Living in Philadelphia or Baltimore?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no input on Baltimore, but having lived in DC and Philly, I love Philly. It’s a large city, much larger than DC, and sure it has big city problems but it also has great beautiful neighborhoods and it has something for everyone. People dogging Philly probably haven’t been here in 15 years. I actually don’t find it provincial at all, there’s a very surprising number of European transplants in my neighborhood as well as former Manhattanites and people from across the country. I live in the graduate hospital area and love it.

Another former DC resident who has lived in Philly the last 10 years. I also love it and it's been a great place to raise kids. Huge benefit to the proximity to NY, in part because many people in the arts and restaurant scenes flee here for lower costs. Wonderful green space, distinctive neighborhoods, great food, great museums--it has what many people want in a city without being prohibitively expensive.

I just moved from dc to the philly area. What neighborhoods do you recommend to visit for food, museums, coffee, playgrounds for toddlers, etc? Also what is the Glover Park of Philly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The brownstones in even the “nicer” areas of Baltimore have not appreciated in 15 years. Philadelphia would be a safer investment.

This is not true. For an area like Bolton Hill the houses have appreciated. We just bought one, the previous owner purchased in 2015 and their home appreciated 40% over that time. In fact, the house we purchased appraised for slightly more than we paid.

In some neighborhoods folks are getting quite a bit out of their rowhomes.

Signed
New to Baltimore from DC and excited to live there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I wouldn't pick either. Both are permanently in decline and kind of depressing.

Former Baltimore City and Philadelphia adjacent resident. I'd just move to Florida or Colorado or somewhere with a positive future.

You would have said this about DC 25 years ago.

No I wouldn't. I lived in Baltimore 25 years ago and never said anything like that about DC. DC is the Capitol. Baltimore is nowhere.

You thought dc was on the right track during the Marion Berry era? That’s either total bs or you’re clueless.

You don't get it. DC is the Capitol. It has inherent qualities that sustain it and the DC region as a desirable location. Baltimore benefits a bit from that but otherwise has nothing to make it desirable. It's just a rotting city past its economic relevance.

Such short memories. DC was the murder capital of the world. I loved it, but it didn't get better until there was a control board. DC didn't turn around by itself. Didn't matter that it was the Capital.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The brownstones in even the “nicer” areas of Baltimore have not appreciated in 15 years. Philadelphia would be a safer investment.

This is not true. For an area like Bolton Hill the houses have appreciated. We just bought one, the previous owner purchased in 2015 and their home appreciated 40% over that time. In fact, the house we purchased appraised for slightly more than we paid.

In some neighborhoods folks are getting quite a bit out of their rowhomes.

Signed
New to Baltimore from DC and excited to live there.

Congratulations!

I always sorta chuckle at these threads, once they inevitably descend into the DC vs. Baltimore bashing. When I was a kid growing up in the Baltimore area, DC was considered the scary place--the "murder capital." I was also told, in all seriousness, there were no road signs through the majority of the city. And, that people were regularly escorted by security officers to their cars (especially on the Hill) to avoid being the victim of crime. My friends in Baltimore were legitimately worried for my safety when I moved here in the 2000s.

I love both places for very different reasons and DC has inarguably transformed in many ways since I was a kid and crime started to fall. I mean sure, now we have armed insurrection attempts at the Capitol, but the District has definitely got safer since the 1990s.

There are certainly issues with crime in Baltimore. As with DC in areas such as Ward 8 and 7, however, the story is very complicated and relates to long-standing inequities and injustices in the city. The White L v. the Black Butterfly being what I believe is the most well-known breakdown by Dr. Brown.

But back to the topic: OP, did you ever give a budget? I looked but didn't see it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The brownstones in even the “nicer” areas of Baltimore have not appreciated in 15 years. Philadelphia would be a safer investment.

This is not true. For an area like Bolton Hill the houses have appreciated. We just bought one, the previous owner purchased in 2015 and their home appreciated 40% over that time. In fact, the house we purchased appraised for slightly more than we paid.

