Anne Boleyn: villan or victim?

[Anonymous]

What does everyone think of this controversial woman?

[Anonymous]

That hasn't been since in the 400+ years since she died??

Go watch the Tudors.

[Anonymous]

Forget the Tudors – try Wolf Hall.

Anne Boleyn was smart and successful in a time when women were property of their fathers and husbands. Her crime was not being able to give Henry a son, after she herself, a Lutheran reformer, gave him the tools to overturn the Catholic Church’sdominance in England and replace the Pope with Henry as king as the head of church.

[Anonymous]

Both. You can be a villan, to some (Mary, Queen Catherine) and a victim of others (Henry, her enemies).

She played a dangerous game and many people lost their lives playing in that league. She was just one of them.

She's one of the people who when they ask, "if you could bring back one historical figure to talk to, who would it be". It would be her!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Forget the Tudors – try Wolf Hall.

Anne Boleyn was smart and successful in a time when women were property of their fathers and husbands. Her crime was not being able to give Henry a son, after she herself, a Lutheran reformer, gave him the tools to overturn the Catholic Church’sdominance in England and replace the Pope with Henry as king as the head of church.

Oh wow thanks for the tip! Its on Prime.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V324G1S

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forget the Tudors – try Wolf Hall.

Anne Boleyn was smart and successful in a time when women were property of their fathers and husbands. Her crime was not being able to give Henry a son, after she herself, a Lutheran reformer, gave him the tools to overturn the Catholic Church’sdominance in England and replace the Pope with Henry as king as the head of church.

Oh wow thanks for the tip! Its on Prime.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V324G1S

Claire Foy is Anne and Mark Rylance is Cromwell. Both are fabulous.

Cromwell and his relationship with Henry are the focus of Wolf Hall, you will get excellent insight into Anne as well. She’s not portrayed as a sympathetic person, but given the circumstances, it’s hard not to admire her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forget the Tudors – try Wolf Hall.

Anne Boleyn was smart and successful in a time when women were property of their fathers and husbands. Her crime was not being able to give Henry a son, after she herself, a Lutheran reformer, gave him the tools to overturn the Catholic Church’sdominance in England and replace the Pope with Henry as king as the head of church.

Oh wow thanks for the tip! Its on Prime.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V324G1S

Claire Foy is Anne and Mark Rylance is Cromwell. Both are fabulous.

Cromwell and his relationship with Henry are the focus of Wolf Hall, you will get excellent insight into Anne as well. She’s not portrayed as a sympathetic person, but given the circumstances, it’s hard not to admire her.

I agree that this is an amazing series. I watched it more than once because so much is going on

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forget the Tudors – try Wolf Hall.

Anne Boleyn was smart and successful in a time when women were property of their fathers and husbands. Her crime was not being able to give Henry a son, after she herself, a Lutheran reformer, gave him the tools to overturn the Catholic Church’sdominance in England and replace the Pope with Henry as king as the head of church.

Oh wow thanks for the tip! Its on Prime.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V324G1S

Claire Foy is Anne and Mark Rylance is Cromwell. Both are fabulous.

Cromwell and his relationship with Henry are the focus of Wolf Hall, you will get excellent insight into Anne as well. She’s not portrayed as a sympathetic person, but given the circumstances, it’s hard not to admire her.

I agree that this is an amazing series. I watched it more than once because so much is going on

Me too.

[Anonymous]

she had 6 fingers.

[Anonymous]

Villian obv

She’s the ultimate home wrecker!

In fact, you could make the argument that Henry’s first divorce paved the wave for divorce in general. Without it, a lot of English people might still be Catholic.

She was a selfish opportunist.

She didn’t “deserve” her death but otoh you play stupid games, you’ll win stupid prizes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:she had 6 fingers.

No, she didn't. She had some sort of protrusion on one of her pinkies. More like a bunion than an extra finger.

