the specific and stated goal of increasing congestion in order to reduce demand which will somehow miraculously result in more business and a population increase. This is a phenomenally stupid idea.

What is being "demanded" is traffic calming and creating space for other forms of transit - bus, pedestrian, bike. Traffic calming, by definition, slows down traffic. No, you do not have the right to drive through DC at 50MPH and block other forms of transit with your free parking.

What you're claiming (in the absence of all evidence) is that traffic calming ruins business.

Come on say what you mean instead of hiding behind euphemisms. The traffic "calming" proposals are narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments.

The big irony is that none of that calms anything. Instead it increases frustration and congestion. That is your stated goal. To make driving so bad and inconvenient that they look for alternatives. The problem with that is that those alternatives will be other areas.



People do not drive through DC at 50mph. There is too much traffic to do that.

This. 100%

Nobody is going to switch to bikes because traffic is bad. That’s laughable. One thing that will definitely happen is people will circulate less. They won’t move about the city as much and stay closer to home. Hard to see how that’s in anyone interest. But our city is ruled by people who are not just ignorant of economics but actively hostile to it.

It’s a recipe for turning DC into enclaves, further entrenching socio-economic and racial divides in an already segregated city.

Suburbs only accessible by car we're literally set up to segregate us into racial and socio-economic enclaves. Suggest you learn some history first.

This is not about suburbs. The discussion is about DC. So you don’t disagree that the result of this policy which makes it harder for people to freely circulate throughout the city will further exacerbate inequality?

Hear! Hear! Also, take a look at how many cyclists you encounter/see any given day during your commute. On almost every occasion, I see fewer than 20 and typically fewer than 10. All this to benefit a superminority of mostly whiny virtue-signaling white folks in lycra. The vast majority of people are not going to drop their kids off to school and then continue on to work via bicycle. And the metro is in vast need of an overhaul and also is not exactly the transport of choice during a pandemic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just so you know. The owner of Bread Furst himself has said that the location was specifically picked because of parking, visibility and neighborhood household income. He would be the absolute last person to want to make Connecticut a one lane road without parking.

I can't speak for the owner of Bread Furst, but many business owners are in favor of traffic calming. They know that a lot of their business comes from people who arrive on foot, and they don't enjoy risking their own lives getting to work.

Oh please do share the names of these businesses that are clamoring for narrower streets, no parking and physical impediments.

Business owners hate it when it’s easy for people to come to their stores

Totally. I just dug up this really interesting research from NYC that is strong support for traffic calming being very good for local business.

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/dot-economic-benefits-of-sustainable-streets.pdf

This is a straw man. The issue is not how calm the traffic is, the issue is whether the traffic can stop and spend. TaKe away parking and take away curbside access (hello bike lane) and those businesses will fail.

Lol, bikers spend quite a bit and don't waste valuable parking spaces.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/more-businesses-in-san-diego-begin-to-embrace-bike-lanes/2951045/

The only problem is that the number of bikers is tiny.

And they make it harder to walk around because they don't follow traffic rules

"There's so few of them that they make it hard to walk around, and I'm going to ignore the vehicles that actually kill pedestrians" is a very interesting take. Like, some real five dimensional logical. Or just pure BS. Yeah, pure BS. Thanks.

I know these are difficult concepts and helmet laws are a relatively new phenomenon but try and follow:

The argument you proferred was that bicylists and bike lanes would be economically beneficial to retail businesses. That they would make up any business lost due to lost parking etc. The problem with that argument is two fold and for two different reasons. Firstly there arent anywhere near enough bicyclists, especially yearround, to make up that volume and secondly, any benfits from increased pedestrianization due to less cars is completely offset by bike lanes due to bicyclists not stopping at lights and stop signs. In short, there are not enough bicyclists to make up lost demand AND pedestrian access is not improved.

1. You don't know how much business will be lost from removal of some parking. It's not 100% and it may not even be a large percent.
2. You don't know how much increased business comes from bicyclists and pedestrians.
You're just making stuff up to fit your narrative. Please go back to grade school for how to make an argument.

Really? Physician, heal thyself.

Narrower lanes, no parking, and physical impediments will not increase either density or business. Increased density requires wider not narrower lanes. Increased walkability requires no physical impediments and no bike thoroughfares. Parking is a function of density. If there is enough density, 300% more than now, then parking is less necessary but the catch-22 is that in order to get past the first stages of increased density there needs to be more parking.

That is the problem of using "pedestrian safety" and economic development as a stalking horse for bike lanes. Bike lanes do neither while the anti-car measures actively harm economic development by reducing access and demand. DC has nowhere near the level of population density for neighborhoods to be entirely self-sustaining.

Ok, more conjecture. Cool, thanks.

Oh sorry. Was the basic logic to complicated or are you just in the denial phase? It's basic economics. It's also all the pro-density arguments you make. The only problem you have is that the specific measures you want to implement - narrow roads, no parking and physical impediments - decrease rather than increase population density.

Oh, cool. City development is basic economics. Who knew it was so simple?

You're showing your ignorance here.

Isn't it. I mean all we have to do is increase congestion, remove parking and make walking more complicated. Once we reduce access and demand then we'll have an economic nirvana.

1. Remove sidewalks, bike lanes, bus stuff, add travel lanes and parking
2. ?
3. Profit!

Interesting that you say that. Nobody has proposed any of that. What is being demanded is eliminating roads, narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments with the specific and stated goal of increasing congestion in order to reduce demand which will somehow miraculously result in more business and a population increase. This is a phenomenally stupid idea.

What is being "demanded" is traffic calming and creating space for other forms of transit - bus, pedestrian, bike. Traffic calming, by definition, slows down traffic. No, you do not have the right to drive through DC at 50MPH and block other forms of transit with your free parking.

What you're claiming (in the absence of all evidence) is that traffic calming ruins business.

Come on say what you mean instead of hiding behind euphemisms. The traffic "calming" proposals are narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments.

The big irony is that none of that calms anything. Instead it increases frustration and congestion. That is your stated goal. To make driving so bad and inconvenient that they look for alternatives. The problem with that is that those alternatives will be other areas.



People do not drive through DC at 50mph. There is too much traffic to do that.

This. 100%

Nobody is going to switch to bikes because traffic is bad. That’s laughable. One thing that will definitely happen is people will circulate less. They won’t move about the city as much and stay closer to home. Hard to see how that’s in anyone interest. But our city is ruled by people who are not just ignorant of economics but actively hostile to it.

This is happening in other cities as well. Museums in San Francisco struggle to survive with the reduced flow of people that has come with closing roads to car traffic. It’s really terrible.

A lot of businesses are leaving DC for the suburbs. There aren’t enough people to sustain their businesses when you take away all the parking, make it too difficult to drive, etc. My guess is that at some point, the city will have to tear out a lot of the bike infrastructure because it hurts businesses (and tax revenue) so much. It’s just not economically viable.

You’re funny!!!!

NP, here. A few years ago, DC changed the lane patterns of Wisconsin Ave near Glover Park. They basically made Wisconsin two lanes rather than four lanes through Glover Park. It created a horrific traffic bottleneck and they had to undo -- at taxpayer expense - everything and go back to the original configuration. This is what's going to happen downtown. It just hasn't been tested yet because people aren't fully. back to working in offices. Once traffic returns all hell will break lose and this experiment will need to be undone.

Smaller, walkable/bikeable streets are better for business than multi lane thoroughfares. Those wanting multi lane throughfares aren’t stopping to shop, they are speeding through as quickly as possible. Foot traffic and bike traffic = customers for businesses on smaller streets.

I don’t think this is true. The Wharf, Pike and Rose and the Mosaic district are doing very well by providing a walkable destination that’s conveniently accessible with abundant parking. Take away the accessibility and parking and the best case result is Georgetown, which is aided by a waterfront, university and historic district.

Just explain where this foot traffic with disposable income is supposed to come from.

Parking at the wharf is one of the greatest nightmares of my life.

The anti-car brigade thought there should be even fewer parking spaces when in fact they should have built more. Less parking than present would make it not worthwhile to visit.