In some neighborhoods folks are getting quite a bit out of their rowhomes.

Signed
New to Baltimore from DC and excited to live there.

Congratulations!

I always sorta chuckle at these threads, once they inevitably descend into the DC vs. Baltimore bashing. When I was a kid growing up in the Baltimore area, DC was considered the scary place--the "murder capital." I was also told, in all seriousness, there were no road signs through the majority of the city. And, that people were regularly escorted by security officers to their cars (especially on the Hill) to avoid being the victim of crime. My friends in Baltimore were legitimately worried for my safety when I moved here in the 2000s.

I love both places for very different reasons and DC has inarguably transformed in many ways since I was a kid and crime started to fall. I mean sure, now we have armed insurrection attempts at the Capitol, but the District has definitely got safer since the 1990s.

There are certainly issues with crime in Baltimore. As with DC in areas such as Ward 8 and 7, however, the story is very complicated and relates to long-standing inequities and injustices in the city. The White L v. the Black Butterfly being what I believe is the most well-known breakdown by Dr. Brown.

But back to the topic: OP, did you ever give a budget? I looked but didn't see it.

I don't understand comments like this. Baltimore was not safe in the 1990s or 2000s. And it certainly was not perceived to be safer than DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The brownstones in even the “nicer” areas of Baltimore have not appreciated in 15 years. Philadelphia would be a safer investment.

This is not true. For an area like Bolton Hill the houses have appreciated. We just bought one, the previous owner purchased in 2015 and their home appreciated 40% over that time. In fact, the house we purchased appraised for slightly more than we paid.

In some neighborhoods folks are getting quite a bit out of their rowhomes.

Signed
New to Baltimore from DC and excited to live there.

Congratulations!

I always sorta chuckle at these threads, once they inevitably descend into the DC vs. Baltimore bashing. When I was a kid growing up in the Baltimore area, DC was considered the scary place--the "murder capital." I was also told, in all seriousness, there were no road signs through the majority of the city. And, that people were regularly escorted by security officers to their cars (especially on the Hill) to avoid being the victim of crime. My friends in Baltimore were legitimately worried for my safety when I moved here in the 2000s.

I love both places for very different reasons and DC has inarguably transformed in many ways since I was a kid and crime started to fall. I mean sure, now we have armed insurrection attempts at the Capitol, but the District has definitely got safer since the 1990s.

There are certainly issues with crime in Baltimore. As with DC in areas such as Ward 8 and 7, however, the story is very complicated and relates to long-standing inequities and injustices in the city. The White L v. the Black Butterfly being what I believe is the most well-known breakdown by Dr. Brown.

But back to the topic: OP, did you ever give a budget? I looked but didn't see it.

I don't understand comments like this. Baltimore was not safe in the 1990s or 2000s. And it certainly was not perceived to be safer than DC.

Listen, I can't go stat-for-stat with you, but I really think the last part of your statement misses the mark when it comes to perception. I just googled for a comparison back in the 1990s and found the following Sun article that I think captures the discussion at the time in the early 90s (though some of the rhetoric is a bit cringe) as well as how deadly crime fluctuated in both cities for decades. Those sorts of beliefs about DC just sort of hung around after the "murder capital" term was coined. I didn't argue, you'll note, about any of the specific crime rates in the 2000s just that folks in Baltimore were worried about me--likely because of coverage such as that in the linked article.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1990/04/16/dc-baltimore-worlds-apart-in-homicide-rates/5f993ad4-69ec-4f7e-bf45-7cc4634bb59a/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no input on Baltimore, but having lived in DC and Philly, I love Philly. It’s a large city, much larger than DC, and sure it has big city problems but it also has great beautiful neighborhoods and it has something for everyone. People dogging Philly probably haven’t been here in 15 years. I actually don’t find it provincial at all, there’s a very surprising number of European transplants in my neighborhood as well as former Manhattanites and people from across the country. I live in the graduate hospital area and love it.

