Dealing with friends who feel different than you about flu shots.

[Anonymous]

I was kind of shocked to discover a pretty well-educated friend of mine go off on a holy hell government is poisoning us conspiracy behind the flu vaccine. I jokingly told him to call me when his UFO drops him back off from their probing experiments, but seriously I was a bit surprised by his attitude. Needless to say we won't be visiting his kids for awhile.

Anyone else run into some vehement disagreements over the flu shots with friends or family? How are you handling it?

[Anonymous]

Not vehement ones, but obviously there will be differences of opinion. Some of my friends feel strongly one way or another, but everyone seems to be pretty accepting of each others' choices.

I WISH I felt strongly one way or the other - then I would know what to do. Instead I feel ambivalent, on the one hand I agree that vaccines are generally safe and giving to my family could protect us from a yucky illness (not likely deadly, but there is always the chance.) On the other hand, I do feel nervous about the vax - I don't think its a conspiracy (although "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!"), I just wish that vaccines had NO side effects EVER, and it would be a no brainer.

Whatever I decide to do, I don't think that I will feel relief. Just worry for different reasons. I'm jealous of those who have no doubts, either way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was kind of shocked to discover a pretty well-educated friend of mine go off on a holy hell government is poisoning us conspiracy behind the flu vaccine. I jokingly told him to call me when his UFO drops him back off from their probing experiments, but seriously I was a bit surprised by his attitude. Needless to say we won't be visiting his kids for awhile.

Anyone else run into some vehement disagreements over the flu shots with friends or family? How are you handling it?

What's the difference between his UFO and your mothership? Seriously, you can't visit his kids for a while because he disagrees with you about getting a flu shot? How do you handle other disagreements in life? Bizarre.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's the difference between his UFO and your mothership? Seriously, you can't visit his kids for a while because he disagrees with you about getting a flu shot? How do you handle other disagreements in life? Bizarre.

Not the OP but you obviously must realize she meant because his kids weren't getting the shots and so could spread the flu to members of her family that weren't yet vaccinated. Geesh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the difference between his UFO and your mothership? Seriously, you can't visit his kids for a while because he disagrees with you about getting a flu shot? How do you handle other disagreements in life? Bizarre.

Not the OP but you obviously must realize she meant because his kids weren't getting the shots and so could spread the flu to members of her family that weren't yet vaccinated. Geesh.

I thought it was clear she was not hesitating to get herself and her kids vaccinated.

[Anonymous]

OP, I too have run into this with a couple of highly educated mom friends.

However, their background isn't in epidemiology or any of the sciences, so I mentally give them a pass when they say bizarre things. Although now that I think about it, I'm a little taken aback that they would even utter a bizarre, black helicopters, mind-control thing in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I too have run into this with a couple of highly educated mom friends.

However, their background isn't in epidemiology or any of the sciences, so I mentally give them a pass when they say bizarre things. Although now that I think about it, I'm a little taken aback that they would even utter a bizarre, black helicopters, mind-control thing in the first place.

I don't know anyone like that -- especially not anyone highly educated. If that is your take on anyone not getting the vaccine, then it speaks volumes about your state of mind, tho.

[Anonymous]

I don't know anyone like that -- especially not anyone highly educated. If that is your take on anyone not getting the vaccine, then it speaks volumes about your state of mind, tho.

I'm sorry, I don't understand? I'm the PP you're talking about. To be more specific, one of my "abstainer" mom friends has an undergrad from Harvard and a graduate degree from Stanford, in the humanities (not biochemistry, for example). I use this, and plenty of other anecdotal signs, as a proxy to assume she's quite smart and does not have reading comprehension disabilities.

So therefore, when she says things such as "Vaccines don't generally work" or "Vaccines are worse for you than the disease they're intended to prevent," I am dumbstruck. "Vaccines do not work"?? Did polio just slither off into the dark, quiet night on its own accord?