There aren't parking spaces. There's (over) paid garage parking. I much prefer riding my bike over and locking it up, or alternatively taking metro.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just so you know. The owner of Bread Furst himself has said that the location was specifically picked because of parking, visibility and neighborhood household income. He would be the absolute last person to want to make Connecticut a one lane road without parking.

I can't speak for the owner of Bread Furst, but many business owners are in favor of traffic calming. They know that a lot of their business comes from people who arrive on foot, and they don't enjoy risking their own lives getting to work.

Oh please do share the names of these businesses that are clamoring for narrower streets, no parking and physical impediments.

Business owners hate it when it’s easy for people to come to their stores

Totally. I just dug up this really interesting research from NYC that is strong support for traffic calming being very good for local business.

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/dot-economic-benefits-of-sustainable-streets.pdf

This is a straw man. The issue is not how calm the traffic is, the issue is whether the traffic can stop and spend. TaKe away parking and take away curbside access (hello bike lane) and those businesses will fail.

Lol, bikers spend quite a bit and don't waste valuable parking spaces.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/more-businesses-in-san-diego-begin-to-embrace-bike-lanes/2951045/

The only problem is that the number of bikers is tiny.

And they make it harder to walk around because they don't follow traffic rules

"There's so few of them that they make it hard to walk around, and I'm going to ignore the vehicles that actually kill pedestrians" is a very interesting take. Like, some real five dimensional logical. Or just pure BS. Yeah, pure BS. Thanks.

I know these are difficult concepts and helmet laws are a relatively new phenomenon but try and follow:

The argument you proferred was that bicylists and bike lanes would be economically beneficial to retail businesses. That they would make up any business lost due to lost parking etc. The problem with that argument is two fold and for two different reasons. Firstly there arent anywhere near enough bicyclists, especially yearround, to make up that volume and secondly, any benfits from increased pedestrianization due to less cars is completely offset by bike lanes due to bicyclists not stopping at lights and stop signs. In short, there are not enough bicyclists to make up lost demand AND pedestrian access is not improved.

1. You don't know how much business will be lost from removal of some parking. It's not 100% and it may not even be a large percent.
2. You don't know how much increased business comes from bicyclists and pedestrians.
You're just making stuff up to fit your narrative. Please go back to grade school for how to make an argument.

Really? Physician, heal thyself.

Narrower lanes, no parking, and physical impediments will not increase either density or business. Increased density requires wider not narrower lanes. Increased walkability requires no physical impediments and no bike thoroughfares. Parking is a function of density. If there is enough density, 300% more than now, then parking is less necessary but the catch-22 is that in order to get past the first stages of increased density there needs to be more parking.

That is the problem of using "pedestrian safety" and economic development as a stalking horse for bike lanes. Bike lanes do neither while the anti-car measures actively harm economic development by reducing access and demand. DC has nowhere near the level of population density for neighborhoods to be entirely self-sustaining.

Ok, more conjecture. Cool, thanks.

Oh sorry. Was the basic logic to complicated or are you just in the denial phase? It's basic economics. It's also all the pro-density arguments you make. The only problem you have is that the specific measures you want to implement - narrow roads, no parking and physical impediments - decrease rather than increase population density.

Oh, cool. City development is basic economics. Who knew it was so simple?

You're showing your ignorance here.

Isn't it. I mean all we have to do is increase congestion, remove parking and make walking more complicated. Once we reduce access and demand then we'll have an economic nirvana.

1. Remove sidewalks, bike lanes, bus stuff, add travel lanes and parking
2. ?
3. Profit!

Interesting that you say that. Nobody has proposed any of that. What is being demanded is eliminating roads, narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments with the specific and stated goal of increasing congestion in order to reduce demand which will somehow miraculously result in more business and a population increase. This is a phenomenally stupid idea.

What is being "demanded" is traffic calming and creating space for other forms of transit - bus, pedestrian, bike. Traffic calming, by definition, slows down traffic. No, you do not have the right to drive through DC at 50MPH and block other forms of transit with your free parking.

What you're claiming (in the absence of all evidence) is that traffic calming ruins business.

Come on say what you mean instead of hiding behind euphemisms. The traffic "calming" proposals are narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments.

The big irony is that none of that calms anything. Instead it increases frustration and congestion. That is your stated goal. To make driving so bad and inconvenient that they look for alternatives. The problem with that is that those alternatives will be other areas.



People do not drive through DC at 50mph. There is too much traffic to do that.

This. 100%

Nobody is going to switch to bikes because traffic is bad. That’s laughable. One thing that will definitely happen is people will circulate less. They won’t move about the city as much and stay closer to home. Hard to see how that’s in anyone interest. But our city is ruled by people who are not just ignorant of economics but actively hostile to it.

It’s a recipe for turning DC into enclaves, further entrenching socio-economic and racial divides in an already segregated city.

Suburbs only accessible by car we're literally set up to segregate us into racial and socio-economic enclaves. Suggest you learn some history first.

This is not about suburbs. The discussion is about DC. So you don’t disagree that the result of this policy which makes it harder for people to freely circulate throughout the city will further exacerbate inequality?

Hear! Hear! Also, take a look at how many cyclists you encounter/see any given day during your commute. On almost every occasion, I see fewer than 20 and typically fewer than 10. All this to benefit a superminority of mostly whiny virtue-signaling white folks in lycra. The vast majority of people are not going to drop their kids off to school and then continue on to work via bicycle. And the metro is in vast need of an overhaul and also is not exactly the transport of choice during a pandemic.

Bikes are about 8% of trips in the core of DC and growing very quickly. Walking is "just" about 11%. Driving alone as the share of trips in core DC is plummeting. So your perception is wrong.

https://ggwash.org/view/80233/the-bike-boom-is-real-says-new-mode-share-data-regional-travel-survey

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just so you know. The owner of Bread Furst himself has said that the location was specifically picked because of parking, visibility and neighborhood household income. He would be the absolute last person to want to make Connecticut a one lane road without parking.

I can't speak for the owner of Bread Furst, but many business owners are in favor of traffic calming. They know that a lot of their business comes from people who arrive on foot, and they don't enjoy risking their own lives getting to work.

Oh please do share the names of these businesses that are clamoring for narrower streets, no parking and physical impediments.

Business owners hate it when it’s easy for people to come to their stores

Totally. I just dug up this really interesting research from NYC that is strong support for traffic calming being very good for local business.

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/dot-economic-benefits-of-sustainable-streets.pdf

This is a straw man. The issue is not how calm the traffic is, the issue is whether the traffic can stop and spend. TaKe away parking and take away curbside access (hello bike lane) and those businesses will fail.

Lol, bikers spend quite a bit and don't waste valuable parking spaces.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/more-businesses-in-san-diego-begin-to-embrace-bike-lanes/2951045/

The only problem is that the number of bikers is tiny.

And they make it harder to walk around because they don't follow traffic rules

"There's so few of them that they make it hard to walk around, and I'm going to ignore the vehicles that actually kill pedestrians" is a very interesting take. Like, some real five dimensional logical. Or just pure BS. Yeah, pure BS. Thanks.

I know these are difficult concepts and helmet laws are a relatively new phenomenon but try and follow:

The argument you proferred was that bicylists and bike lanes would be economically beneficial to retail businesses. That they would make up any business lost due to lost parking etc. The problem with that argument is two fold and for two different reasons. Firstly there arent anywhere near enough bicyclists, especially yearround, to make up that volume and secondly, any benfits from increased pedestrianization due to less cars is completely offset by bike lanes due to bicyclists not stopping at lights and stop signs. In short, there are not enough bicyclists to make up lost demand AND pedestrian access is not improved.

1. You don't know how much business will be lost from removal of some parking. It's not 100% and it may not even be a large percent.
2. You don't know how much increased business comes from bicyclists and pedestrians.
You're just making stuff up to fit your narrative. Please go back to grade school for how to make an argument.

Really? Physician, heal thyself.

Narrower lanes, no parking, and physical impediments will not increase either density or business. Increased density requires wider not narrower lanes. Increased walkability requires no physical impediments and no bike thoroughfares. Parking is a function of density. If there is enough density, 300% more than now, then parking is less necessary but the catch-22 is that in order to get past the first stages of increased density there needs to be more parking.

