PPA after age 10, grade 6 and up? good alternatives?

[Anonymous]

My son, current 5th grader has been with PPA since we moved to Bethesda 3 year ago. I like that is has been somewhere between rec and travel, with good competition and good coaches but not so much travel. However, over the years the level of play and coaching seems to have deteriorated. My sense is that PPA tends skew towards younger players so I'm worried that the level of play and coaching for grades 6 and up may continue to decline for those ages.

Does anyone have experience staying with PPA for grades 6 and up?

If you would recommend that we look elsewhere (for something between rec and travel), would really appreciate any recommendations in the bethesda/NW DC area. We're looking for good coaching and good level of play but not too much travel. Thank you!!

[Anonymous]

Have you looked at MSI Classic? Should be around the same level, though it varies by team. There is little travel involved--just local unless your team tries tournaments elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

I was going to recommend the same thing - MSI Classic!

[Anonymous]

PPA was founded pretty recently so their biggest "class" if you will is around your child's age. I think it's hard to tell how things will go next year based on the current 6th graders because the 5th grade right now is so much larger. I do know they are making a new push into MS, probably because they know their core group is getting to be that age, so maybe the program will be different next year at the MS level. Probably worth your time to talk to them about their plans.

DS has an excellent 5th grade coach. Have you let the soccer director know you are not happy? I know they have been hiring a lot of new coaches and if they are not up to standards I would think they would want to know.

For MSI Classic, I think Brit-Am and Toca have teams. I believe they practice in Potomac. I don't think you'll find what you want in a parent-coached Classic team. The level of play is inconsistent, though. So you will find a handful of teams that may be better than the average PPA team but you will find plenty that are worse.

[Anonymous]

You could also try the PPA Premier program which we've found to be great. Of course, there is more travel associated with that.

[Anonymous]

We had a good experience with PPA, both its Premier and pre-Premier teams, at the younger years. However, our experience began to change with PPA's older teams (U13 and older), which are falling apart. This is not a knock on PPA, so much as it is a knock on small clubs like PPA, Achilles, etc.

PPA and these other small clubs have a tough time maintaining their rosters at these older ages for a variety of reasons. First, a number of the better players get picked off by bigger clubs as the years go by. Second, some kids decide to stop playing soccer, either because they start focusing primarily on another sport or because they simply move on to other things as they hit the teen years. And because PPA and other small clubs don't have 3+ teams at each age bracket, they cannot backfill the rosters as they suffer these player losses. Achilles, for example, has tried to address this issue by playing some boys up an age group just so the older team will have enough boys to field a team on game days. Of course, with games sometimes happening on the same day and at the same time on the weekend, the younger team that lost some of the "play-ups" now find themselves undermanned, and they either suffer as a result, or they pull players up from the year below, which then causes the same problem down the line. And this is just to get a full roster for a game. Practices are constantly undermanned, and some of the older age groups frequently practice without anything close to a full roster, which of course does not help player development at the individual or team level. PPA suffers from the same problems at the older ages and has tried some of the same stopgap measures as Achilles. The issues were so bad for PPA's oldest age group that they had to abandon the stopgap approach and just consolidate the Premier and non-Premier teams at that age group, which has resulted in a roster that is far too big for a single team, but not big enough for two teams.

Like I said, this is not meant to slam PPA, Achilles or other small clubs. The founders at those clubs are great, and the level of coaching is quite high, as several of their coaches were accomplished coaches for some of the big area clubs. More importantly, those coaches are good people and well-liked by the players. Those clubs have a lot to offer their players, especially those that are looking for something more competitive than MSI, but not as competitive and time-consuming as big clubs like Potomac, Bethesda, etc. I think PPA and these other small clubs are particularly good at the younger ages, but parents just need to be aware that they may need to start looking at other options if their son is still interested in playing soccer by the teen years.

[Anonymous]

OP here, thank you so much for the replies. This is very helpful. I will look into the other options mentioned (except PPA premier, as I'm told you need to be invited if you're already a PPA player, and we're still waiting for that call, haha). I will also try reaching out to PPA to see if they have any info on how next year is looking. Will report back if I get any helpful info from them.

To the 10:25 poster, it sounds like PPA really started to fall apart at U13 and older? Can I assume that U12 was okayish? Maybe I have another year to figure this out?

[Anonymous]

NP. I don't disagree with 10:25, but my son is currently a U12 PPA Premier player and there are 4 teams at that age group. In contrast, Stoddert (a traditionally "bigger" club) only has three teams in U12 this year.

