Section 8 tenant not paying her rent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the OP's question...but why would anyone take on a Section 8 tenant? I'm assuming D.C. has a tight rental market and landlords get their pick of renters.

First, the rents are pretty good. A 2-bedroom in a nice part of DC can rent through section 8 for over $3100 a month with utilities included. There are a lot of older buildings where that is more than you'd get with a market-rate tenant.

Second, the rent is guaranteed. If my tenant loses his job, DCHA just pays a bigger portion of his rent. During the eviction moratorium, tenants without vouchers are coming up on 13 months where they might not have paid anything at all, and it's not like there are lots of buyers for tenant-occupied condos or multifamily buildings where the tenants aren't paying and can't be forced to leave. If I'd had a market-rate tenant who didn't pay, I might have wound up mailing the keys back to the bank and walking away...and I have good reserves and a steady job outside of real estate. Instead, I get enough to cover my expenses from DCHA. If the tenant pays, it's gravy. I just make an extra payment towards my mortgage principal.

Third, you can't discriminate based on source of income in DC. If someone comes to you with a voucher and otherwise meets your screening criteria and you turn them down, you could be faced with a lawsuit and fines. Of course there are ways of screening out all Section 8 tenants (price it above the neighborhood's payment standards) or many of them (credit checks, criminal background checks, high application and move-in fees and security deposits) but you can't just advertise "no section 8."

Fourth, some people actually like providing affordable housing. I've had my share of ups and downs with my tenant, but it's cool that his kid gets to go to a better school than before and live in a neighborhood with a lot fewer shootings. And I know their old unit had mold and probably lead paint, and their current home doesn't.

This was interesting to read....so would it be legal to ask for pay stubs or tax returns to confirm gainful employment?

Yes, you can ask for paystubs and any eviction record in last 10 years could be a reason for refusal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CDC has extended the eviction ban till 30th June. You can't evict but can start the proceedings which is going to take several months anyway.

You need to do it otherwise she would continue to take advantage of you.

In DC, it's not clear that you can "start the proceedings." For example, I don't know if you can serve a notice to quit. And I don't know if the court is accepting filings,

I think you can start the proceedings, get the paperwork going and add all that cost to your tenant. They can pay if they are serious about staying otherwise they will eventually get evicted with thousands of $s arrears and low chance of getting another voucher. I don't see a reason why he/she wouldn't pay after the paperwork has started.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the OP's question...but why would anyone take on a Section 8 tenant? I'm assuming D.C. has a tight rental market and landlords get their pick of renters.

First, the rents are pretty good. A 2-bedroom in a nice part of DC can rent through section 8 for over $3100 a month with utilities included. There are a lot of older buildings where that is more than you'd get with a market-rate tenant.

Second, the rent is guaranteed. If my tenant loses his job, DCHA just pays a bigger portion of his rent. During the eviction moratorium, tenants without vouchers are coming up on 13 months where they might not have paid anything at all, and it's not like there are lots of buyers for tenant-occupied condos or multifamily buildings where the tenants aren't paying and can't be forced to leave. If I'd had a market-rate tenant who didn't pay, I might have wound up mailing the keys back to the bank and walking away...and I have good reserves and a steady job outside of real estate. Instead, I get enough to cover my expenses from DCHA. If the tenant pays, it's gravy. I just make an extra payment towards my mortgage principal.

Third, you can't discriminate based on source of income in DC. If someone comes to you with a voucher and otherwise meets your screening criteria and you turn them down, you could be faced with a lawsuit and fines. Of course there are ways of screening out all Section 8 tenants (price it above the neighborhood's payment standards) or many of them (credit checks, criminal background checks, high application and move-in fees and security deposits) but you can't just advertise "no section 8."

Fourth, some people actually like providing affordable housing. I've had my share of ups and downs with my tenant, but it's cool that his kid gets to go to a better school than before and live in a neighborhood with a lot fewer shootings. And I know their old unit had mold and probably lead paint, and their current home doesn't.

This was interesting to read....so would it be legal to ask for pay stubs or tax returns to confirm gainful employment?

I think you could ask them for proof that what they put on the application is accurate, so you know that they can pay their portion (and if they can't, they need to recertify to get their portion reduced). But if they have no income or their only income is TANF or they work and earn just $300 a month, you can't hold that against them because DCHA will pay the rent beyond their portion.

Usually there is a portion of the rent that the person must pay. Minimum used to be $50 a month but not sure if that is still the case. There is zero excuse for someone on section 8 to not pay the rent given they can get it modified at any time based off their income.

[Anonymous]

Sht, I’m an investor and haven’t looked into this area that much. I’ve been mostly scared by horror stories.

But I’m wondering if I can buy something cheaper in one of the crappier neighborhoods that still has decent “approved rents” by dc for a 3 or 4 bedroom. Throw in some builder grade materials and rent it out for like $3,400 a month.

