WaPo opinion piece on charters

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data on high needs students (ELL, students with disabilities, at risk) is collected during the enrollment audit and posted by OSSE. 2017-18 was not an anomaly.

The percentage of students at each level of disabilities (1-4) the sectors are virtually even and have been for a few years now.

DCPS sends a higher percentage of its students to private special education schools than charters. Should we consider that kicking students out and keeping who they want?

You look this up enrollment audit report too.

Please feel free to re-calculate the numbers if you would like. Without the adult ed charters.

The private school population is so small that it's hard to draw statistical conclusions from it. I suspect DCPS gets a lot of these kids through Early Stages (another great example of a service to high-needs kids that DCPS offers and charters don't), so they end up in private schools directly without going through the school choice process in the same way general education kids do.

I don’t think you know what you’re taking about. All LEAs have to evaluate children for disabilities, and I doubt there are many private placements straight out of Early Stages.

You need to give up this argument because nobody is persuaded. “Charters don’t serve special needs kids” is clearly a union shill lie.

In DCPS kids go from Early Stages evaluation to a self-contained preschool class and then to private if more is needed. Or to River Terrace or St. colette.

The argument is not that charters don't serve special needs kids. The argument is that they don't serve *more*, especially when you look at PK-12 and not adult ed.

The real point I'd that charters don't have the same responsibility to take all kids mid year, so it is not an equivalent comparison to compare budgets or performance. And that charters push out the most difficult kids. Most at risk kids do not have severe behavioral problems and are not extremely below grade level. Most kids in special ed, even with Level IV IEPs, are delightful if their needs are being handled correctly. But there is a group of very hard and expensive to serve children (and sometimes it's actually the parents that are difficult) that charters try to avoid, so DCPS must serve. It isn't about the total numbers. It is about this small group of costly and disruptive kids.

Who should be sent to their own classroom/school. Inclusion is overrated and I think too liberally interpreted. I think schools should face down any lawsuit that kids who throw desks around the room should be educated in mainstream classrooms. Is that the mosg appropriate setting, really? It would be a good project for DCPS to take in, how to appropriately educate disruptive kids.

In DCPS they would be assigned to a BES classroom or private school. There is no need to allow them to be disruptive without intervention But many charters do not operate BES or otherwise have programming to meet these needs, so the kid ends up in DCPS. Charters say "we can't meet their needs" and "not part of our model", as if they have no choice of what their model is and it"s out of their hands. There won't be a clear comparison across sectors in cost or performance until the charter sector comes up with a way of serving these kids instead of dumping them on DCPS.

[Anonymous]

NO ONE deserves medals for how they educate students with severe disabilities.

This is a tired talking point. And it angers me that the only time it ever comes up here is when ppl are yammering about DCPS vs charters.

[Anonymous]

My two cents. DCPS will have an increase of students in 2021-2022 school year due to the expulsions from the charter schools. I base this assumption on what has happened in my DC HRCS. Many of the disruptive children who attended school do not bother to sign in and participate in DL. The school provides computers but DC states many kids are not online. They are truly being left behind and the school will retain them or encourage them to leave when regular operations resume.

DCPS and the WTU will have to educate these children, not the charter schools most of us send our children to avoid these children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data on high needs students (ELL, students with disabilities, at risk) is collected during the enrollment audit and posted by OSSE. 2017-18 was not an anomaly.

The percentage of students at each level of disabilities (1-4) the sectors are virtually even and have been for a few years now.

DCPS sends a higher percentage of its students to private special education schools than charters. Should we consider that kicking students out and keeping who they want?

You look this up enrollment audit report too.

DCPS has MORE children with disabilities on a higher level. Most charters don't even have self-contained programs.

Also you think DCPS wants to send these kids to private? You are not familiar with DCPS' or their 'easily sued' history...

DCPS was notorious for having to send kids to private placements because of screwing up procedural IDEA issues.

As for higher level disabilities, the data actually show that DCPS and charters serve about the same percentage (charters a tiny bit higher).

Are you still talking about the 17-18 data that includes adult ed? Meh.

are you still trying to pretend your argument is relevant? lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NO ONE deserves medals for how they educate students with severe disabilities.

