WSJ article on more students especially the affluent get extra time on SAT

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know this sounds crazy, but I don't see how extra time helps. I was smart and affluent and always finished early. I'm a fast reader and extra time wouldn't have helped me.

You would know if you needed it. We just went through our 4th round of private evaluations for my DS. This time we paid 3K out of pocket. Insurance covered 1K. Was it good for him to miss 2 1/2 days of school for the eval? No. But the psychologist confirmed once again that he has ultra slow processing and poor attention. He uses every second of his extended time on these tests and at school. DS also has an IEP and receives special education and College Board receives this documentation.

The SAT/ACT are tests of aptitude, AP exams content knowledge and writing ability, etc. None of them are speed tests per se, and I believe they should be untimed for all students.

[Anonymous]

I do not get how people say it is easy roger. We tried many times and were refused even with private evaluations. The supports we got were a joke. I think is partly to game the system but also parents move to the better schools so they do not have to pay for costly special needs schools. Bethesda elementary is well know for being good so more families flock there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know this sounds crazy, but I don't see how extra time helps. I was smart and affluent and always finished early. I'm a fast reader and extra time wouldn't have helped me.

It does not help. This is very well documented. People want to believe it would help so they can blame kids with LD's for their kids low scores.

It isn't well documented. Stop making stuff up

give your kid the test timed, then untimed... compare the score.. your child is not going to magically become a genius with a few extra minutes.

I tried it. The scores were indeed much higher untimed.

[Anonymous]

While we're at it, should we get rid of other accommodations for kids with disabilities? How about we get rid of readers/scribe/braille for kids who are blind or alternative methods to record answers for kids with physical disabilities? If you think (as I do) that that's unfair, why is getting rid of necessary accommodations for kids with invisible disabilities any different?

Generally speaking, the college boards will approve accommodations that the school has already granted and that the student regularly uses. My child misses out on a lot because of (needed) extra time on tests. Is your child willing to do that?

Having a cut off for new, suddenly discovered disabilities junior year would go a long way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College Board approves 94% of requests??? So there is no real investigation? Who ever said it was difficult to get extra time accommodation is full of hog wash. A 94% approval rate is not an indication that it is difficult to get approval.

College board requires proof of diagnosis for accomodations. Once you have a qualified diagnosis, who is the College Board to say that the kid's diagnosis isn't valid? Getting an evaluation to get a diagnosis is an $$$ multiday process. All of you people implying that parents and kids are faking should count your lucky stars that your kid doesn't have a learning disability or other learning challenges.

So you are saying every person getting extra time truly has a learning disability that requires another hour of time to complete the test?

You have no evidence to doubt that they have a "true learning disability". A qualified medical professional has made the diagnosis according to the criteria of their profession and recommended accommodations as appropriate. In most cases the student has accommodations documented at their school in the form of a 504 or IEP, evidence that the school finds the disability compelling. But go ahead believing that all these kids are "fakers" since that's your worldview.

Many of our kids struggled since birth and by age 2 are in many hours of week therapies. Those who deny the need do not have kids with struggles or struggles themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD has multiple medical and learning disabilities including very slow processing speed, receptive and expressive language disorders and moderate hearing loss. She also has a high IQ and worked extremely hard in school to get a high GPA in honors an AP classes, but always had a 504 for extra time, because that was the single thing that leveled the playing field for her. I think everyone should Have extra time, but please don't assume that students who get the accommodation don't need/deserve it. If you observed how hard my DD works to keep pace, you would have a different view, I think. She used her extra time accommodations on ACT and SAT. Her good scores were consistent with her abilities and the school she chose has been a really good match, but she still has to work very hard, take a slightly smaller class load in order to keep up and manage her medical conditions. She receives accommodations at her university and is aiming for a profession that will be a good fit for her strengths. Accommodations for disabilities were made for students like my DD. I know that there have been abuses, but the remedy is not to question their use when fully warranted.

i mean kudos to your daughter for working hard, but how is this even possible? what does it mean to have a high IQ if your processing speed is very low?

you don't understand that going fast does not mean you are smart?

http://everyday-learning.org/fast-but-slow-processing-speed-and-the-gifted-child/

it was a rhetorical question. every common sense of intelligence requires that a person thinks quickly. it's to all there is, but it's an important part. this is just another example of concepts being twister beyond recognition so that everybody feels smart or whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While we're at it, should we get rid of other accommodations for kids with disabilities? How about we get rid of readers/scribe/braille for kids who are blind or alternative methods to record answers for kids with physical disabilities? If you think (as I do) that that's unfair, why is getting rid of necessary accommodations for kids with invisible disabilities any different?