Another former DC resident who has lived in Philly the last 10 years. I also love it and it's been a great place to raise kids. Huge benefit to the proximity to NY, in part because many people in the arts and restaurant scenes flee here for lower costs. Wonderful green space, distinctive neighborhoods, great food, great museums--it has what many people want in a city without being prohibitively expensive.

I just moved from dc to the philly area. What neighborhoods do you recommend to visit for food, museums, coffee, playgrounds for toddlers, etc? Also what is the Glover Park of Philly?

https://www.threebearspark.org/

This is an adorable little park in Society Hill. There are plenty of places nearby to get coffee and good food. It's close to the historical sites, including the Museum of the American Revolution and the Jewish Museum, though the art museums are far away.


Here is an awesome place, but it's more for a "big day out" ... you can't really walk there:

http://smithplayground.org/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The brownstones in even the “nicer” areas of Baltimore have not appreciated in 15 years. Philadelphia would be a safer investment.

This is not true. For an area like Bolton Hill the houses have appreciated. We just bought one, the previous owner purchased in 2015 and their home appreciated 40% over that time. In fact, the house we purchased appraised for slightly more than we paid.

In some neighborhoods folks are getting quite a bit out of their rowhomes.

Signed
New to Baltimore from DC and excited to live there.

Congratulations!

I always sorta chuckle at these threads, once they inevitably descend into the DC vs. Baltimore bashing. When I was a kid growing up in the Baltimore area, DC was considered the scary place--the "murder capital." I was also told, in all seriousness, there were no road signs through the majority of the city. And, that people were regularly escorted by security officers to their cars (especially on the Hill) to avoid being the victim of crime. My friends in Baltimore were legitimately worried for my safety when I moved here in the 2000s.

I love both places for very different reasons and DC has inarguably transformed in many ways since I was a kid and crime started to fall. I mean sure, now we have armed insurrection attempts at the Capitol, but the District has definitely got safer since the 1990s.

There are certainly issues with crime in Baltimore. As with DC in areas such as Ward 8 and 7, however, the story is very complicated and relates to long-standing inequities and injustices in the city. The White L v. the Black Butterfly being what I believe is the most well-known breakdown by Dr. Brown.

But back to the topic: OP, did you ever give a budget? I looked but didn't see it.

I don't understand comments like this. Baltimore was not safe in the 1990s or 2000s. And it certainly was not perceived to be safer than DC.

Listen, I can't go stat-for-stat with you, but I really think the last part of your statement misses the mark when it comes to perception. I just googled for a comparison back in the 1990s and found the following Sun article that I think captures the discussion at the time in the early 90s (though some of the rhetoric is a bit cringe) as well as how deadly crime fluctuated in both cities for decades. Those sorts of beliefs about DC just sort of hung around after the "murder capital" term was coined. I didn't argue, you'll note, about any of the specific crime rates in the 2000s just that folks in Baltimore were worried about me--likely because of coverage such as that in the linked article.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1990/04/16/dc-baltimore-worlds-apart-in-homicide-rates/5f993ad4-69ec-4f7e-bf45-7cc4634bb59a/

Oops, this is obviously a WaPo article.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no input on Baltimore, but having lived in DC and Philly, I love Philly. It’s a large city, much larger than DC, and sure it has big city problems but it also has great beautiful neighborhoods and it has something for everyone. People dogging Philly probably haven’t been here in 15 years. I actually don’t find it provincial at all, there’s a very surprising number of European transplants in my neighborhood as well as former Manhattanites and people from across the country. I live in the graduate hospital area and love it.

Another former DC resident who has lived in Philly the last 10 years. I also love it and it's been a great place to raise kids. Huge benefit to the proximity to NY, in part because many people in the arts and restaurant scenes flee here for lower costs. Wonderful green space, distinctive neighborhoods, great food, great museums--it has what many people want in a city without being prohibitively expensive.