That is the problem of using "pedestrian safety" and economic development as a stalking horse for bike lanes. Bike lanes do neither while the anti-car measures actively harm economic development by reducing access and demand. DC has nowhere near the level of population density for neighborhoods to be entirely self-sustaining.

Ok, more conjecture. Cool, thanks.

Oh sorry. Was the basic logic to complicated or are you just in the denial phase? It's basic economics. It's also all the pro-density arguments you make. The only problem you have is that the specific measures you want to implement - narrow roads, no parking and physical impediments - decrease rather than increase population density.

Oh, cool. City development is basic economics. Who knew it was so simple?

You're showing your ignorance here.

Isn't it. I mean all we have to do is increase congestion, remove parking and make walking more complicated. Once we reduce access and demand then we'll have an economic nirvana.

1. Remove sidewalks, bike lanes, bus stuff, add travel lanes and parking
2. ?
3. Profit!

Interesting that you say that. Nobody has proposed any of that. What is being demanded is eliminating roads, narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments with the specific and stated goal of increasing congestion in order to reduce demand which will somehow miraculously result in more business and a population increase. This is a phenomenally stupid idea.

What is being "demanded" is traffic calming and creating space for other forms of transit - bus, pedestrian, bike. Traffic calming, by definition, slows down traffic. No, you do not have the right to drive through DC at 50MPH and block other forms of transit with your free parking.

What you're claiming (in the absence of all evidence) is that traffic calming ruins business.

Come on say what you mean instead of hiding behind euphemisms. The traffic "calming" proposals are narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments.

The big irony is that none of that calms anything. Instead it increases frustration and congestion. That is your stated goal. To make driving so bad and inconvenient that they look for alternatives. The problem with that is that those alternatives will be other areas.



People do not drive through DC at 50mph. There is too much traffic to do that.

This. 100%

Nobody is going to switch to bikes because traffic is bad. That’s laughable. One thing that will definitely happen is people will circulate less. They won’t move about the city as much and stay closer to home. Hard to see how that’s in anyone interest. But our city is ruled by people who are not just ignorant of economics but actively hostile to it.

It’s a recipe for turning DC into enclaves, further entrenching socio-economic and racial divides in an already segregated city.

Suburbs only accessible by car we're literally set up to segregate us into racial and socio-economic enclaves. Suggest you learn some history first.

This is not about suburbs. The discussion is about DC. So you don’t disagree that the result of this policy which makes it harder for people to freely circulate throughout the city will further exacerbate inequality?

Hear! Hear! Also, take a look at how many cyclists you encounter/see any given day during your commute. On almost every occasion, I see fewer than 20 and typically fewer than 10. All this to benefit a superminority of mostly whiny virtue-signaling white folks in lycra. The vast majority of people are not going to drop their kids off to school and then continue on to work via bicycle. And the metro is in vast need of an overhaul and also is not exactly the transport of choice during a pandemic.

Bikes are about 8% of trips in the core of DC and growing very quickly. Walking is "just" about 11%. Driving alone as the share of trips in core DC is plummeting. So your perception is wrong.

https://ggwash.org/view/80233/the-bike-boom-is-real-says-new-mode-share-data-regional-travel-survey

...because of the pandemic.

So 81% of trips are cars then? "Driving alone". Give me a break. They're not counting driving, parking and then walking as driving. That is complete disengenuous spin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just so you know. The owner of Bread Furst himself has said that the location was specifically picked because of parking, visibility and neighborhood household income. He would be the absolute last person to want to make Connecticut a one lane road without parking.

I can't speak for the owner of Bread Furst, but many business owners are in favor of traffic calming. They know that a lot of their business comes from people who arrive on foot, and they don't enjoy risking their own lives getting to work.

Oh please do share the names of these businesses that are clamoring for narrower streets, no parking and physical impediments.

Business owners hate it when it’s easy for people to come to their stores

Totally. I just dug up this really interesting research from NYC that is strong support for traffic calming being very good for local business.

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/dot-economic-benefits-of-sustainable-streets.pdf

This is a straw man. The issue is not how calm the traffic is, the issue is whether the traffic can stop and spend. TaKe away parking and take away curbside access (hello bike lane) and those businesses will fail.

Lol, bikers spend quite a bit and don't waste valuable parking spaces.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/more-businesses-in-san-diego-begin-to-embrace-bike-lanes/2951045/

The only problem is that the number of bikers is tiny.

And they make it harder to walk around because they don't follow traffic rules

"There's so few of them that they make it hard to walk around, and I'm going to ignore the vehicles that actually kill pedestrians" is a very interesting take. Like, some real five dimensional logical. Or just pure BS. Yeah, pure BS. Thanks.

I know these are difficult concepts and helmet laws are a relatively new phenomenon but try and follow:

The argument you proferred was that bicylists and bike lanes would be economically beneficial to retail businesses. That they would make up any business lost due to lost parking etc. The problem with that argument is two fold and for two different reasons. Firstly there arent anywhere near enough bicyclists, especially yearround, to make up that volume and secondly, any benfits from increased pedestrianization due to less cars is completely offset by bike lanes due to bicyclists not stopping at lights and stop signs. In short, there are not enough bicyclists to make up lost demand AND pedestrian access is not improved.

1. You don't know how much business will be lost from removal of some parking. It's not 100% and it may not even be a large percent.
2. You don't know how much increased business comes from bicyclists and pedestrians.
You're just making stuff up to fit your narrative. Please go back to grade school for how to make an argument.

Really? Physician, heal thyself.

Narrower lanes, no parking, and physical impediments will not increase either density or business. Increased density requires wider not narrower lanes. Increased walkability requires no physical impediments and no bike thoroughfares. Parking is a function of density. If there is enough density, 300% more than now, then parking is less necessary but the catch-22 is that in order to get past the first stages of increased density there needs to be more parking.

That is the problem of using "pedestrian safety" and economic development as a stalking horse for bike lanes. Bike lanes do neither while the anti-car measures actively harm economic development by reducing access and demand. DC has nowhere near the level of population density for neighborhoods to be entirely self-sustaining.

Ok, more conjecture. Cool, thanks.

Oh sorry. Was the basic logic to complicated or are you just in the denial phase? It's basic economics. It's also all the pro-density arguments you make. The only problem you have is that the specific measures you want to implement - narrow roads, no parking and physical impediments - decrease rather than increase population density.

Oh, cool. City development is basic economics. Who knew it was so simple?

You're showing your ignorance here.

Isn't it. I mean all we have to do is increase congestion, remove parking and make walking more complicated. Once we reduce access and demand then we'll have an economic nirvana.

1. Remove sidewalks, bike lanes, bus stuff, add travel lanes and parking
2. ?
3. Profit!

Interesting that you say that. Nobody has proposed any of that. What is being demanded is eliminating roads, narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments with the specific and stated goal of increasing congestion in order to reduce demand which will somehow miraculously result in more business and a population increase. This is a phenomenally stupid idea.

What is being "demanded" is traffic calming and creating space for other forms of transit - bus, pedestrian, bike. Traffic calming, by definition, slows down traffic. No, you do not have the right to drive through DC at 50MPH and block other forms of transit with your free parking.

What you're claiming (in the absence of all evidence) is that traffic calming ruins business.

Come on say what you mean instead of hiding behind euphemisms. The traffic "calming" proposals are narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments.

The big irony is that none of that calms anything. Instead it increases frustration and congestion. That is your stated goal. To make driving so bad and inconvenient that they look for alternatives. The problem with that is that those alternatives will be other areas.



People do not drive through DC at 50mph. There is too much traffic to do that.

This. 100%

Nobody is going to switch to bikes because traffic is bad. That’s laughable. One thing that will definitely happen is people will circulate less. They won’t move about the city as much and stay closer to home. Hard to see how that’s in anyone interest. But our city is ruled by people who are not just ignorant of economics but actively hostile to it.

It’s a recipe for turning DC into enclaves, further entrenching socio-economic and racial divides in an already segregated city.

Suburbs only accessible by car we're literally set up to segregate us into racial and socio-economic enclaves. Suggest you learn some history first.

This is not about suburbs. The discussion is about DC. So you don’t disagree that the result of this policy which makes it harder for people to freely circulate throughout the city will further exacerbate inequality?

