Elizabeth Wurtzel (prozac nation) is dead at 52.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Her first book made a lot of “literary” waves (both by being loved and hated), and paved the way for similar memoirs, including many by black women (Roxane Gay is a clear descendant). People of any race who are into that world would have been aware of it, but if you’re not big into navel-gazing literary controversies it easily could have passed you by.

I think what triggered me was that the reviews suggested that she had such an impact on Gen X. I went to a women’s college and so that’s why I was really curious as a black woman. This is been so intriguing to me that I called a girlfriend who is also black. She had the same reaction that I did. I told her I was calling her because she was black and went to Harvard so maybe she had a different perspective. She didn’t. We have the same perspective. We laughed about it.

Yeah, but there are several whites women on the thread saying she had no impact or they didnt know who she was. So why extrapolate to a race distinction?

PP posed a question and hypothesis. Why is the mention of race making you so uncomfortable?

It's not the mention of race, it's the suggestion of extrapolating one person's experience into a racial thing. That's lazy and prejudiced. If I posted saying my coworker always suggests having wine at work and asked if that's a "black woman thing" people would be horrified, and for good reason. Or if I said my other coworker likes to imitate accents, and is that a "Hispanic thing." That's ignorant. I don't assume that because my coworkers of any particular race, age, religion do something, that that means everyone of that race, age, or religion does that thing. It's equally ignorant coming from this PP and from you.

You've got to be joking. There are cultural differences between races. I believe they should be celebrated. Why are you so offended. I find that really interesting. I look forward to learning about different races and cultures. Don't you? When I spend time with my best friend's family (she's Mexican), it's WAY different. When I spend time with her Korean husband's family, it's WAY different. What is wrong with that? That's not ignorant. I went to a Phish concert on New Year's Eve. Definitely white space. Do you listen to the Snap Judgement podcast? Glenn Washington, the narrator and married to a white woman, did an entire episode on white space. It was spot on.

I'm not saying there's not. I'm saying it's ridiculous to jump to the conclusion that anything you haven't experienced personally must be due to a cultural difference between races instead of, you know, your own personal experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is very scary and upsetting that this cancer was caught at stage 2, she had aggressive treatment, access to best doctors in nyc etc, and it still killed her within 5 yrs of diagnosis. And young, too. Awful.

Breast cancer treatment sucks. Biopsies can seed cancer cells. Lymph node tests not accurate. Chemo that does not touch some cancer cells. Cancer-free is a myth that you have no way of knowing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Her first book made a lot of “literary” waves (both by being loved and hated), and paved the way for similar memoirs, including many by black women (Roxane Gay is a clear descendant). People of any race who are into that world would have been aware of it, but if you’re not big into navel-gazing literary controversies it easily could have passed you by.

I think what triggered me was that the reviews suggested that she had such an impact on Gen X. I went to a women’s college and so that’s why I was really curious as a black woman. This is been so intriguing to me that I called a girlfriend who is also black. She had the same reaction that I did. I told her I was calling her because she was black and went to Harvard so maybe she had a different perspective. She didn’t. We have the same perspective. We laughed about it.

Again, she clearly paved the way for a certain kind of work or voice, which, again, clearly was very influential on Gen X. Maybe you didn’t tie the trends and impact she had to her, but those reviews are obviously correct.

+1. Just because it didn't impact the PP doesn't mean that it was not influential in literature or for Gen X. It doesn't have to affect literally every member of Gen X. Either way, I think it says something about the PP that she felt the need to comment dismissively (which is exactly what the PP's original comment was) on a thread saying that someone is dead. If you've never heard of her, fine, move along. There are plenty of threads about people you have heard of. That you came on this thread to comment dismissively that you've never heard of her doesn't make you look like a nice, thoughtful person, and calling a friend to laugh about how it must've been a white woman thing because the two of you had never heard of this person just doubles down on the "not nice and thoughtful" image.

+2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Her first book made a lot of “literary” waves (both by being loved and hated), and paved the way for similar memoirs, including many by black women (Roxane Gay is a clear descendant). People of any race who are into that world would have been aware of it, but if you’re not big into navel-gazing literary controversies it easily could have passed you by.

I think what triggered me was that the reviews suggested that she had such an impact on Gen X. I went to a women’s college and so that’s why I was really curious as a black woman. This is been so intriguing to me that I called a girlfriend who is also black. She had the same reaction that I did. I told her I was calling her because she was black and went to Harvard so maybe she had a different perspective. She didn’t. We have the same perspective. We laughed about it.

