Unemployment

[Anonymous]

Unemployment has reached 10.2% and is expected to reach 10.5% in early 2010.

My question is what happened to stimulus? Shouldn't we have unemployent at 8% by now or at least trending that way.

Remember back in January when the Obama camp put the fear of God into everyone that if the stimulus was not passed and passed soon we would be looking at unemployment rates near 9% and could be worse but with the stimulus unemployment would remain at 8% and below. They even produced a nice chart depicting their projections.

http://m.factcheck.org/Images/image/2009/Articles/6_16_2009_Making_Sense_Stimulus_Spending/Romer-Bernstein_Chart.jpg

[Anonymous]

that chart is definitely a "read my lips" moment. even an uneducated voter can understand that simple chart.

[jsteele]

At the time, economists such as Krugman were trying to tell Obama that the stimulus was too small (especially since a chunk was in tax cuts meant to appease Republicans, but failing to do so). Yes, Obama screwed up, but not the way you think he did. We need another stimulus and one that creates jobs by funding infrastructure projects. They should be rebuilding the Bay Bridge that's ready to fall down and other projects of that nature.

[Anonymous]

yes, would be a great idea to spend more money we don't have ....

taking aside the economic merits, politically the chart is a killer. probably a moot point because I'm sure we will be in recovery by 2012 ...

[Anonymous]

What's the matter, OP, bored again? Need to antagonize liberals so you can get in an argument and stay alert?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unemployment has reached 10.2% and is expected to reach 10.5% in early 2010.

My question is what happened to stimulus? Shouldn't we have unemployent at 8% by now or at least trending that way.

Remember back in January when the Obama camp put the fear of God into everyone that if the stimulus was not passed and passed soon we would be looking at unemployment rates near 9% and could be worse but with the stimulus unemployment would remain at 8% and below. They even produced a nice chart depicting their projections.

http://m.factcheck.org/Images/image/2009/Articles/6_16_2009_Making_Sense_Stimulus_Spending/Romer-Bernstein_Chart.jpg

Clearly, since the unemployment number is worse than both the with stimulus and without stimulus numbers, then the problem is that the economy was far worse off than the economic forecasts at the time. He probably is to blame for that, because I'm sure that there were people making grimmer forecasts. I suppose you could point to some policy that Obama produced that actually caused job loss, but I haven't heard even the most conservative people saying that. So in the end, the only logical conclusions are that the stimulus wasn't big enough or effective enough. Maybe he should have spent more, or cut taxes. But either way it is additional debt. I'm not sure that is what you wanted to hear, though.

[Anonymous]

It's absurd to try to blame Obama for not having a magic wand to clean up the mess we are in (let's not get into whose fault it is that we even got here in the first place). You just look shrill trying to point the finger at him, "look how bad everything is!" when all you are thinking about is the next election, not whether he's really responsible for anything good or bad in the current state of affairs.

If you want to complain about how he's not yet followed through on his promises about ending war(s) and equal rights for gays, I am getting PO'd about that too. But it's just ridiculous to try to blame him for the disastrous state of the economy and what an imperfect stimulus may or may not have accomplished.

[Anonymous]

It is absurd to blame any president for most economic cycles, but that doesnt stop Obama from blaming Bush every 20 seconds. Point is whether or not it hurts Obama politically.

My guess is not, because presidents who had their recessions early in their term normally have recovery under way by the first relection (Reagan, Bush II). Presidents who had their recessions late in their first term got screwed (Carter, Bush I).

Recessions come and go. We have a boom bust cycle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's the matter, OP, bored again? Need to antagonize liberals so you can get in an argument and stay alert?

You must be joking - antagonzing liberals. That is the pot calling the kettle black. The conservatives on this board take brunt of every liberals agenda and then some. Try reading through this board a bit before making silly comments. Just like the liberals come out swinging when you have nothing to add.