Hear! Hear! Also, take a look at how many cyclists you encounter/see any given day during your commute. On almost every occasion, I see fewer than 20 and typically fewer than 10. All this to benefit a superminority of mostly whiny virtue-signaling white folks in lycra. The vast majority of people are not going to drop their kids off to school and then continue on to work via bicycle. And the metro is in vast need of an overhaul and also is not exactly the transport of choice during a pandemic.

Bikes are about 8% of trips in the core of DC and growing very quickly. Walking is "just" about 11%. Driving alone as the share of trips in core DC is plummeting. So your perception is wrong.

https://ggwash.org/view/80233/the-bike-boom-is-real-says-new-mode-share-data-regional-travel-survey

...because of the pandemic.

So 81% of trips are cars then? "Driving alone". Give me a break. They're not counting driving, parking and then walking as driving. That is complete disengenuous spin.

That data compares 2007 to 2017, so no, no pandemic impact. If you RTFA, you'll see that in 2017, the types of transit for core DC travel were: 36% drive alone, 4% carpool, 30% metro, 9% bus, 11% walk, 7.6% bike, and 3.4% taxi/rideshare.

I'm surprised bus is so low - I think that's where we could make a lot of improvement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just so you know. The owner of Bread Furst himself has said that the location was specifically picked because of parking, visibility and neighborhood household income. He would be the absolute last person to want to make Connecticut a one lane road without parking.

I can't speak for the owner of Bread Furst, but many business owners are in favor of traffic calming. They know that a lot of their business comes from people who arrive on foot, and they don't enjoy risking their own lives getting to work.

Oh please do share the names of these businesses that are clamoring for narrower streets, no parking and physical impediments.

Business owners hate it when it’s easy for people to come to their stores

Totally. I just dug up this really interesting research from NYC that is strong support for traffic calming being very good for local business.

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/dot-economic-benefits-of-sustainable-streets.pdf

This is a straw man. The issue is not how calm the traffic is, the issue is whether the traffic can stop and spend. TaKe away parking and take away curbside access (hello bike lane) and those businesses will fail.

Lol, bikers spend quite a bit and don't waste valuable parking spaces.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/more-businesses-in-san-diego-begin-to-embrace-bike-lanes/2951045/

The only problem is that the number of bikers is tiny.

And they make it harder to walk around because they don't follow traffic rules

"There's so few of them that they make it hard to walk around, and I'm going to ignore the vehicles that actually kill pedestrians" is a very interesting take. Like, some real five dimensional logical. Or just pure BS. Yeah, pure BS. Thanks.

I know these are difficult concepts and helmet laws are a relatively new phenomenon but try and follow:

The argument you proferred was that bicylists and bike lanes would be economically beneficial to retail businesses. That they would make up any business lost due to lost parking etc. The problem with that argument is two fold and for two different reasons. Firstly there arent anywhere near enough bicyclists, especially yearround, to make up that volume and secondly, any benfits from increased pedestrianization due to less cars is completely offset by bike lanes due to bicyclists not stopping at lights and stop signs. In short, there are not enough bicyclists to make up lost demand AND pedestrian access is not improved.

1. You don't know how much business will be lost from removal of some parking. It's not 100% and it may not even be a large percent.
2. You don't know how much increased business comes from bicyclists and pedestrians.
You're just making stuff up to fit your narrative. Please go back to grade school for how to make an argument.

Really? Physician, heal thyself.

Narrower lanes, no parking, and physical impediments will not increase either density or business. Increased density requires wider not narrower lanes. Increased walkability requires no physical impediments and no bike thoroughfares. Parking is a function of density. If there is enough density, 300% more than now, then parking is less necessary but the catch-22 is that in order to get past the first stages of increased density there needs to be more parking.

That is the problem of using "pedestrian safety" and economic development as a stalking horse for bike lanes. Bike lanes do neither while the anti-car measures actively harm economic development by reducing access and demand. DC has nowhere near the level of population density for neighborhoods to be entirely self-sustaining.

Ok, more conjecture. Cool, thanks.

Oh sorry. Was the basic logic to complicated or are you just in the denial phase? It's basic economics. It's also all the pro-density arguments you make. The only problem you have is that the specific measures you want to implement - narrow roads, no parking and physical impediments - decrease rather than increase population density.

Oh, cool. City development is basic economics. Who knew it was so simple?

You're showing your ignorance here.

Isn't it. I mean all we have to do is increase congestion, remove parking and make walking more complicated. Once we reduce access and demand then we'll have an economic nirvana.

1. Remove sidewalks, bike lanes, bus stuff, add travel lanes and parking
2. ?
3. Profit!

Interesting that you say that. Nobody has proposed any of that. What is being demanded is eliminating roads, narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments with the specific and stated goal of increasing congestion in order to reduce demand which will somehow miraculously result in more business and a population increase. This is a phenomenally stupid idea.

What is being "demanded" is traffic calming and creating space for other forms of transit - bus, pedestrian, bike. Traffic calming, by definition, slows down traffic. No, you do not have the right to drive through DC at 50MPH and block other forms of transit with your free parking.

What you're claiming (in the absence of all evidence) is that traffic calming ruins business.

Come on say what you mean instead of hiding behind euphemisms. The traffic "calming" proposals are narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments.

The big irony is that none of that calms anything. Instead it increases frustration and congestion. That is your stated goal. To make driving so bad and inconvenient that they look for alternatives. The problem with that is that those alternatives will be other areas.



People do not drive through DC at 50mph. There is too much traffic to do that.

This. 100%

Nobody is going to switch to bikes because traffic is bad. That’s laughable. One thing that will definitely happen is people will circulate less. They won’t move about the city as much and stay closer to home. Hard to see how that’s in anyone interest. But our city is ruled by people who are not just ignorant of economics but actively hostile to it.

This is happening in other cities as well. Museums in San Francisco struggle to survive with the reduced flow of people that has come with closing roads to car traffic. It’s really terrible.

A lot of businesses are leaving DC for the suburbs. There aren’t enough people to sustain their businesses when you take away all the parking, make it too difficult to drive, etc. My guess is that at some point, the city will have to tear out a lot of the bike infrastructure because it hurts businesses (and tax revenue) so much. It’s just not economically viable.

You’re funny!!!!

NP, here. A few years ago, DC changed the lane patterns of Wisconsin Ave near Glover Park. They basically made Wisconsin two lanes rather than four lanes through Glover Park. It created a horrific traffic bottleneck and they had to undo -- at taxpayer expense - everything and go back to the original configuration. This is what's going to happen downtown. It just hasn't been tested yet because people aren't fully. back to working in offices. Once traffic returns all hell will break lose and this experiment will need to be undone.

Smaller, walkable/bikeable streets are better for business than multi lane thoroughfares. Those wanting multi lane throughfares aren’t stopping to shop, they are speeding through as quickly as possible. Foot traffic and bike traffic = customers for businesses on smaller streets.

I don’t think this is true. The Wharf, Pike and Rose and the Mosaic district are doing very well by providing a walkable destination that’s conveniently accessible with abundant parking. Take away the accessibility and parking and the best case result is Georgetown, which is aided by a waterfront, university and historic district.

Just explain where this foot traffic with disposable income is supposed to come from.

Parking at the wharf is one of the greatest nightmares of my life.

The anti-car brigade thought there should be even fewer parking spaces when in fact they should have built more. Less parking than present would make it not worthwhile to visit.

There aren't parking spaces. There's (over) paid garage parking. I much prefer riding my bike over and locking it up, or alternatively taking metro.

Garage parking spaces are still parking spaces.

I agree about the cost and that's going to be a problem for the development long term as the initial shine continues to wear off. But, pricing is something they can adjust. Access is what's important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just so you know. The owner of Bread Furst himself has said that the location was specifically picked because of parking, visibility and neighborhood household income. He would be the absolute last person to want to make Connecticut a one lane road without parking.

I can't speak for the owner of Bread Furst, but many business owners are in favor of traffic calming. They know that a lot of their business comes from people who arrive on foot, and they don't enjoy risking their own lives getting to work.

Oh please do share the names of these businesses that are clamoring for narrower streets, no parking and physical impediments.

