Gov’t saying I was overpaid and they want $$ back

[Anonymous]

I am a brand new federal government employee. I started a few months ago during the pandemic. I can totally understand how this could happen. First of all, hr in my agency is incompetent. Second of all, they throw so many pieces of paper at you and you would have no idea if any were correct. I can check later but I would have no idea if it was wrong.

[Anonymous]

you're earnings and leave statement is available online- depending on the agency on a different site, but you should have gotten sign in details when you started. Compare that to what you were hired as to the published OPM tables. They should all match, if not find out who in your business unit works with HR- they will almost certainly be more competent than whoever you call in HR and will be able to take it to someone who can fix it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not at a federal but a private sector job.
They paid for something an employee received (think along the lines of education) which he was supposed to pay back if he left the job before a certain date. He even signed a paper to that effect.
Well lo and behold he left immediately after the service was provided, and they went after him. He started writing them letters, asking for detailed invoices, sending links to laws saying it wasn’t lawful to request the refund, asking for discounts due to his performance reviews and the value he brought to the company etc.
At some point they just stopped responding. It’s been a couple years now and his credit isn’t affected. He was prepared to fight it in small claims court if they ever turned it over to collection.
The amount was around $12k.

I think the strategy of sending them letters and wearing them out can work. Ask them whose mistake it was; who was responsible for the oversight of the employment/hr records etc etc.
I think it will look bad if they turn it over to collection. Then you go to small claims court and it will be too costly and bad for their reputation to fight it.

I don't think the reputational effects are going to come into play when the government is the employer; the federal government regularly goes after repayment from little old ladies and disabled people when it overpays them social security due to the government's own error.

And, would the federal government even go into small claims court? Wouldn't it just file in federal court from the get go? It's such an easy case for the government - the material of summary judgment motions.

I doubt they even have to file in federal court. I am sure there is some sort of administrative proceeding that covers this and they either garnish the overpayment from your check or your tax return.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not at a federal but a private sector job.
They paid for something an employee received (think along the lines of education) which he was supposed to pay back if he left the job before a certain date. He even signed a paper to that effect.
Well lo and behold he left immediately after the service was provided, and they went after him. He started writing them letters, asking for detailed invoices, sending links to laws saying it wasn’t lawful to request the refund, asking for discounts due to his performance reviews and the value he brought to the company etc.
At some point they just stopped responding. It’s been a couple years now and his credit isn’t affected. He was prepared to fight it in small claims court if they ever turned it over to collection.
The amount was around $12k.

I think the strategy of sending them letters and wearing them out can work. Ask them whose mistake it was; who was responsible for the oversight of the employment/hr records etc etc.
I think it will look bad if they turn it over to collection. Then you go to small claims court and it will be too costly and bad for their reputation to fight it.

I don't think the reputational effects are going to come into play when the government is the employer; the federal government regularly goes after repayment from little old ladies and disabled people when it overpays them social security due to the government's own error.

And, would the federal government even go into small claims court? Wouldn't it just file in federal court from the get go? It's such an easy case for the government - the material of summary judgment motions.

there is and if you think they're wrong and want to waist money on lawyers, the court of federal claims would have jurisdiction - their bar is not large and not cheap and someone who doesn't practice there would be worthless, so good luck not spending more fighting it than they're saying you owe

I doubt they even have to file in federal court. I am sure there is some sort of administrative proceeding that covers this and they either garnish the overpayment from your check or your tax return.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:you're earnings and leave statement is available online- depending on the agency on a different site, but you should have gotten sign in details when you started. Compare that to what you were hired as to the published OPM tables. They should all match, if not find out who in your business unit works with HR- they will almost certainly be more competent than whoever you call in HR and will be able to take it to someone who can fix it

It's great to have the details in your ELS but you have to know what you are looking for.

About 8 years ago, the FERS program changed. The first wave was to put new employees into FERS-RAE and then subsequent employees into FERS-FRAE. That's a manual entry by HR and mistakes happen. If I were to poll my office on the spot, I'd guess that 75% or more have no idea what program they are in, what the difference is, or what HR is supposed to be withholding. I bet a lot of people would have no idea what FERS is in the first place. In those first couple years there were tons of issues with people getting put into the wrong FERS program through no fault of their own (that entry is solely done by HR so it has nothing to do with filling out a form wrong).

However, ignorance is no excuse under the law. Federal HR is extremely complicated and you are expected to be an expert. That means it's vital to understand your ELS and every penny that is being withheld. The government always places the burden on the employee even though the government does shoddy HR work and keeps terrible records.

While not as common anymore, leave accrual is another issue that I've seen come up where HR improperly puts someone into a higher leave accrual earning rate. If found, you'll be on the hook for the extra leave you were "overpaid" for.

In a previous job at a cabinet agency we saw these issues all the time and we waived debts in almost every case. Rare was there ever evidence of fraud of malfeasance so we generally tried to make things right for our employees but that could have also been because we had a benevolent CFO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

About 8 years ago, the FERS program changed. The first wave was to put new employees into FERS-RAE and then subsequent employees into FERS-FRAE. That's a manual entry by HR and mistakes happen. If I were to poll my office on the spot, I'd guess that 75% or more have no idea what program they are in, what the difference is, or what HR is supposed to be withholding. I bet a lot of people would have no idea what FERS is in the first place. In those first couple years there were tons of issues with people getting put into the wrong FERS program through no fault of their own (that entry is solely done by HR so it has nothing to do with filling out a form wrong).