Anne Boleyn is fascinating. On the one hand, you have a woman who was the pawn of her male relatives. You'd think the Duke of Norfolk (her uncle) would be disinclined to support anyone suspected of interest in reforming religion, but no. He saw Anne, and first, her sister, Mary, as a chance to undermine the powerful and corrupt Cardinal Wolsey while advancing his familial interests. Wolsey had H8 twisted around his little finger for years.

Norfolk was lucky in Anne. She was smart enough to try to take command of her future with her scheme to marry the future Duke of Northumberland, and she was attractive to men. He totally lost control of the situation, of course. She was smarter than he was. Smarter than H8, too.

So, on the other hand from the helpless pawn, she was fierce and independent. She was also manipulative, ruthless, and too quick to turn on her supporters. Norfolk was like first out the door. She helped bring Cromwell to power and turned on him after a disagreement, too. She was sort of megalomaniacal. (Sounds familiar, right?) The schism with the Catholic Church also robbed her of any support from the Vatican when H8 turned on her. The HRE would never acknowledge her. Francois I of France was noncommittal because it suited his purpose.

The ultimate issue wasn't that she couldn't bear a son. It was that she had no powerful backers. Catherine of Aragon and Princess Mary had the Holy Roman Emperor, who could have declared war on England had either woman been executed. Anne was a Johnny-come-lately Boleyn with no support. Her grandfather, while mayor of London, was a merchant. Disposing of her was easier than keeping her alive as a rallying point.

TL;DR: Very flawed hero, villainous tendencies, but ultimately a victim

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Villian obv

She’s the ultimate home wrecker!

In fact, you could make the argument that Henry’s first divorce paved the wave for divorce in general. Without it, a lot of English people might still be Catholic.

She was a selfish opportunist.

She didn’t “deserve” her death but otoh you play stupid games, you’ll win stupid prizes.

Seriously? Henry VIII wanted to be rid of Catherine of Aragon -- she was much older than he was and she didn't give him the son he thought he needed. Anne and the reformation were convenient avenues for him to get divorced. Anne recognized the opportunity to raise her family up and took advantage of it. That was her job -- to raise her family's station through marriage.

And no, a lot of people in England wouldn't still be Catholic today without Anne. The reformation was coming one way or another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Villian obv

She’s the ultimate home wrecker!

In fact, you could make the argument that Henry’s first divorce paved the wave for divorce in general. Without it, a lot of English people might still be Catholic.

She was a selfish opportunist.

She didn’t “deserve” her death but otoh you play stupid games, you’ll win stupid prizes.

Seriously? Henry VIII wanted to be rid of Catherine of Aragon -- she was much older than he was and she didn't give him the son he thought he needed. Anne and the reformation were convenient avenues for him to get divorced. Anne recognized the opportunity to raise her family up and took advantage of it. That was her job -- to raise her family's station through marriage.

And no, a lot of people in England wouldn't still be Catholic today without Anne. The reformation was coming one way or another.

Henry divorced Catherine because Anne wouldn’t sleep with him. She wanted marriage. This is historical fact.

Without a son, they would have put Mary on the throne.

[Anonymous]

Very manipulative, but she didn't deserve to have her head cut off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Villian obv

She’s the ultimate home wrecker!

In fact, you could make the argument that Henry’s first divorce paved the wave for divorce in general. Without it, a lot of English people might still be Catholic.

She was a selfish opportunist.

She didn’t “deserve” her death but otoh you play stupid games, you’ll win stupid prizes.

Seriously? Henry VIII wanted to be rid of Catherine of Aragon -- she was much older than he was and she didn't give him the son he thought he needed. Anne and the reformation were convenient avenues for him to get divorced. Anne recognized the opportunity to raise her family up and took advantage of it. That was her job -- to raise her family's station through marriage.

And no, a lot of people in England wouldn't still be Catholic today without Anne. The reformation was coming one way or another.

5 years older is really not "much" older, more that as they both grew older he ditched her for the younger woman.