Business owners hate it when it’s easy for people to come to their stores

Totally. I just dug up this really interesting research from NYC that is strong support for traffic calming being very good for local business.

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/dot-economic-benefits-of-sustainable-streets.pdf

This is a straw man. The issue is not how calm the traffic is, the issue is whether the traffic can stop and spend. TaKe away parking and take away curbside access (hello bike lane) and those businesses will fail.

Lol, bikers spend quite a bit and don't waste valuable parking spaces.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/more-businesses-in-san-diego-begin-to-embrace-bike-lanes/2951045/

The only problem is that the number of bikers is tiny.

And they make it harder to walk around because they don't follow traffic rules

"There's so few of them that they make it hard to walk around, and I'm going to ignore the vehicles that actually kill pedestrians" is a very interesting take. Like, some real five dimensional logical. Or just pure BS. Yeah, pure BS. Thanks.

I know these are difficult concepts and helmet laws are a relatively new phenomenon but try and follow:

The argument you proferred was that bicylists and bike lanes would be economically beneficial to retail businesses. That they would make up any business lost due to lost parking etc. The problem with that argument is two fold and for two different reasons. Firstly there arent anywhere near enough bicyclists, especially yearround, to make up that volume and secondly, any benfits from increased pedestrianization due to less cars is completely offset by bike lanes due to bicyclists not stopping at lights and stop signs. In short, there are not enough bicyclists to make up lost demand AND pedestrian access is not improved.

1. You don't know how much business will be lost from removal of some parking. It's not 100% and it may not even be a large percent.
2. You don't know how much increased business comes from bicyclists and pedestrians.
You're just making stuff up to fit your narrative. Please go back to grade school for how to make an argument.

Really? Physician, heal thyself.

Narrower lanes, no parking, and physical impediments will not increase either density or business. Increased density requires wider not narrower lanes. Increased walkability requires no physical impediments and no bike thoroughfares. Parking is a function of density. If there is enough density, 300% more than now, then parking is less necessary but the catch-22 is that in order to get past the first stages of increased density there needs to be more parking.

That is the problem of using "pedestrian safety" and economic development as a stalking horse for bike lanes. Bike lanes do neither while the anti-car measures actively harm economic development by reducing access and demand. DC has nowhere near the level of population density for neighborhoods to be entirely self-sustaining.

Ok, more conjecture. Cool, thanks.

Oh sorry. Was the basic logic to complicated or are you just in the denial phase? It's basic economics. It's also all the pro-density arguments you make. The only problem you have is that the specific measures you want to implement - narrow roads, no parking and physical impediments - decrease rather than increase population density.

Oh, cool. City development is basic economics. Who knew it was so simple?

You're showing your ignorance here.

Isn't it. I mean all we have to do is increase congestion, remove parking and make walking more complicated. Once we reduce access and demand then we'll have an economic nirvana.

1. Remove sidewalks, bike lanes, bus stuff, add travel lanes and parking
2. ?
3. Profit!

Interesting that you say that. Nobody has proposed any of that. What is being demanded is eliminating roads, narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments with the specific and stated goal of increasing congestion in order to reduce demand which will somehow miraculously result in more business and a population increase. This is a phenomenally stupid idea.

What is being "demanded" is traffic calming and creating space for other forms of transit - bus, pedestrian, bike. Traffic calming, by definition, slows down traffic. No, you do not have the right to drive through DC at 50MPH and block other forms of transit with your free parking.

What you're claiming (in the absence of all evidence) is that traffic calming ruins business.

Come on say what you mean instead of hiding behind euphemisms. The traffic "calming" proposals are narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments.

The big irony is that none of that calms anything. Instead it increases frustration and congestion. That is your stated goal. To make driving so bad and inconvenient that they look for alternatives. The problem with that is that those alternatives will be other areas.



People do not drive through DC at 50mph. There is too much traffic to do that.

This. 100%

Nobody is going to switch to bikes because traffic is bad. That’s laughable. One thing that will definitely happen is people will circulate less. They won’t move about the city as much and stay closer to home. Hard to see how that’s in anyone interest. But our city is ruled by people who are not just ignorant of economics but actively hostile to it.

This is happening in other cities as well. Museums in San Francisco struggle to survive with the reduced flow of people that has come with closing roads to car traffic. It’s really terrible.

A lot of businesses are leaving DC for the suburbs. There aren’t enough people to sustain their businesses when you take away all the parking, make it too difficult to drive, etc. My guess is that at some point, the city will have to tear out a lot of the bike infrastructure because it hurts businesses (and tax revenue) so much. It’s just not economically viable.

You’re funny!!!!

NP, here. A few years ago, DC changed the lane patterns of Wisconsin Ave near Glover Park. They basically made Wisconsin two lanes rather than four lanes through Glover Park. It created a horrific traffic bottleneck and they had to undo -- at taxpayer expense - everything and go back to the original configuration. This is what's going to happen downtown. It just hasn't been tested yet because people aren't fully. back to working in offices. Once traffic returns all hell will break lose and this experiment will need to be undone.

Smaller, walkable/bikeable streets are better for business than multi lane thoroughfares. Those wanting multi lane throughfares aren’t stopping to shop, they are speeding through as quickly as possible. Foot traffic and bike traffic = customers for businesses on smaller streets.

I don’t think this is true. The Wharf, Pike and Rose and the Mosaic district are doing very well by providing a walkable destination that’s conveniently accessible with abundant parking. Take away the accessibility and parking and the best case result is Georgetown, which is aided by a waterfront, university and historic district.

Just explain where this foot traffic with disposable income is supposed to come from.

Parking at the wharf is one of the greatest nightmares of my life.

The anti-car brigade thought there should be even fewer parking spaces when in fact they should have built more. Less parking than present would make it not worthwhile to visit.

There aren't parking spaces. There's (over) paid garage parking. I much prefer riding my bike over and locking it up, or alternatively taking metro.

Garage parking spaces are still parking spaces.

I agree about the cost and that's going to be a problem for the development long term as the initial shine continues to wear off. But, pricing is something they can adjust. Access is what's important.

I mean, surrounding the Wharf with free public parking lots (presumably what you wanted?) would have been impossible. Access is a better connection from L'Enfant and Waterfront metros, not more parking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just so you know. The owner of Bread Furst himself has said that the location was specifically picked because of parking, visibility and neighborhood household income. He would be the absolute last person to want to make Connecticut a one lane road without parking.

I can't speak for the owner of Bread Furst, but many business owners are in favor of traffic calming. They know that a lot of their business comes from people who arrive on foot, and they don't enjoy risking their own lives getting to work.

Oh please do share the names of these businesses that are clamoring for narrower streets, no parking and physical impediments.

Business owners hate it when it’s easy for people to come to their stores

Totally. I just dug up this really interesting research from NYC that is strong support for traffic calming being very good for local business.

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/dot-economic-benefits-of-sustainable-streets.pdf

This is a straw man. The issue is not how calm the traffic is, the issue is whether the traffic can stop and spend. TaKe away parking and take away curbside access (hello bike lane) and those businesses will fail.

Lol, bikers spend quite a bit and don't waste valuable parking spaces.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/more-businesses-in-san-diego-begin-to-embrace-bike-lanes/2951045/

The only problem is that the number of bikers is tiny.

And they make it harder to walk around because they don't follow traffic rules

"There's so few of them that they make it hard to walk around, and I'm going to ignore the vehicles that actually kill pedestrians" is a very interesting take. Like, some real five dimensional logical. Or just pure BS. Yeah, pure BS. Thanks.

I know these are difficult concepts and helmet laws are a relatively new phenomenon but try and follow:

The argument you proferred was that bicylists and bike lanes would be economically beneficial to retail businesses. That they would make up any business lost due to lost parking etc. The problem with that argument is two fold and for two different reasons. Firstly there arent anywhere near enough bicyclists, especially yearround, to make up that volume and secondly, any benfits from increased pedestrianization due to less cars is completely offset by bike lanes due to bicyclists not stopping at lights and stop signs. In short, there are not enough bicyclists to make up lost demand AND pedestrian access is not improved.

1. You don't know how much business will be lost from removal of some parking. It's not 100% and it may not even be a large percent.
2. You don't know how much increased business comes from bicyclists and pedestrians.
You're just making stuff up to fit your narrative. Please go back to grade school for how to make an argument.