Again, she clearly paved the way for a certain kind of work or voice, which, again, clearly was very influential on Gen X. Maybe you didn’t tie the trends and impact she had to her, but those reviews are obviously correct.

+1. Just because it didn't impact the PP doesn't mean that it was not influential in literature or for Gen X. It doesn't have to affect literally every member of Gen X. Either way, I think it says something about the PP that she felt the need to comment dismissively (which is exactly what the PP's original comment was) on a thread saying that someone is dead. If you've never heard of her, fine, move along. There are plenty of threads about people you have heard of. That you came on this thread to comment dismissively that you've never heard of her doesn't make you look like a nice, thoughtful person, and calling a friend to laugh about how it must've been a white woman thing because the two of you had never heard of this person just doubles down on the "not nice and thoughtful" image.

+2.

She wasn't influential in literature for Gen x. I am Gen X and I studied literature and worked in literary agencies in London. No one was talking about this woman. Her influence didn't cast much of a shadow beyond the borders of Manhattan.

[Anonymous]

Sad she was divorcing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Her first book made a lot of “literary” waves (both by being loved and hated), and paved the way for similar memoirs, including many by black women (Roxane Gay is a clear descendant). People of any race who are into that world would have been aware of it, but if you’re not big into navel-gazing literary controversies it easily could have passed you by.

I think what triggered me was that the reviews suggested that she had such an impact on Gen X. I went to a women’s college and so that’s why I was really curious as a black woman. This is been so intriguing to me that I called a girlfriend who is also black. She had the same reaction that I did. I told her I was calling her because she was black and went to Harvard so maybe she had a different perspective. She didn’t. We have the same perspective. We laughed about it.

Again, she clearly paved the way for a certain kind of work or voice, which, again, clearly was very influential on Gen X. Maybe you didn’t tie the trends and impact she had to her, but those reviews are obviously correct.

+1. Just because it didn't impact the PP doesn't mean that it was not influential in literature or for Gen X. It doesn't have to affect literally every member of Gen X. Either way, I think it says something about the PP that she felt the need to comment dismissively (which is exactly what the PP's original comment was) on a thread saying that someone is dead. If you've never heard of her, fine, move along. There are plenty of threads about people you have heard of. That you came on this thread to comment dismissively that you've never heard of her doesn't make you look like a nice, thoughtful person, and calling a friend to laugh about how it must've been a white woman thing because the two of you had never heard of this person just doubles down on the "not nice and thoughtful" image.

+2.

She wasn't influential in literature for Gen x. I am Gen X and I studied literature and worked in literary agencies in London. No one was talking about this woman. Her influence didn't cast much of a shadow beyond the borders of Manhattan.

Not in literary fiction. It’s really revisionist and silly to pretend the memoir didn’t become an enormous deal in the 90s and 00s. I studied English and worked in publishing in NYC a couple of years after her first boon came out and it was a fairly big deal and influence into the kinds of works newly pursued by agencies IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Her first book made a lot of “literary” waves (both by being loved and hated), and paved the way for similar memoirs, including many by black women (Roxane Gay is a clear descendant). People of any race who are into that world would have been aware of it, but if you’re not big into navel-gazing literary controversies it easily could have passed you by.

I think what triggered me was that the reviews suggested that she had such an impact on Gen X. I went to a women’s college and so that’s why I was really curious as a black woman. This is been so intriguing to me that I called a girlfriend who is also black. She had the same reaction that I did. I told her I was calling her because she was black and went to Harvard so maybe she had a different perspective. She didn’t. We have the same perspective. We laughed about it.

Again, she clearly paved the way for a certain kind of work or voice, which, again, clearly was very influential on Gen X. Maybe you didn’t tie the trends and impact she had to her, but those reviews are obviously correct.

+1. Just because it didn't impact the PP doesn't mean that it was not influential in literature or for Gen X. It doesn't have to affect literally every member of Gen X. Either way, I think it says something about the PP that she felt the need to comment dismissively (which is exactly what the PP's original comment was) on a thread saying that someone is dead. If you've never heard of her, fine, move along. There are plenty of threads about people you have heard of. That you came on this thread to comment dismissively that you've never heard of her doesn't make you look like a nice, thoughtful person, and calling a friend to laugh about how it must've been a white woman thing because the two of you had never heard of this person just doubles down on the "not nice and thoughtful" image.