When I switched fed jobs years ago, my former agency's HR walked me through all the items to look for in my first E&L and FERS was at the top of the list. My new agency's HR was still incorrectly coding FERS in 2018, particularly for new federal employees who were eligible for original FERS based on service in Americorps or Peace Corps. I don't recall the agency refunding the extra contributions, however.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nothing but sympathy. I learned to watch my pay statements like a hawk because my overseas entitlements change so frequently. After my most recent PCS back to DC, it took several months for my hardship differential to stop. I emailed HR multiple times about it, knowing that I would be expected to pay it back. It took MONTHS for payroll to get it right. And then they were like, you must pay this back immediately. I'd kept the overpayment in a savings account so was ready to return it in a lump sum, but it was still an incredibly annoying process. Like, how come the government got all the time it wanted to get its accounting right, and I had mere days to correct its mistake before my wages would be garnished? I would have been in for a world of hurt had I not noticed and planned accordingly. And to you naysayers, it's really easy not to notice when you do direct deposit and have a lot of payroll deductions (my take-home is generally about 40% of my actual gross) and bills on autopay.

+1 - I'm the PP that said I was dealing with something similar - all of it was overseas entitlements that were mistakenly turned on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your offer letter, SF-50 and E&L statements all had the correct grade/step and annual salary then I could understand how the extra pay went unnoticed. If they did not match, you should have noticed and should arrange a payment plan.

You must be in accounting. I am not that sensitive to numbers, and I always assume the system is correct. After reading the bad experiences on this thread, I think I will look at mine tomorrow.

NP. Really? I've been in the work force for over 30 years. I've worked for multiple employers. I ended up as a federal agency contractor and have stayed at the same agency for 28 years, so have worked for 7 employers during that stay on 7 contracts (not completely overlapping).

Every time I changed employer or contract, I always make sure to take the salary offered and divide by 24 or 26 (24 if the pay period is twice per month, 26 if the pay period is every 2 weeks). When I get the first paycheck, I compare that amount with the gross pay to make sure that what they offered and what I am receiving are in sync. If not, then I contact HR right away. It's only happened once and I was short-changed because of a data entry error. I find that these things are best to be fixed at the start before I get too far into a job. It takes less than a minute to check, but is pretty important and would have caught this problem before it became a costly one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your offer letter, SF-50 and E&L statements all had the correct grade/step and annual salary then I could understand how the extra pay went unnoticed. If they did not match, you should have noticed and should arrange a payment plan.

You must be in accounting. I am not that sensitive to numbers, and I always assume the system is correct. After reading the bad experiences on this thread, I think I will look at mine tomorrow.

NP. Really? I've been in the work force for over 30 years. I've worked for multiple employers. I ended up as a federal agency contractor and have stayed at the same agency for 28 years, so have worked for 7 employers during that stay on 7 contracts (not completely overlapping).

Every time I changed employer or contract, I always make sure to take the salary offered and divide by 24 or 26 (24 if the pay period is twice per month, 26 if the pay period is every 2 weeks). When I get the first paycheck, I compare that amount with the gross pay to make sure that what they offered and what I am receiving are in sync. If not, then I contact HR right away. It's only happened once and I was short-changed because of a data entry error. I find that these things are best to be fixed at the start before I get too far into a job. It takes less than a minute to check, but is pretty important and would have caught this problem before it became a costly one.

Well that's nice for you, but that doesn't work if you don't know what benefits are.

[Anonymous]

Federal benefits aren't hidden or a secret

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Federal benefits aren't hidden or a secret

+1 Also, the line item PP was talking about was gross pay. That is a separate and distinct line item. There are different wage codes for other allotments that people may be subject to.

[Anonymous]

Your story is insane! If they put you on a higher step to begin with, how would you even know??

DH was overpaid 24k over 2 years (2017-2019) and oh yes we had to pay it back. DH is always on details and international travel and it also coincided with an actual raise he got. His work had left him on a higher level of pay for a different international locality. After taxes and all it was only a few hundred dollars a paycheck (which is why we didn't notice). It really sucked to pay that back.

[Anonymous]

You knew it before you left so this should not be a surprise. Keep in mind you also overpaid your taxes, SS and FICA. I’d get an accountant to figure it out and then negotiate a payment plan.

[Anonymous]

They will get it back no matter what. This isn’t a private sector employer who will lose interest: they will just summarily take it out of a future check, withhold it leave payout if you depart federal service, and ultimately just send the IRS after you.

My favorite: I was overpaid (double payment for a spot award) and HR wanted me to pay them the gross amount back. I brought the stub and even my bank statement to show I’d obviously only gotten the net. It took a supervisor to realize how dumb this was. Federal HR is neither smart nor fast (but they’re dogged: you will pay it back) b

[Anonymous]

i am a fed and so paranoid about not wanting to deal with the govt on this kind of thing that i once wrote the govt a check when i was overpaid by $1. Anyone who hasn't worked for the govt has no idea what they are talking about.