Soooo, how is high-density looking to everyone now?

[Anonymous]

Other cities around the world: the pandemic has made mass transit more complicated, so we need to focus on improving other transportation options, like walking, bicycling, and scooters.

People in Cleveland Park: the pandemic has made mass transit more complicated, so we need to make it easier for people go places by car.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Other cities around the world: the pandemic has made mass transit more complicated, so we need to focus on improving other transportation options, like walking, bicycling, and scooters.

People in Cleveland Park: the pandemic has made mass transit more complicated, so we need to make it easier for people go places by car.

Density Bros. We are coming up with solutions. Not hoping that your new residents decide not to bring their cars. What is your suggestion? Pass a law that denies vehicle registration based on your street address? Your density dream is to attract these suburban workers. Why would you think that they would come without their cars, especially now that mass transit is looking a little less attractive.

What is your solution?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other cities around the world: the pandemic has made mass transit more complicated, so we need to focus on improving other transportation options, like walking, bicycling, and scooters.

People in Cleveland Park: the pandemic has made mass transit more complicated, so we need to make it easier for people go places by car.

Density Bros. We are coming up with solutions. Not hoping that your new residents decide not to bring their cars. What is your suggestion? Pass a law that denies vehicle registration based on your street address? Your density dream is to attract these suburban workers. Why would you think that they would come without their cars, especially now that mass transit is looking a little less attractive.

What is your solution?

Yep, you're coming up with solutions: design for a future c. 1960, based on the assumption that cars are how people go places. Very forward-thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other cities around the world: the pandemic has made mass transit more complicated, so we need to focus on improving other transportation options, like walking, bicycling, and scooters.

People in Cleveland Park: the pandemic has made mass transit more complicated, so we need to make it easier for people go places by car.

Density Bros. We are coming up with solutions. Not hoping that your new residents decide not to bring their cars. What is your suggestion? Pass a law that denies vehicle registration based on your street address? Your density dream is to attract these suburban workers. Why would you think that they would come without their cars, especially now that mass transit is looking a little less attractive.

What is your solution?

Yep, you're coming up with solutions: design for a future c. 1960, based on the assumption that cars are how people go places. Very forward-thinking.

Density Bros solution: Distract and divert. Get paid by developers.

[Anonymous]

Just to recap:

1. We need to make the city way more densely populated (for nebulous-sounding reasons that don't actually make much sense).

2. Density has nothing to do with spreading coronavirus (despite what the entire medical profession is telling you).

3. We need to ban cars because there's too many people here and there isn't enough room for people to walk and jog and ride bikes and still maintain coronavirus social distancing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other cities around the world: the pandemic has made mass transit more complicated, so we need to focus on improving other transportation options, like walking, bicycling, and scooters.

People in Cleveland Park: the pandemic has made mass transit more complicated, so we need to make it easier for people go places by car.

Density Bros. We are coming up with solutions. Not hoping that your new residents decide not to bring their cars. What is your suggestion? Pass a law that denies vehicle registration based on your street address? Your density dream is to attract these suburban workers. Why would you think that they would come without their cars, especially now that mass transit is looking a little less attractive.

What is your solution?

Yep, you're coming up with solutions: design for a future c. 1960, based on the assumption that cars are how people go places. Very forward-thinking.

Density Bros solution: Distract and divert. Get paid by developers.

If the city wants to mitigate car use, provide attractive options. BTW, CP low density neighborhood is great for walking, biking, scooters.

[Anonymous]

NP here. Building on a comment from above about elevators, how difficult and expensive do we think it would be to install UV lights in Metro trains? Every time the train gets to the end of the line, they could run the lights for long enough to address contamination of commonly touched surfaces. Obviously it's not perfect, rush hour is still crowded, but it would go a long way to addressing people's concerns and it seems very feasible to me.

Clearly, more people will be driving in the short term. But there's no way that's sustainable in the long term, even at current density levels. The traffic will be unbearable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just to recap:

1. We need to make the city way more densely populated (for nebulous-sounding reasons that don't actually make much sense).

2. Density has nothing to do with spreading coronavirus (despite what the entire medical profession is telling you).

3. We need to ban cars because there's too many people here and there isn't enough room for people to walk and jog and ride bikes and still maintain coronavirus social distancing.

1. There needs to be more housing because there is not enough housing.
2. That's actually not what the "entire medical profession" is saying.
3. Cars take up a lot of space that could be better used for other purposes.

I don't get this fixation with "density bros," by the way. Everyone I know who is active in DC housing/transportation/land use issues is a woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other cities around the world: the pandemic has made mass transit more complicated, so we need to focus on improving other transportation options, like walking, bicycling, and scooters.

People in Cleveland Park: the pandemic has made mass transit more complicated, so we need to make it easier for people go places by car.

Density Bros. We are coming up with solutions. Not hoping that your new residents decide not to bring their cars. What is your suggestion? Pass a law that denies vehicle registration based on your street address? Your density dream is to attract these suburban workers. Why would you think that they would come without their cars, especially now that mass transit is looking a little less attractive.

What is your solution?

Yep, you're coming up with solutions: design for a future c. 1960, based on the assumption that cars are how people go places. Very forward-thinking.

Density Bros solution: Distract and divert. Get paid by developers.

If the city wants to mitigate car use, provide attractive options. BTW, CP low density neighborhood is great for walking, biking, scooters.

Yes, it is, and wouldn't it be great if there were more housing there, so that more people could walk/bike/scoot for transportation in their neighborhood?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other cities around the world: the pandemic has made mass transit more complicated, so we need to focus on improving other transportation options, like walking, bicycling, and scooters.