+2.

She wasn't influential in literature for Gen x. I am Gen X and I studied literature and worked in literary agencies in London. No one was talking about this woman. Her influence didn't cast much of a shadow beyond the borders of Manhattan.

Not in literary fiction. It’s really revisionist and silly to pretend the memoir didn’t become an enormous deal in the 90s and 00s. I studied English and worked in publishing in NYC a couple of years after her first boon came out and it was a fairly big deal and influence into the kinds of works newly pursued by agencies IMO.

+1. People are really being asshats on this thread. FWIW, I’m a black woman in my 40s and I remember Prozac Nation. It was a big deal. But I have depression in my family so maybe I was the target audience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Her first book made a lot of “literary” waves (both by being loved and hated), and paved the way for similar memoirs, including many by black women (Roxane Gay is a clear descendant). People of any race who are into that world would have been aware of it, but if you’re not big into navel-gazing literary controversies it easily could have passed you by.

I think what triggered me was that the reviews suggested that she had such an impact on Gen X. I went to a women’s college and so that’s why I was really curious as a black woman. This is been so intriguing to me that I called a girlfriend who is also black. She had the same reaction that I did. I told her I was calling her because she was black and went to Harvard so maybe she had a different perspective. She didn’t. We have the same perspective. We laughed about it.

Again, she clearly paved the way for a certain kind of work or voice, which, again, clearly was very influential on Gen X. Maybe you didn’t tie the trends and impact she had to her, but those reviews are obviously correct.

+1. Just because it didn't impact the PP doesn't mean that it was not influential in literature or for Gen X. It doesn't have to affect literally every member of Gen X. Either way, I think it says something about the PP that she felt the need to comment dismissively (which is exactly what the PP's original comment was) on a thread saying that someone is dead. If you've never heard of her, fine, move along. There are plenty of threads about people you have heard of. That you came on this thread to comment dismissively that you've never heard of her doesn't make you look like a nice, thoughtful person, and calling a friend to laugh about how it must've been a white woman thing because the two of you had never heard of this person just doubles down on the "not nice and thoughtful" image.

+2.

She wasn't influential in literature for Gen x. I am Gen X and I studied literature and worked in literary agencies in London. No one was talking about this woman. Her influence didn't cast much of a shadow beyond the borders of Manhattan.

Not in literary fiction. It’s really revisionist and silly to pretend the memoir didn’t become an enormous deal in the 90s and 00s. I studied English and worked in publishing in NYC a couple of years after her first boon came out and it was a fairly big deal and influence into the kinds of works newly pursued by agencies IMO.

+1. People are really being asshats on this thread. FWIW, I’m a black woman in my 40s and I remember Prozac Nation. It was a big deal. But I have depression in my family so maybe I was the target audience.

+2 Major asshats. Maybe culturally unaware? Maybe old Gen X? If I had to put a time capsule together for Gen X from the 90's with 20 items, this would probably make it in there, and I think that's not an entirely unfounded thought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The story of her wedding in 2015 sounds really lovely. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/31/style/elizabeth-wurtzel-finds-someone-to-love-her.html

Though I find it disturbing her initial diagnosis was only stage 2 breast cancer. That's a fairly early stage for diagnosis, to have it turn out to be terminal in the end.

30% of early stage breast cancer becomes stage four (terminal). People forget that admist all the pink washing.

Yes.

It's sad. My father had Stage 2 (very early, non-aggressive colon cancer). 90% survival rate for 5 years. Statistics for after 5 years aren't clear. It came back aggressive Stage IV in year 6.5.

My DH has stage 4 lung cancer. Cancer sucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m the PP who went to law school with her. To be clear, Elizabeth was never particularly interested in studying the law (she got a 152 or something like that on the LSAT) - but no one at my school doubted she was extremely talented. And she wasn’t a vanity hire - David Boies was a fan of hers, from what I heard. That said, she was never going to be a partner at BSF or any other big law firm. My classmates are all very sad, she was an incredibly charismatic and magnetic figure.

I think we must be friends w/ very different folks from our law school days. I was in her original class; she ended up a class behind because she failed a 1L class (which is virtually impossible) even though the professor bent over backwards to accommodate her. I only know one person from our class who considered her a friend or would describe her as incredibly charismatic or magnetic. She behaved appallingly in multiple classes, was generally unpleasant to be around, had perhaps the biggest ego I have ever encountered and, yes, ended up as a vanity hire at Boies... which she lasted at for like 3 years. Any time someone dies it's sad, particularly when they die young, and I actually do think she was an incredibly talented writer, but otherwise... I am very puzzled by your depiction of our classmates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This must have been a white woman thing. I'm 50 and Black and I do not remember this book. Is it just me?