I just moved from dc to the philly area. What neighborhoods do you recommend to visit for food, museums, coffee, playgrounds for toddlers, etc? Also what is the Glover Park of Philly?

Welcome! We live in Chestnut Hill/Mount Airy which are somewhat like Glover Park I think. Plenty of playgrounds in this area. Sister Cities near the Franklin Institute is a fun water play area for toddlers. Smith Playground is amazing. For coffee shops really anywhere in Center City would work, but most neighborhoods have nice independent coffee shops. The Philadelphia Art Museum just reopened with its Gehry renovation and has lots of kid programming (or did pre COVID, not sure about now).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell us how much you want to spend on a house so we can post links! I love showing people what their money can buy them in Baltimore. Their eyes usually pop. Yes, the taxes are high, but not high enough to offset how much cheaper real estate is.

Post a range, OP!

Not enough to offset the heroin addicts everywhere, you mean?

😂 Don’t worry, princess. They’re like cicadas, just gently nudge them aside with your foot and go about your business.

I can only assume that people like this poster learned everything they know about Baltimore from The Wire. Insane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no input on Baltimore, but having lived in DC and Philly, I love Philly. It’s a large city, much larger than DC, and sure it has big city problems but it also has great beautiful neighborhoods and it has something for everyone. People dogging Philly probably haven’t been here in 15 years. I actually don’t find it provincial at all, there’s a very surprising number of European transplants in my neighborhood as well as former Manhattanites and people from across the country. I live in the graduate hospital area and love it.

Another former DC resident who has lived in Philly the last 10 years. I also love it and it's been a great place to raise kids. Huge benefit to the proximity to NY, in part because many people in the arts and restaurant scenes flee here for lower costs. Wonderful green space, distinctive neighborhoods, great food, great museums--it has what many people want in a city without being prohibitively expensive.

I just moved from dc to the philly area. What neighborhoods do you recommend to visit for food, museums, coffee, playgrounds for toddlers, etc? Also what is the Glover Park of Philly?

I’m one of the Fitler Square PPs. There are some great coffee shops in the area - Rowhome Coffee opened recently and has been getting attention for its pretzel breakfast sandwiches, but I also like Ultimo, Rival, and Good Karma. Fitler Square Park is really nice and peaceful (no playground, though), and you can also easily access the river trail for a walk or bike ride. I’m not as familiar with Glover Park, but I did live in Georgetown for several years and chose Fitler Square because it seemed similar - quiet, with rowhouses and parks, and right by the river.

If you come around lunchtime or dinnertime, there are lots of great restaurants in Rittenhouse, which is adjacent/walkable from Fitler. Parc is a Philly classic, but there are lots of other great ones in the vicinity - I like The Dandelion, Townsend, and Vernick for nicer meals, Village Whiskey for burgers, and Tria for wine and snacks. In Fitler, the restaurants have more of a casual/neighborhood vibe, which I also really like. Two of my favorites are Trattoria Carina and Sidecar Bar. If you’re coming in from the suburbs, I’d do some of the Rittenhouse ones first, though. Also, many Philly restaurants are BYOB, so check before you make a reservation!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no input on Baltimore, but having lived in DC and Philly, I love Philly. It’s a large city, much larger than DC, and sure it has big city problems but it also has great beautiful neighborhoods and it has something for everyone. People dogging Philly probably haven’t been here in 15 years. I actually don’t find it provincial at all, there’s a very surprising number of European transplants in my neighborhood as well as former Manhattanites and people from across the country. I live in the graduate hospital area and love it.

Another former DC resident who has lived in Philly the last 10 years. I also love it and it's been a great place to raise kids. Huge benefit to the proximity to NY, in part because many people in the arts and restaurant scenes flee here for lower costs. Wonderful green space, distinctive neighborhoods, great food, great museums--it has what many people want in a city without being prohibitively expensive.