Generally speaking, the college boards will approve accommodations that the school has already granted and that the student regularly uses. My child misses out on a lot because of (needed) extra time on tests. Is your child willing to do that?

Having a cut off for new, suddenly discovered disabilities junior year would go a long way.

alternatively, why not have blind people perform surgery? you go first!

[Anonymous]

Does anyone here deny it’s all a scam?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD has multiple medical and learning disabilities including very slow processing speed, receptive and expressive language disorders and moderate hearing loss. She also has a high IQ and worked extremely hard in school to get a high GPA in honors an AP classes, but always had a 504 for extra time, because that was the single thing that leveled the playing field for her. I think everyone should Have extra time, but please don't assume that students who get the accommodation don't need/deserve it. If you observed how hard my DD works to keep pace, you would have a different view, I think. She used her extra time accommodations on ACT and SAT. Her good scores were consistent with her abilities and the school she chose has been a really good match, but she still has to work very hard, take a slightly smaller class load in order to keep up and manage her medical conditions. She receives accommodations at her university and is aiming for a profession that will be a good fit for her strengths. Accommodations for disabilities were made for students like my DD. I know that there have been abuses, but the remedy is not to question their use when fully warranted.

i mean kudos to your daughter for working hard, but how is this even possible? what does it mean to have a high IQ if your processing speed is very low?

you don't understand that going fast does not mean you are smart?

http://everyday-learning.org/fast-but-slow-processing-speed-and-the-gifted-child/

it was a rhetorical question. every common sense of intelligence requires that a person thinks quickly. it's to all there is, but it's an important part. this is just another example of concepts being twister beyond recognition so that everybody feels smart or whatever.

Speed is not a significantly g-loaded measure.

Slow processing speed seems fairly common in the (intellectually) gifted crowd, so common that there's a shorthand for twice-exceptional, 2e.

Imagine if the ACT or SAT was at a 5th grade level. Should the 11th graders who complete it fastest and most accurate be deemed the most able?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While we're at it, should we get rid of other accommodations for kids with disabilities? How about we get rid of readers/scribe/braille for kids who are blind or alternative methods to record answers for kids with physical disabilities? If you think (as I do) that that's unfair, why is getting rid of necessary accommodations for kids with invisible disabilities any different?

Generally speaking, the college boards will approve accommodations that the school has already granted and that the student regularly uses. My child misses out on a lot because of (needed) extra time on tests. Is your child willing to do that?

Having a cut off for new, suddenly discovered disabilities junior year would go a long way.

alternatively, why not have blind people perform surgery? you go first!

ACT SAT are not gate-keepers for performing surgery. They are merely tools for college admission. Being able to solve easier questions in 40 seconds but can't solve the harder questions in any amount of time does not make a person smarter than someone who can solve the easier questions in 55 seconds and the harder questions in 80 seconds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD has multiple medical and learning disabilities including very slow processing speed, receptive and expressive language disorders and moderate hearing loss. She also has a high IQ and worked extremely hard in school to get a high GPA in honors an AP classes, but always had a 504 for extra time, because that was the single thing that leveled the playing field for her. I think everyone should Have extra time, but please don't assume that students who get the accommodation don't need/deserve it. If you observed how hard my DD works to keep pace, you would have a different view, I think. She used her extra time accommodations on ACT and SAT. Her good scores were consistent with her abilities and the school she chose has been a really good match, but she still has to work very hard, take a slightly smaller class load in order to keep up and manage her medical conditions. She receives accommodations at her university and is aiming for a profession that will be a good fit for her strengths. Accommodations for disabilities were made for students like my DD. I know that there have been abuses, but the remedy is not to question their use when fully warranted.

i mean kudos to your daughter for working hard, but how is this even possible? what does it mean to have a high IQ if your processing speed is very low?

you don't understand that going fast does not mean you are smart?

http://everyday-learning.org/fast-but-slow-processing-speed-and-the-gifted-child/

it was a rhetorical question. every common sense of intelligence requires that a person thinks quickly. it's to all there is, but it's an important part. this is just another example of concepts being twister beyond recognition so that everybody feels smart or whatever.

