The quiet rooms

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s a lawsuit against FCPS for abusive use of these rooms in their public schools and in the contract schools they send disabled children to.

Good. It’s about time. I really hope they lose, as my son abused by FCPS in this manner. Punishment should involve locking the responsible teachers in a small padded room and see how well they cope!

Disagree, I think they should be “secluding” the admins at gatehouse who refuse to staff programs correctly and fund enough behavioral specialists and other resources, then turn a blind eye to the result.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, parents advocated for their kids to be in inclusive mainstream schools and classes. Cake, meet eating it too.

What’s the alternative? Leave them in the classroom when having a meltdown where they could harm another student? Placing them in the hall won’t work, either. Trying to transport them to the office could cause big injuries because teachers cannot touch them. Honestly, while horrific sounding, these rooms seem like the best option.

My SIL has had her fingers and wrist broken on 3 separate occasions by out of control kids. Not many people outside of athletes can say that’s happened to them at work. There are absolutely kids who spend hours in these rooms because there is no other alternative according to her. Even the behavioral specialists cannot deescalate some kids.

Wrong. Kids being put in seclusion closets are already in self contained special ed classrooms (or schools). They have much smaller classes and the adult:kid ratio should be in the range of 1:4. They should have detailed behavioral plans being documented and followed that prevent most of these meltdowns from happening, and support from psychologists and behavior specialists. When a meltdown happens, the other students in the room should be moved out to another learning space (a pod in the hallway with books, for instance) and the child allowed to calm down without being touched or moved and then process with a teacher.

I do not get this at all. Where are the 24 other students supposed to go? Why do they lose their right to learn? How is the right of the one kid more important than the rights of the other 24?

I think that it again needs repeating- these children are not mainstreamed with 24 other kids. These are kids that are already in special education programs that have much smaller ratios.

All of them? Because maybe I am mistaken, but that's not the impression I got from the story. Also, so what about the rights of the other 9 kids in the sped classroom?

Where in the article did you read that? These seclusion rooms are located in special ed schools or in the self contained classrooms. They aren’t part of the mainstream school experience.

[Anonymous]

A recurring issue with abuse of these rooms is they are overused for children who are nonverbal or barely verbal, so their parents have no idea their child is being abused at school.

[Anonymous]

“So the article is missing the other part - if this doesn't work, what does? Where is a system or protocol that keeps everyone safe, de-escalates the situation, allows teachers and students to keep teaching and learning and is not detrimental to kids?

What is the solution?”

+1 million

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“So the article is missing the other part - if this doesn't work, what does? Where is a system or protocol that keeps everyone safe, de-escalates the situation, allows teachers and students to keep teaching and learning and is not detrimental to kids?

What is the solution?”

+1 million

+1M more. I'm an IA in a SpEd classroom. I'm reasonably young and athletic, and that's probably the only reason I haven't been seriously injured on the job. Other colleagues haven't been so lucky. You'd better be able to move fast if a 220 lb kid lunges at you. Anyone who thinks this is a rare occurrence or something that can be easily deescalated is welcome to sign up to substitute teach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“So the article is missing the other part - if this doesn't work, what does? Where is a system or protocol that keeps everyone safe, de-escalates the situation, allows teachers and students to keep teaching and learning and is not detrimental to kids?

What is the solution?”

+1 million

+1M more. I'm an IA in a SpEd classroom. I'm reasonably young and athletic, and that's probably the only reason I haven't been seriously injured on the job. Other colleagues haven't been so lucky. You'd better be able to move fast if a 220 lb kid lunges at you. Anyone who thinks this is a rare occurrence or something that can be easily deescalated is welcome to sign up to substitute teach.

So how do you get that 220 pound “kid” into the seclusion room? How is that safer for ANYONE than evacuating the other children in the room?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“So the article is missing the other part - if this doesn't work, what does? Where is a system or protocol that keeps everyone safe, de-escalates the situation, allows teachers and students to keep teaching and learning and is not detrimental to kids?

What is the solution?”

+1 million

Did you read the article? The entire last section talks about changing school cultures and schools that made efforts to end the practice. Did you read this thread before posting? Several posters have described how situations can/should be handled to avoid use of locked rooms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How many general education schools have quiet rooms? My children have been in multiple schools in MCPS and I was only aware of one elementary school with seclusion rooms and they were located inside the special education self contained classes.

I am trying to picture how a general education student who is out of control is transported to a seclusion room located somewhere in the school. I don't think it would/could happen. I have taken restraint training and you are rarely transporting a child very far. If you did, you would risk injury for all involved. So I have to assume, that the vast majority of children that are being placed in seclusion rooms are already in self contained classrooms. If this is the case, then there really should be very few instances when things have gotten to such a dangerous place that transporting a flailing child into a room is safer and less disruptive than any alternative.