It should be interesting to see what happens next year and how many U12 players stick with PPA or switch to bigger clubs like Bethesda, etc. The older age groups have fewer players for sure, but I'm not sure that's going to be an issue for U12 and below.

[Anonymous]

OP, You are right that things really begin to change at U13 but it's not something specific to PPA but to soccer in general.

A lot of clubs or leagues from rec to travel get smaller then probably because of the reasons listed above with kids getting busy with other types of activities in MS or specializing more in one sport. Since you're talking about something between rec and travel... MSI Classic league shrinks from three divisions to two so a third of the teams disappear from U12 to U13.

[Anonymous]

Even Bethesda loses several teams between U12 and U13.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thank you so much for the replies. This is very helpful. I will look into the other options mentioned (except PPA premier, as I'm told you need to be invited if you're already a PPA player, and we're still waiting for that call, haha). I will also try reaching out to PPA to see if they have any info on how next year is looking. Will report back if I get any helpful info from them.

To the 10:25 poster, it sounds like PPA really started to fall apart at U13 and older? Can I assume that U12 was okayish? Maybe I have another year to figure this out?

I'm the 10:25 poster, and yes is the answer to your question. I was also not aware that the U12 age group had 4 teams, so maybe it will not be as much of an issue for that age group. Our son's age group only had 2 teams at U12.

The other posters made good points about things beginning to change at U13+, and even the big clubs begin to lose teams. The difference between a club like Bethesda vs. a club like PPA, is that the Bethesda's of the world are not going to lose a significant number of players from its top team as an age group hits the teen years and continues to progress through the club. That is in part due to the fact that a club like Bethesda is one of the top clubs in the area, whose top team plays in DA (or ECNL on the girls' side). As a result, a club like Bethesda is not going to lose a significant number of its best players to rival top clubs. Plus, the players on those top teams are very committed to soccer, and less likely to drop soccer in favor of specializing in a different sport. And even if a club like Bethesda were to lose a couple of players from its top team, it is usually able to fill those positions from promoting a couple of kids from the B team or recruiting a couple of players from other clubs.

That is not the case with a club like PPA, whose top players on the Premier team will be successfully poached by top area clubs, which are able to offer a better developmental and recruiting platform than PPA could ever offer its top players. PPA's Premier teams also have players at the younger ages that play other sports, like lacrosse, and several of those kids will drop soccer and go full-time in their other sport. In our experience, once the Premier team suffered such player losses at U13+, it could never make up for the losses, whether through promoting players from the second team, recruiting new players, or playing up some younger players. This, in turn, caused several of the remaining boys from the Premier team to leave PPA for other clubs.

To be clear, there is nothing wrong with any of this, and it is just one of the consequences of being at a smaller club vs. one of the top area clubs. One of the things that makes PPA so good is that it is a club where young players are encouraged to play multiple sports, while still receiving good, quality soccer coaching and training. If they wind up wanting to specialize in soccer, then they can continue to do so at PPA, or they can move to a club that provides a better platform. If, on the other hand, they wind up wanting to specialize in another sport or drop sports entirely, then they will have had a fun, relatively stress-free experience playing with great PPA coaches and teammates, without any significant travel.

[Anonymous]

OP again, thank you all again for the responses. It seems DS has already decided that he is committed to soccer as his primary sport (if that's even possible at age 10) so I will eventually have to find an alternative to PPA as he gets older, assuming things stay as they are now. I do worry that even if he were invited/accepted to PPA Premier or to another more competitive club, he wouldn't get much play time. One of the silver linings to the level of competition declining at PPA over the years, is that he's getting more and more playing time

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thank you so much for the replies. This is very helpful. I will look into the other options mentioned (except PPA premier, as I'm told you need to be invited if you're already a PPA player, and we're still waiting for that call, haha). I will also try reaching out to PPA to see if they have any info on how next year is looking. Will report back if I get any helpful info from them.

To the 10:25 poster, it sounds like PPA really started to fall apart at U13 and older? Can I assume that U12 was okayish? Maybe I have another year to figure this out?

I'm the 10:25 poster, and yes is the answer to your question. I was also not aware that the U12 age group had 4 teams, so maybe it will not be as much of an issue for that age group. Our son's age group only had 2 teams at U12.