Speed is not a significantly g-loaded measure.

Slow processing speed seems fairly common in the (intellectually) gifted crowd, so common that there's a shorthand for twice-exceptional, 2e.

Imagine if the ACT or SAT was at a 5th grade level. Should the 11th graders who complete it fastest and most accurate be deemed the most able?

the correlation between processing speed and IQ is high, over .80.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College Board approves 94% of requests??? So there is no real investigation? Who ever said it was difficult to get extra time accommodation is full of hog wash. A 94% approval rate is not an indication that it is difficult to get approval.

College board requires proof of diagnosis for accomodations. Once you have a qualified diagnosis, who is the College Board to say that the kid's diagnosis isn't valid? Getting an evaluation to get a diagnosis is an $$$ multiday process. All of you people implying that parents and kids are faking should count your lucky stars that your kid doesn't have a learning disability or other learning challenges.

So you are saying every person getting extra time truly has a learning disability that requires another hour of time to complete the test?

You have no evidence to doubt that they have a "true learning disability". A qualified medical professional has made the diagnosis according to the criteria of their profession and recommended accommodations as appropriate. In most cases the student has accommodations documented at their school in the form of a 504 or IEP, evidence that the school finds the disability compelling. But go ahead believing that all these kids are "fakers" since that's your worldview.

Many of our kids struggled since birth and by age 2 are in many hours of week therapies. Those who deny the need do not have kids with struggles or struggles themselves.

+1 They like to feel victimized by kids struggling with medical diagnoses. Really, the only way these people are underprivileged is by having a complete lack of empathy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College Board approves 94% of requests??? So there is no real investigation? Who ever said it was difficult to get extra time accommodation is full of hog wash. A 94% approval rate is not an indication that it is difficult to get approval.

College board requires proof of diagnosis for accomodations. Once you have a qualified diagnosis, who is the College Board to say that the kid's diagnosis isn't valid? Getting an evaluation to get a diagnosis is an $$$ multiday process. All of you people implying that parents and kids are faking should count your lucky stars that your kid doesn't have a learning disability or other learning challenges.

So you are saying every person getting extra time truly has a learning disability that requires another hour of time to complete the test?

You have no evidence to doubt that they have a "true learning disability". A qualified medical professional has made the diagnosis according to the criteria of their profession and recommended accommodations as appropriate. In most cases the student has accommodations documented at their school in the form of a 504 or IEP, evidence that the school finds the disability compelling. But go ahead believing that all these kids are "fakers" since that's your worldview.

Many of our kids struggled since birth and by age 2 are in many hours of week therapies. Those who deny the need do not have kids with struggles or struggles themselves.

+1 They like to feel victimized by kids struggling with medical diagnoses. Really, the only way these people are underprivileged is by having a complete lack of empathy.

But no one is taking a thing away from those kids who are struggling. Giving extra time to all the test takers would not benefit the kids that do not need it, they would simply finish up and leave early but it could benefit kids who would like more time to read the answers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know this sounds crazy, but I don't see how extra time helps. I was smart and affluent and always finished early. I'm a fast reader and extra time wouldn't have helped me.

It does not help. This is very well documented. People want to believe it would help so they can blame kids with LD's for their kids low scores.

It isn't well documented. Stop making stuff up

give your kid the test timed, then untimed... compare the score.. your child is not going to magically become a genius with a few extra minutes.

I tried it. The scores were indeed much higher untimed.

+1

My daughter did too. She timed herself all the time on ACT.

28-30 with 5min less each session (it stresses to practice this way to allow you "extra" time on the real test)
32-33 with standard time each session
34-36 with no time limit

It absolutely makes a difference for the ACT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one should get extra time. It is just a scam for the wealthy to push their kids above the others.

In real life you don't get extra time.

at work, I give extra time all the time.

Where do you work? I don't know many professions where you just get extra time. I would be curious

Wait what?

When I worked in consulting, if we needed more time to finish a project we often asked for extensions and it was fine. It’s hard to imagine an industry that doesn’t grant extra time. My DH is an engineer and he took an extra year to finish his PhD. Many of his peers got even more extra time. They all have the exact same degree.

Where do you work? Fast food? Barista?