Schools are not prisons or hospitals and should not be acting as such. If the only solution that the school has is to lock a kid up, then the child needs to be placed in a hospital. Seclusion has no place in schools or education.

THIS. It doesn't happen in gen ed. 99.9% occur in self-contained.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t they need to have parents permission to do this? On our registration forms (public school) there is some sort of paragraph about this. I always check “no” (as in- no you are not allowed to put my kid in that room). My kids do not have any special needs and it has never come up, anyway. I have also never heard of them putting a kid in there (not that I necessarily would). I’m not even sure our school has such a room at all? Have had three kids at the school and know the layout etc very well and have volunteered a lot over the years.

NO. They do not need parents permission to do this. Parents have even sent signed letters saying that they do not want their child to be subject to seclusion/restraint and it is ignored.
Also seclusion and restraint aren't just applied to kids in special educaton. The school can do this to any kid that they think is having a behavior they don't like.

Are you seriously trying to say this doesn't exist because you haven't seen it? Do you even know anything about the self contained classes at your children's schools?

I volunteered at my kids schools and never saw the rooms or the self contained classrooms, but they were there. One hs in Loudoun kept one child completely secluded in a basement room for the years that child attended the school. The child did very well at their middle school but the principal at the high school wanted nothing to do with any kid with an iep. The windows in the room they kept the child were covered. The child was never allowed to interact with other kids and they assigned thug like male teachers who were inadequately trained to work with the student. It was like a prison and none of those teachers treated the student with even the slightest bit of respect. They treated this kid like an animal and that caused behaviors in the child. We had case managers at that school who didn't even know basic info about disabilities and assumed all kids with ieps were behavior problems and not to be trusted.

FWIW (I am the pp above who asked about parent permission). I looked this up on our district website and it is made very clear “seclusion and restraint” are only allowed with prior written parental permission. Hence the paragraph on the registration forms which I put “no”. So this does not happen in our school unless the parents have ok’d it. I live in Arizona though.

I bet they use seclusion and restraint whenever they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A recurring issue with abuse of these rooms is they are overused for children who are nonverbal or barely verbal, so their parents have no idea their child is being abused at school.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many general education schools have quiet rooms? My children have been in multiple schools in MCPS and I was only aware of one elementary school with seclusion rooms and they were located inside the special education self contained classes.

I am trying to picture how a general education student who is out of control is transported to a seclusion room located somewhere in the school. I don't think it would/could happen. I have taken restraint training and you are rarely transporting a child very far. If you did, you would risk injury for all involved. So I have to assume, that the vast majority of children that are being placed in seclusion rooms are already in self contained classrooms. If this is the case, then there really should be very few instances when things have gotten to such a dangerous place that transporting a flailing child into a room is safer and less disruptive than any alternative.

Schools are not prisons or hospitals and should not be acting as such. If the only solution that the school has is to lock a kid up, then the child needs to be placed in a hospital. Seclusion has no place in schools or education.

What is a general education school? Public schools educate children with disabilities as well as neurotypical children. A "general education school" as you call it is likely to have students with all types of disabilities. It isn't like all the kids who are autistic or non verbal are sent away to schools just for them and hidden from sight. Every school that my kids attended had seclusion rooms. They are closets, an empty office, all kinds of bizarre rooms and they aren't tucked away in a special education classroom. Kids get dragged to them or pushed into them by staff using mats and pads. Lots of time the kids go in to them willingly because that's what they think school is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t they need to have parents permission to do this? On our registration forms (public school) there is some sort of paragraph about this. I always check “no” (as in- no you are not allowed to put my kid in that room). My kids do not have any special needs and it has never come up, anyway. I have also never heard of them putting a kid in there (not that I necessarily would). I’m not even sure our school has such a room at all? Have had three kids at the school and know the layout etc very well and have volunteered a lot over the years.

They don't need permission. At our school, they take aways lunch and recess and hold the kids hostage in the front office for any minor behavioral problem (even good kids who rarely act up/make mistakes) and don't notify the parents. The they don't suspend in elementary school is a lie.

Taking lunch away is illegal. Like call the cops wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“So the article is missing the other part - if this doesn't work, what does? Where is a system or protocol that keeps everyone safe, de-escalates the situation, allows teachers and students to keep teaching and learning and is not detrimental to kids?

What is the solution?”

+1 million

Require parents to attend school with the child and handle restraining or removing the child as needed.

[Anonymous]

If you remove the other children, aren't you creating a defacto seclusion room?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“So the article is missing the other part - if this doesn't work, what does? Where is a system or protocol that keeps everyone safe, de-escalates the situation, allows teachers and students to keep teaching and learning and is not detrimental to kids?

What is the solution?”

+1 million

Require parents to attend school with the child and handle restraining or removing the child as needed.

You expect parents to sit in the school office all day in case their child melts down and they are needed to assist in calming the child?