The other posters made good points about things beginning to change at U13+, and even the big clubs begin to lose teams. The difference between a club like Bethesda vs. a club like PPA, is that the Bethesda's of the world are not going to lose a significant number of players from its top team as an age group hits the teen years and continues to progress through the club. That is in part due to the fact that a club like Bethesda is one of the top clubs in the area, whose top team plays in DA (or ECNL on the girls' side). As a result, a club like Bethesda is not going to lose a significant number of its best players to rival top clubs. Plus, the players on those top teams are very committed to soccer, and less likely to drop soccer in favor of specializing in a different sport. And even if a club like Bethesda were to lose a couple of players from its top team, it is usually able to fill those positions from promoting a couple of kids from the B team or recruiting a couple of players from other clubs.

That is not the case with a club like PPA, whose top players on the Premier team will be successfully poached by top area clubs, which are able to offer a better developmental and recruiting platform than PPA could ever offer its top players. PPA's Premier teams also have players at the younger ages that play other sports, like lacrosse, and several of those kids will drop soccer and go full-time in their other sport. In our experience, once the Premier team suffered such player losses at U13+, it could never make up for the losses, whether through promoting players from the second team, recruiting new players, or playing up some younger players. This, in turn, caused several of the remaining boys from the Premier team to leave PPA for other clubs.

To be clear, there is nothing wrong with any of this, and it is just one of the consequences of being at a smaller club vs. one of the top area clubs. One of the things that makes PPA so good is that it is a club where young players are encouraged to play multiple sports, while still receiving good, quality soccer coaching and training. If they wind up wanting to specialize in soccer, then they can continue to do so at PPA, or they can move to a club that provides a better platform. If, on the other hand, they wind up wanting to specialize in another sport or drop sports entirely, then they will have had a fun, relatively stress-free experience playing with great PPA coaches and teammates, without any significant travel.

I'm the PP from above whose son plays U12 PPA Premier. You're not wrong about any of this. I have no idea if the PPA founders want to change this or not, or if they are assuming that their top players may leave after U12. My son is on the third of four teams and not super serious about soccer but it should be interesting to see how it all plays out, especially with the transition to U13 next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The other posters made good points about things beginning to change at U13+, and even the big clubs begin to lose teams. The difference between a club like Bethesda vs. a club like PPA, is that the Bethesda's of the world are not going to lose a significant number of players from its top team as an age group hits the teen years and continues to progress through the club. That is in part due to the fact that a club like Bethesda is one of the top clubs in the area, whose top team plays in DA (or ECNL on the girls' side). As a result, a club like Bethesda is not going to lose a significant number of its best players to rival top clubs. Plus, the players on those top teams are very committed to soccer, and less likely to drop soccer in favor of specializing in a different sport. And even if a club like Bethesda were to lose a couple of players from its top team, it is usually able to fill those positions from promoting a couple of kids from the B team or recruiting a couple of players from other clubs.

That is not the case with a club like PPA, whose top players on the Premier team will be successfully poached by top area clubs, which are able to offer a better developmental and recruiting platform than PPA could ever offer its top players. PPA's Premier teams also have players at the younger ages that play other sports, like lacrosse, and several of those kids will drop soccer and go full-time in their other sport. In our experience, once the Premier team suffered such player losses at U13+, it could never make up for the losses, whether through promoting players from the second team, recruiting new players, or playing up some younger players. This, in turn, caused several of the remaining boys from the Premier team to leave PPA for other clubs.

To be clear, there is nothing wrong with any of this, and it is just one of the consequences of being at a smaller club vs. one of the top area clubs. One of the things that makes PPA so good is that it is a club where young players are encouraged to play multiple sports, while still receiving good, quality soccer coaching and training. If they wind up wanting to specialize in soccer, then they can continue to do so at PPA, or they can move to a club that provides a better platform. If, on the other hand, they wind up wanting to specialize in another sport or drop sports entirely, then they will have had a fun, relatively stress-free experience playing with great PPA coaches and teammates, without any significant travel.

I think it is really hard to make predictions about where PPA is headed based on your experience which was two ago maybe when they first launched their Premier program? In fall 2018, PPA joined the DC United Development Academy pipeline program along with big names like Loudoun Soccer and Arlington Soccer Association. This is to offer opportunities for specifically the age group you are talking about which is U12-U14.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again, thank you all again for the responses. It seems DS has already decided that he is committed to soccer as his primary sport (if that's even possible at age 10) so I will eventually have to find an alternative to PPA as he gets older, assuming things stay as they are now. I do worry that even if he were invited/accepted to PPA Premier or to another more competitive club, he wouldn't get much play time. One of the silver linings to the level of competition declining at PPA over the years, is that he's getting more and more playing time

OP, if you like the coaching and the house league starts to thin out by U13 you could suggest to PPA that they play those kids in a different league but with a PPA coach under the PPA name. MSI Classic does have fewer teams at U13 but it's still very robust.