People in Cleveland Park: the pandemic has made mass transit more complicated, so we need to make it easier for people go places by car.

Density Bros. We are coming up with solutions. Not hoping that your new residents decide not to bring their cars. What is your suggestion? Pass a law that denies vehicle registration based on your street address? Your density dream is to attract these suburban workers. Why would you think that they would come without their cars, especially now that mass transit is looking a little less attractive.

What is your solution?

The buses are full, actually. Just not full of people who live in expensive single-family houses with yards in the leafier parts of DC west of the park.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So the density discussion is effectively over in DC until a few questions can be answered. (I know that the Mayor is hosting her secret hearings, but those are simply pro forma and will die on the vine. The Council is not voting density right now. They don't have the time or the money.)

Density will be on pause until several questions can be answered.

1. Elevators need to be re designed. They need air exchangers and holographic buttons. They need to be contact free.

2. Stair wells need air circulation and non occupancy sterilization where once the door closes and the stairs are empty, UV Light turns on and sterilizes surfaces.

3. Common areas need modern air exchangers. The kinds you find in envelope homes.

4. I think the days of common kitchen spaces are gone in multi family homes. Individual cooking spaces are simply cleaner. This is a bummer because DC has some great apartment buildings with beautiful common kitchen spaces.

5. I HATE to admit this, but parking is going to have to come back for several years. There is just no way WMATA is going to come up with a clean metro system anytime soon. So people are going to drive. Therefore all of these new buildings with no parking spots is simply going to mean cars parked on the streets. We need to go back to old parking spot for units built.

6. Low income housing is going to need to be city wired for internet. If you have seen any of the public school discussion, distance learning is simply not happening with families that cannot afford internet at home. So if the housing is going to be subsidized or otherwise low income, it needs to have city provided internet, not simply access to a new inbound school.

And the excuse of just build it now and we will work out the details is simply not good enough because we won't work out the details. This will pass and we will re learn these lessons when this rolls through again.

Right now the density discussion is being made solely based on economic lines (who can I sell building rights to). Any future discussion needs to include public health implications.

Wait, do you think they're putting holographic buttons in every elevator in the city? They aren't. Why do we need to completely redesign the way we use buildings and land for decades to cope with a virus that will be around for a few years at most? Some of what you're suggesting is good policy that should have been done before regardless of the pandemic, like providing Internet in low-income housing. But why should we force buildings to have underground parking -- which SIGNIFICANTLY increases the cost of the building and, therefore, the cost of the housing in it -- when there will likely be a vaccine distributed before some of the buildings you'd make this change for are even built?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other cities around the world: the pandemic has made mass transit more complicated, so we need to focus on improving other transportation options, like walking, bicycling, and scooters.

People in Cleveland Park: the pandemic has made mass transit more complicated, so we need to make it easier for people go places by car.

Density Bros. We are coming up with solutions. Not hoping that your new residents decide not to bring their cars. What is your suggestion? Pass a law that denies vehicle registration based on your street address? Your density dream is to attract these suburban workers. Why would you think that they would come without their cars, especially now that mass transit is looking a little less attractive.

What is your solution?

I am not a Density Bro (I own a house with a yard in Ward 3), but I can tell you I won't be driving to work, ever. If I don't think public transit is safe, I'll ride my bike. My office probably won't be open for another five months, anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"In recent decades, this dispersed model has been increasingly disparaged by politicians, the media and people in academia who tend to favor the New York model of density and mass transit. Yet even before COVID-19 most Angelenos rejected their advice, preferring to live and work in dispersed patterns and traveling by car. This bit of passive civic resistance may have saved lives in this pandemic.”

►Density kills. The coronavirus has been much more deadly in places like New York City or Boston than in rural settings. As demographer Joel Kotkin notes, Los Angeles has done much better than other big cities, because it’s less dense. “L.A.’s sprawling, multi-polar urban form, by its nature, results in far less 'exposure density' to the contagion than more densely packed urban areas, particularly those where large, crowded workplaces are common and workers are mass-transit-dependent...

Density doesn’t have to kill. Seoul is the sixth-densest city in the world, and they got the virus completely under control.

Apparently you have not been keeping up with the news. S Korea, for many the gold standard for COVID response, acknowledged that they opened up too early after renewed spikes in infection.

The reemergence of coronavirus cases in many parts of Asia is also prompting a return to closures in places that had claimed success in battling the disease or appeared to have eradicated it altogether, including South Korea, regarded as one of the continent’s top success stories.

South Korea last week rescinded a go-ahead for bars and clubs to reopen after a spike in cases, hours after officials announced the lifting of previous social distancing restrictions and the start of a “new everyday life with the coronavirus.”

South Korean President Moon Jae-in warned his country Sunday to “brace for the pandemic’s second wave,” calling the battle against covid-19 a “prolonged” fight.

Yes, they're trying to stay on top of a situation they have completely handled. They recorded 29 new cases yesterday in the entire country. They've had a total of about 11,000 cases and 260 deaths. Seoul's density is not preventing South Korea from managing the pandemic WAY better than we are.

[Anonymous]

Oh, I totally missed the "we can't have tall buildings until there are holographic buttons in the elevators!" thing!

My parents live in a building with elevators. Here's what they do: use their elbow.

[Anonymous]

People on this thread always seem to ignore the fact that DC is already very densely populated. We have neighborhoods that are more densely populated than neighborhoods in Manhattan. Adding more housing to DC isn't going to accomplish much -- at some point, it's all diminishing returns. You'd be better off adding housing in places that aren't already densely populated, ie the suburbs. You'd get way more bang for the buck.