This is a tired talking point. And it angers me that the only time it ever comes up here is when ppl are yammering about DCPS vs charters.

^^ exactly. it’s a union talking point that needs to be summarily dismissed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NO ONE deserves medals for how they educate students with severe disabilities.

This is a tired talking point. And it angers me that the only time it ever comes up here is when ppl are yammering about DCPS vs charters.

^^ exactly. it’s a union talking point that needs to be summarily dismissed.

This has nothing to do with the union. NO ONE does a good job educating children with severe needs. It’s disgusting and a true sadness of the education system in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NO ONE deserves medals for how they educate students with severe disabilities.

This is a tired talking point. And it angers me that the only time it ever comes up here is when ppl are yammering about DCPS vs charters.

^^ exactly. it’s a union talking point that needs to be summarily dismissed.

This has nothing to do with the union. NO ONE does a good job educating children with severe needs. It’s disgusting and a true sadness of the education system in this country.

right, I know it doesn’t. my point is that it’s not an argument specifically against charters either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NO ONE deserves medals for how they educate students with severe disabilities.

This is a tired talking point. And it angers me that the only time it ever comes up here is when ppl are yammering about DCPS vs charters.

^^ exactly. it’s a union talking point that needs to be summarily dismissed.

This has nothing to do with the union. NO ONE does a good job educating children with severe needs. It’s disgusting and a true sadness of the education system in this country.

right, I know it doesn’t. my point is that it’s not an argument specifically against charters either.

IME as a parent of a student with SN, it is. Charters can and do send these children back to their IB school which must accept them and where they will spend another year failing - or being failed by - school before they might get the support they need. The charters don’t deal with the fallout of their failure, DCPSs do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NO ONE deserves medals for how they educate students with severe disabilities.

This is a tired talking point. And it angers me that the only time it ever comes up here is when ppl are yammering about DCPS vs charters.

^^ exactly. it’s a union talking point that needs to be summarily dismissed.

This has nothing to do with the union. NO ONE does a good job educating children with severe needs. It’s disgusting and a true sadness of the education system in this country.

right, I know it doesn’t. my point is that it’s not an argument specifically against charters either.

IME as a parent of a student with SN, it is. Charters can and do send these children back to their IB school which must accept them and where they will spend another year failing - or being failed by - school before they might get the support they need. The charters don’t deal with the fallout of their failure, DCPSs do.

Sigh. Except the statistics just don’t show a huge disparity in the percentage of SN kids in charters vs DCPS. And the expulsion rates are not that different between DCPS and charters either. I just don’t see any systematic research showing charters are uniquely bad at serving SN kids. My own anecdotal experience with my SN kid is bad service by our IB, decent support from DCPS central, and charters that seem much better educated about SN. My friend’s child is very well supported in a charter. Another friend asked every school she toured if they have isolation rooms - charters were all over the map. I just see zero basis to believe that charters as a sector do works than DCPS.

The most recent research I can find on charter discipline is that charters expel at *slightly* higher rates than DCPS. And since DCPS issues long-term suspensions and transfers to alternative schools for severe issues, the expulsion comparison may not be correct. Surely there are grounds for improvement but “charters expell SN kids and that’s why their test scores are better!!” is a union canard.

https://www.gao.gov/assets/690/682673.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My two cents. DCPS will have an increase of students in 2021-2022 school year due to the expulsions from the charter schools. I base this assumption on what has happened in my DC HRCS. Many of the disruptive children who attended school do not bother to sign in and participate in DL. The school provides computers but DC states many kids are not online. They are truly being left behind and the school will retain them or encourage them to leave when regular operations resume.

DCPS and the WTU will have to educate these children, not the charter schools most of us send our children to avoid these children.

This post reeks. I hope you’re not at my kid’s HRSC. Signed, parent of a “disruptive” kid with an IEP (and yes, virtual learning is a nightmare and not effective for him, but we do our best.) Sorry you weren’t able to avoid him by being at an HRSC....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NO ONE deserves medals for how they educate students with severe disabilities.

This is a tired talking point. And it angers me that the only time it ever comes up here is when ppl are yammering about DCPS vs charters.