That's all I meant, didn't mean to make pronouncements about a segment of the population who, because of their disabilities, might have reading comprehension problems or processing problems that would prevent them from synthesizing the most up-to-date, best-sourced information about mass innoculation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the difference between his UFO and your mothership? Seriously, you can't visit his kids for a while because he disagrees with you about getting a flu shot? How do you handle other disagreements in life? Bizarre.

Not the OP but you obviously must realize she meant because his kids weren't getting the shots and so could spread the flu to members of her family that weren't yet vaccinated. Geesh.

I thought it was clear she was not hesitating to get herself and her kids vaccinated.

Yeah, but as the entire existence of the "flu forum" attests, being willing to get your kids vaxed and being able to get the vaccine are two different things. Plus she said "a little while," which I assume means waiting til they have the shots and then the two weeks to immunity, which if they need two shots could be almost two months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I don't know anyone like that -- especially not anyone highly educated. If that is your take on anyone not getting the vaccine, then it speaks volumes about your state of mind, tho.

I'm sorry, I don't understand? I'm the PP you're talking about. To be more specific, one of my "abstainer" mom friends has an undergrad from Harvard and a graduate degree from Stanford, in the humanities (not biochemistry, for example). I use this, and plenty of other anecdotal signs, as a proxy to assume she's quite smart and does not have reading comprehension disabilities.

So therefore, when she says things such as "Vaccines don't generally work" or "Vaccines are worse for you than the disease they're intended to prevent," I am dumbstruck. "Vaccines do not work"?? Did polio just slither off into the dark, quiet night on its own accord?

That's all I meant, didn't mean to make pronouncements about a segment of the population who, because of their disabilities, might have reading comprehension problems or processing problems that would prevent them from synthesizing the most up-to-date, best-sourced information about mass innoculation.

Exactly -- because she doesn't agree with you, she is compared to someone with disabilities and her opinion is equated with paranoia about government plots and black helicopters. Speaks volumes about you.

[Anonymous]

Fair point. I will cop to judging people for making scientific-sounding pronouncements that have no basis in science. I am guilty as charged.

[Anonymous]

I guess at Harvard and Stanford they teach their students to use their intelligence to think for themselves instead of simply using it to memorize information someone else has come up with and then spout it out as the gospel truth. That's be my guess. Of course, I didn't go to an ivy league school tho so what do I know.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I too have run into this with a couple of highly educated mom friends.

However, their background isn't in epidemiology or any of the sciences, so I mentally give them a pass when they say bizarre things. Although now that I think about it, I'm a little taken aback that they would even utter a bizarre, black helicopters, mind-control thing in the first place.

I don't know anyone like that -- especially not anyone highly educated. If that is your take on anyone not getting the vaccine, then it speaks volumes about your state of mind, tho.

Here's the funny thing. The more educated you are, the less likely you are go get vaccinated. This is at least true for the childhood vaccines.

I don't mean this to imply that vaccines are not a good idea. I am very pro-vaccination myself. But the data is the data. Uneducated people go with the advice of their doctors. Educated people question things more. And sometimes the answers they come up with on their own aren't the best.

[Anonymous]

Flu shots more than others.

Those I know who are cautious about vaccines don't doubt that vaccines work -- they're just undecided as to whether they want to inject their tiny baby with a vaccine to prevent diseases very rare in our society (polio, etc) rather than waiting until they're a bit bigger. I get that -- one has to weigh that against the herd, of course.

But flu shots.. there's some good data out there suggesting they might not work at all in under 2s. I've decided I'll take what I can get regardless, but I don't think someone has to be naive at all to decide against a flu shot.
http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab004879.html

For what it is worth, the above organization is NOT anti-vaccine -- their other papers support the safety of aluminum and the safety of the MMR vaccine.

Personally after reading the data I've decided that if there is ANY year flu vaccination is worthwhile, it is THIS year, where the flu is striking the population that also responds best to flu vaccination.

[Anonymous]

THANK YOU for the Cochrane Review link.