Really? Physician, heal thyself.

Narrower lanes, no parking, and physical impediments will not increase either density or business. Increased density requires wider not narrower lanes. Increased walkability requires no physical impediments and no bike thoroughfares. Parking is a function of density. If there is enough density, 300% more than now, then parking is less necessary but the catch-22 is that in order to get past the first stages of increased density there needs to be more parking.

That is the problem of using "pedestrian safety" and economic development as a stalking horse for bike lanes. Bike lanes do neither while the anti-car measures actively harm economic development by reducing access and demand. DC has nowhere near the level of population density for neighborhoods to be entirely self-sustaining.

Ok, more conjecture. Cool, thanks.

Oh sorry. Was the basic logic to complicated or are you just in the denial phase? It's basic economics. It's also all the pro-density arguments you make. The only problem you have is that the specific measures you want to implement - narrow roads, no parking and physical impediments - decrease rather than increase population density.

Oh, cool. City development is basic economics. Who knew it was so simple?

You're showing your ignorance here.

Isn't it. I mean all we have to do is increase congestion, remove parking and make walking more complicated. Once we reduce access and demand then we'll have an economic nirvana.

1. Remove sidewalks, bike lanes, bus stuff, add travel lanes and parking
2. ?
3. Profit!

Interesting that you say that. Nobody has proposed any of that. What is being demanded is eliminating roads, narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments with the specific and stated goal of increasing congestion in order to reduce demand which will somehow miraculously result in more business and a population increase. This is a phenomenally stupid idea.

What is being "demanded" is traffic calming and creating space for other forms of transit - bus, pedestrian, bike. Traffic calming, by definition, slows down traffic. No, you do not have the right to drive through DC at 50MPH and block other forms of transit with your free parking.

What you're claiming (in the absence of all evidence) is that traffic calming ruins business.

Come on say what you mean instead of hiding behind euphemisms. The traffic "calming" proposals are narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments.

The big irony is that none of that calms anything. Instead it increases frustration and congestion. That is your stated goal. To make driving so bad and inconvenient that they look for alternatives. The problem with that is that those alternatives will be other areas.



People do not drive through DC at 50mph. There is too much traffic to do that.

This. 100%

Nobody is going to switch to bikes because traffic is bad. That’s laughable. One thing that will definitely happen is people will circulate less. They won’t move about the city as much and stay closer to home. Hard to see how that’s in anyone interest. But our city is ruled by people who are not just ignorant of economics but actively hostile to it.

This is happening in other cities as well. Museums in San Francisco struggle to survive with the reduced flow of people that has come with closing roads to car traffic. It’s really terrible.

A lot of businesses are leaving DC for the suburbs. There aren’t enough people to sustain their businesses when you take away all the parking, make it too difficult to drive, etc. My guess is that at some point, the city will have to tear out a lot of the bike infrastructure because it hurts businesses (and tax revenue) so much. It’s just not economically viable.

You’re funny!!!!

NP, here. A few years ago, DC changed the lane patterns of Wisconsin Ave near Glover Park. They basically made Wisconsin two lanes rather than four lanes through Glover Park. It created a horrific traffic bottleneck and they had to undo -- at taxpayer expense - everything and go back to the original configuration. This is what's going to happen downtown. It just hasn't been tested yet because people aren't fully. back to working in offices. Once traffic returns all hell will break lose and this experiment will need to be undone.

Smaller, walkable/bikeable streets are better for business than multi lane thoroughfares. Those wanting multi lane throughfares aren’t stopping to shop, they are speeding through as quickly as possible. Foot traffic and bike traffic = customers for businesses on smaller streets.

I don’t think this is true. The Wharf, Pike and Rose and the Mosaic district are doing very well by providing a walkable destination that’s conveniently accessible with abundant parking. Take away the accessibility and parking and the best case result is Georgetown, which is aided by a waterfront, university and historic district.

Just explain where this foot traffic with disposable income is supposed to come from.

Parking at the wharf is one of the greatest nightmares of my life.

The anti-car brigade thought there should be even fewer parking spaces when in fact they should have built more. Less parking than present would make it not worthwhile to visit.

There aren't parking spaces. There's (over) paid garage parking. I much prefer riding my bike over and locking it up, or alternatively taking metro.

Garage parking spaces are still parking spaces.

I agree about the cost and that's going to be a problem for the development long term as the initial shine continues to wear off. But, pricing is something they can adjust. Access is what's important.

I mean, surrounding the Wharf with free public parking lots (presumably what you wanted?) would have been impossible. Access is a better connection from L'Enfant and Waterfront metros, not more parking.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just so you know. The owner of Bread Furst himself has said that the location was specifically picked because of parking, visibility and neighborhood household income. He would be the absolute last person to want to make Connecticut a one lane road without parking.

I can't speak for the owner of Bread Furst, but many business owners are in favor of traffic calming. They know that a lot of their business comes from people who arrive on foot, and they don't enjoy risking their own lives getting to work.

Oh please do share the names of these businesses that are clamoring for narrower streets, no parking and physical impediments.

Business owners hate it when it’s easy for people to come to their stores

Totally. I just dug up this really interesting research from NYC that is strong support for traffic calming being very good for local business.

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/dot-economic-benefits-of-sustainable-streets.pdf

This is a straw man. The issue is not how calm the traffic is, the issue is whether the traffic can stop and spend. TaKe away parking and take away curbside access (hello bike lane) and those businesses will fail.

Lol, bikers spend quite a bit and don't waste valuable parking spaces.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/more-businesses-in-san-diego-begin-to-embrace-bike-lanes/2951045/

The only problem is that the number of bikers is tiny.

And they make it harder to walk around because they don't follow traffic rules

"There's so few of them that they make it hard to walk around, and I'm going to ignore the vehicles that actually kill pedestrians" is a very interesting take. Like, some real five dimensional logical. Or just pure BS. Yeah, pure BS. Thanks.

I know these are difficult concepts and helmet laws are a relatively new phenomenon but try and follow:

The argument you proferred was that bicylists and bike lanes would be economically beneficial to retail businesses. That they would make up any business lost due to lost parking etc. The problem with that argument is two fold and for two different reasons. Firstly there arent anywhere near enough bicyclists, especially yearround, to make up that volume and secondly, any benfits from increased pedestrianization due to less cars is completely offset by bike lanes due to bicyclists not stopping at lights and stop signs. In short, there are not enough bicyclists to make up lost demand AND pedestrian access is not improved.

1. You don't know how much business will be lost from removal of some parking. It's not 100% and it may not even be a large percent.
2. You don't know how much increased business comes from bicyclists and pedestrians.
You're just making stuff up to fit your narrative. Please go back to grade school for how to make an argument.

Really? Physician, heal thyself.

Narrower lanes, no parking, and physical impediments will not increase either density or business. Increased density requires wider not narrower lanes. Increased walkability requires no physical impediments and no bike thoroughfares. Parking is a function of density. If there is enough density, 300% more than now, then parking is less necessary but the catch-22 is that in order to get past the first stages of increased density there needs to be more parking.

That is the problem of using "pedestrian safety" and economic development as a stalking horse for bike lanes. Bike lanes do neither while the anti-car measures actively harm economic development by reducing access and demand. DC has nowhere near the level of population density for neighborhoods to be entirely self-sustaining.

Ok, more conjecture. Cool, thanks.

Oh sorry. Was the basic logic to complicated or are you just in the denial phase? It's basic economics. It's also all the pro-density arguments you make. The only problem you have is that the specific measures you want to implement - narrow roads, no parking and physical impediments - decrease rather than increase population density.

Oh, cool. City development is basic economics. Who knew it was so simple?

You're showing your ignorance here.

Isn't it. I mean all we have to do is increase congestion, remove parking and make walking more complicated. Once we reduce access and demand then we'll have an economic nirvana.

1. Remove sidewalks, bike lanes, bus stuff, add travel lanes and parking
2. ?
3. Profit!

Interesting that you say that. Nobody has proposed any of that. What is being demanded is eliminating roads, narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments with the specific and stated goal of increasing congestion in order to reduce demand which will somehow miraculously result in more business and a population increase. This is a phenomenally stupid idea.