^^ exactly. it’s a union talking point that needs to be summarily dismissed.

This has nothing to do with the union. NO ONE does a good job educating children with severe needs. It’s disgusting and a true sadness of the education system in this country.

right, I know it doesn’t. my point is that it’s not an argument specifically against charters either.

IME as a parent of a student with SN, it is. Charters can and do send these children back to their IB school which must accept them and where they will spend another year failing - or being failed by - school before they might get the support they need. The charters don’t deal with the fallout of their failure, DCPSs do.

Sigh. Except the statistics just don’t show a huge disparity in the percentage of SN kids in charters vs DCPS. And the expulsion rates are not that different between DCPS and charters either. I just don’t see any systematic research showing charters are uniquely bad at serving SN kids. My own anecdotal experience with my SN kid is bad service by our IB, decent support from DCPS central, and charters that seem much better educated about SN. My friend’s child is very well supported in a charter. Another friend asked every school she toured if they have isolation rooms - charters were all over the map. I just see zero basis to believe that charters as a sector do works than DCPS.

The most recent research I can find on charter discipline is that charters expel at *slightly* higher rates than DCPS. And since DCPS issues long-term suspensions and transfers to alternative schools for severe issues, the expulsion comparison may not be correct. Surely there are grounds for improvement but “charters expell SN kids and that’s why their test scores are better!!” is a union canard.

https://www.gao.gov/assets/690/682673.pdf

We have had direct bad experiences at both DCPS and charters. Charters don’t have to expel kids to get them to leave so expulsion numbers are not as useful as one might think. They often simply don’t support a student and the parents move to another school rather than fight. Yes, I know the school is supposed to support the student and the parents can have IEP meetings and bring an advocate, etcetcetc. Sometimes a parent doesn’t want to stay at a school that doesn’t want to help their child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My two cents. DCPS will have an increase of students in 2021-2022 school year due to the expulsions from the charter schools. I base this assumption on what has happened in my DC HRCS. Many of the disruptive children who attended school do not bother to sign in and participate in DL. The school provides computers but DC states many kids are not online. They are truly being left behind and the school will retain them or encourage them to leave when regular operations resume.

DCPS and the WTU will have to educate these children, not the charter schools most of us send our children to avoid these children.

This post reeks. I hope you’re not at my kid’s HRSC. Signed, parent of a “disruptive” kid with an IEP (and yes, virtual learning is a nightmare and not effective for him, but we do our best.) Sorry you weren’t able to avoid him by being at an HRSC....

Truth hurts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My two cents. DCPS will have an increase of students in 2021-2022 school year due to the expulsions from the charter schools. I base this assumption on what has happened in my DC HRCS. Many of the disruptive children who attended school do not bother to sign in and participate in DL. The school provides computers but DC states many kids are not online. They are truly being left behind and the school will retain them or encourage them to leave when regular operations resume.

DCPS and the WTU will have to educate these children, not the charter schools most of us send our children to avoid these children.

This post reeks. I hope you’re not at my kid’s HRSC. Signed, parent of a “disruptive” kid with an IEP (and yes, virtual learning is a nightmare and not effective for him, but we do our best.) Sorry you weren’t able to avoid him by being at an HRSC....

Truth hurts.

Wait, I thought parents sent kids to charters for the learning experience not to avoid other kids! Kids from their neighborhood? Kids with IEPs? Any others? What does that say about you? About your school?

[Anonymous]

My kids' charter has added people to the special ed team over the past couple years, so I don't think they're counseling out kids with IEPs but rather they're providing more services. My kid has an IEP and someone I know who works in a DCPS said they were surprised my kid gets what she does because in the DCPS school she probably would not have been given so many minutes/hours of services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids' charter has added people to the special ed team over the past couple years, so I don't think they're counseling out kids with IEPs but rather they're providing more services. My kid has an IEP and someone I know who works in a DCPS said they were surprised my kid gets what she does because in the DCPS school she probably would not have been given so many minutes/hours of services.

That’s because funding is based on the level of services. More services? Higher needs IEP...more funding. Charters don’t have to share it with central office. They get all the funds. They may, in fact, be making money off of your child.