It's fine that you don't remember the book or that the topic didn't interest you. But you don't have to denigrate it as a "white woman thing." Think about what you are doing. Is anything that simply didn't cross your radar written off now as a petty bourgeois exercise in racism? Croatia? Must have been a white woman thing.

+1000
I’m almost 52, white, and hadn’t heard of her. Please stop dividing EVERYTHING up along racial lines.

In this context, it’s racial and cultural. That’s not a bad thing. It just is. Jesus.

Or it's just something some people are into and others not. I'm white, 39, and was in Wurtzel's law school class. Had civ pro with her actually. I never heard of her or her book until a classmate told me she was famous. I tried to read it and could not. Word vomit combined with really poor choices. She was a train wreck. I'm sorry she's dead and she had a tough life, but her later in life choices were her own. And yes, everyone knew she was not interested in practicing law, which to be fair was not particularly unusual at YLS. I know lots of other classmates who no longer practice law. Including a fair number who never did, and a few who never took or passed the bar.

Ahh, immediate PP here. You are more representative of the classmates I keep in touch with. If you were in her civ pro class the first time she took it, I'm sure we know each other. As I said, I enjoyed Prozac Nation and think she was a gifted writer, but train wreck is really a perfect description of her in law school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Her first book made a lot of “literary” waves (both by being loved and hated), and paved the way for similar memoirs, including many by black women (Roxane Gay is a clear descendant). People of any race who are into that world would have been aware of it, but if you’re not big into navel-gazing literary controversies it easily could have passed you by.

I think what triggered me was that the reviews suggested that she had such an impact on Gen X. I went to a women’s college and so that’s why I was really curious as a black woman. This is been so intriguing to me that I called a girlfriend who is also black. She had the same reaction that I did. I told her I was calling her because she was black and went to Harvard so maybe she had a different perspective. She didn’t. We have the same perspective. We laughed about it.

Again, she clearly paved the way for a certain kind of work or voice, which, again, clearly was very influential on Gen X. Maybe you didn’t tie the trends and impact she had to her, but those reviews are obviously correct.

+1. Just because it didn't impact the PP doesn't mean that it was not influential in literature or for Gen X. It doesn't have to affect literally every member of Gen X. Either way, I think it says something about the PP that she felt the need to comment dismissively (which is exactly what the PP's original comment was) on a thread saying that someone is dead. If you've never heard of her, fine, move along. There are plenty of threads about people you have heard of. That you came on this thread to comment dismissively that you've never heard of her doesn't make you look like a nice, thoughtful person, and calling a friend to laugh about how it must've been a white woman thing because the two of you had never heard of this person just doubles down on the "not nice and thoughtful" image.

+2.

She wasn't influential in literature for Gen x. I am Gen X and I studied literature and worked in literary agencies in London. No one was talking about this woman. Her influence didn't cast much of a shadow beyond the borders of Manhattan.

She wasn’t influential... except in the American capital of publishing? Oh ok thanks for your contribution

[Anonymous]

I’m the same as she was and remember the media circus about her book. Very sad that she died so young.

Her life is instructive in a lot of ways. Only in Harvard World do people abuse substances and get fired for plagiarism but go on to make millions and have adoring profiles written about them. She would never have had the initial opportunities she had—let alone the second chances and the third chances and the fourth chances, and even after all of that, the book contracts and the Ivy League law school admission—if she hadn’t come from an extremely privileged background and had the Harvard degree. Try those antics with a degree from Ohio State and see how far you get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m the same as she was and remember the media circus about her book. Very sad that she died so young.

Her life is instructive in a lot of ways. Only in Harvard World do people abuse substances and get fired for plagiarism but go on to make millions and have adoring profiles written about them. She would never have had the initial opportunities she had—let alone the second chances and the third chances and the fourth chances, and even after all of that, the book contracts and the Ivy League law school admission—if she hadn’t come from an extremely privileged background and had the Harvard degree. Try those antics with a degree from Ohio State and see how far you get.

*same age as she was

[Anonymous]

The PP who worked in publishing in NYC - you're right it was really only a NYC thing, which is why you heard about it and thought it was "big" the rest of the world really didn't give a flying f..