Obviously, It’s still sketchy kind of risk, unless I am ready and willing to potentially only accept only the voucher paid portion. But really I could probably do a decent job screening, as there’s so many people on the voucher waiting list for housing. I think it’s in the thousands.

I need to learn more about what the upkeep requirements are and hell I could make this profitable. Either way at the end of the day, why are we paying poor people to live in the city anyway? Why are we trying to foster generations of property by subsidizing their living? I still don’t get what we do that. What vested interest do we have in housing poor people? Is it so certain politicians will be reelected? Why don’t we just let the market work as it should and people will simply move to places that are more affordable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sht, I’m an investor and haven’t looked into this area that much. I’ve been mostly scared by horror stories.

But I’m wondering if I can buy something cheaper in one of the crappier neighborhoods that still has decent “approved rents” by dc for a 3 or 4 bedroom. Throw in some builder grade materials and rent it out for like $3,400 a month.

Obviously, It’s still sketchy kind of risk, unless I am ready and willing to potentially only accept only the voucher paid portion. But really I could probably do a decent job screening, as there’s so many people on the voucher waiting list for housing. I think it’s in the thousands.

I need to learn more about what the upkeep requirements are and hell I could make this profitable. Either way at the end of the day, why are we paying poor people to live in the city anyway? Why are we trying to foster generations of property by subsidizing their living? I still don’t get what we do that. What vested interest do we have in housing poor people? Is it so certain politicians will be reelected? Why don’t we just let the market work as it should and people will simply move to places that are more affordable?

Sorry “generations of poverty”. I am voice to text.

[Anonymous]

I have a buddy who rents a bunch of units to Sec 8...loved that he got regular above market rent for years with no marketing. Now, no one is paying their share because there is an eviction moratorium on Sec 8 tenants. They all know this and all just stopped paying and nothing he can do about it.

[Anonymous]

Not realtor or landlord so I’m free to say this:

1. Don’t buy in DC, where there is rent control, or where they don’t respect property (equal) rights.

2. Don’t rent to Section 8. I don’t care what they claim to promise this or that, the fact it is another party’s financing, and more restrictions and the government gets a say.

3. Don’t do business with the above. They (the government) are not honest brokers. Real estate or otherwise.

4. Why would you even be renting in a Property Class that would be Section 8 eligible for anyway? The eviction and vacancy rate is not worth the extra theoretical ROI when there is easier money that comes in, on time, every time.

5. Why do you think there is a higher risk premium and fewer players in this property class? Why do you think there are fewer below market rentals or why Section 8 has a hard time finding people to accept. There is a reason, no matter what the propagandists try to tell you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not realtor or landlord so I’m free to say this:

1. Don’t buy in DC, where there is rent control, or where they don’t respect property (equal) rights.

2. Don’t rent to Section 8. I don’t care what they claim to promise this or that, the fact it is another party’s financing, and more restrictions and the government gets a say.

3. Don’t do business with the above. They (the government) are not honest brokers. Real estate or otherwise.

4. Why would you even be renting in a Property Class that would be Section 8 eligible for anyway? The eviction and vacancy rate is not worth the extra theoretical ROI when there is easier money that comes in, on time, every time.

5. Why do you think there is a higher risk premium and fewer players in this property class? Why do you think there are fewer below market rentals or why Section 8 has a hard time finding people to accept. There is a reason, no matter what the propagandists try to tell you.

Sound advice. The scary part is dc, and the Biden administration, doing their worst to ensure landlords have to have tenants they don’t want (section 8) foisted on them at any cost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not realtor or landlord so I’m free to say this:

1. Don’t buy in DC, where there is rent control, or where they don’t respect property (equal) rights.

2. Don’t rent to Section 8. I don’t care what they claim to promise this or that, the fact it is another party’s financing, and more restrictions and the government gets a say.

3. Don’t do business with the above. They (the government) are not honest brokers. Real estate or otherwise.

4. Why would you even be renting in a Property Class that would be Section 8 eligible for anyway? The eviction and vacancy rate is not worth the extra theoretical ROI when there is easier money that comes in, on time, every time.

5. Why do you think there is a higher risk premium and fewer players in this property class? Why do you think there are fewer below market rentals or why Section 8 has a hard time finding people to accept. There is a reason, no matter what the propagandists try to tell you.

Sound advice. The scary part is dc, and the Biden administration, doing their worst to ensure landlords have to have tenants they don’t want (section 8) foisted on them at any cost.

If public housing (and Section 8) worked, the government and the market would want more. Instead public housing is sub standard and limited, which is what you get when the government is your landlord. It should be telling that the government wants to dictate the market, without putting in the work, money or risk. They could float landlords, from their own eviction moratorium, or even buy up the distressed properties. They aren’t, and there is a reason. They want YOU to do it for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not realtor or landlord so I’m free to say this:

1. Don’t buy in DC, where there is rent control, or where they don’t respect property (equal) rights.

2. Don’t rent to Section 8. I don’t care what they claim to promise this or that, the fact it is another party’s financing, and more restrictions and the government gets a say.