What is being "demanded" is traffic calming and creating space for other forms of transit - bus, pedestrian, bike. Traffic calming, by definition, slows down traffic. No, you do not have the right to drive through DC at 50MPH and block other forms of transit with your free parking.

What you're claiming (in the absence of all evidence) is that traffic calming ruins business.

Come on say what you mean instead of hiding behind euphemisms. The traffic "calming" proposals are narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments.

The big irony is that none of that calms anything. Instead it increases frustration and congestion. That is your stated goal. To make driving so bad and inconvenient that they look for alternatives. The problem with that is that those alternatives will be other areas.



People do not drive through DC at 50mph. There is too much traffic to do that.

This. 100%

Nobody is going to switch to bikes because traffic is bad. That’s laughable. One thing that will definitely happen is people will circulate less. They won’t move about the city as much and stay closer to home. Hard to see how that’s in anyone interest. But our city is ruled by people who are not just ignorant of economics but actively hostile to it.

It’s a recipe for turning DC into enclaves, further entrenching socio-economic and racial divides in an already segregated city.

Suburbs only accessible by car we're literally set up to segregate us into racial and socio-economic enclaves. Suggest you learn some history first.

This is not about suburbs. The discussion is about DC. So you don’t disagree that the result of this policy which makes it harder for people to freely circulate throughout the city will further exacerbate inequality?

Hear! Hear! Also, take a look at how many cyclists you encounter/see any given day during your commute. On almost every occasion, I see fewer than 20 and typically fewer than 10. All this to benefit a superminority of mostly whiny virtue-signaling white folks in lycra. The vast majority of people are not going to drop their kids off to school and then continue on to work via bicycle. And the metro is in vast need of an overhaul and also is not exactly the transport of choice during a pandemic.

Bikes are about 8% of trips in the core of DC and growing very quickly. Walking is "just" about 11%. Driving alone as the share of trips in core DC is plummeting. So your perception is wrong.

https://ggwash.org/view/80233/the-bike-boom-is-real-says-new-mode-share-data-regional-travel-survey

...because of the pandemic.

So 81% of trips are cars then? "Driving alone". Give me a break. They're not counting driving, parking and then walking as driving. That is complete disengenuous spin.

That data compares 2007 to 2017, so no, no pandemic impact. If you RTFA, you'll see that in 2017, the types of transit for core DC travel were: 36% drive alone, 4% carpool, 30% metro, 9% bus, 11% walk, 7.6% bike, and 3.4% taxi/rideshare.

I'm surprised bus is so low - I think that's where we could make a lot of improvement.

Driving alone is still a meaningless disengenuous qualifier.

Buses are always much better in theory than practice.

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Anonymous wrote:Just so you know. The owner of Bread Furst himself has said that the location was specifically picked because of parking, visibility and neighborhood household income. He would be the absolute last person to want to make Connecticut a one lane road without parking.

I can't speak for the owner of Bread Furst, but many business owners are in favor of traffic calming. They know that a lot of their business comes from people who arrive on foot, and they don't enjoy risking their own lives getting to work.

Oh please do share the names of these businesses that are clamoring for narrower streets, no parking and physical impediments.

Business owners hate it when it’s easy for people to come to their stores

Totally. I just dug up this really interesting research from NYC that is strong support for traffic calming being very good for local business.

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/dot-economic-benefits-of-sustainable-streets.pdf

This is a straw man. The issue is not how calm the traffic is, the issue is whether the traffic can stop and spend. TaKe away parking and take away curbside access (hello bike lane) and those businesses will fail.

Lol, bikers spend quite a bit and don't waste valuable parking spaces.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/more-businesses-in-san-diego-begin-to-embrace-bike-lanes/2951045/

The only problem is that the number of bikers is tiny.

And they make it harder to walk around because they don't follow traffic rules

"There's so few of them that they make it hard to walk around, and I'm going to ignore the vehicles that actually kill pedestrians" is a very interesting take. Like, some real five dimensional logical. Or just pure BS. Yeah, pure BS. Thanks.

I know these are difficult concepts and helmet laws are a relatively new phenomenon but try and follow:

The argument you proferred was that bicylists and bike lanes would be economically beneficial to retail businesses. That they would make up any business lost due to lost parking etc. The problem with that argument is two fold and for two different reasons. Firstly there arent anywhere near enough bicyclists, especially yearround, to make up that volume and secondly, any benfits from increased pedestrianization due to less cars is completely offset by bike lanes due to bicyclists not stopping at lights and stop signs. In short, there are not enough bicyclists to make up lost demand AND pedestrian access is not improved.

1. You don't know how much business will be lost from removal of some parking. It's not 100% and it may not even be a large percent.
2. You don't know how much increased business comes from bicyclists and pedestrians.
You're just making stuff up to fit your narrative. Please go back to grade school for how to make an argument.

Really? Physician, heal thyself.

Narrower lanes, no parking, and physical impediments will not increase either density or business. Increased density requires wider not narrower lanes. Increased walkability requires no physical impediments and no bike thoroughfares. Parking is a function of density. If there is enough density, 300% more than now, then parking is less necessary but the catch-22 is that in order to get past the first stages of increased density there needs to be more parking.

That is the problem of using "pedestrian safety" and economic development as a stalking horse for bike lanes. Bike lanes do neither while the anti-car measures actively harm economic development by reducing access and demand. DC has nowhere near the level of population density for neighborhoods to be entirely self-sustaining.

Ok, more conjecture. Cool, thanks.

Oh sorry. Was the basic logic to complicated or are you just in the denial phase? It's basic economics. It's also all the pro-density arguments you make. The only problem you have is that the specific measures you want to implement - narrow roads, no parking and physical impediments - decrease rather than increase population density.

Oh, cool. City development is basic economics. Who knew it was so simple?

You're showing your ignorance here.

Isn't it. I mean all we have to do is increase congestion, remove parking and make walking more complicated. Once we reduce access and demand then we'll have an economic nirvana.

1. Remove sidewalks, bike lanes, bus stuff, add travel lanes and parking
2. ?
3. Profit!

Interesting that you say that. Nobody has proposed any of that. What is being demanded is eliminating roads, narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments with the specific and stated goal of increasing congestion in order to reduce demand which will somehow miraculously result in more business and a population increase. This is a phenomenally stupid idea.

What is being "demanded" is traffic calming and creating space for other forms of transit - bus, pedestrian, bike. Traffic calming, by definition, slows down traffic. No, you do not have the right to drive through DC at 50MPH and block other forms of transit with your free parking.

What you're claiming (in the absence of all evidence) is that traffic calming ruins business.

Come on say what you mean instead of hiding behind euphemisms. The traffic "calming" proposals are narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments.

The big irony is that none of that calms anything. Instead it increases frustration and congestion. That is your stated goal. To make driving so bad and inconvenient that they look for alternatives. The problem with that is that those alternatives will be other areas.



People do not drive through DC at 50mph. There is too much traffic to do that.

This. 100%

Nobody is going to switch to bikes because traffic is bad. That’s laughable. One thing that will definitely happen is people will circulate less. They won’t move about the city as much and stay closer to home. Hard to see how that’s in anyone interest. But our city is ruled by people who are not just ignorant of economics but actively hostile to it.

It’s a recipe for turning DC into enclaves, further entrenching socio-economic and racial divides in an already segregated city.

Suburbs only accessible by car we're literally set up to segregate us into racial and socio-economic enclaves. Suggest you learn some history first.

This is not about suburbs. The discussion is about DC. So you don’t disagree that the result of this policy which makes it harder for people to freely circulate throughout the city will further exacerbate inequality?

Hear! Hear! Also, take a look at how many cyclists you encounter/see any given day during your commute. On almost every occasion, I see fewer than 20 and typically fewer than 10. All this to benefit a superminority of mostly whiny virtue-signaling white folks in lycra. The vast majority of people are not going to drop their kids off to school and then continue on to work via bicycle. And the metro is in vast need of an overhaul and also is not exactly the transport of choice during a pandemic.