I just moved from dc to the philly area. What neighborhoods do you recommend to visit for food, museums, coffee, playgrounds for toddlers, etc? Also what is the Glover Park of Philly?

Welcome! We live in Chestnut Hill/Mount Airy which are somewhat like Glover Park I think. Plenty of playgrounds in this area. Sister Cities near the Franklin Institute is a fun water play area for toddlers. Smith Playground is amazing. For coffee shops really anywhere in Center City would work, but most neighborhoods have nice independent coffee shops. The Philadelphia Art Museum just reopened with its Gehry renovation and has lots of kid programming (or did pre COVID, not sure about now).

I live in Chestnut Hill as well. It’s a nice area to visit. I’m not a coffee drinker but my spouse swears by Chestnut Hill coffee, or Night Kitchen for iced coffee - both on the main road, Germantown Ave. Between the two there’s also a really nice playground at Jenks school, and several restaurants with outdoor seating. There are arts festivals on the Avenue in the spring and fall, although they’ve been cut back significantly post-pandemic. It’s a cute area and very easily walkable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I wouldn't pick either. Both are permanently in decline and kind of depressing.

Former Baltimore City and Philadelphia adjacent resident. I'd just move to Florida or Colorado or somewhere with a positive future.

You would have said this about DC 25 years ago.

No I wouldn't. I lived in Baltimore 25 years ago and never said anything like that about DC. DC is the Capitol. Baltimore is nowhere.

You thought dc was on the right track during the Marion Berry era? That’s either total bs or you’re clueless.

You don't get it. DC is the Capitol. It has inherent qualities that sustain it and the DC region as a desirable location. Baltimore benefits a bit from that but otherwise has nothing to make it desirable. It's just a rotting city past its economic relevance.

Such short memories. DC was the murder capital of the world. I loved it, but it didn't get better until there was a control board. DC didn't turn around by itself. Didn't matter that it was the Capital.

Seriously, there is either some serious ignorance or serious gaslighting going on about what dc was like in the 1980s and 1990s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I wouldn't pick either. Both are permanently in decline and kind of depressing.

Former Baltimore City and Philadelphia adjacent resident. I'd just move to Florida or Colorado or somewhere with a positive future.

You would have said this about DC 25 years ago.

No I wouldn't. I lived in Baltimore 25 years ago and never said anything like that about DC. DC is the Capitol. Baltimore is nowhere.

You thought dc was on the right track during the Marion Berry era? That’s either total bs or you’re clueless.

You don't get it. DC is the Capitol. It has inherent qualities that sustain it and the DC region as a desirable location. Baltimore benefits a bit from that but otherwise has nothing to make it desirable. It's just a rotting city past its economic relevance.

Such short memories. DC was the murder capital of the world. I loved it, but it didn't get better until there was a control board. DC didn't turn around by itself. Didn't matter that it was the Capital.

Seriously, there is either some serious ignorance or serious gaslighting going on about what dc was like in the 1980s and 1990s.

You cannot compare downtown DC, let's say 14th and K, to downtown Baltimore, say St. Paul Street and Fayette, or North Charles St. I don't care what decade you are referencing. In the 90s, I was never, ever in fear of my safety working in DC. Working in Baltimore, I did. I had downtown partnership escorts checking under my car and wiping their head going "phew!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell us how much you want to spend on a house so we can post links! I love showing people what their money can buy them in Baltimore. Their eyes usually pop. Yes, the taxes are high, but not high enough to offset how much cheaper real estate is.

Post a range, OP!

Not enough to offset the heroin addicts everywhere, you mean?

😂 Don’t worry, princess. They’re like cicadas, just gently nudge them aside with your foot and go about your business.

I can only assume that people like this poster learned everything they know about Baltimore from The Wire. Insane.

no, from spending time there visiting relatives, who live in the "nice" neighborhoods that people always rave about. Roland park etc.

Wild blinders.