3. Don’t do business with the above. They (the government) are not honest brokers. Real estate or otherwise.

4. Why would you even be renting in a Property Class that would be Section 8 eligible for anyway? The eviction and vacancy rate is not worth the extra theoretical ROI when there is easier money that comes in, on time, every time.

5. Why do you think there is a higher risk premium and fewer players in this property class? Why do you think there are fewer below market rentals or why Section 8 has a hard time finding people to accept. There is a reason, no matter what the propagandists try to tell you.

Sound advice. The scary part is dc, and the Biden administration, doing their worst to ensure landlords have to have tenants they don’t want (section 8) foisted on them at any cost.

If public housing (and Section 8) worked, the government and the market would want more. Instead public housing is sub standard and limited, which is what you get when the government is your landlord. It should be telling that the government wants to dictate the market, without putting in the work, money or risk. They could float landlords, from their own eviction moratorium, or even buy up the distressed properties. They aren’t, and there is a reason. They want YOU to do it for them.

It’s true. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/15/nyregion/real-estate-lawsuit-section-8-discrimination.html#click=https://t.co/8qPsSyUveU

Dump all the risk on landlords rather address the root causes of poverty. Either way, expect new laws cracking down on perceived racial bias in housing, which will have unintended consequences on rent affordability. The most likely culprit is anyone with a brain, or a nice property, not wanting to rent section 8 being forced to through some policy from some woke, idealist HUD bureaucrat with no idea of investment, personal risk and the like now in charge. It’s funny how accountability takes a back these days. It’s so easy to vilify a small landlord who has a mortgage.

[Anonymous]

Small landlords, big landlords, usually have external financing. Large ones just have more economies of scale, diversity, professionalism and a strategy.

Either way, a number of players will exit the market. Less rentals, and certainly less “affordable”, and the ones that remain will be the largest institutional investors (including public pensions and endowments).

Lesson learned, don’t rent to the government, don’t trust anything they say, to the extent you can don’t do business or talk to the government. Think your contract is worth a damn? Guess who makes the laws?

Not worth it. Hopefully some of the supply will go onto the open market, the larger players won’t touch it either, and the next cohort of buyers will pick it up at a discount.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all the feedback.

First of all, tenant has a steady job and still works where she was employed before Covid. Second, I have cut her enough break by not taking rent or foregoing late payments for several months. She has been constantly asking for maintenance/repair items which I am getting fixed asap.

Is there anything else I could do before contacting DCHA? I don’t want to jeopardize her chances of getting section 8 again but don’t want her to stiff me with the rent payment either.

I own a one-bedroom rental condo in DC. As a result of COVID, my tenant lost her job last year, and had almost no savings to fall back on.

I cut her rent by 50% and gave her 6 months to resume paying at 100% levels, or to move out of the unit.

At the end of the 6-month period, she moved out.

I'm sharing my story because I think many landlords have ended up cutting rent during the last year if their tenant(s) were in bad financial shape as a result of the outbreak.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all the feedback.

First of all, tenant has a steady job and still works where she was employed before Covid. Second, I have cut her enough break by not taking rent or foregoing late payments for several months. She has been constantly asking for maintenance/repair items which I am getting fixed asap.

Is there anything else I could do before contacting DCHA? I don’t want to jeopardize her chances of getting section 8 again but don’t want her to stiff me with the rent payment either.

I own a one-bedroom rental condo in DC. As a result of COVID, my tenant lost her job last year, and had almost no savings to fall back on.

I cut her rent by 50% and gave her 6 months to resume paying at 100% levels, or to move out of the unit.

At the end of the 6-month period, she moved out.

I'm sharing my story because I think many landlords have ended up cutting rent during the last year if their tenant(s) were in bad financial shape as a result of the outbreak.

It’s the difference of some rent and no rent. On the commercial side, many probably renegotiated contracts as well, and assuming if a landlord could it probably makes sense. Where are you going to find another tenant? But not all landlords on either side have that capacity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s probably too late to advise you not to buy rental properties in DC becaus renter’s rights....

Give them 30 days notice to pay you the back rent or you’ll start the eviction process.

Can't start the process. In DC right now, because of COVID, you can't kick someone out. Quite frankly, you should be happy that you are getting the 80%. I know people who are renting at market and people are paying rent. We have a friend whose tenant is stiffing them on $3500 per month and they also have a job. They work for the state department and are using this as an opportunity to get over.

Your friend should contact diplomatic security. That kind of debt could put a security clearance at risk.

Ditto, I have a state dept tenant with $3500 rent. I wanted state or similar even though I knew it would not be a long term tenant. They must pay their rent and won’t mess the place up. They can lose their clearance if you have a meritorious complaint.

[Anonymous]

Anyone who rents to Section 8 is just a fool. I never rent to Section 8 and thus have had 0 problems with tenants paying rent over the last 15+ years in DC. I’ve had literally thousands of tenants over this time. It’s not difficult people.