If the shoe were on the other foot and the republicans pushed through a stimulus under the guise of controlling and holding unemployment at 8% and then 9 months later unemployment shot up to 10% no one on this board would notice - yeah fat chance.

This forum should have a new title - "Political Discussion - Only Post if you are Liberal otherwise you are antagonizing or starting fights".

Better yet - maybe the chart the Obama camp put out there for the world to see was doctored and altered by Fox News.

Do you have anything relevant to say about unemployment and the stimulus or are your contributions solely meant to try a get a quick chuckle.

[Anonymous]

My take is that what O said was as important as what he did, since state of mind is a major motivation for economic activity. So he had to show optimism, but not sound unrealistic. Ergo, a prediction that was not as bad as reality turned out, but not so much better as to be unbelievable.

Mind you, I am not claiming that they actually knew what was coming. My guess is that they are surprised that their prediction turned out to be so close to reality. Oh, BTW, I don't really believe that those statistics are "reality", do you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the matter, OP, bored again? Need to antagonize liberals so you can get in an argument and stay alert?

You must be joking - antagonzing liberals. That is the pot calling the kettle black. The conservatives on this board take brunt of every liberals agenda and then some. Try reading through this board a bit before making silly comments. Just like the liberals come out swinging when you have nothing to add.

If the shoe were on the other foot and the republicans pushed through a stimulus under the guise of controlling and holding unemployment at 8% and then 9 months later unemployment shot up to 10% no one on this board would notice - yeah fat chance.

This forum should have a new title - "Political Discussion - Only Post if you are Liberal otherwise you are antagonizing or starting fights".

Better yet - maybe the chart the Obama camp put out there for the world to see was doctored and altered by Fox News.

Do you have anything relevant to say about unemployment and the stimulus or are your contributions solely meant to try a get a quick chuckle.

My point is that you, or someone who sounds a lot like you, never starts a discussion without putting some kind of jab in there against Obama. At times it is gratuitous and it is quite often there for the purposes of attention-getting, not actual dialogue. I don't think you want dialogue. You want a fight because you enjoy the drama. Your political position is irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but unemployment is ALWAYS a lagging economic indicator, meaning that, historically, you ALWAYS see economic recovery several months before there is a turnaround in employment numbers, which is exactly what we're seeing now. GDP is in fact leveling off and starting to turnaround but we will continue to see rising (or at least steady) unemployment for a while to come. In fact, you may not see an improvement in employment until at least next spring. This has nothing to do with politics, right or left, that's just how economies work. [Similarly, we were pretty far into recession before you started to see jobs being lost, so it cuts both ways.]

The stimulus is meant to stimulate economic activity, and it seems to have done that. Job creation will be a natural consequence of economic recovery, but unfortunately take several months to take effect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the matter, OP, bored again? Need to antagonize liberals so you can get in an argument and stay alert?

You must be joking - antagonzing liberals. That is the pot calling the kettle black. The conservatives on this board take brunt of every liberals agenda and then some. Try reading through this board a bit before making silly comments. Just like the liberals come out swinging when you have nothing to add.

If the shoe were on the other foot and the republicans pushed through a stimulus under the guise of controlling and holding unemployment at 8% and then 9 months later unemployment shot up to 10% no one on this board would notice - yeah fat chance.

This forum should have a new title - "Political Discussion - Only Post if you are Liberal otherwise you are antagonizing or starting fights".

Better yet - maybe the chart the Obama camp put out there for the world to see was doctored and altered by Fox News.

Do you have anything relevant to say about unemployment and the stimulus or are your contributions solely meant to try a get a quick chuckle.

My point is that you, or someone who sounds a lot like you, never starts a discussion without putting some kind of jab in there against Obama. At times it is gratuitous and it is quite often there for the purposes of attention-getting, not actual dialogue. I don't think you want dialogue. You want a fight because you enjoy the drama. Your political position is irrelevant.

Why is my position irrelevant. Jsteele, the moderator of this boards, takes it upon himself to take jabs at everyone and anyone who posts contrary to his agenda. Do you feel his political positions are irrelevant also.