Bikes are about 8% of trips in the core of DC and growing very quickly. Walking is "just" about 11%. Driving alone as the share of trips in core DC is plummeting. So your perception is wrong.

https://ggwash.org/view/80233/the-bike-boom-is-real-says-new-mode-share-data-regional-travel-survey

That is from 2017 and it's based on survey results, not actual metrics.

Let's look at better data from 2022.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22036978-metro-dc-pulse-of-the-market-may-2022?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axioslocal_dc&stream=top


Car traffic is already at 120 percent of 2019 levels and we're not even all fully back to work in the office. Additionally, metro ridership is less than 35 percent. This is a ticking time bomb that will explode when downtown workplaces fully reopen.


Full presentation is in the link above. The below is pasted from the related Axios DC article.

2. 😱 Somehow, traffic got worse
Traffic with the Capitol in the background.
Photo: Eric Lee/Bloomberg via Getty Images


Office occupancy is still low and yet traffic is exceeding pre-pandemic levels, according to a new JLL report.

What’s happening: The pandemic has taken us from a couple of rush hour spikes in traffic in the morning and evening to a steady stream of traffic throughout the day.

By the numbers: In February, JLL found that the number of vehicle trips per month in D.C. was up 120% compared to 2019.

Foot traffic is also climbing and reached 71% of 2019 levels in March.
Metro ridership has only reached 36.4% of 2019 levels.
Why it matters: Even with lots of Washingtonians still working from home, the new pattern makes avoiding traffic a lot harder.

Between the lines: The last six months have been plagued with Metro safety issues that have increased wait times and likely pushed commuters to drive, adding to our traffic woes. And before that, COVID lockdowns and fears added to the steep drop in Metro ridership.

What to watch: Before the pandemic, 40% of Metro riders were federal employees, according to JLL. As the agencies return to the office, ridership is expected to increase.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just so you know. The owner of Bread Furst himself has said that the location was specifically picked because of parking, visibility and neighborhood household income. He would be the absolute last person to want to make Connecticut a one lane road without parking.

I can't speak for the owner of Bread Furst, but many business owners are in favor of traffic calming. They know that a lot of their business comes from people who arrive on foot, and they don't enjoy risking their own lives getting to work.

Oh please do share the names of these businesses that are clamoring for narrower streets, no parking and physical impediments.

Business owners hate it when it’s easy for people to come to their stores

Totally. I just dug up this really interesting research from NYC that is strong support for traffic calming being very good for local business.




Having enforcement of traffic laws that include points/revoking driver's licenses would be more effective than jamming up the whole city. Ridiculous anti-business policy.


https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/dot-economic-benefits-of-sustainable-streets.pdf

This is a straw man. The issue is not how calm the traffic is, the issue is whether the traffic can stop and spend. TaKe away parking and take away curbside access (hello bike lane) and those businesses will fail.

Lol, bikers spend quite a bit and don't waste valuable parking spaces.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/more-businesses-in-san-diego-begin-to-embrace-bike-lanes/2951045/

The only problem is that the number of bikers is tiny.

And they make it harder to walk around because they don't follow traffic rules

"There's so few of them that they make it hard to walk around, and I'm going to ignore the vehicles that actually kill pedestrians" is a very interesting take. Like, some real five dimensional logical. Or just pure BS. Yeah, pure BS. Thanks.

I know these are difficult concepts and helmet laws are a relatively new phenomenon but try and follow:

The argument you proferred was that bicylists and bike lanes would be economically beneficial to retail businesses. That they would make up any business lost due to lost parking etc. The problem with that argument is two fold and for two different reasons. Firstly there arent anywhere near enough bicyclists, especially yearround, to make up that volume and secondly, any benfits from increased pedestrianization due to less cars is completely offset by bike lanes due to bicyclists not stopping at lights and stop signs. In short, there are not enough bicyclists to make up lost demand AND pedestrian access is not improved.

1. You don't know how much business will be lost from removal of some parking. It's not 100% and it may not even be a large percent.
2. You don't know how much increased business comes from bicyclists and pedestrians.
You're just making stuff up to fit your narrative. Please go back to grade school for how to make an argument.

Really? Physician, heal thyself.

Narrower lanes, no parking, and physical impediments will not increase either density or business. Increased density requires wider not narrower lanes. Increased walkability requires no physical impediments and no bike thoroughfares. Parking is a function of density. If there is enough density, 300% more than now, then parking is less necessary but the catch-22 is that in order to get past the first stages of increased density there needs to be more parking.

That is the problem of using "pedestrian safety" and economic development as a stalking horse for bike lanes. Bike lanes do neither while the anti-car measures actively harm economic development by reducing access and demand. DC has nowhere near the level of population density for neighborhoods to be entirely self-sustaining.

Ok, more conjecture. Cool, thanks.

Oh sorry. Was the basic logic to complicated or are you just in the denial phase? It's basic economics. It's also all the pro-density arguments you make. The only problem you have is that the specific measures you want to implement - narrow roads, no parking and physical impediments - decrease rather than increase population density.

Oh, cool. City development is basic economics. Who knew it was so simple?

You're showing your ignorance here.

Isn't it. I mean all we have to do is increase congestion, remove parking and make walking more complicated. Once we reduce access and demand then we'll have an economic nirvana.

1. Remove sidewalks, bike lanes, bus stuff, add travel lanes and parking
2. ?
3. Profit!

Interesting that you say that. Nobody has proposed any of that. What is being demanded is eliminating roads, narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments with the specific and stated goal of increasing congestion in order to reduce demand which will somehow miraculously result in more business and a population increase. This is a phenomenally stupid idea.

What is being "demanded" is traffic calming and creating space for other forms of transit - bus, pedestrian, bike. Traffic calming, by definition, slows down traffic. No, you do not have the right to drive through DC at 50MPH and block other forms of transit with your free parking.

What you're claiming (in the absence of all evidence) is that traffic calming ruins business.

Come on say what you mean instead of hiding behind euphemisms. The traffic "calming" proposals are narrowing streets, removing parking, and adding physical impediments.

The big irony is that none of that calms anything. Instead it increases frustration and congestion. That is your stated goal. To make driving so bad and inconvenient that they look for alternatives. The problem with that is that those alternatives will be other areas.



People do not drive through DC at 50mph. There is too much traffic to do that.

This. 100%

Nobody is going to switch to bikes because traffic is bad. That’s laughable. One thing that will definitely happen is people will circulate less. They won’t move about the city as much and stay closer to home. Hard to see how that’s in anyone interest. But our city is ruled by people who are not just ignorant of economics but actively hostile to it.

This is happening in other cities as well. Museums in San Francisco struggle to survive with the reduced flow of people that has come with closing roads to car traffic. It’s really terrible.

A lot of businesses are leaving DC for the suburbs. There aren’t enough people to sustain their businesses when you take away all the parking, make it too difficult to drive, etc. My guess is that at some point, the city will have to tear out a lot of the bike infrastructure because it hurts businesses (and tax revenue) so much. It’s just not economically viable.

You’re funny!!!!

NP, here. A few years ago, DC changed the lane patterns of Wisconsin Ave near Glover Park. They basically made Wisconsin two lanes rather than four lanes through Glover Park. It created a horrific traffic bottleneck and they had to undo -- at taxpayer expense - everything and go back to the original configuration. This is what's going to happen downtown. It just hasn't been tested yet because people aren't fully. back to working in offices. Once traffic returns all hell will break lose and this experiment will need to be undone.

Smaller, walkable/bikeable streets are better for business than multi lane thoroughfares. Those wanting multi lane throughfares aren’t stopping to shop, they are speeding through as quickly as possible. Foot traffic and bike traffic = customers for businesses on smaller streets.

I don’t think this is true. The Wharf, Pike and Rose and the Mosaic district are doing very well by providing a walkable destination that’s conveniently accessible with abundant parking. Take away the accessibility and parking and the best case result is Georgetown, which is aided by a waterfront, university and historic district.

Just explain where this foot traffic with disposable income is supposed to come from.

again, traffic calming does not mean shutting down a city. It means … making the streets safe and accessible to everyone. The Wharf does not have free street parking; and Georgetown is doing fine with limited parking. The decline of GT storefronts has to do with DC shifting to *more* pedestrian friendly social areas that are more accessible by transit (Wharf, U St)