So no one here takes jabs at the republicans who post here. Maybe you should go back and read the last 9 months of posts, they are all usually jabs at republicans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the matter, OP, bored again? Need to antagonize liberals so you can get in an argument and stay alert?

You must be joking - antagonzing liberals. That is the pot calling the kettle black. The conservatives on this board take brunt of every liberals agenda and then some. Try reading through this board a bit before making silly comments. Just like the liberals come out swinging when you have nothing to add.

If the shoe were on the other foot and the republicans pushed through a stimulus under the guise of controlling and holding unemployment at 8% and then 9 months later unemployment shot up to 10% no one on this board would notice - yeah fat chance.

This forum should have a new title - "Political Discussion - Only Post if you are Liberal otherwise you are antagonizing or starting fights".

Better yet - maybe the chart the Obama camp put out there for the world to see was doctored and altered by Fox News.

Do you have anything relevant to say about unemployment and the stimulus or are your contributions solely meant to try a get a quick chuckle.

My point is that you, or someone who sounds a lot like you, never starts a discussion without putting some kind of jab in there against Obama. At times it is gratuitous and it is quite often there for the purposes of attention-getting, not actual dialogue. I don't think you want dialogue. You want a fight because you enjoy the drama. Your political position is irrelevant.

Why is my position irrelevant. Jsteele, the moderator of this boards, takes it upon himself to take jabs at everyone and anyone who posts contrary to his agenda. Do you feel his political positions are irrelevant also.

So no one here takes jabs at the republicans who post here. Maybe you should go back and read the last 9 months of posts, they are all usually jabs at republicans.

No, Jeff just knows his politics and debates circles around most people. Then they get all mad cause they can't out debate him. Kind of like you...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the matter, OP, bored again? Need to antagonize liberals so you can get in an argument and stay alert?

You must be joking - antagonzing liberals. That is the pot calling the kettle black. The conservatives on this board take brunt of every liberals agenda and then some. Try reading through this board a bit before making silly comments. Just like the liberals come out swinging when you have nothing to add.

If the shoe were on the other foot and the republicans pushed through a stimulus under the guise of controlling and holding unemployment at 8% and then 9 months later unemployment shot up to 10% no one on this board would notice - yeah fat chance.

This forum should have a new title - "Political Discussion - Only Post if you are Liberal otherwise you are antagonizing or starting fights".

Better yet - maybe the chart the Obama camp put out there for the world to see was doctored and altered by Fox News.

Do you have anything relevant to say about unemployment and the stimulus or are your contributions solely meant to try a get a quick chuckle.

My point is that you, or someone who sounds a lot like you, never starts a discussion without putting some kind of jab in there against Obama. At times it is gratuitous and it is quite often there for the purposes of attention-getting, not actual dialogue. I don't think you want dialogue. You want a fight because you enjoy the drama. Your political position is irrelevant.

Why is my position irrelevant. Jsteele, the moderator of this boards, takes it upon himself to take jabs at everyone and anyone who posts contrary to his agenda. Do you feel his political positions are irrelevant also.

So no one here takes jabs at the republicans who post here. Maybe you should go back and read the last 9 months of posts, they are all usually jabs at republicans.

No, Jeff just knows his politics and debates circles around most people. Then they get all mad cause they can't out debate him. Kind of like you...

I know politics and can debate, unlike you who resorts to insults and jabs, but you choose not to listen because I disagree with you and jsteele. We should rename this board the jsteele knows all political discussion - don't disagree with anything he says or you will be deemed a troublemaker. All I did and lets be honest here for a minute was raise an issue that the Obama camp claimed to have a way to handle and control and quite frankly they have fallen on their collective faces.

So far you have added nothing to the debate, other than insults and jabs. Maybe you should add something other than stroking jsteele's ever growing ego.

Obama Last day in office - 1/20/2013.